the why behind fastpass+

[morethananyonex]

I could get behind the pay extra for prebooking (whether a fee or an onsite stay) if Disney hadn't come out and said the purpose behind booking FP+ early is to keep people from being tempted by non Disney attractions once in Orlando, spending more time and money at Disney. It just doesn't make sense to discourage offsite guests by tacking a fee on. They want offsite guests to get to Orlando and already have 7 days planned out at Disney so they have incentive to drive on to Disney property instead of planning their day in the hotel room that morning. They've already done a great job of "trapping" onsite guests. We are nowhere near as easily tempted by offsite attractions. If we do leave, it's because we have gone out of our way to do so, and that's a much harder fix (and probably a much smaller problem).

I was thinking, maybe they're messing with the FP to SB ratio so much lately to see how much extra capacity they can "create" in order to sell. I wouldn't be surprised if they take a chunk out of the current FP capacity and charge for it, whether directly, by hotel level, or both. I just can't see them holding back the prebooking aspect from anyone in the long run. That is vital for Disney IMO.

 

[ArwenMarie]

That's true, but it has never been their stated intent. Indeed, they are preparing to roll out pre-booking for off site guests once they have a better handle on this whole thing. So the "we pay more so we should get more" mantra will end. FP was never an on site perk, and FP+ was never rolled out as an on site perk, and soon, it won't be once the testing is over. So I don't spend too much time worrying about the "just pay more to stay on site" argument. That is all happenstance right now. But in the meantime, offsite guests are definitely second class citizens.

When I read the stuff that Disney has said, I can't figure it out either way. They put so many disclaimers in and use terms that aren't clearly defined anywhere.

Anyway, I guess at this point I look at what Disney is doing to try to figure out what the strategy is. If they change what they are doing, then I'll change what I think about where they are going with this.

 

[ArwenMarie]

I could get behind the pay extra for prebooking (whether a fee or an onsite stay) if Disney hadn't come out and said the purpose behind booking FP+ early is to keep people from being tempted by non Disney attractions once in Orlando, spending more time and money at Disney. It just doesn't make sense to discourage offsite guests by tacking a fee on. They want offsite guests to get to Orlando and already have 7 days planned out at Disney so they have incentive to drive on to Disney property instead of planning their day in the hotel room that morning. They've already done a great job of "trapping" onsite guests. We are nowhere near as easily tempted by offsite attractions. If we do leave, it's because we have gone out of our way to do so, and that's a much harder fix (and probably a much smaller problem).

I was thinking, maybe they're messing with the FP to SB ratio so much lately to see how much extra capacity they can "create" in order to sell. I wouldn't be surprised if they take a chunk out of the current FP capacity and charge for it, whether directly, by hotel level, or both. I just can't see them holding back the prebooking aspect from anyone in the long run. That is vital for Disney IMO.

They sort of have created a way to pay for prebooking for offsite...booking a hotel room for one night.

I agree with your last paragraph. I think they are still trying to see if they can sell extra FPs or connect them to hotel stays. I think the MK test where they gave out 4 back in the summer was part of that, from a technical sense.

 

[dfb]

When you reserve FP+ ahead what options do you have? Can you decline to use FP+? Can you pick and choose times? ...and if so what is the availability like?

I think I will continue to go at rope drop ride attractions I like, standby & single rider lines, for multi rides before heavy crowds (??) and then have my FP+ scheduled in quick succession following starting at 10 or 11 depending on crowds. Can you schedule FP+s in close order of each other or do they make you spread them out during the day.

I've seen a number of comments on this thread "the why of FP+" being to keep you in the park longer. From the comments, positive or negative, I haven't seen anything that would keep me in the parks longer. So I was wondering if I had the option to schedule FPs mid-early part of the day?

 

[delmar411]

When you reserve FP+ ahead what options do you have? Can you decline to use FP+? Can you pick and choose times? ...and if so what is the availability like?

I think I will continue to go at rope drop ride attractions I like, standby & single rider lines, for multi rides before heavy crowds (??) and then have my FP+ scheduled in quick succession following starting at 10 or 11 depending on crowds. Can you schedule FP+s in close order of each other or do they make you spread them out during the day.

I've seen a number of comments on this thread "the why of FP+" being to keep you in the park longer. From the comments, positive or negative, I haven't seen anything that would keep me in the parks longer. So I was wondering if I had the option to schedule FPs mid-early part of the day?

If you don't use FP+ then you just go standby. There isn't anything else to use.

You can schedule one per hour. So you could do 10-11,11-12,12-1 and you can put them at whatever times you like.

 

[Laketravis]

Reasons?

All of the reasons can be summed up in two words:

"Yield Management"

 

[JanaDee]

Hey I'll accept that I suppose. I don't however feel that Disney owes me anything per se. I do feel however that having perks to staying onsite draws me to stay onsite.

EDIT: I thought I quoted your comment about me being entitled. This references that.

That was a joke. The word "entitled" is thrown around all the time when anything close to what you said is posted. So I was trying to be funny.

I'll stop trying to be funny.

 

[dfb]

If you don't use FP+ then you just go standby. There isn't anything else to use.

You can schedule one per hour. So you could do 10-11,11-12,12-1 and you can put them at whatever times you like.

Thanks

Any idea what the availability has been like? I know it will vary but in general terms booking 60 days out what do you think chances of availability would be to schedule 3 FP+ an hour apart about mid day. Have you seen enough feedback to determine?

 

[delmar411]

Thanks

Any idea what the availability has been like? I know it will vary but in general terms booking 60 days out what do you think chances of availability would be to schedule 3 FP+ an hour apart about mid day. Have you seen enough feedback to determine?

I book morning of or mid-morning of and have no issues getting what I want within a 3hr window. It's when we decide around lunchtime that we find a lot of Unavailability for the rides we want. So yeah 60days out is no problem!

 

[bohannonb]

Honestly I think it is in order to control more crowd management. I also think its because they are gearing it more towards the once in a lifetime visitors, this allows them (ones who take 8-14 day vacations) the ability to do all of the major attractions. I believe all of the nay-sayers will eventually conform and then LOVE fp+ as with anything new its going to take time to workout all of the bugs and make it awesome! I have never been during the summer months, but I think its safe to assume that trying to obtain a normal fp was a challenge for the bigger rides or TSMM (which ALWAYS ran out of fp even in the 'dead' season).

 

[delmar411]

Honestly I think it is in order to control more crowd management. I also think its because they are gearing it more towards the once in a lifetime visitors, this allows them (ones who take 8-14 day vacations) the ability to do all of the major attractions. I believe all of the nay-sayers will eventually conform and then LOVE fp+ as with anything new its going to take time to workout all of the bugs and make it awesome! I have never been during the summer months, but I think its safe to assume that trying to obtain a normal fp was a challenge for the bigger rides or TSMM (which ALWAYS ran out of fp even in the 'dead' season).

Actually it has never been a problem to get FPs during most any seasons, of course the low capacity/high demand rides had less spots available but it is even worse now.

I like that I can pick rides and go to the park for a few hours and then go home. I don't like certain limitations and issues that we run into since we have some with bands and some without and no way to mesh FPs together. Hopefully that gets dealt with soon but for the time being, it is a real problem with no solution from Disney.

 

[JimmyV]

Actually it has never been a problem to get FPs during most any seasons, of course the low capacity/high demand rides had less spots available but it is even worse now.

I guess it depends on how you define "never been a problem". TSM FPs were often gone by 10:30-11:00. Sometimes earlier.

While it is never a good idea to make drastic across the board changes to address a single anomaly, the FP+ system is Disney's way of telling us all that they would like us to slow down, smell the roses, and enjoy more of what WDW has to offer. In the past, if one wanted to go have breakfast at the Castle, and then leisurely hop over to DHS for the remainder of the day, one could do that, but at the expense of riding TSM SB with a 90 minute wait. Getting a FP was out of the question. People had a choice: Arrive early and "beat the system" as it pertained to TSM, or enjoy other adventures in the morning and arrive at DHS at their leisure knowing that TSM was probably not going to happen. Disney doesn't want guests to have to make that Draconian choice, so it set up FP+ so that people can "have it all". They can have breakfast with Princesses in a Castle at 8:30 and still ride TSM with minimal wait at 2:00. So to that extent, FP+ is a huge positive, if that is the way you like to tour. As countless threads have pointed out, there are many people who do not tour that way, and their style is being cramped. Personally, having visited WDW under the New World Order during a time when the parks were at levels 7-9, I think that Disney has beaten the commando out of me. We used all of our guile and decades of knowledge to work around the obstacles that FP+ put in front of us, but in the end, I think I have concluded that next time we will plan to stay longer, do less each day, and slow down. I think this is exactly what Disney wants us to do. But the trade off is that we will go less often if we are to stay longer, so I am not sure if anyone is winning here.

 

[faneuil]

...the FP+ system is Disney's way of telling us all that they would like us to slow down, smell the roses, and enjoy more of what WDW has to offer.

I can be a bit of a cynic, so I think it's more Disney's way of telling us all they would like us to buy more turkey legs, and spend more in the Emporium. Cause you don't have to run to the next attraction and miss that gift shop.

Honestly though, I do think they want people to be able to take things a little slower and not be so commando - unless of course, you want to.

 

[JimmyV]

I can be a bit of a cynic, so I think it's more Disney's way of telling us all they would like us to buy more turkey legs, and spend more in the Emporium. Cause you don't have to run to the next attraction and miss that gift shop.

Honestly though, I do think they want people to be able to take things a little slower and not be so commando - unless of course, you want to.

I don't think there is really any difference between "buy more turkey legs, and spend more in the Emporium" and "slow down, smell the roses, and enjoy more of what WDW has to offer". Just in the way one views and phrases it!

As a long-time visitor who has all the Disney paraphenalia he needs, I am not sure that their strategy of having me visit parks at a more leisurely pace is going to result in a net gain financially. If I take two full days to see Epcot and FP Soarin' on one day and TT on the other, conceding that I will not do both on the same day, the added time that I "found" by not waiting in a long SB line for the attraction that I skipped is likely going to be spent at the Living Seas watching fish, or at Innoventions exploring things that I normally race by, or playing some of the video games at the pavilion ride exits at Mission Space, Spaceship Earth, Test Track, etc. My credit card only has so much limit left, so making me slow down can't make me spend more money. I love to look at the "Dale" sweaters in Norway. But no amount of extra time is going to make me plop down $400 for one. First time visitors, however, may fall into the Emporium trap.

 

[clsteve]

I don't think there is really any difference between "buy more turkey legs, and spend more in the Emporium" and "slow down, smell the roses, and enjoy more of what WDW has to offer". Just in the way one views and phrases it!

As a long-time visitor who has all the Disney paraphenalia he needs, I am not sure that their strategy of having me visit parks at a more leisurely pace is going to result in a net gain financially. If I take two full days to see Epcot and FP Soarin' on one day and TT on the other, conceding that I will not do both on the same day, the added time that I "found" by not waiting in a long SB line for the attraction that I skipped is likely going to be spent at the Living Seas watching fish, or at Innoventions exploring things that I normally race by, or playing some of the video games at the pavilion ride exits at Mission Space, Spaceship Earth, Test Track, etc. My credit card only has so much limit left, so making me slow down can't make me spend more money. I love to look at the "Dale" sweaters in Norway. But no amount of extra time is going to make me plop down $400 for one. First time visitors, however, may fall into the Emporium trap.

Yep, first-timers still have all those Mickey Ears and Cinderella's Castle snow globes to buy. If FP+ get's them to stay an extra day or 2 - that's what Disney's hoping and they've those MB's that are supposed to make the buying that much easier....

 

[ArwenMarie]

While it is never a good idea to make drastic across the board changes to address a single anomaly, the FP+ system is Disney's way of telling us all that they would like us to slow down, smell the roses, and enjoy more of what WDW has to offer.

Exactly. And that includes the resorts, hence the resort commercials. They want you to see the resorts as part of the whole Disney experience, not just somewhere you stay while you tour the parks commando.

Really, they want their customers to spend less time riding headliners, and more time doing everything (anything?) else. But onsite of course.

 

[faneuil]

My credit card only has so much limit left, so making me slow down can't make me spend more money. I love to look at the "Dale" sweaters in Norway. But no amount of extra time is going to make me plop down $400 for one. First time visitors, however, may fall into the Emporium trap.

I think that's what FP+ is all about though. First time, once-in-a-lifetime visitors. They know ppl who frequent the parks often know the system, and ways to beat the system.

People who are on a trip of a lifetime are probably more likely to overspend - which is something any industry is banking on.

I love the Dale sweaters too. And Helly Hansen. Luckily, living in Florida means I'll never wear it, so I don't buy.

 

[Donut23]

I can foresee Disney charging for FastPasses. However, the issue is that there is a finite number of people that can go through an attraction every hour. If they charge for them, they have to put a cap on FastPasses that can be sold. The demand will be much higher than the supply. We're already seeing that now with FP lines that are longer due to a larger number being released. In a sense, it would eliminate the SB line and make everyone pay.

I just can't see how it would work to charge extra in that way.

You are right! There must be a cap to control numbers sold. That will give these extra FPs an inflated value. "Buy your extra Fastpasses for each day of your trip before they are Sold Out". Disney can totally control how many they sell for each day.

Disney Marketing will go NUTZ with this one! The newest, biggest incentive to stay at a Disney resort hotel.

I can see it now. It will be like the Disney Vera Bradley Bags. "Investors" will come in and buy up blocks of Fastpasses and sell them on EBAY. Facebook pages will be filled with people listing days they need Fastpasses for. All you need is a Disney hotel reservation! The poor Campground. It will be sold out for Christmas Day but it will be all EBAY Fastpass sellers. The campground will be empty!


It will be easier to run than reserving an ADR. You simply enter your reservation number and choose the calendar date you want to buy extra Fastpasses for. Oh yes, don't forget that credit card number. Don't wait too long. They could sell out!

What do you think? 60 days out....then the planners can add these extras to their calendars each day.

 

[redrosesix]

Books could be written.....

The cynic in me believes that FP+ is a subtle way to ensure that guests who come to Central Florida for 7 or 8 days use all of those days (or maybe all but one of those days) to go to WDW instead of 4 days at WDW, two days at US and a day at SW. By way of example, in the past, (and I admit that I am making up numbers here), 95% of all Epcot guests who met the height requirements and who did not shy away from thrill rides, experienced both Soarin' and Test Track in the same day. By tiering those attractions, they have made it more likely than before that people will visit Epcot over the course of two days and get a FP for one attraction on one day, and a FP for the other attraction on the second day. Whereas people might have squeezed all of Epcot into a single day before, it has become very hard to do that now unless you are a RD person. Arrive at 9:30 with a FP for one of those attractions and you are all but assured of waiting in a 70 minute line for the other. Many people will do that. But many others will opt for the FP strategy and do Epcot twice instead of once. The FP+ system has made it such that unless you are a dawn 'til midnight commando, it will take you 6+ days to do and see everything you want to at all four parks unless you go when the crowd levels are 1-4. I do not think that it can be debated that Disney does not want you spending four days at WDW and three days elsewhere. They want you for six or even seven days. I think that they have devised a strategy to make it more likely that you will a) stay on site, and b) spend most of your time at their parks and restaurants. Just a theory.

I actually don't think data mining has much to do with it at all. The data that they want is the "where are you now, where have you been, what do you like to do, where are you going, what do you spend money on", etc. That can be collected via Magic Bands. And it isn't collected from offsite guests who still use plastic admission cards. The only data that they are mining from FP usage is what rides you FP'ed. That could just as easily be derived from the old system. Each KTTK card was unique and once it was slipped into the old FP machines, they would have gotten the same data that they are getting now. I agree 100% that the NextGen system is geared toward data mining. But I don't think that things like "no hopping" and "no second FPs for the same attraction" have anything to do with data mining. I think the new FP rules are designed to make you spend more time at WDW. Period.

ITA with both of these.

1. Data mining. Huge potential here.

2. I truly believe it is a HUGE improvement for the "average" visitor. Most people don't go to WDW every year, or even every 5 or 10 years. Many people will go once or twice in their lifetime. They don't plan their ride times and dinner reservations 180 days in advance, and they dont know how important it is to walk around the park collecting little tickets that cant be used until several hours later. They may show up to HS at 10:00 only to discover a 2 hour wait for Toy Story and that all the fast passed are gone. I can't tell you how many people I know who have gone when it was crowded and simply said "never again".

This is sooooo much easier for a "casual visitor" to take advantage of than the old system (which I've heard it said many people didn't even use to begin with). In the end, the few super planners like us will ride a few less attractions, but nearly everyone else will ride a few more. After 2 days at MK they've guaranteed themselves the chance to ride all the headline attractions, whether they show up for RD or not. That wasn't the case with the old system.

The old system was great for planners like us... Very marginal for everyone else.

I didn't meet anyone on our last trip that actually liked the system the way it is working, although I met a lot of people who are annoyed by it and some who were downright angry about it. The casual visitors seemed very ill-prepared to deal with it. Some had planned their FP's in advance, some figured it out when they arrived and got the Concierge to help them and some waited til they got to the kiosks. The worst-off were the ones who had booked through travel agents since they had done no research on their own and didn't get any emails from Disney. So I don't think it will improve the experience of all casual visitors ie. the ones who complain about late busses, get lost on their way to the parks if they drive, or incorrectly time their ADRs to coincide with their FPs -- especially when they're in 2 different parks... because wdw actually has 4 parks and several resorts with restaurants, and they're just not walking distance from each other.

 

[PoshMom]

ok I know this is a dumb question but I have to ask: what does commando mean? is this another way of saying as fast and furious as you can through the parks??