This is how we our country is perceived...

[Lord Manhammer]

Kind of interesting the direction that this thread took...some Communication student could have a very interesting study on her hands with this discussion board...

 

[RedHead0186]

An interesting question. Given the choice, of the two, which is worse? Government interfering what you and your doctor can do? Or insurance companies? Both desire control to maintain their very existence for their own particular reasons.

If you are anti-government, then both reflexively and politically the government is worse. Insurance? Thats just the free market in action. But what if you think the free market is running amok? Then reflexively its the insurance companies that are the worst. Governments are there for the benefit of 'the people'. So for one side, a %100 free market is the solution and the other its strict government control.

In reality, neither is much of a solution and we have seen both. Taken to their extremes %100 free market can be called 'anarchy' while the other called 'police state'. Another interesting dichotomy. Do you prefer anarchy? Or do you prefer police state? Or... do you prefer the constant and never ending battle to find somewhere in the middle at any given point in time? As annoying and difficult as that is, perhaps that is the only realistic option.

Interesting question. My knee jerk reaction is that insurance companies are worse. I think the government (or at least some governmental organizations, like the CDC) at least have some aim of helping the public. Not saying it always happens that way, and as I acknowledged earlier there's a lot of 'politics' that can get in the way. But insurance companies are in it to make money-as a business, that is their primary goal. So their (yes I'm anthropomorphizing insurance companies) decisions are going to be primarily based on what makes (or saves) them the most money.

Again, that's my knee jerk reaction, and I'm sure there are other angles I haven't considered. Full disclose I also work in healthcare, and have worked with individuals from some of these organizations, CDC included, so I'm probably a bit more defensive of them that the average joe might be.

 

[EACarlson]

There is active harm happening right now from these laws. Transgender adults have been denied access to their hormone therapy because of these laws. Thankfully, many of these laws are being significantly pared down as they work their way through the court systems because they are so blatantly unconstitutional.

No they have not, they have chosen to not follow the path that is laid out for them. The state is requiring that a physician prescribe "sex reassignment prescriptions" and receive affirmative consent in writing from the patient. Every state has their own limitations on what non-physician providers can do.

An interesting question. Given the choice, of the two, which is worse? Government interfering what you and your doctor can do? Or insurance companies? Both desire control to maintain their very existence for their own particular reasons.

If you are anti-government, then both reflexively and politically the government is worse. Insurance? Thats just the free market in action. But what if you think the free market is running amok? Then reflexively its the insurance companies that are the worst. Governments are there for the benefit of 'the people'. So for one side, a %100 free market is the solution and the other its strict government control.

In reality, neither is much of a solution and we have seen both. Taken to their extremes %100 free market can be called 'anarchy' while the other called 'police state'. Another interesting dichotomy. Do you prefer anarchy? Or do you prefer police state? Or... do you prefer the constant and never ending battle to find somewhere in the middle at any given point in time? As annoying and difficult as that is, perhaps that is the only realistic option.

Health insurance and government are linked inextricably in our system, and really has been since WWII when employee provided health insurance became the norm because of government mandates and in the years since the federal government has pretty much set health care prices based on what Medicare would pay.

 

[Sykes]

No they have not, they have chosen to not follow the path that is laid out for them. The state is requiring that a physician prescribe "sex reassignment prescriptions" and receive affirmative consent in writing from the patient. Every state has their own limitations on what non-physician providers can do.

That's re-writing history--it took more than a month after the passing of the law (May 17 to June 21) for the Florida Board of Osteopathic Medicine to develop guidelines that provided a clear path for the administration of gender-affirming care to adults, during which MANY transgender adults were denied treatment, even those that went through physicians. And that doesn't even acknowledge how difficult it can be for already-vulnerable patients to navigate completely new processes with potentially completely new healthcare providers.

The worst part is that this is all for a completely manufactured problem. The number of minors receiving nonreversible gender affirming care is so infinitesimally small that trying to defend the laws as presented by the supporters is laughable when compared to the (most certainly intentional) collateral damage that they have caused.

 

[Disneychick13]

Interesting question. My knee jerk reaction is that insurance companies are worse. I think the government (or at least some governmental organizations, like the CDC) at least have some aim of helping the public. Not saying it always happens that way, and as I acknowledged earlier there's a lot of 'politics' that can get in the way. But insurance companies are in it to make money-as a business, that is their primary goal. So their (yes I'm anthropomorphizing insurance companies) decisions are going to be primarily based on what makes (or saves) them the most money.

Again, that's my knee jerk reaction, and I'm sure there are other angles I haven't considered. Full disclose I also work in healthcare, and have worked with individuals from some of these organizations, CDC included, so I'm probably a bit more defensive of them that the average joe might be.

I want to agree with you about insurance companies being worse than governmental agencies/medical associations but I can’t get there (even though insurance companies earn no love from me). The difference is that no one trusts insurance companies; we all know they are in it for themselves and not the good of the individual (or society in general). But the CDC? AMA? American association of pediatrics? My whole life (and I also worked in healthcare and with people from the CDC) I had such trust in those institutions. Most people do (or did). But what I have seen the past few years, especially in the Covid realm and the field relating to gender dysphoria (pointedly in children and adolescents) I have come to see that they are just as open to corruption and misinformation as media members or politicians. I still think for the most part they want to be a force for good (at least in my heart) but my head is telling me to be wary of what they say. Any that’s a very dangerous thing in society for its members to distrust health agencies and organizations. As a medical professional, in a family of multiple medical professionals, it has been a sad and sobering thing to see.

 

[EACarlson]

That's re-writing history--it took more than a month after the passing of the law (May 17 to June 21) for the Florida Board of Osteopathic Medicine to develop guidelines that provided a clear path for the administration of gender-affirming care to adults, during which MANY transgender adults were denied treatment, even those that went through physicians.

34 days, I would absolutely agree that the effective date of the law should have been at least 30 days after the required informed consent forms were ready.

You would agree that has been corrected? Not much of a reason for a foreign government to issue a travel warning, agreed?

 

[Sheryl2059]

To be fair, the children and covid masking issue was a far far bigger concern than this one ever will be. And that is simply because that issue affected YOUR children 24/7/365, assuming you live in Fla with kids. Or if you were among the millions of out of state visitors with kids for that matter. Not others that you will never know even existed. Not even how many.

If your gubna wanted a nationally resonating issue, that takes place in every home, and with all kinds of broad ramifications then it should be talking all about wars against big tech over their monopolies not their cultural views. It has areas across the board to talk about and link to. He would do best to dismiss Disney and the rest as nothing more than business pandering to keep customers and their money.

As for government, a great many think it is not in it for the good of the individual or society at all. So it all depends on who you ask.

 

[xipotec]

That's re-writing history--it took more than a month after the passing of the law (May 17 to June 21) for the Florida Board of Osteopathic Medicine to develop guidelines that provided a clear path for the administration of gender-affirming care to adults, during which MANY transgender adults were denied treatment, even those that went through physicians. And that doesn't even acknowledge how difficult it can be for already-vulnerable patients to navigate completely new processes with potentially completely new healthcare providers.

The worst part is that this is all for a completely manufactured problem. The number of minors receiving nonreversible gender affirming care is so infinitesimally small that trying to defend the laws as presented by the supporters is laughable when compared to the (most certainly intentional) collateral damage that they have caused.

Lets also not forget the law that allowed parents who sought transgender care to have thei kids taken away from them by force.....

Its allowed in the law, just because no law enforcement has tried does not mean its not threatening families with transgendered kids.

Its also WILDLY mis reported on many social media sites and "news" programs that children are getting their sexes changed (12 and younger) A large percent of the population believe these kids are having parts of them cut off or altered surgically, which feeds the hysteria about it.

Meanwhile in reality land , kids go through years of therapy before starting any hormone therapy , and its closely monitored by qualified physicians.

Why is any of that someone elses business? There are plenty of abused children who deal with horrors every day in the foster care system......seems like no one cares about them.....unless they identify and LGBTQ.

 

[gmi3804]

‘America Is The Greatest Country On Earth,’ Says Man Who Spends 6 Hours A Day Posting About How Every City A Third World Hellhole

 

[Lumpy1106]

Lots of "not my problem , so not a problem" thinking by people whom are totally unaffected by this....

Those same people will look the other way when being LGBTQ is fully outlawed....

Every one of them is complicit and actively ignoring all the laws being passed against this harmless/maginallized community.

They will say the same thing when reeducation camps come along.

IMHO, from a person who lives in a very inclusive city, the LGB community has nothing to worry about. Nobody is trying to outlaw any of that. The LGB community is embraced where I live so much so that the gay pride events are nothing more than a party - acceptance and inclusivity came a long time ago.
The "T" however...
I think we, as a society really need to take a step back and think long and hard about how this is handled, ESPECIALLY when it comes to kids. If you are an adult and identified as T a long time ago, fine, but let's get real, the number of people that fall in that category is a fraction of a percent, a TINY fraction of a percent! Since the kids were all locked away in their bedrooms for years on end though, we, at least in my community, are seeing HS aged kids, especially girls, identifying as T in HUGE numbers! We are talking 20-30%! I'm all for inclusivity but comeon - something is seriously wrong here and I am seeing absolutely zero research being done to figure out what it is. This is a big problem, and it's not getting solved by insulting the people who are calling for a time out to figure this out. Instead you are seeing those same people getting called names any time they don't use the right "gender pronouns". Seriously? Who is in the wrong here, and what is wrong with at least pointing it out? How are these kids ever going to figure it out if we all just play along with this insanity?

 

[Sheryl2059]

20-30%? Sources that arent tied to some person or group that advocates for anything? Or simply in it for the money? You would be surprised how many 'news' sources are anything but and in many cases are run by people that will say anything to get you to view their particular pages and such for the traffic and thus the advertising revenue. So they can drive around in their expensive cars and buy expensive toys.

And so they can take $50k trips to Disneyworld in top of the line villas or other accommodations.

 

[Beer Me]

That could be described as the usual 'do what I say or you dont get the money' issue. Hardly a government specific problem. It is however a part of society that we accept and do ourselves. Including to our children that so many say they do what they do in order to 'protect' them. Do 'this' and dont do 'that' or you dont get your allowance. The interesting part is when the child doesnt care about the money.

Kind of a funny way of thinking. If government is the parent and we are the children, what happens if we tell the parent that we dont need nor want their money? I suppose then it becomes a matter of 'punishment'. Which is not a viable solution in the long term. Both applied by governments, and by parents. Children grow up and they dont forget.

The government (which is us) and insurance companies are paying for most care. So of course they want to provide incentives for good care and penalties for bad care. What constitutes good and bad is typically based on many years of high quality research.

If your doctor won’t prescribe a statin if indicated (which has solid scientific rationale and proven outcomes) or will prescribe ivermectin for covid (which has not been proven effective by any large study) they are not following science. I’m glad health care payers try to weed them out.

 

[Lumpy1106]

20-30%? Sources that arent tied to some person or group that advocates for anything? Or simply in it for the money? You would be surprised how many 'news' sources are anything but and in many cases are run by people that will say anything to get you to view their particular pages and such for the traffic and thus the advertising revenue. So they can drive around in their expensive cars and buy expensive toys.

And so they can take $50k trips to Disneyworld in top of the line villas or other accommodations.

If it is more than 1% that is much too far from reality. Pew Research says it's north of 5% https://www.pewresearch.org/short-r...s-different-from-their-sex-assigned-at-birth/ I'm telling you from personal observation, DD in Girl Souts, it's much higher than that. Why is it that there is such a vast difference depending on age? Depending on gender? That makes no sense.
There's just no basis in reality here - something else is going on. I 100% believe it has everything to do with the COVID shutdowns and HS social isolation - that was SOO much more damaging than we are being led to believe.

But look, if people really are Trans, OK, they deserve to be treated fairly. I'm saying let's stop and see what is really going on. First do no harm - what's wrong with that?

 

[xipotec]

Abortion outlawed and made criminal (they said that would never happen)

Trans rights trampled and children feel likenthey can be torn away from their parents (also people said they couldn't happen in America.

Your naive to think LGBTQ is safe from anything.

And please provide a reputable source on your statistics. They always said being gay was small numbers also.....so you think Covid lockdowns made kids trans.....nice insinuation.

So blame youtube and rap music while you are at it.

And again....why does it matter so much to you? If everyone actually involved is i agreement ??? Why are you so concerned with this particular issue?

 

[Lumpy1106]

Abortion outlawed and made criminal (they said that would never happen)

Trans rights trampled and children feel likenthey can be torn away from their parents (also people said they couldn't happen in America.

Your naive to think LGBTQ is safe from anything.

And please provide a reputable source on your statistics. They always said being gay was small numbers also.....so you think Covid lockdowns made kids trans.....nice insinuation.

So blame youtube and rap music while you are at it.

And again....why does it matter so much to you? If everyone actually involved is i agreement ??? Why are you so concerned with this particular issue?

WOW - not what I said.

I said I don't believe that many people are Trans. Why all the sudden? Why more girls than boys? Why is there such a huge difference depending on age? Are you telling me you don't really want to find out what is going on? Is there really no sense in following any sort of science? I can tell you this; this would not be a discussion if "everyone involved is actually in agreement".

Fine - I see where you are coming from. Maybe read my posts and you tell me - is my heart in the right place or am I just spewing hate speech? FWIW - I cared what happened to kids during the shutdowns and I care about the lingering affects of the shutdowns - I've been really consistent, so much so it even got me kicked off of this platform for a while. We locked those kids away from their peers when they needed them most. OF COURSE that's going to affect their development. You're saying it didn't? Source please.

 

[Sheryl2059]

What is going on? First you must tell us why it is any of your business, or ours, about anyones personal affairs. Or if its about minors, why it is any of your business about them and their parents personal affairs as well. Seems people want to dance around that one.

If you are one of the letters in LGBTQ its none of my business. If your kid is, its none of my business. Only his or hers and yours as the parent. If there are any medical considerations or decisions surrounding it, also none of my business. I have no need to know. In terms on my own personal behavior, let alone trying to advocate for or create laws affecting your life. None of my business.

I am very particular about personal privacy, as far as it is possible these days. Nobody has any right to know anything about me whatsoever. Especially my own personal decisions about my life. So, tell us why JQ Public has the right to know anything about other people? Much less do anything about it?

 

[Sheryl2059]

Forgot to add, for arguments sake lets say a good %50 of the people in this country are gay or lesbian. My answer to that would be....

"And?"

 

[starlite_]

Forgot to add, for arguments sake lets say a good %50 of the people in this country are gay or lesbian. My answer to that would be....

"And?"

These ppl are so terrified of having a trans child that they want trans ppl removed from the picture completely. If kids don't see examples they might not be able to articulate their feelings and mommy and daddy can remain in traditional family bliss. Never caring their kid is miserable.

 

[xipotec]

WOW - not what I said.

I said I don't believe that many people are Trans. Why all the sudden? Why more girls than boys? Why is there such a huge difference depending on age? Are you telling me you don't really want to find out what is going on? Is there really no sense in following any sort of science? I can tell you this; this would not be a discussion if "everyone involved is actually in agreement".

Fine - I see where you are coming from. Maybe read my posts and you tell me - is my heart in the right place or am I just spewing hate speech? FWIW - I cared what happened to kids during the shutdowns and I care about the lingering affects of the shutdowns - I've been really consistent, so much so it even got me kicked off of this platform for a while. We locked those kids away from their peers when they needed them most. OF COURSE that's going to affect their development. You're saying it didn't? Source please.

The fact you think something is "going on" says somehow this is wrong? If its not wrong than who cares what is going on?

Maybe people are finally able to come out and be who they want, and some people do not like that?

The 80's had plenty of this kind of thinking when people were coming out of the closet....

Maybe its just been there all along and it was repressed? The Trans community is coming out of the closet now, and thats why we have the same groups of people fighting against it , as when the LG community came out in large numbers in the 70-80's

Nothing is going on any differently than other moment in time.

 

[ej119]

I really hope the mods step in here and shut this thread down. Seems to be a lot of anti-LGBTQ trolling under the guise of free speech and protecting the children.