Therapy Dog Question......

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

We haven’t asked her, but we should.

I wouldn't even go there, that's why I mentioned about the ADA website. You're going to be poking a hornet's nest if you start in on asking too many questions, it could provoke her to claim service animal (which therein prohibits you from requesting documentation as there is none).

Keep it short and sweet and advise her to not allow her dog in. Arm yourself with ADA knowledge so you can push back against her should she push back against you.

 

[Buzz Rules]

We haven’t asked her, but we should.

I'm not an attorney but I would definitely recommend your office contacts one to know all your legal options.

 

[cabanafrau]

A few months back one of the attorneys at work was talking about a lawsuit he was involved with at the time regarding a "service dog" that was actually a pet the owner had designated as their service dog for emotional support when in fact the evidence actually showed the owner had bought a puppy for one of their children, never bothered with following through on the basics of even training for the dog to be part of the household, let alone anything regarding service training, and solved that negligence by declaring the dog their service animal and taking it everywhere with them so the dog wouldn't destroy their home while left alone.

When asked in deposition why they didn't get a crate for the dog when they left home they said that their neighbors complained to their landlord that the dog was barking for hours at a time and the landlord had finally paid a visit to the neighbors, heard the dog and had written requesting an inspection of the property. Landlord agreed not to move for eviction after seeing the damage to the home if they paid for repairs. In order to avoid further repair expenses, neighbor complaints and/or eviction in the future they "solved" the issue with the service animal solution and took the dog everywhere they went.

The lawsuit cropped up out of an incident where the dog had caused damage and had been aggressive at a business while out with the owner. I can't remember the full details, but I think it was a hair salon. It wasn't a biting incident, but things were knocked over onto people, broken and one or more people were scratched trying to stop more things from toppling over and getting control of the dog.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I question the nipping of the legs being part of a dog's therapy training??? Like, for what reason??

The picture the OP posted looks like a Pomeranian they are notorious for biting ankles and are often yappy dogs.

 

[lanejudy]

100%
She calls the dog a "trained therapy dog" but from her explanation on why she requires it, it is very much for emotional support.

It does sound like "emotional support" animal. You need to check YOUR state's laws to see if ESA's have any legal protection -- i.e. must be allowed like a service animal. Usually not (definitely by federal ADA) but it can vary by state.

Does she have documentation about the dog? Do state laws require proof of training?

We haven’t asked her, but we should.

Absolutely not. There is no documentation required nor can it be requested. Don't go there. There are only 2 questions that you can ask about a true service dog (and it doesn't sound like this is):
Is the dog a trained service dog for a disability?
What is the dog trained to do to help with your disability?
Emotional support or I pet it to keep me calm or such is not something to train a service dog to do.


Once you check that ESAs have no protection within your state, you (or the doctor) need to inform this patient that the animal's behavior was unacceptable and therefore will not be allowed back into the office. She'll argue and complain but even a true Service Animal can be barred from a business for bad behavior. At this point, I would think since the dog already nipped at someone, you could be liable if it returned and nipped another patient or any individual in the office.

 

[xjillianpaige]

Direct from the ADA website

Service animals are defined as dogs that are individually trained to do work or perform tasks for people with disabilities... Service animals are working animals, not pets. The work or task a dog has been trained to provide must be directly related to the person’s disability. Dogs whose sole function is to provide comfort or emotional support do not qualify as service animals under the ADA.

Staff may ask two questions: (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability, and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform.

A service animal must be under the control of its handler.

 

[slo]

It does sound like "emotional support" animal. You need to check YOUR state's laws to see if ESA's have any legal protection -- i.e. must be allowed like a service animal. Usually not (definitely by federal ADA) but it can vary by state.



Absolutely not. There is no documentation required nor can it be requested. Don't go there.


Once you check that ESAs have no protection within your state, you (or the doctor) need to inform this patient that the animal's behavior was unacceptable and therefore will not be allowed back into the office. She'll argue and complain but even a true Service Animal can be barred from a business for bad behavior. At this point, I would think since the dog already nipped at someone, you could be liable if it returned and nipped another patient or any individual in the office.

I agree - Luckily, the dog is contained in a closed door room and is carried in a dog carrier backpack.

ETA - with the front open so the dog is sticking its head out. I would think that there’s a way to attach the dogs harness to the bag to prevent it from jumping out (my dog car seat has this), but if there is, she either doesn’t use it or removes it when in the room

 

[Dan Murphy]

Looks like you got the thoughts from the board, Sandy. Nippy, yappy dig loses.

 

[slo]

Looks like you got the thoughts from the board, Sandy. Nippy, yappy dig loses.

Yes, definitely- I can always count on my fellow DISers to give me good thoughts and advice

 

[JulieBeeRN]

My dogs would need their own service dogs to travel with me. One that is specifically trained to stop them from licking people to death.

 

[PollyannaMom]

As some know.....I manage a small doctor's office.
We have a patient that brings in her therapy dog and says that it is a "trained therapy dog". Every time she comes in, the dog barks, growls at the doctor, and today got out of it's carrier and started nipping at both of his legs. So....my question to those that know more than me.....

Is this normal?
Do trained therapy dogs behave like this? I thought trained therapy dogs were calm and people barely know it's there.

Or....

Is this not normal?

Discuss

ETA - If anyone wants a visual, this is the type of dog she has

View attachment 928069

As cute as that pic is, I highly doubt that dog is trained for service or therapy. Every Pomeranian I've ever met was beautiful, but awfully high strung.

I agree the woman is either using it as, or trying to pass it off as, an "emotional support animal" - which people have already stated above, doesn't have the same protections as an actual service animal.

I hope you're able to resolve the issue without too much nastiness.

 

[Grandma4ever]

If the dog nips and is exhibiting aggression of any kind, the dog has no business in the public. I would inform this person that before you can see her again in the company of her dog that the dog must be kept under control and that proof of the dog's certification to be a service/therapy dog must be in the clinic file. No if and or buts. I would put money on it that the dog has not been trained or certified!

 

[sam_gordon]

If the dog nips and is exhibiting aggression of any kind, the dog has no business in the public. I would inform this person that before you can see her again in the company of her dog that the dog must be kept under control and that proof of the dog's certification to be a service/therapy dog must be in the clinic file. No if and or buts. I would put money on it that the dog has not been trained or certified!

I thought there was no certification process.

 

[monsterkitty]

We have two therapy dogs who are also trained crisis dogs.

First, in order for therapy dogs to be certified, they must go through a battery of tests that are administered by a recognized and certified organization, such as Aliance of Therapy Dogs or Pet Partners. A dog cannot pass the tests for certification if it shows any signs of aggression or is a barker during a test.

If she is claiming her dog is a therapy dog, ask what organization certified the dog and ask for the paperwork she is supposed to carry with the dog at all times if it is working. If she can't do that or says she doesn't have to provide the information, she's not telling the truth. If she does provide the organizations name and her paperwork, call the organization and give them the details of the behavior of both the person and the dog. They can and will revoke the certification.

As others have stated, therapy dogs do not have the same "rights" as true service animals. Businesses do not have to allow the therapy dog into the business.

When our dogs are in crisis response mode, they are considered working dogs and are often afforded more liberties. We still ask if we can bring our dog in a business with us, but we are always prepared when they say no. Airlines will allow our dogs to fly in the cabin with us like a service dog would. When we are responding to a crisis, there are even two airlines that fly us and our dogs for free and others at a greatly reduced price (we pay for crisis travel out of our own pockets and usually not reimbursed.)

If the dog is truly certified please contact the organization that tested the dog and the handler as their reputation is on the line. The organizations that certify therapy dogs almost always carry insurance on the dogs to cover incidents such as bites (dogs are dogs no matter what training they have.) The organization will revoke the certification for their own safety because they don't want an incident on their insurance.

 

[monsterkitty]

I thought there was no certification process.

There is a certification process for therapy dogs consisting of a battery of tests. Therapy dogs must also carry paperwork that has proof of vaccinations and that it is a certified therapy dog.

If the dog is not certified, then it's not a therapy dog. It's just a pet at all times that is causing chaos in places it should not be.

 

[mistysue]

We have two therapy dogs who are also trained crisis dogs.

First, in order for therapy dogs to be certified, they must go through a battery of tests that are administered by a recognized and certified organization, such as Aliance of Therapy Dogs or Pet Partners. A dog cannot pass the tests for certification if it shows any signs of aggression or is a barker during a test.

If she is claiming her dog is a therapy dog, ask what organization certified the dog and ask for the paperwork she is supposed to carry with the dog at all times if it is working. If she can't do that or says she doesn't have to provide the information, she's not telling the truth. If she does provide the organizations name and her paperwork, call the organization and give them the details of the behavior of both the person and the dog. They can and will revoke the certification.

As others have stated, therapy dogs do not have the same "rights" as true service animals. Businesses do not have to allow the therapy dog into the business.

When our dogs are in crisis response mode, they are considered working dogs and are often afforded more liberties. We still ask if we can bring our dog in a business with us, but we are always prepared when they say no. Airlines will allow our dogs to fly in the cabin with us like a service dog would. When we are responding to a crisis, there are even two airlines that fly us and our dogs for free and others at a greatly reduced price (we pay for crisis travel out of our own pockets and usually not reimbursed.)

If the dog is truly certified please contact the organization that tested the dog and the handler as their reputation is on the line. The organizations that certify therapy dogs almost always carry insurance on the dogs to cover incidents such as bites (dogs are dogs no matter what training they have.) The organization will revoke the certification for their own safety because they don't want an incident on their insurance.

There's not any sort of universal requirement for certification for a therapy dog. It's up to the business allowing the dog to set the rules. Most will recognize they don't want just anyone labeling their dog a therapy dog and wandering in off the street for liability reasons. I am glad you take it seriously though.
There are hacks who will "train" your therapy dog but don't give a crap how well that training took. I called a local trainer to ask if they could help about the dog they trained because he was barking, escaping, and wandering around the school and didn't even answer to his own name. The training company called the school district and "warned" them that I "hated animals and had it out for their dog". Now they could tell everyone I was the problem and that's exactly what they did. That lasted until the district had two separate lawsuits over their dogs attacking different students. But since there are no actual laws about this stuff, they "didn't do anything wrong" and could claim they were properly trained.

 

[mistysue]

I do think you're meaning legal rights but as you've written it I would clarify that it's not a pet/no pet situation.

Places like court houses, police departments, schools (like you mentioned), hospitals, etc can allow or employ (as some court houses do for example) therapy animals and at the same time not allow pets. In addition legally speaking there are states (not quite half) that have actual laws in place regarding specifically courthouse or facility support dogs so there would actually be legal grounds in those situations in those states.

But again I think you mean the owner of the dog in question in the place in question doesn't have legal protections.

Yes, exactly. They have no special rights, a business owner can admit or deny animals as they see fit (with service animal exceptions) and they can decide that therapy dogs are the same as pets to them or they can decide they are different. It's not worth getting in to if the business in question had their own therapy dog, as the issue at hand is a random customer bringing their dog and saying they get access as a therapy dog. That's not the customer's decision to make.

 

[monsterkitty]

There's not any sort of universal requirement for certification for a therapy dog. It's up to the business allowing the dog to set the rules. Most will recognize they don't want just anyone labeling their dog a therapy dog and wandering in off the street for liability reasons. I am glad you take it seriously though.
There are hacks who will "train" your therapy dog but don't give a crap how well that training took. I called a local trainer to ask if they could help about the dog they trained because he was barking, escaping, and wandering around the school and didn't even answer to his own name. The training company called the school district and "warned" them that I "hated animals and had it out for their dog". Now they could tell everyone I was the problem and that's exactly what they did. That lasted until the district had two separate lawsuits over their dogs attacking different students. But since there are no actual laws about this stuff, they "didn't do anything wrong" and could claim they were properly trained.

In my experience as a certified handler, the person who trains the dog cannot be the person who certifies the dog. The "trained" dog you mention would have to go through testing from a recognized therapy dog organization in order to receive the certification. The very basic parts of the certification require that the dog know simple commands such as stay, sit, and down, as well as no aggressive behavior towards humans or other animals.

The dog you speak of should have been in control of a handler at all times. There is no recognized organization that would allow a handler to let go of the leash at any time or take the dog off the leash.

All schools in my area contact either Alliance of Therapy Dogs (ATD) or Pet Partners when they want a therapy dog to visit their schools. Neither ATD or PP will allow an employee of the school to take their therapy dog into work with them and still be covered under the organization's insurance. The employee would have to take out a separate policy in order to do that. Schools would never allow a therapy dog into the building without the certification from a recognized organization because of the insurance issues.

You are correct, there are not universal requirements for certification. However, legitimate and recognized organizations all have the same or very similar certification requirements in order to avoid the issue you describe.

A trainer is not the tester or the organization that would certify a therapy dog and provide insurance. If a school district did allow such a dog into their building, the district did not vet the organization at all.

 

[mistysue]

In my experience as a certified handler, the person who trains the dog cannot be the person who certifies the dog. The "trained" dog you mention would have to go through testing from a recognized therapy dog organization in order to receive the certification. The very basic parts of the certification require that the dog know simple commands such as stay, sit, and down, as well as no aggressive behavior towards humans or other animals.

The dog you speak of should have been in control of a handler at all times. There is no recognized organization that would allow a handler to let go of the leash at any time or take the dog off the leash.

All schools in my area contact either Alliance of Therapy Dogs (ATD) or Pet Partners when they want a therapy dog to visit their schools. Neither ATD or PP will allow an employee of the school to take their therapy dog into work with them and still be covered under the organization's insurance. The employee would have to take out a separate policy in order to do that. Schools would never allow a therapy dog into the building without the certification from a recognized organization because of the insurance issues.

You are correct, there are not universal requirements for certification. However, legitimate and recognized organizations all have the same or very similar certification requirements in order to avoid the issue you describe.

A trainer is not the tester or the organization that would certify a therapy dog and provide insurance. If a school district did allow such a dog into their building, the district did not vet the organization at all.

Yes, what happened here was over the top crazy - it's just important to point out that the only ones requiring that certification are the businesses themselves - so if the business doesn't require it, it's not required. You don't have to prove a dog is certified to call them a therapy dog, it's only that some businesses will require it.

What happened here in a nutshell was one of the elementary principals met some idiot breeder who said "ah, yeah, I can train service dogs..." and he talked the superintendent into buying three of the dogs for the district. It was the alterative to having a school social worker to save money. They fired their real therapists and bought a litter of puppies. They gave one to each elementary principal as a pet, and had them start bringing the dogs in to work with them. They started "work" at around 8 months old. The principals would leave the dog behind when they had to go out naming random employees "DeFacto handlers." Yes, I pointed out to them how therapy dogs SHOULD work, etc, and it fell on deaf ears.
I only even started complaining because my son was having asthma attacks and the dog was free roaming, so would often be in the halls when he had to exchange classes. After a few ER visits, they declared that if my son saw the dog, he wasn't allowed in the hall where the dog was and also created a rule my son wasn't allowed in basically the front half of the building where they kept his emergency meds for the asthma. Trust me SHTF as quickly as you would expect with a handler who had no idea how to have a pet dog. But, in spite of my over sharing this tale because I have some serious trauma left over, the real point here is therapy dogs do have the similar legal grey area that service animals do, and the regulation is basically non existent. It took the district about 3 years to get rid of all three dogs, they quietly disappeared one at a time and of course nobody apologized for the absolute BS they put us through in the meanwhile. I know where two of them went, I suspect the third may have been put down.

 

[Mirabell Rose]

While I understand that you may want to learn about laws for therapy dogs, service dogs, etc., as the manager of a doctor’s office it seems you should be very knowledgeable about HIPPA law. Describing what goes on in an exam room when the physician is providing treatment, relaying that she reports she has/needs a therapy dog, and posting a picture of what the dog looks like on social media is a blatant violation of HIPPA - whether or not you post the patient’s name. The ethical, and legal, thing to do would be to discuss this with the physician or legal counsel, not to open your patient to judgement on a social media site.