Time Bomb in Our Midst

[JoeEpcotRocks]

What insult? Seriously -- it was a simple question. Dawn said we've got a time bomb going on and I asked what the solution is.

Yeah, right.

 

[peachgirl]

I should know to read an article you post before commenting..

First, it was an editorial piece, not a factual story.

Secondly they don't clearly define the question that was asked...perhaps because it's an editorial piece and they are expressing an opinion and are using the supposed data to back up their opinion.

Young New York Muslims questioned yesterday said attacks on innocent victims are wrong.
But they said they can understand why foreign Muslims would sacrifice their lives against soldiers in conditions they consider "war."
"If it's for no reason, then it's no good. If it's in self-defense, to protect others, then it is right," said Youns Hussein, a 21-year-old store owner from Brooklyn of Yemeni descent

For you to say that 26% approve of suicide bombings is misleading at best. Who knows what they actually asked these people. Junk in, junk out.

 

[Bob Slydell]

Yeah, right.

I'll take that to mean you don't have an answer to the question.

 

[Tiffer]

"You MUST fear the brown people!!!"



Exactly what are we supposed to do about any of that, even if it were true? Dawn? John? You say "keep an eye on them"...so, we should be spying on people who we do not suspect of having committed a crime? No probable cause? No due process?

Is this really what this country has been reduced to?

How...disappointing.

Um, yes it is. Have you read the Patriot Act?

 

[JoeEpcotRocks]

"You MUST fear the brown people!!!"



Exactly what are we supposed to do about any of that, even if it were true? Dawn? John? You say "keep an eye on them"...so, we should be spying on people who we do not suspect of having committed a crime? No probable cause? No due process?

Is this really what this country has been reduced to?

How...disappointing.

If it is true, what do you suggest that won't be sad, disappointing, and "racist" to you.

 

[JoeEpcotRocks]

Um, yes it is. Have you read the Patriot Act?

Please cite the part of the Patriot Act where we can do this.

 

[KariC]

I should know to read an article you post before commenting..

First, it was an editorial piece, not a factual story.

Secondly they don't clearly define the question that was asked...perhaps because it's an editorial piece and they are expressing an opinion and are using the supposed data to back up their opinion.

For you to say that 26% approve of suicide bombings is misleading at best. Who knows what they actually asked these people. Junk in, junk out.

http://pewresearch.org/pubs/483/muslim-americans

Here's the link to the actual research.....the actual report is 108 pages long.

Happy reading, but I'm sure you'll find the quesstions that they actually asked "these people". And, generally, Pew Research is not considered JIJO.

 

[JoeEpcotRocks]

I'll take that to mean you don't have an answer to the question.

I'll take that to mean that your original response was an insult, not a question.

 

[peachgirl]

Apparently this article does not bother you then -- and you think the "McVeigh" types in Oklahoma are an equal or greater threat?

Apparently the only threats you're worried about are those that come from Muslims. I guess as long as it's homegrown, it's ok.

As long as we're into putting words into people's mouths, I thought I'd join in the fun.

 

[Tiffer]

Please cite the part of the Patriot Act where we can do this.

Oh yes, I'll pull my condensed pocket edition of the patriot act that I keep in my pocketbook.

I have read it cover to cover. In fact, I took an entire course on it in law school.

If you think it doesn't allow the governement to intrude upon your privacy, you are naive.

Transact cash in excess of $3k. It is recorded.

 

[Bob Slydell]

I'll take that to mean that your original response was an insult, not a question.

You're going to take it the way you want to regardless, Joe.

 

[meandtheguys2]

I'd say that we need to start targeting troubled kids regardless. If there is a core group that is expressing these violent ideals, then they should be targeted as children for additional services, groups etc.

We've some friends who have run their business in the U. town my husband works at. It has been in opperation for 20 years. They have had their business attacked, and their home vandalized for simply being from the Mid. East, and Muslim.

 

[Charade]

"You MUST fear the brown people!!!"



Exactly what are we supposed to do about any of that, even if it were true? Dawn? John? You say "keep an eye on them"...so, we should be spying on people who we do not suspect of having committed a crime? No probable cause? No due process?

Is this really what this country has been reduced to?

How...disappointing.

Please...

So the police are only supposed to respond *after the fact*? Many crimes have been prevented through diligent police work (tips and such). Of course we shouldn't "spy" on every person. Only the ones we suspect are up to no good. But as usual, the conversation degrades into this baloney whenever anyone brings up radical Islam.

How do *you* suggest we prevent another 9-11 (or worse)? Wait until we have to clean up the carnage before we try to figure out who did it?

 

[Bob Slydell]

http://pewresearch.org/pubs/483/muslim-americans

Here's the link to the actual research.....the actual report is 108 pages long.

Happy reading, but I'm sure you'll find the quesstions that they actually asked "these people". And, generally, Pew Research is not considered JIJO.

Thanks for the link

Interesting, I flipped through much of the report and, in general, Muslim-Americans sound like pretty happy citizens. Interesting that of all the 108 pages of the report, the article in the OP makes reference to only one figure. Even more interestingly, the 26% figure of young American Muslims is actually lower than the majority of other countries' Muslims.

 

[Tiffer]

Please...

So the police are only supposed to respond *after the fact*? Many crimes have been prevented through diligent police work (tips and such). Of course we shouldn't "spy" on every person. Only the ones we suspect are up to no good. But as usual, the conversation degrades into this baloney whenever anyone brings up radical Islam.

How do *you* suggest we prevent another 9-11 (or worse)? Wait until we have to clean up the carnage before we try to figure out who did it?

I think you have a valid point. I also think the question is, other than tips, how do we know who to "suspect". Based on what? Where do we draw the line?

I am not saying I have the answers, but I know I have questions.

 

[Fitswimmer]

We value diversity and individuality in this country and that's a good thing. However, that doesn't mean that we should turn a blind eye to ANYONE who is broadcasting threats, encouraging violence against others and especially those who teach children that it's ok to hate or worse yet KILL people who believe differently than they do.

 

[KariC]

Thanks for the link

Interesting, I flipped through much of the report and, in general, Muslim-Americans sound like pretty happy citizens. Interesting that of all the 108 pages of the report, the article in the OP makes reference to only one figure. Even more interestingly, the 26% figure of young American Muslims is actually lower than the majority of other countries' Muslims.

Different news outlets are putting different spins on it, apparently. I guess that's the age-old problem with statistics..... Like I said earlier, my concern is more that 60% of the respondents believed that 9/11 was not done by Arabs.

ps You're reading faster than me! I'm still in the first 10 pages. I doubt I'll read it all......

 

[Bob Slydell]

Like I said earlier, my concern is more that 60% of the respondents believed that 9/11 was done by Arabs.

ps You're reading faster than me! I'm still in the first 10 pages. I doubt I'll read it all......

It's concerning, yes, but thinking that doesn't make them dangerous -- just wrong.

In the spirit of full disclosure, I skipped all the demographic stuff and went right for Chapters 6 and 7.

 

[salmoneous]

I don't think you will find any significant data. The very vast majority of Americans, of all ages, were horrified and disgusted by McVeigh's actions. The "McVeigh's" do not even represent a percentage of the population. In addition, there is not one main stream religion that would even tolerate that type of thinking, let alone behavior of the Tim McVeigh's.

That's because they didn't believe in McVeigh's cause - not because they didn't believe in killing people to protect what they value..

What percentage of non-Muslim Americans would say a particular technique is unacceptable if necessary to protect what they hold dear? What percentage is willing to engage in torture, conventional bombing or even nuclear bombing if necessary?

The only thing that is remarkable about this poll is how low the numbers are. I think if you looked at a non-Muslim population, the percentage would be much higher.

Dawn, you've defended torture and nuclear bombing when you felt it necessary. Is that any more moral than someone who believes in suicide bombing "if necessary?"

 

[KariC]

It's concerning, yes, but thinking that doesn't make them dangerous -- just wrong.

In the spirit of full disclosure, I skipped all the demographic stuff and went right for Chapters 6 and 7.

I agree.....