The Vaccine Discussion Thread

[jane01jp]

Just added Texas and New Mexico. Almost 1,800 miles (I think that's about 3,000 kilometers). No masks.

Wow. I assume you don't bother with a seat belt either, correct? There's still potential to die either way, so really what's the point?
[/QUOTE]
No. I wear seat belts all of the time. They work.

 

[jane01jp]

A mask doesn't benefit you, it benefits everyone around you in case you have covid but don't yet know it. There are several days until someone who has been exposed starts showing symptoms (aka incubation period). By then it's too late to say you're sorry to all the people you have exposed.

Not wearing a mask doesn't say, "I don't care if I get covid", it says "I don't care if I give you covid."
Nice. Pat yourself on the back.

Believe it or not, I've heard all of this. I just think the costs of forcing people who are not known to be sick to wear masks outweigh the benefits.

 

[GoofyDisneyDaddy]

Wow. I assume you don't bother with a seat belt either, correct? There's still potential to die either way, so really what's the point?

Actually, this is a poor analogy, b/c the seatbelt is to protect the individual themselves. Here, they are instead showing a reckless disregard for the lives of others. And are too selfish to care about getting our kids back in school. Or of getting cruising restarted...

 

[jane01jp]

Actually, this is a poor analogy, b/c the seatbelt is to protect the individual themselves. Here, they are instead showing a reckless disregard for the lives of others. And are too selfish to care about getting our kids back in school. Or of getting cruising restarted...

Again, this is assuming that we can understand the motives of others.

 

[GoofyDisneyDaddy]

Again, this is assuming that we can understand the motives of others.

Your motive is immaterial. Your actions demonstrate (1) a reckless disregard for the lives of others and (2) are the direct and proximate cause for the items I listed.

 

[jane01jp]

BTW, there are huge state difference in mask wearing that I've observed along the way. The least mask wearing state seemed to be Oklahoma.

 

[cgolf]

And be the most active on all of the Covid related threads I have seen on here. How they haven't gotten in trouble with the mods amazes me. Must be good at walking a fine line, or lucky (for sure for not picking up the virus yet).

According to the rules, we are not supposed to attack one another personally. If anything, I have been on the receiving end of attacks.
[/QUOTE]

Also about being on topic. My brief foray into carrying capacity of the planet while on topic of the original post of another thread, I believe yours, may have helped lead to the eventual closing of the thread because of assumptions people made of my intent of the post and it wasn't on topic to cruises even though on topic to original thread. I will admit that was an awkward thread to reply to.

I personally feel that you can ultimately make a choice, I do disagree with it, I just would be careful how you post that information. It seems that you are trying to get people to react strongly, instead of having a discussion about it.

I realize that while we may disagree about this I am sure there are plenty of things that we all agree on. The mask thing just is a very touchy subject for many, I just am not into the name calling or attacking, at least never on purpose.

 

[GoofyDisneyDaddy]

Did we all wear masks in flu seasons past? Was it reckless disregard? I have never seen anyone honestly try to answer that question, just revert to sound bites they have about the motivations of people they don't know.

I'm not going to change your mind or argue with your strawmen. I don't care whether your motives are to intentionally infect as many people as possible or demonstrate that America stands for FREEDOM while you flaunt the rules and regulations.

Top scientists have stated, repeatedly, that wearing masks are the best way to protect others from the disease that we may not know whether or not we are carrying and to contain its spread. I'm just a Goofy Daddy on the internet that loves and Disney and wants my kids back in school. That will not happen until as a nation, we stop acting selfishly and instead do our best to protect one another. I'd like to go cruising again too, but the selfish acts of many have made that unlikely for quite some time...

 

[jane01jp]

I'm not going to change your mind or argue with your strawmen. I don't care whether your motives are to intentionally infect as many people as possible or demonstrate that America stands for FREEDOM while you flaunt the rules and regulations.

Top scientists have stated, repeatedly, that wearing masks are the best way to protect others from the disease that we may not know whether or not we are carrying and to contain its spread. I'm just a Goofy Daddy on the internet that loves and Disney and wants my kids back in school. That will not happen until as a nation, we stop acting selfishly and instead do our best to protect one another. I'd like to go cruising again too, but the selfish acts of many have made that unlikely for quite some time...

With all due respect, there are lots of issues besides safety involved in whether our kids go back to school. We will return to normal when the majority of people are no longer afraid. The world's forces appear to be aligned in lockstep to promote fear at this point. It has worked.

BTW, I saw a pleasant-looking family in Tennessee in what appeared to be Mennonite dress. They were not wearing masks in an indoor area that required them.

 

[Mousequake]

Did we all wear masks in flu seasons past? Was it reckless disregard? I have never seen anyone honestly try to answer that question, just revert to sound bites they have about the motivations of people they don't know.

This is not the flu. It spreads differently. It's an irrelevant comparison.

 

[jane01jp]

This is not the flu. It spreads differently. It's an irrelevant comparison.

But, we're told that flu is not prolific this year because of masks and social distancing. If that is true, then maybe we could have prevented hundreds of thousands of deaths over the years. But, we didn't.

 

[sabrecmc]

Getting back to vaccines, since the J&J vaccine data is expected next week, and that is single dose and regular refrigeration, that seems to bode really well moving forward. The company said they expected to be able to meet delivery targets. Reuters Article on J&J Vaccine

I'm optimistic about things, though I do expect we will have to move our July 2, 2021 cruise. That's probably just too soon, especially since who knows when they will vaccinate young people and kids. But, it does give me a lot of hope for the fall and next year.

 

[Chuck S]

It will be interesting to see how effective the J&J vaccine is compared to the others. I hope it is highly effective.

 

[belle032]

It's one thing to quietly "express your freedom" of not wearing a mask. It's another to track and report on your mask-less roadtrip across the country on a very public message board (that has really nothing to do with masks and/or roadtrips) and not expect any type of backlash or judgement. You do you. But you don't need to flaunt it or "try to educate others on where and how you can get away with not wearing a mask" here on a Disney Cruising forum. Not exactly the most appropriate place.

Back to cruising - I would be fine with being vaccinated for a cruise, I would just hope I could receive both doses in time. We only have our Alaskan sailing booked for September of this year and I would love to be vaccinated by then. However, I think Canada might have other ideas. So we're fully ready to postpone. And I'm consoling myself with planning a WDW trip.

 

[cgolf]

It will be interesting to see how effective the J&J vaccine is compared to the others. I hope it is highly effective.

As I stated somewhere in here I hope they test it against the mutations as well to see if it holds up. I need to do some reading on the non mRNA vaccines to see how they work. It seems so far off for us that I haven’t researched it yet, because we may get one that is unavailable yet. Because my company supports the Covid testing market I have done a fair amount of research on it early including the MIT course which had a lecture on the moderna vaccine.

 

[brentm77]

Delete. Missed the "non" in the above post.

 

[Joe Brig]

Fauci is now recommending 2 masks. Is everybody down for that?

I thought you were joking, sadly you are not. Looking at the data, I don't see a huge difference in states that require masks vs those that do not. Seems to make no difference.

Hopefully the vaccine will reduce the rates so much that we can stop talking about masks and get back to cruising.

 

[DCLMP]

But, we're told that flu is not prolific this year because of masks and social distancing. If that is true, then maybe we could have prevented hundreds of thousands of deaths over the years. But, we didn't.

Don’t give them any ideas or we’ll be wearing masks every flu season.

 

[cgolf]

Don’t give them any ideas or we’ll be wearing masks every flu season.

I think there is a razor edge line with this. Masks and sanitizer are definitely are helping now, but if we continue to suppress our immune systems we may ending being sick more often. I just got a major ear infection, never had one in my life. Thankfully the drops work quickly, as I now know why kids are cranky when they have an ear infection. I am not saying we don't need masks now, we do, just speaking of future. Underlined last sentence so some don't use this post against me later saying I said something I didn't.

So they may need to pick and choose when we wear them. There is no perfect answer. Just like with drug and vaccine trials, some deaths are expected, sadly its a case of the cure is better than the disease. I believe there was a media report when people died after one of the vaccines and the response was this was not unexpected. I worked in the drug testing realm briefly years ago and it can be an eye opener, especially the cost of testing and the failure rate of drugs after many millions were invested.

 

[Intr3pid]

Yeah, but I didn't see much science. I saw a lot of terms like "might" and "common sense." If it's common sense, why didn't we all do it in flu seasons past?

Believe it or not, I've heard all of this. I just think the costs of forcing people who are not known to be sick to wear masks outweigh the benefits.

Did we all wear masks in flu seasons past? Was it reckless disregard? I have never seen anyone honestly try to answer that question, just revert to sound bites they have about the motivations of people they don't know.

But, we're told that flu is not prolific this year because of masks and social distancing. If that is true, then maybe we could have prevented hundreds of thousands of deaths over the years. But, we didn't.

Flu has long-tested vaccines. Flu has treatments. COVID has nothing much. It transmits 4.5 times more than the flu does. It was also responsible for nearly 400,000 excess deaths in the US alone in 2020.

Anyone justifying being reckless with COVID based on how they handled the flu either doesn't do much reading - or would also jump from the second floor of their apartment because they were able to jump into the pool last time.

Respectfully, would you please discuss your roadtrip report to a new thread? I recommend the community or TR forums. You will also gain a much bigger audience - and not just a bunch of science nuts and those obsessed with cruising.