The "Terrible Two's" are bad, But the "Horrible Three's" are WORSE!

[Grendalynn]

You know - I thought I was was pretty on top of my parenting skills... We/I watch what my kids eat, they get minimal soda and sugar/candy, we eat many healthy family meals, We/I monitor most all things that they experience and watch on TV or at the movies. We/I am strict about talking back, saying please and thank you, following directions and "doing as you are told". We/I am a HUGE advocate of my sons good manners and politness to others.... Especially to their parents.

However: DS3 right now if giving me a run for my money!!!!! He is fresh, a bit rude and very defiant! He fights constantly with is older brother who is 7... I feellike I do nothing but yell and break up fights and arguments between them!! I am not sure what to do!!??

I have done the whole Super Nanny/Nanny 911 tricks that I have seen and thought were acceptable and suitable for our family's needs. I have even gone as far as using hot sauce (just the tinyest little bit - don't flame me - no different than a bar of soap) when they tested the limits with naughty words or language! (And they knew not to do it again!)

With all that said - DS3 is being a little monster! But then 10 minutes later he is loving and an angel again!!?? I would love to say that it is because of Baby#3 on the way, but we have never made a big deal out of the baby that would bend their/his nose out of shape. He is testing the limits and I am not quite sure what to do! He gets a reprecussion (sp?) for acting out and we address the situation when anything happens. We do not use idol threats and if we say something will happen because of something he does, 9 out of 10 times we follow through. There is no empty threats. I have to say that I am definitly the parents that is the disciplinarian; and even DH has been doing his fair share of punishments (addressing the issue, time out chair and/or "sibling mediation").

I am out of school/work during the summer and spend the most time with the boys, So there is little to no interatcion with other children right now. I canot blame his actions on kids at Pre-school.... I am getting to my wits end and am starting to feel out of control or that I am up against soemthing big here. Is there anyone out there that may have some words of wisdom for me? Thanks so much and I look forward to seeing the responces!

 

[mom2att]

I suggest reading "Raising Your Spirited Child" by Mary Sheedy Kurcinka. My ds #1 is a lot like you described, which was especially hard for me since my oldest (dd) was the perfect baby/child in comparison--I didn't know how easy I had it until ds came along! Anyway, ages 3 and 4 were by far the hardest, especially considering child #3 (another boy, but thankfully more like big sis than big bro) was born just 4 days after ds's third birthday. I have only read the book mentioned recently, but it really opened my eyes to a lot of ds's behaviors, and I wish I had read it when he was younger. He's almost 6 now, and things are much better, but he still has his moments. Also look into sensory sensitivities--these can have a huge impact on behavior ("The Sensory Sensitive Child" by Smith/Gouze is a good read). Best of luck--I feel your pain!

 

[tmarquez]

It's been my experience with DD (3.5) that she gets like that when she's bored. Maybe he is missing the interaction he had with other kids his age. Just a thought.

I am out of school/work during the summer and spend the most time with the boys, So there is little to no interatcion with other children right now. I canot blame his actions on kids at Pre-school.... :

 

[mamacatnv]

Just you wait the "F'ing 4's" are on the way.

I agree with the boredom scenario, when they are so used to a very active structured day with non stop activity, home can become tedious and thus the behavior outburst.

I liked the book by James Dobson "Dare to Discipline" it was an excellent source when my very strong willed DS was that age.
Now he is 16, 6'4", 240#'s and still afraid of me

Hang in there............

 

[nicolemomof4cuties]

Well, I know that I am probably going to be flamed but at least I am honest. My youngest ddaughter (I have 4 children ages ds7.5, dd5.5, dd4.5, and ds2.5.) has always had the most terrible attitude. OK maybe not ALWAYS but since she turned about 2.5. You name it and she has done it. One night at around 3am when ahe was about 3.5 she used my husbands acrylic paints (which by the way were so hidden away that I could not reach them-they were up in the top of a closet behind2 boxes- she later showed me how sheobtained them-she climbed up the doorjam, slung herself onto the shelf and army crawled across it over the boxes to the paint. Yeah, she is a handful!) and painted her whole room, bedding, toys, furniture, clothing, walls, carpeting, herself, her sleeping sister......etc. Everything was ruined and we had just bought our home so everything was brand-spankin' new. All-in-all she ruined about $3,000 worth of stuff-no joke. This is only one of the multitudes of outrageous things that she has done. We had to start spanking her. That is the only thing that works with her. Out of 4 children she is the only one that only responds to spanks. And she must have a rearend made of steel because she doesn't shed a tear when she is spanked. She is 4.5 now and has mostly outgrown the destructive phase but we still have to be VERY firm with her. If we give an inch she takes 5 miles. Good luck to you and your family. We will pray for you. My dd prays for herself every day. She is old enough now that we ask her why she does these things and her answer is that she feels mean and is very sorry later. My doctor says that her behavior is not normal and if she didn't outgrow it by age 5 that she would require therapy...... she is outgrowing it, Thank GOD!
Nicole

 

[belle&beast]

I can totally relate! My DD was 2.5 when her little brother was born and she was an angel until she turned 3! Tantrums, wetting herself on purpose, refusing to follow directions, it was rough! I started rewarding positive behaviors and it has worked like a charm. We have a "marble jar" for each child (my baby is 2.5 now). Whenever I catch them doing something good, they get a marble, when they misbehave, they lose a marble. We started out with a specific behavior, for us it was going on the potty when asked, and then increased the number of behaviors that earn marbles. It has been a great way to reward the positive and discipline the negative behaviors. I don't even say anything anymore, just take a marble away and the negative behavior stops!

I also agree witht he foster that said watch out for the fours! I think, just when it seems to get easy, BAM they get you again! My DD is turning 5 next week and I'm sure the fives will be all about the sassy mouth- I've seen a preview!

 

[3princesses+aprince]

Well your child sounds alot like my dd who is almost 2 and a half. She pulls hair, she slaps her sisters for no reason, she throws her toys... I could go on all day here. My first two dd's did not really go through terrible twos. Every child is different and I think some do go through the terrible 2s, or 3s and some don't. My dd2 also fights me for naptime, she doesnt always take them now, and of course she is definately worse when she's tired. And like others said boredom makes her act up too. But i'm assuming i'll just have to wait for it to pass, because i'm parenting her the same way I did the others, so I can't be doing too bad. My others are so well behaved so she is kind of a shock to me. She embaresses(sp?) me out in public and all that good stuff.

 

[adisneymama]

Just you wait the "F'ing 4's" are on the way.

AMEN! Sorry I can't add anything to it, but DD is 4 and was fine until the age of 3 1/2. I think she may be starting to get past some of it, she's going to kill me if she doesn't!

 

[tadamom]

Ditto about the 4's!!! I think whoever penned the phrase "terrible two's" didn't have a 3 year old. Then I had someone tell me "just wait until he turns 3 - it's worse than 2"! They obviously didn't have a 4 year old to compare that too!! I think 4 is when they know what is right/wrong but just want to see how far they can push it and you!! My son is almost 5 and I'm hoping that there is something magical about that age that he outgrows it all. Bad thing is, he's got a little sister that is 19 months old and has hit the terrible two's early and w/a vengance!!!! Oh woe is me!! I can actually feel my hair turning grey!!! She is a bull-headed daredevil and those two traits don't mix very well. I'm just gonna hang on for the ride!!

 

[Mr._The_King]

Just know that all your hard work will pay off in the long run. Time goes by so quickly, try to enjoy every moment you get with your kids.

 

[runwad]

Kinda off topic but a teacher friend of mine said she gives her son white vinegar instead of washing his mouth out with soap. I never liked the idea of washing their mouths out with soap, so I tried the vinegar thing on my son once when he was being wise...won't hurt him and worked like a charm and it was so funny he had no clue what it was going to taste like so he chugged the whole teaspoon down likety split then was like ewww yuck. Now all I have to say is do you want me to get the mouth cleaner, works like a charm

 

[mommyceratops]

OMG! I am not alone!! My DS3 is just getting awful! I hate taking him places and DREAD what will happen to his teacher when he starts preschool next year. Ok his teacher is this really laid back man I love teasing him about having my son next year.

Anyway I love the spirited child book. Need to reread it and for a funny my DS3 has a new phrase MIDIOT DONKEY! (which he is trying to say Bad doggy) but he is confused and is saying Idiot A$$ at least he doesn't know what he is saying and I know if I point it out not to say it that will become the only phrase in our house.

 

[Grendalynn]

.......which was especially hard for me since my oldest (dd) was the perfect baby/child in comparison--I didn't know how easy I had it until ds came along!

And so we thought about DS7! When he was 3 I said I would never have anymore kids because he was SOOO out of control!! now in hind sight we didnt know how good we had it!! DS3 has many up for any and all easiness we had with DS7. I can only imagine what DS to be will be like!!

 

[Grendalynn]

We have a "marble jar" for each child (my baby is 2.5 now). Whenever I catch them doing something good, they get a marble, when they misbehave, they lose a marble. We started out with a specific behavior, for us it was going on the potty when asked, and then increased the number of behaviors that earn marbles. It has been a great way to reward the positive and discipline the negative behaviors.

This is a great idea and we had a little discussion about it this evening. We will be introducing this tactic in the morning! It shoudl be interesting to see where they end up bythe end of the weekend! DH thought it should go like this: Good behaviour earns one marble - Bad behaviour takes two away. This way they have to work harder at being good and work even harder to aviod being bad....

I told DS7 that he will be like Toodles in the movie Hook and if he loses all his marbles, mommy will be sure to lose HER marbles! ((Shh! I think I already have lost my marbles!! ))

 

[Grendalynn]

Kinda off topic but a teacher friend of mine said she gives her son white vinegar instead of washing his mouth out with soap. I never liked the idea of washing their mouths out with soap, so I tried the vinegar thing on my son once when he was being wise...won't hurt him and worked like a charm and it was so funny he had no clue what it was going to taste like so he chugged the whole teaspoon down likety split then was like ewww yuck. Now all I have to say is do you want me to get the mouth cleaner, works like a charm

Great idea! We use the hot sauce tactic - just the tinyest bit - just sliding my finger across the top of the bottle leaves enough impression in their mouth, they know not to do it again! Or not right away anyway!

The word(s) of the week for Hot Sauce is " Butt Head and Shut up". DS3 seems to like the reaction he gets out of his brother when he says that. Then I hear, "I'm telling!!" and thats whenit all begins ........

 

[Grendalynn]

Thanks so much for the advice, insight and support! I am glad to see that I am not alone in this "battle"! Its nice to know its not just me! I will be heading to Borders or B&K to look for the latest editions of the books you all mentioned! Should begood reading for our vaction next week. Now if only the boys will get along well enough so I can get some reading in and not have to read the same paragraph over and over inbewteen fist-a-cuffs at the pool!

Thanks again and keep those comments coming!

 

[Grendalynn]

Well, I know that I am probably going to be flamed but at least I am honest. .... We had to start spanking her. That is the only thing that works with her. Out of 4 children she is the only one that only responds to spanks.

No flames from me - I think there are many variations to spaking. Some take it way to far to the point of abuse. Others are not forceful enough and become pushovers (IMHO) with a little "slap" on the hand and a "now Now we don't do that! tisk tisk". I think there is room for a good swift whack on the **** evry now and again. Its certainly something that should not be used on a daily basis or "just because". My dad's voice was just enough to let us know who was boss. And it still works to this day with my boys!

And boy, do I remember getting a spank from my Dad when I was little. Yikes! He rarely ever did it - but when he did, we knew we did something horrible and certainly walke dthe straight and narrow for a long time after that! I think it hurt him more than it did me, but he would never et us girls know it! Its actually still a funny family story to this day, I remember I had just got spanked for something, can't remember what it was now 25+ years later, But I was balling and told my mom that, " Daddy spanked me so hard he broke my Fanny!" Oh to be so young and innocent again ....

 

[schlepsnort]

This past summer has been HORRIBLE! My 2 yr old and 4 yr old fight daily. They have over 100 matchbox cars and yet they STILL fight over them! Now we have separated them into different rooms with their own allotment of toys and that has helped to a degree. But daily I find myself having the yell at my 4 yr old because he's being rude, he ignores what he is told to do, and on and on and on. The absolute WORST is when he rolled his eyes at me!!!! I wanted to kill him!! I did not, obviously, but oh lord that is my hot button and I think the little bugger knows it. But then, later on, he'll behave, he'll listen and do so good...It's enough to make you drink and drink heavily.
My 2 yr old doesn't have the ability to control himself AT ALL! He can get yelled at, spanked, toys taken away and he just does. not. care.
I am hoping that this is not a sign of adhd with him. I know it's not diet related because he hates soda and neither of them get any anyways. They rarely EVER get candy or sweets (Mommy and Daddy eat them all at night as a form of stress eating... )
I like the idea of white vinegar, I think I will try that tomorrow if needed because I just read on the side of the soap box to not ingest so I don't want to use that, though it did stop my DS of 4 from whining. Though my 2 yr old seemed awfully eager to put it in his mouth and I think he liked the taste of it...
I have tried counting, time outs, taking away toys, spanking, shaking up their schedules...I don't know. I'm going to start looking at some of those books because right now I also have a 4 month old who will eventually be going through these stages and if I can't these two under control then I can kiss my hair and my waist line GOOD BYE!
Sorry I can't give advice but you are definitely NOT alone! Thank God for hair dye and alcohol!

 

[Dimap]

I totally know how you feel, but don't laugh......I have 3 year old twins!!!!

Pam
ds-7
dd-4
ds-3
dd-3

 

[kellyg403]

My dd who is 18 was EXACTLY the same during her 2,3,4,5 years. She would purposely do things it seemed. We had a house with exactly 19 steps to the upstairs. How do I know? When she was sent to her room she would sit on EVERY single step and SCREAM "I am not going to my room"....getting louder and louder. I finally took her to the dr's and really thought I should be going for me...it was the toughest. She had 2 older siblings and a younger one that were so easygoing. Main thing I learned was consistensy. When she got to the 5th step I was willing and wanting her to stop so sometimes I would say fine then sit on the couch or whatever. When I started be totally consistent with her she started to learn I meant what I say. I read the "Strong Willed Child" by Dr. James Dobson and it helped a great deal. She did get a little easier over time but she is still the one I have to be firmer with. Even today at 18 she will pick on her 10 year old brother! Her younger sister starts HS this year and already she has come home saying the teachers say "Are you so and so's sister?" I reallllllly worry about that but haven't said a word.

It gets better...just remain consistent with punishment and praise. Don't have all the answers but the marble thing is a great idea!

Kelly