the why behind fastpass+

[LSUfan4444]

most on these boards

It is always important to remember the people on these boards are in the VERY LARGE minority as it relates to Disney guests. They can sometimes be a loud minority, but they are a minority nonetheless.

 

[JimmyV]

2. I truly believe it is a HUGE improvement for the "average" visitor. Most people don't go to WDW every year, or even every 5 or 10 years. Many people will go once or twice in their lifetime. They don't plan their ride times and dinner reservations 180 days in advance, and they dont know how important it is to walk around the park collecting little tickets that cant be used until several hours later. They may show up to HS at 10:00 only to discover a 2 hour wait for Toy Story and that all the fast passed are gone. I can't tell you how many people I know who have gone when it was crowded and simply said "never again".

This is sooooo much easier for a "casual visitor" to take advantage of than the old system (which I've heard it said many people didn't even use to begin with). In the end, the few super planners like us will ride a few less attractions, but nearly everyone else will ride a few more. After 2 days at MK they've guaranteed themselves the chance to ride all the headline attractions, whether they show up for RD or not. That wasn't the case with the old system.

The old system was great for planners like us... Very marginal for everyone else.

I think this is true, but only a temporary fix. When the triple option was introduced, it worked. And then defenses schemed against it. When the "run and shoot" was introduced, it worked. Then defenses schemed against it. When the 3-4 was the defense in vogue, it worked, then offenses schemed against it. And so on. The super planners are still going to have the upper hand once they learn to game the system. That visitor that you describe who shows up at DHS at 10:00 and gets shut out of TSM , provided he still does no planning, may find in the near future that when he shows up now at 10:00 that all the FP+ times are gone except for the hour that he was planning to have dinner. Better, for sure. But not the panacea that some think. The benefit to the "casual visitor" comes only if that visitor is staying on site, and buys into the system to pre-book his FP+s. But if he is truly a casual visitor, he may do neither of these things. And I suspect that the less-than-vigilant are going to be almost as disappointed in the future as they are now once the cognescenti begin to occupy the field. Just like ADRs. Moving the date back to 180 days was supposed to fix the problems. Tell that to the guest who tries to book Be Our Guest 50 days out. You still have to be somewhat of a planner to reap the benefits.

In the end, I think you are correct though. We just have to wait to see if there is a payoff. I think that Disney was well aware of the "We went last year and we're never going back" syndrome. I hear sooooo much of that lately.

 

[GotLabradors]

Books could be written.....

The cynic in me believes that FP+ is a subtle way to ensure that guests who come to Central Florida for 7 or 8 days use all of those days (or maybe all but one of those days) to go to WDW instead of 4 days at WDW, two days at US and a day at SW. By way of example, in the past, (and I admit that I am making up numbers here), 95% of all Epcot guests who met the height requirements and who did not shy away from thrill rides, experienced both Soarin' and Test Track in the same day. By tiering those attractions, they have made it more likely than before that people will visit Epcot over the course of two days and get a FP for one attraction on one day, and a FP for the other attraction on the second day. Whereas people might have squeezed all of Epcot into a single day before, it has become very hard to do that now unless you are a RD person. Arrive at 9:30 with a FP for one of those attractions and you are all but assured of waiting in a 70 minute line for the other. Many people will do that. But many others will opt for the FP strategy and do Epcot twice instead of once. The FP+ system has made it such that unless you are a dawn 'til midnight commando, it will take you 6+ days to do and see everything you want to at all four parks unless you go when the crowd levels are 1-4. I do not think that it can be debated that Disney does not want you spending four days at WDW and three days elsewhere. They want you for six or even seven days. I think that they have devised a strategy to make it more likely that you will a) stay on site, and b) spend most of your time at their parks and restaurants. Just a theory.

This may also up the sales of park hopper tickets? Finish out a park in a day and a half and then head for dinner/show at a different park.

 

[jeneric997]

Satisfaction with legacy FP has nothing to do with why they implemented all of MM+. The MBs are collecting data and tracking you in the park. By having to make FP+ in advance you have to stay onsite and have a park ticket before you leave home. Disney thinks you are now less likely to stray to other parks.

Collecting data on FP+ could be use to upsell certain experiences- charge to see the princesses, or for a special viewing area for fireworks (they already do this with the dessert party).

They are already using the tracking on the bands to sell you photos of the rides, sending them to your email.

The stories of how convenient it is to use the MBs for charging- maybe people spend more?

Maybe their endgame was guests will feel more personalized magic, while they make more money?

 

[JimmyV]

It is always important to remember the people on these boards are in the VERY LARGE minority as it relates to Disney guests. They can sometimes be a loud minority, but they are a minority nonetheless.

Again, I just don't see this as being relevant. People who buy, collect and drink First Growth Bordeaux are a "VERY LARGE minority" of wine consumers. But if I wanted to know how "the public" feels about price increases of First Growth Bordeaux in less than stellar vintages, would I ask that question on Robert Parker's chat board or at my local grocery store where people are buying Yellow Tail to drink tonight? Opinion follows passion. Just for grins and giggles, if the "average" Disney guest was asked what they thought about FP- and their choices were:

• a. Strongly liked it
• b. Somewhat liked it
• c. Indifferent
• d. Somewhat disliked it
• e. Strongly disliked it

What do you think the result would be? The OP was simply opining that most people seemed to like FP-. Unless you think the answer to the question above is "d" or "e", then I think you'd have to agree with the original premise.

 

[Ted C]

Well I can tell you what you don't want if you're Disney, and that's what you saw on your trip recently. Not only is the beautiful feel of the parks being disrupted, but the poor CM's have to hate going to work. And this is what messes with their "core", very scary implications... Whatever they do the stupid thing has to work right. That's my issue with it. You can't ruin people's days, not for the kind of monies they're charging. If thye can get FP+ to truly work under load then it will be fine. My bet is they opened Pandora's Box and they can't. Its simply beyond the stability of the computers they're using.

 

[Golf4283]

Again, I just don't see this as being relevant. People who buy, collect and drink First Growth Bordeaux are a "VERY LARGE minority" of wine consumers. But if I wanted to know how "the public" feels about price increases of First Growth Bordeaux in less than stellar vintages, would I ask that question on Robert Parker's chat board or at my local grocery store where people are buying Yellow Tail to drink tonight? Opinion follows passion. Just for grins and giggles, if the "average" Disney guest was asked what they thought about FP- and their choices were:

• a. Strongly liked it
• b. Somewhat liked it
• c. Indifferent
• d. Somewhat disliked it
• e. Strongly disliked it

What do you think the result would be? The OP was simply opining that most people seemed to like FP-. Unless you think the answer to the question above is "d" or "e", then I think you'd have to agree with the original premise.

My opinion would be that they would answer that they didn't know it was available to all guests. Didn't Disney just release data that said FP+ has increased the average fastpasses per day of guests in the parks. And yet most people on this board can easily pull 5-7 if they strategize it correctly.

The point is that the masses really didn't utilize the old system and Disney wants them to because they want them in the parks longer and to keep them longer to fill FP+ reservations, etc.

 

[White_Sox_Fan]

I think this is true, but only a temporary fix. When the triple option was introduced, it worked. And then defenses schemed against it. When the "run and shoot" was introduced, it worked. Then defenses schemed against it. When the 3-4 was the defense in vogue, it worked, then offenses schemed against it. And so on. The super planners are still going to have the upper hand once they learn to game the system. That visitor that you describe who shows up at DHS at 10:00 and gets shut out of TSM , provided he still does no planning, may find in the near future that when he shows up now at 10:00 that all the FP+ times are gone except for the hour that he was planning to have dinner. Better, for sure. But not the panacea that some think. The benefit to the "casual visitor" comes only if that visitor is staying on site, and buys into the system to pre-book his FP+s. But if he is truly a casual visitor, he may do neither of these things. And I suspect that the less-than-vigilant are going to be almost as disappointed in the future as they are now once the cognescenti begin to occupy the field. Just like ADRs. Moving the date back to 180 days was supposed to fix the problems. Tell that to the guest who tries to book Be Our Guest 50 days out. You still have to be somewhat of a planner to reap the benefits.

In the end, I think you are correct though. We just have to wait to see if there is a payoff. I think that Disney was well aware of the "We went last year and we're never going back" syndrome. I hear sooooo much of that lately.

I assume by "game the system" you mean use all the information we can gather to fully optimize touring within the confines of the system and not something more underhanded.

We need to separate the FP+ from the magic bands. Certainly all the data collection that Disney may want can be done without the FP+ portion. I always felt that Disney was going to use it as a tool to get more people to stay onsite by either allowing only on-site guest to pre-book or giving them more FP's or by some other method that would make it more attractive to stay onsite.

 

[JanaDee]

What you're failing to realize is that the membership of this board consists of die-hard fans. Lots of people have specific park plans on a day to day basis that revolved around the fastpass system and standby lines in a very intricate ballet. The masses are what Disney is catering towards with this system.

Please note that my comments are mostly, but not all, tongue in cheek. I am being honest when I say that this board is not indicative of the majority opinion. Granted we don't know how the majority feels and I'm not saying they love/hate it.

The internet masses have made their displeasure known regarding FP+. It isn't just this board, it is all over the internet (other WDW forums, Trip Advisor, FB, etc).

 

[Love Tink]

My opinion would be that they would replay that they didn't know it was available to all guests. Didn't Disney just release data that said FP+ has increased the average fastpasses per day of guests in the parks. And yet most people on this board can easily pull 5-7 if they strategize it correctly.

The point is that the masses really didn't utilize the old system and Disney wants them to because they want them in the parks longer and to keep them longer to fill FP+ reservations, etc.

Perhaps the overall usage numbers have increased because now every user of FP+ is required to have 3 FP. We've wondered why they make you take FP that you don't even want...well, making every single person takes 3 makes those usage numbers look really good.

We were FP- super users and there were still days when we went in the off season and were at the right park and ended up using only 1 or 2 FP.

I see people assert on here often that FP- wasn't used by most guests and I just don't think it is true. I think more guests used it than not. You don't have to be someone who enjoys posting on the Disboards to be someone who researches your vacation or asks questions.

 

[ktlm]

Here is the patent application for the patent Disney obtained for FP+. I think it answers some questions as to the "why" which I think a large part of is to funnel the guests through the parks they way they want them to go and to get them to spend more money in the shops. We found, FP+ had the exact opposite effect on us. I found that I spent less time in the shops than I wanted to because of FP+. FP+ had us running across the park which meant my shopping time was gone. Gone were the days of pulling a FP- in an area which kicked in within an hour to an hour and a half, and then spending the time going to the other attractions in the area and browsing the shops. I'm a shopper and one of the things I didn't like about FP+ when we used it was it cut into my shopping time.

Patent application:

http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph...srchnum.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=20130018661.PGNR.

(UPDATE: I don't know why the above link is not working, but it will come up if you google: guest experience management system and method us patent & trademark office )

You can see that Disney wants to plan and anticipate the guests "route" through the park by directing them with FP+. I would also direct your attention down to pargraphs 48 to 52 of the patent. You will see that Disney was talking about applying "business rules" to the guest to plan their experience- such as widening time windows of FP+ for 1 day guests to maximize the time they spend in the parks, but narrowing the time windows for multiple day guests to "allow" the guest to return to their resort during the day. It talks about different rules being applied whether the guest spends 1 day, multiple days, or stays on property. It talks about different rules depending on how many people are in your party, the ages of the parties AND whether the guest has visited certain experiences in the past, whether past records indicate the guest wants to see certain characters at a specific area, eat at certain restaurants etc. (The way it talks about windows, it leads me to believe that there is a possibility that we will see a time element to FP at some point- instead of a pre-selected 3)

At paragraph 55, it talks about gathering information about the guest and applying business rules to create an "optimized schedule for the guest's visit- "rather than providing a generalized order of experiences to be visited by the guest, the business rules cause the illustrative scheduling element to create a routing for each experience area" In other words Disney wants to route people they way they want them to go, instead of letting them wander and explore the parks in their own way.

At paragraph 60, it talks about how they can apply one set of business rules to a guest group of 3 adult female friends and an additional set of rules to a family with 2 young children with grandparents. (In other words- they want the ability to tell you how many FP+ you can get or when you can schedule them based on who you are )

At paragraph 61, it specifically states that "the business rules applied and the guest strategy determined may depend at least in part on the goals of others besides the guest. For instance the goals of experience area and the owner of the experience area". In other words- Disney's goals. It gives an example of expanding the windows for a one day guest to "keep the guest at the park longer and creating schedules that place the guest near popular restaurants at mealtimes". It also gives the example of setting parameters that "ensure the guest's visit schedule does not cause the guest to enter a particular experience area until after the morning crowd has typically subsided" (An odd example- since in my experience the afternoon is when things get crowded and cause bottleneck, but in any event- it shows they are trying to control where you are in the park when)

(For those interested- tiering is mentioned in paragraph 81)

It certainly appears to me that this is about Disney monitoring and controlling where people are in the parks at any given period of time during the day. They are also accumulating info on you to use on your future trips.

Disney is clearly trying to "lock you in" to the schedule they want you to have. Honestly, I think whoever came up with the "lock in" commercials for FP+, may have privately had a little animosity toward the system and took their own private digs at it with the slogan- it feels like a wink to what Disney is really trying to do in my opinion. I also agree with the PP that the tiering isn't just for crowd control that day- it is to try to get you to those parks on more than one day. Universal takes some business- okay- we'll make it where people can't FP both Test Track and Soarin on the same day and if they don't want to stand in a huge line for one of them and they like them enough- maybe we can get a 2nd day out of them.

 

[surferdave]

My opinion would be that they would answer that they didn't know it was available to all guests. Didn't Disney just release data that said FP+ has increased the average fastpasses per day of guests in the parks. And yet most people on this board can easily pull 5-7 if they strategize it correctly.

The point is that the masses really didn't utilize the old system and Disney wants them to because they want them in the parks longer and to keep them longer to fill FP+ reservations, etc.

That's deceptive of Disney to say that. They didn't market FP- to most customers, but they have committed massive resources to ensuring that everyone is using FP+. I'm guessing that if they mailed a pretty box with Mrs. Incredible on it to every resort guest they would have known about FP-.

 

[faneuil]

The stories of how convenient it is to use the MBs for charging- maybe people spend more?

This is taken straight out of the cruise line industry playbook. Accept no cash, require everyone to use their room key to charge everything, and watch people's spending habits. The average tourist does spend more when he/she doesn't see the green disappear from the wallet.

Add to that the trend many of my friends currently follow of not keeping receipts, and people don't even remember what they spent where.

 

[Golf4283]

The internet masses have made their displeasure known regarding FP+. It isn't just this board, it is all over the internet (other WDW forums, Trip Advisor, FB, etc).

Once again this is just a made up statistic. The "internet masses" aren't indicative of the entire customer base of the WDW resort. I just can't believe you unless you come up with some hard numbers on it. I'm not being argumentative (angrily) at all by the way I'm just stating my opinion on the matter.

 

[Ted C]

And this is exactly why it will likely backfire and won't work. There is no way you can, or should you, control what people do. This is really creepy.

Great post on the patent post by the way, brilliant

 

[JimmyV]

I assume by "game the system" you mean use all the information we can gather to fully optimize touring within the confines of the system and not something more underhanded.

Correct. For example, ask people here what the best strategy is for using FP+ and many will tell you that you should opt for afternoon time slots and use the mornings to ride SB. But when we were there last week, we witnessed people using FPs in the first 20 minutes of park opening every single day. They probably didn't know any better. The kiosk (or home computer) probably gave them a "best option" choice and they took it. So the super planner gets to ride Soarin' at park opening in the SB line and again at 3:00 when the line is 90 minutes. The uninformed burned their Tier 1 FP at Soarin' at 9:05 and can't ride again without a 90 minute wait. Same system. Two different results. As the super planners use up all the best time slots, (afternoon, not during dinner time, etc.) the non-planners will be left with lesser options. So non-planners will always be a bit "behind" if you will. We're just not far enough into the system's usage to know how this will all play out.

 

[JanaDee]

Once again this is just a made up statistic. The "internet masses" aren't indicative of the entire customer base of the WDW resort. I just can't believe you unless you come up with some hard numbers on it. I'm not being argumentative (angrily) at all by the way I'm just stating my opinion on the matter.

I need hard numbers to back up my opinion people don't like FP+? I can read, those are my "hard numbers".

 

[faneuil]

Once again this is just a made up statistic. The "internet masses" aren't indicative of the entire customer base of the WDW resort. I just can't believe you unless you come up with some hard numbers on it. I'm not being argumentative (angrily) at all by the way I'm just stating my opinion on the matter.

I think all you have to do is stand around a FP+ kiosk for 20 minutes and listen to the displeasure and the frustrated cast members. People are a bit confused. But I think that's just time before a group "gets it". It appears that some cast members know a lot, and others have been told as little as possible. But that's standard operating procedure at WDW.

I was someone who pulled as many FP- as I could. One day in December, I pulled 8 FP- for TofT, before I simply got tired for riding it, and stopped. Not ever going to happen again.

Next time to Studios, FP+ was the only option. It was confusing and frustrating. The cast member didn't understand my party wanted FP+ to certain attractions, and I wanted FP+ to others. We all did get to do what we wanted, except TSM, but that was our fault getting into the park at 10:30.

I am hoping, in the very near future, AP holders who have zero need to stay on property (I live 10 miles away), will be able to pre-book FP+. It would be really helpful for when we're bringing visitors into the park, and it would give Disney some great data that lets them know when local AP holders visit, and what they do.

 

[JimmyV]

My opinion would be that they would answer that they didn't know it was available to all guests.

That is not one of the options. We are talking about a binary equation here. Did most people like or dislike FP-? The OP said "like" and was called out for it. If it is not "like" then it has to be "dislike". But per the poll question I posited, "indifferent" is also an option. If you want to say that "I didn't know about it" equates to "Indifferent", then that works. But that doesn't count in the "dislike" category. So based on your opinion, you would say that the vast majority of guests did not dislike FP-. Fair enough.

 

[surferdave]

Why should we have to provide hard numbers? Disney won't even do that for their stockholders.