The star wars spoiler thread

[lockedoutlogic]

Oh...I definitely see the axe to the grindstone on this particular reviewer...but I don't necessarily disagree with all his critiques. Some most definitely.

He says right up front that he's "annoyed" the movie is a smash and he had To go. So it's not objective by really any measure.

But not completely without merit either.

I would apply the Seinfeld scale
To this guy:
"What did you think of the English patient"?

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I do have to laugh that DISNEY made it nothing but a commercial to sell product.

Because when kershner and Kurtz were in Iceland shooting empire...and Lucas was back in New York negotiating with Kenner and underoos...that was for "art"

 

[Eoghann]

I do have to laugh that DISNEY made it nothing but a commercial to sell product.

Because when kershner and Kurtz were in Iceland shooting empire...and Lucas was back in New York negotiating with Kenner and underoos...that was for "art"

Not the first time I've seen that criticism. Apparently Disney is just merchandising it everywhere! You know... unlike previously...

There may be some nuggets of value buried in that review but mostly the reviewer just seems upset that it's not art.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Not the first time I've seen that criticism. Apparently Disney is just merchandising it everywhere! You know... unlike previously...

There may be some nuggets of value buried in that review but mostly the reviewer just seems upset that it's not art.

90% of movies are not art...

And the other 10% try too hard

 

[Josh Hendy]

So, what I get from this review is:
Star Wars TFA is enjoyable as entertainment for a couple hours.
Star Wars is a huge commercial success, and they seem to be treating this as a business.
Star Wars TFA is a bad movie because it sets up the next 2 Star Wars movies that are part of the trilogy.

Star Wars TFA would have received a better review if it didn't act like Star Wars, didn't have as much marketing, and dismissed the fact it was part of a trilogy. So basically, don't be Star Wars.

Those points are certainly debatable but they weren't the only criticisms that were made in the article.

Some of the review's main criticisms, the ones which were not based on envy or contempt for the movie's great success, were that the movie is unimaginative and highly derivative. Star Wars (1977) was derivative in that it created an original pastiche of various movie elements. TFA was derivative in the way that scenes, characters, plot details and even (according the reviewer) dialog and jokes were lifted not from a variety of dissimilar genres, but from the previous movies in the same series.

Consider this:

Star Wars (1977) was a collage of the most fun bits from Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon serials, swordfighting swashbucklers, the aw-shucks good guys of westerns, the spirituality of samurai and Shao Lin monks, the sweeping scale and historical timeline of the Foundation trilogy, the exotic planetscapes and cult mysteries of Dune, the excitement of war movies like Midway, and the technology of Star Trek.

The Force Awakens was a collage of the most fun bits of ... Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back.

It doesn't mean the movie is bad. Just unoriginal. Nowhere near to the standard of originality of Star Wars (1977) and The Empire Strikes Back. But every bit as good as or better than any of the previous movies in the series for dialog, direction, acting, costumes, set design, visual effects, pacing, editing, music, sound effects, and so on.

Staying consistent with the Star Wars universe, it's look and feel, language, technology and problems, is fine with me. But rehashing a lot of the same planetscapes, plots and scenes is a bit of a lapse, from a moviegoer's and sci fan's point of view.

 

[MommaBerd]

I realize this isn't about the movie per se, but I just had to share that DH, who only liked Star Wars going in to the movie, is now in full-scale "I must learn all there is to know about the Star Wars universe" mode! He's reading the wiki, watching YouTube videos, ordered books...I'm dying!Granted, this is his personality - when he gets hooked into something he will learn all he possibly can about the subject - but Disney has worked its magic on him once again. (The first time we went to WDW as a family, WHILE we were on our trip, he ordered the 800+ page biography on Walt and another book so they would be waiting for him when we got home. And they were consumed in about a week!)

 

[Goofy DVC]

More news from Deadline on the upcoming China release:
"But offshore’s billion-dollar moment most likely will wait until China chimes in January 9. And when it does, many are predicting a sizable opening weekend. Notably, Reuters recently reported that Star Wars has seen about 700K mentions on Sina/Weibo in December; outstripping the chatter of other major 2015 Hollywood releases."

 

[TwoMisfits]

SPOILER ALERT!!!

joking...I think it's safe to say he was proven NOT to be the most powerful Jedi other than Luke in the story...

You might have missed a few key sequences during a potty break or something?

I think Kylo Ren is likely as potentially powerful in the force as anyone; however, his ability to control the force with his dark side emotions still comes and goes (as he fights the light side still in him). When confronted with the knowledge that he was fighting his innocent little (probably previously unknown to him) sis (through seeing her and the lightsaber together) - yes, this is guessing the eventual novelization, he couldn't bring forth the dark side emotions to fight her effectively, nor may he have even wanted to. If one wonders why he kept hitting his wound, it may have been to continually tamp down his positive feelings towards her. Since this entire movie is a rehash of #4 (with elements of #5), to me, this is pretty much the scene when Luke learns the truth that Vader is his father. Rather than fight anymore, he pretty much bails when he realizes the truth - he just can't focus on fighting (even if that's what he came to do)...Kylo didn't "bail" per se, but I think he was definitely pulling punches all fight. I contend he was also pulling his mental punches in the interview room b/c he didn't know quite what to make of her then, but she seemed familiar and he wanted to know more before he mentally hurt her...

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Don't see her as a sister...but it's possible.

I think the obsession with Han Solo babies is kinda an 80's fanboy thing...

They gave you one...other people have kids too

 

[TwoMisfits]

They do...but they don't normally matter in the Star Wars jedi universe...this is, and has always been, a Skywalker jedi story...and there are two of them that can have the kids...so, it's Luke or Leia...

And if it was Luke's kid, where's the mom? Why not track Luke through his wife or (ex)wife? If she was dead, don't you think that would have come up somewhere in this movie? And why would he just ditch Rey on a planet he could never reach to help her (even if he thought he force-protected her by wiping her brain and force memories)? It's one thing to give up your baby to protect her from her brother, since you (Leia) are not a strong enough jedi to protect her and you'd never bring yourself to kill one child to save the other...but to be the strongest jedi in the galaxy and just ditch her as her dad? No way...

 

[Budshark]

Just playing here...

Luke is married, has a baby, is rebuilding the Jedi order. Han and Leia bring their older nephew to study under Luke. Ben sees his much younger cousin and knows about her, but doesn't spend much time with her.

Ben turns dark and returns with the Knights of Ren. Luke's wife is killed, but the daughter is spared. Luke hides her in Jakku and goes into hiding/mourning as he blames himself.

Fast forward 15 years and we have the scenes that played out in Episode VII. A 27-29 year old Ben and a 17-19 year old Rey.

That's where my money is.

 

[Lee Matthews]

My own issue with Rey being Lukes daughter is then who is the monther? Thats another character they are going to have to write in down the line and give a backstory too, to explain where she hasn't been all these years

 

[kbelle8995]

Oh...I definitely see the axe to the grindstone on this particular reviewer...but I don't necessarily disagree with all his critiques. Some most definitely.

He says right up front that he's "annoyed" the movie is a smash and he had To go. So it's not objective by really any measure.

But not completely without merit either.

I would apply the Seinfeld scale
To this guy:
"What did you think of the English patient"?

I think It's more about how dare this movie exists it's just about money. Surprise the movie industry is a business. Majority of the movies are made to make money.

 

[Aurora0427]

And if it was Luke's kid, where's the mom? Why not track Luke through his wife or (ex)wife? If she was dead, don't you think that would have come up somewhere in this movie? And why would he just ditch Rey on a planet he could never reach to help her (even if he thought he force-protected her by wiping her brain and force memories)? It's one thing to give up your baby to protect her from her brother, since you (Leia) are not a strong enough jedi to protect her and you'd never bring yourself to kill one child to save the other...but to be the strongest jedi in the galaxy and just ditch her as her dad? No way...

There's no way they could've explored all of that in TFA. That storyline is more appropriate for the next film.

 

[Aurora0427]

Just playing here...

Luke is married, has a baby, is rebuilding the Jedi order. Han and Leia bring their older nephew to study under Luke. Ben sees his much younger cousin and knows about her, but doesn't spend much time with her.

Ben turns dark and returns with the Knights of Ren. Luke's wife is killed, but the daughter is spared. Luke hides her in Jakku and goes into hiding/mourning as he blames himself.

Fast forward 15 years and we have the scenes that played out in Episode VII. A 27-29 year old Ben and a 17-19 year old Rey.

That's where my money is.

Totally.

 

[TwoMisfits]

You don't need to explain it all...it could have been as simple as "Have we checked with Mara where Luke might be?" Or "If only Mara were still here, she'd know how to find him." - a throwaway line, highly explanatory that sets up the plotline later (yes, I'm stealing the book's wife, but I honestly think Luke won't even be married in this one - he'll be Obi Wan of the original trilogy or maybe a mix of him and Yoda)...heck, even a birth flashback with Luke in the lightsaber scene...

And if you want more ammunition for Rey being Han and Leia's daughter (which at this point, I find obvious), look to Chewie, who at the end of the movie, goes with Rey to find Luke. Not Poe, not some other high speed character, but Chewie...who did Chewie have the life debt to? - Han...so who might seek to protect Han's daughter later...

Plus, the "you're my cousin, I can't kill you" is way less impactful than "you're my sister"...and you know there's a confrontation coming down the road again...

And let's not even mention the Millenium Falcon being on Jakku...not a Luke X-wing or another Luke's related ship...

 

[Aurora0427]

You don't need to explain it all...it could have been as simple as "Have we checked with Mara where Luke might be?" Or "If only Mara were still here, she'd know how to find him." - a throwaway line, highly explanatory that sets up the plotline later (yes, I'm stealing the book's wife, but I honestly think Luke won't even be married in this one - he'll be Obi Wan of the original trilogy or maybe a mix of him and Yoda)...heck, even a birth flashback with Luke in the lightsaber scene...

And if you want more ammunition for Rey being Han and Leia's daughter (which at this point, I find obvious), look to Chewie, who at the end of the movie, goes with Rey to find Luke. Not Poe, not some other high speed character, but Chewie...who did Chewie have the life debt to? - Han...so who might seek to protect Han's daughter later...

Plus, the "you're my cousin, I can't kill you" is way less impactful than "you're my sister"...and you know there's a confrontation coming down the road again...

And let's not even mention the Millenium Falcon being on Jakku...not a Luke X-wing or another Luke's related ship...

You're completely missing my point. If I'm reading your posts correctly, you're stating that these scenes or "throwaway lines" involving Rey's mother, if she's Luke's daughter, should have been included in TFA. I'm simply saying that I don't think any of that would've fit in or been appropriate to get into during Episode 7. It's a much better fit for Episode 8. It's like you want everything covered in one episode.

Rey could be Luke's daughter, Leia's daughter, or none of the above. Right now it's open for interpretation.

 

[Budshark]

She's not Leia and Han's. Too many plot holes.
The whole relationship is Ben tore us apart. I miss our son. There's still good in him. Save him. Bring him home. Oh here's our daughter who we shipped away, but we won't even acknowledge her. Huh?

And why no mention of Luke's wife? They likely knew she was dead so no shocker there. From a movie standpoint it would revea the secret. And from a personal standpoint can you imagine the scene? Hi Rey - you're our niece. Your mom is dead, your cousin (our son) killed her. Now go find your legend/hermit father who abandoned you. Oh what a dramatic ending!! Haha

Plus if we are following the original she has to feel betrayed by Leia and Han for the circle to be complete.

 

[ColoradoDreamin]

You believe what you want to believe. they made the movie purposely made it that way so people would talk about it. So no matter what you say how "it must be based on..." is not correct because they wanted to throw everybody off and make it impossible to know for sure. That's what keeps the conversation going. So each story of being Hans, or Luke's...will have supposed holes or facts proving one or the other. Until the next movie (hopefully the next movie for our sanity) it will be revealed. I'm still leaning towards Hans personally, but going to see again today. I also could see it either way, and that nothing so far proves either way.

 

[ColoradoDreamin]

Any official numbers from yesterday?