Thoughts on a video camera?

[Bete]

You will want a camcorder capable of 1920 X 1080 high resolution for it to be true high definition.

The Canon HV20 which is the camcorder I'm discussing is true high definition. I did a search and I think if you try hard enough you should be able to get this camcorder for under $700. Don't get fooled by rebuilt or refurbished ads; make sure you buy a brand new one. Don't get a stripped down version, either. Some websites can be real tricky with their pricing and hold back on items that are included with the camcorder like a battery, etc. They will then do these as add ons to raise the price. Use reputable places to buy.

 

[DawnM]

Thanks guys. I am continuing to read this thread and may just hold off and save some more $$ before getting one.

The Canons are looking very interesting.

Dawn

 

[thomas998]

There is another way that isn't too costly. You could get the HD Mini Dv camcorder (like the HV20/30) and buy one of those VHS/DVD burner combos that they sell at Wal-Mart.
You don't have to put the video into your computer. You could do it old school style and record it directly onto DVD from the camcorder in real time. Each Mini Dv is Max 90 minutes or at HD will be 60 minutes. Also you don't need to buy high end MiniDVs, regular ones work the same in your HD camcorder. You can burn your DVDs (of course you won't be able to edit it and title it or any of those things.) However, you can still make chapters on the DVD. And basically this is just to record your kids for posterity, so I would think that this would be good enough, unless you're wanting to get into the whole editing thing. The DVD recorder combos are pretty cheap. The last one I bought was about $130 at Wal Mart. They also sell just the DVD burner by itself. Doing it this way is basically, what you see is what you get. It ain't fancy, but you'll be able to have good quality for relatively low expense and won't have to worry about buying a HD burner or a new computer. My friend does this all the time and the video looks great.

The VHS/DVD combo and DVD recorder I mentioned above are the type that plug into your TV, not the computer, fyi...

I'm not sure how to put this nicely... but your wrong. I have a high def mini-dv camcorder... and what you suggest will work but wont result in high def results.... If you have a HD camcorder the only way to view the results in high def is to put it directly into a high def tv or put it into your computer... while you can send a signal out of the HD camcorder directly into a VCR/DVD player the camcorder would be sending standard definition video. Unless you get something super expensive like a blu-ray recorder you simply can't get high def into a normal DVD recorder... high def is only transmitted from the camcorder via an HDMI or component cable... a standard vcr/dvd would only have a composit cable and that can only handle standard def signals.

And yes a mini-dv tape will work in the HD camcorders... but you only want to use them one time only, if you record over previous recording your chance of a dropped signal jumps... I know I made that mistake and paid the price for it with dropped signals of Captain Jack's pirate tutorial.

 

[DisneySuiteFreak]

I'm not sure how to put this nicely... but your wrong. I have a high def mini-dv camcorder... and what you suggest will work but wont result in high def results.... If you have a HD camcorder the only way to view the results in high def is to put it directly into a high def tv or put it into your computer... while you can send a signal out of the HD camcorder directly into a VCR/DVD player the camcorder would be sending standard definition video. Unless you get something super expensive like a blu-ray recorder you simply can't get high def into a normal DVD recorder... high def is only transmitted from the camcorder via an HDMI or component cable... a standard vcr/dvd would only have a composit cable and that can only handle standard def signals.

And yes a mini-dvd tape will work in the HD camcorders... but you only want to use them one time only, if you record over previous recording your chance of a dropped signal jumps...

Well that was real nice! Hey, all I know is the lady is on a budget. The HD camcorders will record in HD or SD, and the SD video I've seen that was recorded on a HD camcorder is a lot nicer than cheapie camcorders out there that record in SD. So for around $800 she could have a HD camcorder that will render nice SD video in a standard DVD recorder (that she can buy from Wal Mart) w/out having to freak out over learning how to render the HD video or buy a whole new computer and tv. And it works. All she wants is to be able to record her kids. Later when she can afford it, she can go out and buy a new computer, blue ray burner, tv and all the associated software to be able to edit in HD if she so desires. So she won't have to go out and upgrade her camcorder all over again; she'll get 2 for the price of one. One good enough for now, and great for later on when she can afford the upgrades. My friend reuses her Mini Dvs (I'm pretty sure that's what you were referring to when you wrote mini dvds???) and yes they can be subject to more drop out period, however in SD mode, I've never had a dropout yet on my camcorder when I've reused mini-dvs. (knock on wood)
All I was doing is offering another option and perspective, how can that be 'wrong'? Have a magical day!

 

[DawnM]

Hey guys, I will re-iterate.....we are on a budget NOW, but I have decided that if it is worth it, I will hold off and save a bit more. In fact, I am seriously considering getting a nice still shot camera first (now) and then saving until Christmas or so for the video camera.

So, if it is worth the high def, I will see what I can do. The only real problem I see is the cost not of the camera itself but the new high def burner I will need, the upgrade in computer I may need.....it seems to be a ripple effect! We aren't poor, but we do have some priorities, like our need for a new roof, we are finishing off the basement, well, you get the picture! And we like to only use cash for all purchases other than our house. Whew, that is more than you needed to know.

Dawn

 

[DawnM]

Well, you are right. We don't need much more than recording vacations and kids and such. Your idea is a good one....spend the money on a good camcorder and get the rest later.

Thank you for your input!

Dawn

Well that was real nice! Hey, all I know is the lady is on a budget. The HD camcorders will record in HD or SD, and the SD video I've seen that was recorded on a HD camcorder is a lot nicer than cheapie camcorders out there that record in SD. So for around $800 she could have a HD camcorder that will render nice SD video in a standard DVD recorder (that she can buy from Wal Mart) w/out having to freak out over learning how to render the HD video or buy a whole new computer and tv. And it works. All she wants is to be able to record her kids. Later when she can afford it, she can go out and buy a new computer, blue ray burner, tv and all the associated software to be able to edit in HD if she so desires. So she won't have to go out and upgrade her camcorder all over again; she'll get 2 for the price of one. One good enough for now, and great for later on when she can afford the upgrades. My friend reuses her Mini Dvs (I'm pretty sure that's what you were referring to when you wrote mini dvds???) and yes they can be subject to more drop out period, however in SD mode, I've never had a dropout yet on my camcorder when I've reused mini-dvs. (knock on wood)
All I was doing is offering another option and perspective, how can that be 'wrong'? Have a magical day!

 

[DisneySuiteFreak]

Well, you are right. We don't need much more than recording vacations and kids and such. Your idea is a good one....spend the money on a good camcorder and get the rest later.

Thank you for your input!

Dawn

You're very welcome! Good luck on whatever you decide...

 

[thomas998]

Well that was real nice! Hey, all I know is the lady is on a budget. The HD camcorders will record in HD or SD, and the SD video I've seen that was recorded on a HD camcorder is a lot nicer than cheapie camcorders out there that record in SD. So for around $800 she could have a HD camcorder that will render nice SD video in a standard DVD recorder (that she can buy from Wal Mart) w/out having to freak out over learning how to render the HD video or buy a whole new computer and tv. And it works. All she wants is to be able to record her kids. Later when she can afford it, she can go out and buy a new computer, blue ray burner, tv and all the associated software to be able to edit in HD if she so desires. So she won't have to go out and upgrade her camcorder all over again; she'll get 2 for the price of one. One good enough for now, and great for later on when she can afford the upgrades. My friend reuses her Mini Dvs (I'm pretty sure that's what you were referring to when you wrote mini dvds???) and yes they can be subject to more drop out period, however in SD mode, I've never had a dropout yet on my camcorder when I've reused mini-dvs. (knock on wood)
All I was doing is offering another option and perspective, how can that be 'wrong'? Have a magical day!

I think if you don't have the ability to use the HD then there is no reason to pay for it... Yes she could buy the HD camcorder now and simply use it as a SD camcorder until she upgrades her TV or computer later... But why would you do that? You can buy a standard def camcorder for under $300... that's $500 less than your $800 HD camcorder that you couldn't make full use of... The reality of electronics is the price will continue to drop at an astounding rate. By the time they have upgraded their TV and computer, the price of that $800 HD camcorder may be $400 and the quality of them will have only gotten better.... Buying a HD camcorder at this time is a guarantee that your camcorder will be significantly outdated with a years time.

 

[drcandon]

Maybe I have a short attention span this morning, I am having trouble following all the stuff..so if I repeat again, just ignore me...

Okay first lets get the HD/HDD acronym - HD is high def..yea everyone knew that, HDD means the camcorder has a hard drive in it...

I would strongly recommend that any camcorder purchase be "future proofed" these things aren't cheap no matter where you live. Buying a SD or standard definition camcorder is buying yesterdays technology..if you are content with that then okay...but be aware that as soon as you display the footage on your brand new 50" LCD or PLasma monitor - the footage will have all sorts of visible artifacts in it..and even if you work in the digital realm, the more you post process, the sooner that degrades...

IF this had been a few months ago, I would have said hold off a bit on any purchase and just rent one...if you can..but with almost all camcorder manufacturers switching to AVCHD format (mpeg4) ( except for some JVC) - once again the thousand pound gorilla Sony et al has won.

And with the ability to dump HD footage down to standard DVD but in HD format and playable on all Version 2.0 Bluray players including the PS3 - another victory for the gorilla.

And AVCHD is not that bad on older computers..but that is relative ALL video conversion, editing and burning are memory hog/disk intensive.

Also with HD camcorders you still have the ability to record in SD (mpeg2) mode - which is burnable directly to DVD - using all the standard DVD tools out these days.

And for future proofing - even though bluray writeable disks are still hideously overpriced - the burners are dropping - you can now get an LG 2x bluray burner ( in Canada) fo runder $400.00..I know that sounds expensive but consider the first DVD burner I bought around 4 years ago was the same price and DVD media was almost as expensive. Soon standalone home Bluray burners will be out.

Still, I am no economist, but because of the faltering world economies I don't see bluray making the significant inroads and progress like the DVD vrs VCR conflict less then 3 years ago.

As far as economical...the newer solid state AVCHD camcorders are dropping in price rapidy, the high capacity memory cards are still a bit expensive.

And instead of the higher capacity HDD HD camcorders get the 40 or 60 G ones...yes, you will have to dump footage down sooner, but will save you a couple hundred dollars.

It would be unforunate to get a camcorder now and then buy another in a year when bluray burners etc finally come down to affordable prices.

And finally don't get hung up on brand names these days..AVCHD and its basic guts are pretty well made by the same factories..sooooo, instead concentrate ont he features you want and need.

Just some thoughts for your consideration...

 

[DisneySuiteFreak]

I think if you don't have the ability to use the HD then there is no reason to pay for it... Yes she could buy the HD camcorder now and simply use it as a SD camcorder until she upgrades her TV or computer later... But why would you do that? You can buy a standard def camcorder for under $300... that's $500 less than your $800 HD camcorder that you couldn't make full use of... The reality of electronics is the price will continue to drop at an astounding rate. By the time they have upgraded their TV and computer, the price of that $800 HD camcorder may be $400 and the quality of them will have only gotten better.... Buying a HD camcorder at this time is a guarantee that your camcorder will be significantly outdated with a years time.

The $800 price I mentioned included the cost of the stand alone dvd recorder. When I first started looking into it, you could get the HV30 for around $649. It's gaining in popularity and now the price is rising again. This is about how much I spent on my 3ccd SD camcorder last year. I wish I had waited to get the HV20 or 30 because I will end up upgrading sooner or later (Most likely sooner) and then be stuck with a camcorder that's not worth much and for the same price I could've had the newer HV30.

For the OP, There is a whole thread on HV20.com on where to get the best price on the cameras that is updated daily and includes only legit retailers. Canon also has a newer solid state HD camcorder that records to SD cards and one that has a hard drive and SD card -- they are even cheaper. It uses the AVCHD format. Most of the info I've read up on indicated that it is rendering the AVCHD that takes forever and eats up huge blocks of memory. (Yes rendering any video on the computer eats up a lot of memory, but apparently, the AVCHD is over the top on eating up memory.) I'm not an expert, I'm still trying to educate myself before I make my next purchase. But this issue is what makes me shy away from any AVCHD camcorder. To each his own...
You will hear a lot of people tell you that Mini dv is dead. That is simply not true. Many pros still use the format. It's cheap, reliable, and it's not going anywhere any time soon. They still sell professional cameras out there for $3k-5k that use mini dv. A friend of mine bought a HDD camcorder. He dropped it and it was toast. Everything in it was wiped out. Hard drives are known to lose info and crash (Even without dropping it), and the HDD camcorders are no different.
This thread is starting to remind me of some of the Nikon vs. Canon threads. It's all a matter of opinion. Take a look around on the 'net and figure out what will work for you. There really is no right or wrong. (And for the record even though I am telling you all about Canon camcorders, I am a Nikon user when it comes to DSLRs, so I really have no preference, just looking for the best bang & quality for my buck.) Good luck!

 

[webshark3]

We have a Flip and it is very good for what it is and for what it costs. Image quality is good and it handles low light surprisingly well.
It does not have a zoom lens (or much of any controls for that matter) so it can not be considered a serious video camera but we carry it and get videos, which is more than we do with our more serious video camera!

The flip is neat, but I'm not a fan of it's video. This one looks more interesting. I expect it to be on par with my Aiptek A-HD; nice, but not "wowing".

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/conten...-of-the-Flip-Mino---New-DXG-567V-HD-35312.htm

 

[webshark3]

I would check out a video sample or read all the reviews before buying a "Hi Def" camcorder. I saw a "High Definition" camcorder at walmart for $69, it was about the size of a deck of cards and the lens opening seemed very small. Even though marketed as "Hi Def" they are not all the same quality!

My Aiptek A-HD is that "fake" HD. If it did 60fps, I'd be very impressed (the newer model does 1080p/30fps and 720p at 60fps). No zoom and cheap plastic, but I get family memories with it that I'd never get with my DV camcorder for 1 simple reason; I almost always have it on me since it's so small.

Of course the Canon will blow it away (I really want one!), but I wouldn't carry the Canon everywhere. Another benefit of cheap HD; you'll get memories you'd probably never attempt with a expensive camcorder.

http://www.vimeo.com/673175

 

[drcandon]

Okay , lets go at AVCHD again..in very easy terms, yes this is a highly compressed mpeg4 format, and yes it does need more processing power than your average SD mpeg 2 recording...but these days everything is relative..for example...

If we talk in present vrs past...pinnacle, ulead or Adobe - whatever editing suite you used with a P2 processor 2 g of memory (that was expensive a few years ago) and IDE disks and at the time -mpeg 2 SD...the video took ages and ages to do and you basically walked away from your computer for a while..

These days we have core 2 or quad core..DD2 or DD3..fast sata drives..2G is just beginning on the memory scale, and much better video codecs and editing suites, but we have thrown mpeg4 at the procs..so again we are back at import the video edit the video and walk away..the more things change the more they stay the same..

And AVCHD is the standard more and more camcorders are settling on..I wish it was somthing like mkv instead, but the 800 lb gorilla has spoken..at least for the solid state and HDD camcorders..

Will tape go away soon and be a dead format - maybe - but as more and more people want the instant gratification of just randomly accessing the video they just recorded instead of waiting for 15 minutes for tiny tape motors to fast forward and rewind video - well the writing is on the wall...

Will AVCHD be supplanted by something esle - sure - of course just as avi, ,mpeg 2 etc etc is going by by, but rght now that is what we have to work with..

Should I buy a AVCHD or HD camcoder of some kind right now - IMHO yes, provided you can still record in SD mode ( I like hanging onto the past a bit).

Can I record AVCHD to standard DVD's you bet , in fact for a while to sell the newer HD camcorders Panasonic, Sony and Canon were offering and external DVD writer to go with them for free...

Will these DVD's be watchable on a regular DVD player - NO...

Will these DVD's be viewable on a bluray player - yes and no - if they meet at least profile 2 and in some cases profile 1.2...if they are still profile 1.0 probably not...

And right now in some online stores in the US, various AVCHD camcorders are under $800.00

 

[DawnM]

Thank you! I am going to copy and paste this to reread when I am ready to buy.

Dawn

Okay , lets go at AVCHD again..in very easy terms, yes this is a highly compressed mpeg4 format, and yes it does need more processing power than your average SD mpeg 2 recording...but these days everything is relative..for example...

If we talk in present vrs past...pinnacle, ulead or Adobe - whatever editing suite you used with a P2 processor 2 g of memory (that was expensive a few years ago) and IDE disks and at the time -mpeg 2 SD...the video took ages and ages to do and you basically walked away from your computer for a while..

These days we have core 2 or quad core..DD2 or DD3..fast sata drives..2G is just beginning on the memory scale, and much better video codecs and editing suites, but we have thrown mpeg4 at the procs..so again we are back at import the video edit the video and walk away..the more things change the more they stay the same..

And AVCHD is the standard more and more camcorders are settling on..I wish it was somthing like mkv instead, but the 800 lb gorilla has spoken..at least for the solid state and HDD camcorders..

Will tape go away soon and be a dead format - maybe - but as more and more people want the instant gratification of just randomly accessing the video they just recorded instead of waiting for 15 minutes for tiny tape motors to fast forward and rewind video - well the writing is on the wall...

Will AVCHD be supplanted by something esle - sure - of course just as avi, ,mpeg 2 etc etc is going by by, but rght now that is what we have to work with..

Should I buy a AVCHD or HD camcoder of some kind right now - IMHO yes, provided you can still record in SD mode ( I like hanging onto the past a bit).

Can I record AVCHD to standard DVD's you bet , in fact for a while to sell the newer HD camcorders Panasonic, Sony and Canon were offering and external DVD writer to go with them for free...

Will these DVD's be watchable on a regular DVD player - NO...

Will these DVD's be viewable on a bluray player - yes and no - if they meet at least profile 2 and in some cases profile 1.2...if they are still profile 1.0 probably not...

And right now in some online stores in the US, various AVCHD camcorders are under $800.00

 

[webshark3]

Will tape go away soon and be a dead format - maybe - but as more and more people want the instant gratification of just randomly accessing the video they just recorded instead of waiting for 15 minutes for tiny tape motors to fast forward and rewind video - well the writing is on the wall...

People shouldn't worry about the "death of tape". There will be plenty of DV tape available long after the life of the DV products. (As we've already seen from past dead formats). And the Professional Industry as a whole won't be moving away from tape (including mini-dv) in the foreseeable 10-year future.

 

[DisneySuiteFreak]

People shouldn't worry about the "death of tape". There will be plenty of DV tape available long after the life of the DV products. (As we've already seen from past dead formats). And the Professional Industry as a whole won't be moving away from tape (including mini-dv) in the foreseeable 10-year future.

 

[vbarnett06]

I can say that I have a Canon HV30 and I bought a monopod. It is the best camcorder I have ever used and simply the best pure footage. Very light and when you learn a few tips and tricks with the camcorder, it is simply a pleasure to use.

When you run out of tape, you put another one in.
With a hard drive based camcorder when its full, its full for the most part.

Hope that helps fuel the fire a bit more, but I studied up on camcorders for 6 months before I bought mine and have no complaints.

Josh

 

[Lil Tink's Nana]

My adult daughter and I each purchased a JVC HD camcorder for our upcoming trip to Disneyworld. It fits into the palm of our hand, you can flip the monitor to take pictures too, does not need looking through a tiny view-finder to see what you are shooting, has a slot for a memory card, and the hard drive holds enough remeory to shoot a full two-hour DVD. The camcorder came with a DVD/burner and they connect with just one cord. The camcorders can be used with a computer but we don't wish to do that. My daughter has shot some long shots of wild animals that are really cool, like a squirrel and a woodchuck. The picture quality is good. So, all of us, her DH included are looking forward to using it on our vacation.
You can see these camcorders demonstrated on HSN and QVC often. My daughter did a lot of looking and research before her purchase. I saw her camcorder and order one immediately, after asking her if she would mind me being a copy-cat.

The drawbacks are: all camcorders usually come with a one-hour battery. With this JVC the battery is recharged by putting it on the camera and plugging the camera into a DC outlet. Second drawback is that these samll cameras are so new it is hard to find a camera case for them. I store my in my Disney camera bag which I purchased in the Kodak Camera Shop on Main Street on my 2004 vist.

Hope this helps you with your decision.

 

[Ragnrok23]

My adult daughter and I each purchased a JVC HD camcorder for our upcoming trip to Disneyworld. It fits into the palm of our hand, you can flip the monitor to take pictures too, does not need looking through a tiny view-finder to see what you are shooting, has a slot for a memory card, and the hard drive holds enough remeory to shoot a full two-hour DVD. The camcorder came with a DVD/burner and they connect with just one cord. The camcorders can be used with a computer but we don't wish to do that. My daughter has shot some long shots of wild animals that are really cool, like a squirrel and a woodchuck. The picture quality is good. So, all of us, her DH included are looking forward to using it on our vacation.
You can see these camcorders demonstrated on HSN and QVC often. My daughter did a lot of looking and research before her purchase. I saw her camcorder and order one immediately, after asking her if she would mind me being a copy-cat.

The drawbacks are: all camcorders usually come with a one-hour battery. With this JVC the battery is recharged by putting it on the camera and plugging the camera into a DC outlet. Second drawback is that these samll cameras are so new it is hard to find a camera case for them. I store my in my Disney camera bag which I purchased in the Kodak Camera Shop on Main Street on my 2004 vist.

Hope this helps you with your decision.

which one did you get? I just bought the GZ-HD3U and am thinking of returning it because it is horrible indoors

 

[FSUDisneyGirl]

So, cheap would be good, but I definitely want pretty good quality...and, most importantly, good sound. I am a music teacher and I would like to be able to record rehearsals, performances, etc. and ESPECIALLY put together video footage and pics to play before performances and on morning announcements at school. Any ideas???