Thoughts on a video camera?

[DawnM]

Can you recommend a small video camera? We are looking into getting one soon but have no clue.

Thanks,

Dawn

 

[rdsx28]

I just saw one advertised in Family Fun magazine. I do not have it myself but it looked pretty cool. It is called the flip video ultra camcorder by pure digital technologies. Loks small and handy it is 150.00 but seems great. haven't doena ny research yet. Good Luck!

 

[aka-mad4themouse]

I'm going to move this over to the Photography Board. I think that you'll get more answers there from people with a wealth of experience with digital video cameras.

 

[boBQuincy]

We have a Flip and it is very good for what it is and for what it costs. Image quality is good and it handles low light surprisingly well.
It does not have a zoom lens (or much of any controls for that matter) so it can not be considered a serious video camera but we carry it and get videos, which is more than we do with our more serious video camera!

 

[Groucho]

I don't follow camcorders very closely, but the way I understand it, the basic technologies are...

MiniDV (cheap, uses tape, highest image quality, best for editing, but more work so not as convenient)
Hard drive (lower image quality, hard drive will fail eventually, not as easy to edit)
MiniDVD (uses blank miniDVDs, lower image quality, hardest to edit)

Once you pick the basic technology, you can then start to narrow down your choices.

 

[Michele]

I don't follow camcorders very closely, but the way I understand it, the basic technologies are...

MiniDV (cheap, uses tape, highest image quality, best for editing, but more work so not as convenient)
Hard drive (lower image quality, hard drive will fail eventually, not as easy to edit)
MiniDVD (uses blank miniDVDs, lower image quality, hardest to edit)

Once you pick the basic technology, you can then start to narrow down your choices.

Thanks so much for the basics....that is just what I needed to know. I want high image quality and easy to edit. Now I know what to look for.

 

[drcandon]

Hi...

I hope you are still looking at this thread...I just went through the whole camcorder upgrade thing...I am not a big fan of camcorders, I prefer still photography but, that being said, in some circumstances only motion video conveys the real feeling..so, I will make it short..

4mm or 8mm - HI8 - most experts agree for amateur use this is on its way out. tape is a linear format ( think about how you find a show on your VCR ) - not random access...tape is cheap..and editing is only possible ( easily) once you dump the footage down to a computer and then edit...HD ( high def) on tape is becoming a rarity - only use SP which means 2 hours on a full tape...these camcorders tend to be the cheapest...Hi8 or 8mm are dinosaurs if you can still find them..editing for 8mm looses quality as you must go from analog to digital...4mm stays in the digital domain so lossless quality

DVD - these use 3in DVD's instead of the 5 " ones commonly used on a computer as such will only hold 60 min of time in HQ mode - do not use any other mode sure you get 90 min BUT the quality is significantly decreased...medium ismore expensive then tape, but access is random ( like your home DVD player) NO HD available now - although bluray camcorders are on the way ( very expensive) ..editing is simple -copy the VOB file ( mpeg2) format to the computer and edit with just about any type of editing program 9 stays int he digital domain)

HDD - HD now the norm (although regular definition HDD camcorders are available as well) - highest image quality (1080i) - all new camcorders have shock resistant HDD and various technologies to protect them from a drop...random access contol of video- editing is both simple and complex -all video can be simply copied to a computer for editing - in standard format ( mpeg2) then edit and dump to a dvd ( many software programs avaialbel -under $100.00) - in HD format things are a bit mor complex - avchd is beoming the standard HD format for camcorders this will give you the abililty to all the way up to 1080p depending on the camcordr - however once you have the video on the HDD burning it a media is more complex - Avchd can be burned to a regular DVD - but must be watched on a profile 2.0 and above Bluray player - but since you are into HD that is the way anyways..bluray burners are starting to come down in price and so are the editing programs..HD camcorders can record in SD or regular mpeg2 format as well - Hdd come in all sizes up to 120 G - long record times

solid state camcorders- these are the newest camcorders out - most HD - record to solid state media like compact flash cards, SD cards etc etc..these can record AVCHD or SD ( in some cases - depending on brand) - no moving parts to worry about - potential for high dependabilty - random access as well - however right now limited by the size of the recording media - 16 to 32 G cards are the max right now and are pricey - also they must be high speed cards - low end ones will drop frames - very very small as well and very light weight...IF the cards would get cheaper and bigger - this would be my personal choice..however the in camera editing functions on these camcorders are usually cut back on..for example, most of these do not have eye level viewfinders - only the lcd screen....because these can do HD see above comments for editing the final output.

hope this helps a bit

 

[ghost1000]

When I made the switch to a dSLR before our recent trip I was also looking for a small camcorder to replace my older one. I was also looking for one that recorded in a Mac-friendly format and could download the videos immediately. I would never end up transferring video to the computer from DV tape (you have to copy things to your computer in real time) so the old videos would never get watched.

I read several wonderful reviews of the Flip and the "Mino" model was releasing a few days before our trip so I ordered it. It was a nice small size and you can't beat the ease of use. But the video left a bit to be desired (but certainly not bad) and worst of all the files would require conversion to be used with most of the editing software I use - so back to Amazon it went.


I started doing some research on small point and shoot cameras that do good video as an alternative to the Flip. I found the Casio Exilim EX-S10 on sale for about $50 more than I paid for the Mino. It is an extremely small point and shoot camera which has an excellent video mode - it even does widescreen. It has a dedicated "video record" button on the back so there is no fumbling in menus.

It records in h.264 video so it plays well with Macs (you can even drag the files directly into itunes and they can play on ipods/appletv natively). It records as long as you memory card/battery can hold - a 4 gig SD card is well over an hour of video in the highest resolution widescreen and I've recorded 30-40 minutes of video straight on a single battery charge (in addition to using the camera that day).

In addition its a fairly decent little 10 mega pixel camera - one of the days on our trip it was raining when we left the hotel and looked like we would have a wet day - so I left the big camera at home and popped this one into a ziplock bag in my pocket. It was good to have on hand.

Here is a youtube video I put together of our sons first haircut (and him playing in a fountain) - all of the video is from the Exilim (and keep in mind youtube reduces the video quality a little):

http://youtube.com/watch?v=PRyYsN6tkvU

 

[DawnM]

Yes, I am still here. Thank you all so much.

We finally got out shopping today. DH is really wanting one of the HD with the hard drive models like the Sony HDR-SR11. I was thinking around $500.....guess I shouldn't have taken DH

We still haven't bought one, but we are seriously considering that one.

Dawn

 

[DawnM]

I am not sure I understand ALL of what you have said! I am trying.

When you mention HD do you mean hard drive or do you mean high def?

One thing DH reminded me of is that we do not have a High Def recorder. I don't know how much those would be, but it is something to consider.

What about the camcorders that have the cd rewritable? I know you can only record 90 min. but can't you download those to your computer and still put them on a regular sized CD and then record over them?

I do see that Sony has one that is high def AND with a cd. They are about half the price of the same one with a hard drive.

Still about what to do.

We DO still have an 8mm but we can't get any of our current batteries to charge enough to use it.

Dawn

Hi...

I hope you are still looking at this thread...I just went through the whole camcorder upgrade thing...I am not a big fan of camcorders, I prefer still photography but, that being said, in some circumstances only motion video conveys the real feeling..so, I will make it short..

4mm or 8mm - HI8 - most experts agree for amateur use this is on its way out. tape is a linear format ( think about how you find a show on your VCR ) - not random access...tape is cheap..and editing is only possible ( easily) once you dump the footage down to a computer and then edit...HD ( high def) on tape is becoming a rarity - only use SP which means 2 hours on a full tape...these camcorders tend to be the cheapest...Hi8 or 8mm are dinosaurs if you can still find them..editing for 8mm looses quality as you must go from analog to digital...4mm stays in the digital domain so lossless quality

DVD - these use 3in DVD's instead of the 5 " ones commonly used on a computer as such will only hold 60 min of time in HQ mode - do not use any other mode sure you get 90 min BUT the quality is significantly decreased...medium ismore expensive then tape, but access is random ( like your home DVD player) NO HD available now - although bluray camcorders are on the way ( very expensive) ..editing is simple -copy the VOB file ( mpeg2) format to the computer and edit with just about any type of editing program 9 stays int he digital domain)

HDD - HD now the norm (although regular definition HDD camcorders are available as well) - highest image quality (1080i) - all new camcorders have shock resistant HDD and various technologies to protect them from a drop...random access contol of video- editing is both simple and complex -all video can be simply copied to a computer for editing - in standard format ( mpeg2) then edit and dump to a dvd ( many software programs avaialbel -under $100.00) - in HD format things are a bit mor complex - avchd is beoming the standard HD format for camcorders this will give you the abililty to all the way up to 1080p depending on the camcordr - however once you have the video on the HDD burning it a media is more complex - Avchd can be burned to a regular DVD - but must be watched on a profile 2.0 and above Bluray player - but since you are into HD that is the way anyways..bluray burners are starting to come down in price and so are the editing programs..HD camcorders can record in SD or regular mpeg2 format as well - Hdd come in all sizes up to 120 G - long record times

solid state camcorders- these are the newest camcorders out - most HD - record to solid state media like compact flash cards, SD cards etc etc..these can record AVCHD or SD ( in some cases - depending on brand) - no moving parts to worry about - potential for high dependabilty - random access as well - however right now limited by the size of the recording media - 16 to 32 G cards are the max right now and are pricey - also they must be high speed cards - low end ones will drop frames - very very small as well and very light weight...IF the cards would get cheaper and bigger - this would be my personal choice..however the in camera editing functions on these camcorders are usually cut back on..for example, most of these do not have eye level viewfinders - only the lcd screen....because these can do HD see above comments for editing the final output.

hope this helps a bit

 

[Bete]

I love it! Keep in mind though the demands on your computer are large for any hi def camcorder. I bought a new PC to help in this regard. I bought large, external hard drives, too. I have two, hard drives, one to hold what I call the raw footage I shoot and the other the edited footage. It takes a lot of time to edit or make a production using hi def, too.

If I were buying now I would not go with the newest models or the oldest ones. I would get a good deal on one that's a year or so old. Why pay top price for brand new when you can probably get one that's 95% of what's out there right now brand new for say half or little more in cost.

If you can wait until Christmas time, I think there will be many good deals on hi def camcorders.

 

[DisneySuiteFreak]

Canon HV20 -- 2007 camcorder of the year. The HV30 is newer, cheaper and essentially the same as the HV20 with just a few upgrades. It uses Mini DVs so easy to transfer (no need to buy a new computer) and they are both HD, but can record in SD as well. From what I have read/understood, you'd need a dual or quad processor computer to handle the AVCHD that a lot of the HD camcorders (Hard drive based ones especially) now record in. I've heard of people w/ dual core processors that needed to upgrade to quad computer beausetheir dual core couldn't handle the editing processes. If I were to buy a new camcorder right now, I would get this one because I have no desire to have to go out and buy a new computer in order to handle the editing issues. (Not to mention the software...) They run about $699-799 online at reputable places. Check out hv20.com. Tons of info on there about HD recording and specifically the HV20/30...

 

[DawnM]

Well, in further discussion this is what we are afraid of. UGH! We may have to do lower end now and just get by for a while until we upgrade everything. Do you also have a high def dvd burner????

Any suggestions on last year's non-high def models????

Thanks so much.

Dawn

I love it! Keep in mind though the demands on your computer are large for any hi def camcorder. I bought a new PC to help in this regard. I bought large, external hard drives, too. I have two, hard drives, one to hold what I call the raw footage I shoot and the other the edited footage. It takes a lot of time to edit or make a production using hi def, too.

If I were buying now I would not go with the newest models or the oldest ones. I would get a good deal on one that's a year or so old. Why pay top price for brand new when you can probably get one that's 95% of what's out there right now brand new for say half or little more in cost.

If you can wait until Christmas time, I think there will be many good deals on hi def camcorders.

 

[bob100]

I don't what your camera needs are but I will mention some cameras (Canon S5, Panasonic FZ18) shoot fantastic video. There is a full resolution sample link in my signature. One drawback is the video file is large 1 min. = 125 MB but it's a great feature in a camera without having a separate camcorder. I don't take that many videos but it came in handy when people started dancing at a wedding!

 

[DawnM]

You know, I am reading through the S3 and S5 thread.....love the quality of the still shots! I am really looking at getting one of those closely.

I would def. want more than a few minutes of footage as I really want more keepsakes of my kids and such, but that would certainly help in a pinch. I do have a Sony that will do some video if I need it, but it is only a 4.1 camera.

Dawn

I don't what your camera needs are but I will mention some cameras (Canon S5, Panasonic FZ18) shoot fantastic video. There is a full resolution sample link in my signature. One drawback is the video file is large 1 min. = 125 MB but it's a great feature in a camera without having a separate camcorder. I don't take that many videos but it came in handy when people started dancing at a wedding!

 

[thomas998]

Okay... if you want lower cost... you can start by crossing high def camcorders off your list... so now your at the standard def line.

First... you'll cross off the HDD (hard drive storage camcorders), they tend to be the most expensive ones out there... So now your left with either the mini-DV tape or the mini-DVD disk camcorders... frankly you will have a trade off here... quality will be better with the tape based camcorders, but editing is easier with the DVD disk camcorders.... if you use the tape based you will need to make sure your computer has a firewire port so that you can edit the video on your computer because that is the best way to do it... if you go with the disk version then you'll be able to use your computers dvd drive to import the video for editing... in general you should assume that any editing will take place on your computer, it may not be what you want but it is the best way to do it.

As for the actual camcorder... standard def camcorders are all pretty decent. The only things you really need to do is go to a store and see how they feel in your hands... some are shaped oddly and wont feel right. The thing you really want to make sure is on the camcorder is the manual focusing on the lenses itself or via a hard control, Sony's line of camcorders put the manual focus on the camera via a touch screen trust me you don't want that it is completely useless.... So frankly cross Sony off your list... look for either a Canon or JVC... I have had a couple of JVCs that use the mini-DV tape and am quite happy with them.... We've also got two Sony's and quite frankly they will likely be on Craigslist or Ebay before the Summer is over (pictures are fine but the stupid manual focus is total crap)... hope that help... frankly if you have a firewire port on your computer I would suggest the mini-DV tapes... they are cheapest to buy, cheapest media to buy and best quality.

 

[DisneySuiteFreak]

There is another way that isn't too costly. You could get the HD Mini Dv camcorder (like the HV20/30) and buy one of those VHS/DVD burner combos that they sell at Wal-Mart.
You don't have to put the video into your computer. You could do it old school style and record it directly onto DVD from the camcorder in real time. Each Mini Dv is Max 90 minutes or at HD will be 60 minutes. Also you don't need to buy high end MiniDVs, regular ones work the same in your HD camcorder. You can burn your DVDs (of course you won't be able to edit it and title it or any of those things.) However, you can still make chapters on the DVD. And basically this is just to record your kids for posterity, so I would think that this would be good enough, unless you're wanting to get into the whole editing thing. The DVD recorder combos are pretty cheap. The last one I bought was about $130 at Wal Mart. They also sell just the DVD burner by itself. Doing it this way is basically, what you see is what you get. It ain't fancy, but you'll be able to have good quality for relatively low expense and won't have to worry about buying a HD burner or a new computer. My friend does this all the time and the video looks great.

The VHS/DVD combo and DVD recorder I mentioned above are the type that plug into your TV, not the computer, fyi...

 

[DisneySuiteFreak]

One more thing about the HV20/30, it has the best low light capabilities even better than the newest Sony HD that just came out. (The one higher than the 11 that you were looking at.) That's always a plus when filming in Disney...
If you absolutely want non high def, you should get one that has 3CCDs, like the Panasonic gs320. I have one and it's great. Do not get anything less than a 3CCD because the video will look pixelated and blurr in low light conditions.
Seriously though, you should take a look at the HV20 or 30. They do not record in AVCHD. It's the AVCHD coding that makes it difficult to edit and requires a faster computer because it eats up a lot of memory, so voila, no AVCHD coding, you're good to go. If I had it to do again, this is the camera I would get.

 

[Bete]

I'm not a techy, but I feel I put everything in layman's terms and I'm pretty real with my opinions if I write a comment. I love my hi-def Canon HV-20. For the money, it's great and I bought it when it was on the market for about 6 months. I paid 75% of the brand new price of when it first came out and bought at Christmas time. Prices have come down even more on this camcorder over the last year; because, it's not brand new anymore. You get the advantage of a cheaper price and a high definition camcorder with excellent reviews from many sources. I think there are pro-consumer camcorders that are not as good for twice or three times the money. Sony sells their name very well in the market, but it doesn't mean they have the best products.

You can play your video through the DV tapes (I would buy the most expensive good tapes you want to spend for and stick with the same kind of tape forever) with your high definition camcorder hooked up onto most TVs. It won't be edited, but you have your memories and they are in high definition. You will never regret going to high definition when it comes to family memories. You can at a later time get a new PC, etc. and then have more fun doing the edits and making your own productions. For short clips, I would think you could get by with your current computer anyway and do some editing on it in high definition. Also, you have the option of doing smaller resolution even if you shoot in high definition for editing purposes. This makes it more doable for older PCs. You can try high definition as is on your current PC and see how it goes, too. It may work just fine. You may find it to be okay.

The quality difference between standard and high definition video is just too great to be satisfied with standard resolution, now. Blu ray will take over eventually and you will love your high definition camcorder even more at that time.

I didn't mean to scare you about taking the plunge; I just wanted you to know the ups and downs of this decision. I'm very happy with my high definition camcorder.

 

[bob100]

You will never regret going to high definition when it comes to family memories.
The quality difference between standard and high definition video is just too great to be satisfied with standard resolution, now.

I would check out a video sample or read all the reviews before buying a "Hi Def" camcorder. I saw a "High Definition" camcorder at walmart for $69, it was about the size of a deck of cards and the lens opening seemed very small. Even though marketed as "Hi Def" they are not all the same quality!