The Running Thread - 2018

[camaker]

Now I want to know why Rhino the hamster from Bolt wasn't in the video. He absolutely steals that movie.

I have a shoe related question.

So I bought a new pair of running shoes in January. I like them, but have also learned that they work great for anything around a 10K, but not as well for longer runs. This isn't an issue since I rotate another pair of running shoes for my longer runs. But that pair is nearing the end of its run and I don't want to use them for the marathon. So I bought a new pair of running shoes yesterday with the hope that they will be my marathon shoes come January. However before then, I'd love to give them a good test to make sure they will work for a half or full.

If I start training with these new shoes tomorrow, will I have sufficiently broken them in to run a half marathon about a month out from now? I think I've read that's enough time, but I wanted more feedback before I commit to this pair for next month's half.

If you have the right pair of shoes, there shouldn’t be a need to break them in. If they’re a new pair of the same shoe that works for your longer runs, they should be good to go right out of the box. If they’re a new model or new version of the old model you may want to give them some test runs to see how they work for the longer distances, but you’re really not breaking them in, more auditioning them.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

If you have the right pair of shoes, there shouldn’t be a need to break them in. If they’re a new pair of the same shoe that works for your longer runs, they should be good to go right out of the box. If they’re a new model or new version of the old model you may want to give them some test runs to see how they work for the longer distances, but you’re really not breaking them in, more auditioning them.

This is true unless there is something irregular about the shoes. I have bought new pair of shoes that just weren't right and created hot spots. I would probably have developed blisters if I had run something like a 10 miler right out of the gates. They have all been fine after a few runs, but some have needed a few runs (or my feet needed those runs?) As a result, I now break new shoes in over a period of about 2 weeks before I add them to my long run or race rotation. But they immediately go into my shorter run rotation.

 

[Waiting2goback]

It's finally Friday and time for our Fun Friday QOTD: Do you find that the exact same snack from one park to another is not always the same? If so, which snack, which parks, and which one is better?

ATTQOTD: Dole whip. The two parks are Magic Kingdom and Animal Kingdom and I prefer the Animal Kingdom version. It's also a plus that you can add rum to it at AK as well, but beside that the one in AK just tasted better even without the rum. It also seemed to be a darker yellow and a little different consistency. Maybe they are not supposed to be the same thing and thats why. I like them both, but AK is #1 for me.

I don't really snack much when I am there. I try not to get too far off the path with my eating just because I am at WDW. But I have had someMickey bars and they are all the same.

Hello All!

First post here. I signed up for the Dopey Challenge in Jan but had a question regarding training. At work, I can take a slightly longer lunch break and run for 30 mins, and once I get home I typically do another 30 mins. Is this efficient/productive, or should I just do an hour run at home without having a break in-between?

Any suggestions would really be appreciated!!

Edit: I would still be doing my longer distance/longer time runs on the weekends.

Welcome. I would say it depends on ur current fitness level. If you are still building your base then you probably want more recovery in between runs so it would be better do it all at once. If you run 50 miles a week, it won't matter. I follow a few people on IG that do multiple runs a day. One is a 2:44 marathoner and will be going to the Olympic trials and she is just a "regular person", meaning she's not a pro. She is mid 30's with 3 kids and she used to be heavy and out of shape. She's just a machine now.

 

[cavepig]

If you have the right pair of shoes, there shouldn’t be a need to break them in. If they’re a new pair of the same shoe that works for your longer runs, they should be good to go right out of the box. If they’re a new model or new version of the old model you may want to give them some test runs to see how they work for the longer distances, but you’re really not breaking them in, more auditioning them.

I wear the same model and I have to 'break them in' before a race, 40-50 miles usually I put on them. I also have to get my lacing just right which can take about a week of runs so they aren't too loose or tight. I'll run 11 miles in a brand new pair today, but wouldn't even think of doing a race in a brand new pair. Sure it works for some people, but I wouldn't say it's always the case for everyone, just like with everything and running

 

[Waiting2goback]

I have been tossing around the idea of whether to post this story or not because it is personal but it relates to running in that running was what first helped me break through all of this crap. And this newest development was another Ah-Ha moment that made me realize how lucky I was that I stuck to running as it helped deal with all of this drama, and still does.

Me and my ex-wife don't get along, which is not uncommon of course. But she has taken her hatred of me to new levels. Now keep in mind I was a stay-at home dad for 7 years and still remain very involved in my kid's lives having 50% custody. I didn't cheat on her (she did the cheating), no abuse, never used any drugs or alcohol or any of the typical things that makes wife's hate their husbands. We just grew apart.

She played her games throughout the divorce to try and keep me from getting my 50% custody, because there were financial reasons. Well, once the courts got involved and did their "investigation" and my kids had their say it all ended quickly and the divorce got settled. You would think this is where it would end, but oh, the crazy is just beginning.

My ex MIL and grandmother lived together. Her grandmother is 100 yrs old so someone needed to take care of her, although she's generally very healthy. Well 2 weeks ago my ex's mother, aunt, and uncle get in a fight and that resulted in her mother kicking Gram (100 yr old) out of her house and telling her she has to live in a a nursing home. And while that's crazy enough, it's not the craziest part. So none of this has anything to do with me but it's important to the story.

Gram moved into her new "home" Thursday. Clearly she's depressed at the situation so my ex SIL and her aunt both asked me to bring my kids to see her on Friday, when I got them back, to see her and cheer her up. It was on my way to Maine, where we were going for the weekend, so I agreed. She'll always be my grandmother, I love her!

Well, my daughter posts the pics on Instagram. My ex finds out we were there. She and her mother went to question Gram as to why she didn't kick me out when I got there. Gram said, he did a nice thing bringing the kids to see me (my kids are her world) and he has never done anything to me so I would never do that. My ex and her mother told this 100 yr old lady she was no longer part of their family and they would never talk to her again!

I share this because it is now evident what kind of person I was married to for 20 years. And there is. I doubt she was the one that dragged me into my depression. If it wasn't for running I don't know where I would be. It saved me in so many ways.

 

[Waiting2goback]

While nothing that happened to Gram these past two weeks is fine, I deal with it, and other things, because I "ran today".

 

[William Santiago]

Welcome. I would say it depends on ur current fitness level. If you are still building your base then you probably want more recovery in between runs so it would be better do it all at once. If you run 50 miles a week, it won't matter. I follow a few people on IG that do multiple runs a day. One is a 2:44 marathoner and will be going to the Olympic trials and she is just a "regular person", meaning she's not a pro. She is mid 30's with 3 kids and she used to be heavy and out of shape. She's just a machine now.

Thank you!! I've been doing about 40 miles/week lately and it's been working out just fine for me. On the weekends, I try to get one or two longer runs in, but during the week, it's just easier to work out during lunch, and like a 5k after work (more time being a dad after work).

 

[Waiting2goback]

Thank you!! I've been doing about 40 miles/week lately and it's been working out just fine for me. On the weekends, I try to get one or two longer runs in, but during the week, it's just easier to work out during lunch, and like a 5k after work (more time being a dad after work).

I bet @DopeyBadger has some scientific evidence to support this one way or another but I would say, whether it is the best way to get the mileage in or not, if this is the only way to do it, it is better than not doing it at all.

 

[LSUlakes]

I have been tossing around the idea of whether to post this story or not because it is personal but it relates to running in that running was what first helped me break through all of this crap. And this newest development was another Ah-Ha moment that made me realize how lucky I was that I stuck to running as it helped deal with all of this drama, and still does.

Me and my ex-wife don't get along, which is not uncommon of course. But she has taken her hatred of me to new levels. Now keep in mind I was a stay-at home dad for 7 years and still remain very involved in my kid's lives having 50% custody. I didn't cheat on her (she did the cheating), no abuse, never used any drugs or alcohol or any of the typical things that makes wife's hate their husbands. We just grew apart.

She played her games throughout the divorce to try and keep me from getting my 50% custody, because there were financial reasons. Well, once the courts got involved and did their "investigation" and my kids had their say it all ended quickly and the divorce got settled. You would think this is where it would end, but oh, the crazy is just beginning.

My ex MIL and grandmother lived together. Her grandmother is 100 yrs old so someone needed to take care of her, although she's generally very healthy. Well 2 weeks ago my ex's mother, aunt, and uncle get in a fight and that resulted in her mother kicking Gram (100 yr old) out of her house and telling her she has to live in a a nursing home. And while that's crazy enough, it's not the craziest part. So none of this has anything to do with me but it's important to the story.

Gram moved into her new "home" Thursday. Clearly she's depressed at the situation so my ex SIL and her aunt both asked me to bring my kids to see her on Friday, when I got them back, to see her and cheer her up. It was on my way to Maine, where we were going for the weekend, so I agreed. She'll always be my grandmother, I love her!

Well, my daughter posts the pics on Instagram. My ex finds out we were there. She and her mother went to question Gram as to why she didn't kick me out when I got there. Gram said, he did a nice thing bringing the kids to see me (my kids are her world) and he has never done anything to me so I would never do that. My ex and her mother told this 100 yr old lady she was no longer part of their family and they would never talk to her again!

I share this because it is now evident what kind of person I was married to for 20 years. And there is. I doubt she was the one that dragged me into my depression. If it wasn't for running I don't know where I would be. It saved me in so many ways.

I am sorry to hear how these things are turning out. It's really a shame how some adults act after a divorce. My parents divorced when I was 2 ish, so I grew up knowing nothing different, but as I got older I realized some of the crazy things that actually happened. Unfortunately I've seen many people close to me get divorced, and out of those people I only know of one that turned out good. They actually get together for Christmas to make things easier for everyone and bring their new spouses with them. It may seem odd, but all of the kids and their grand kids are together. This is rare though and usually the holidays bring out the worse in this situation. I hope that things get better, and just remember it's probably for the best to keep a cool head in situations in which you would be justified in not doing so. Best of luck going forward and always feel free to come here to post or you can PM me if you just need someone to vent to.

 

[LSUlakes]

QOTD: I know we have a Strava group already, and it's a huge group! Those with Garmin, would you be interested in a Dis group on their as well or are you good with Strava?

ATTQOTD: I prefer Garmin, but check out Strava. It's hard to keep up with everyone on it since it has such a large base. If enough people are interested I could start up a group on Garmin and maybe I could create some sort of challenges if anyone would be interested.

 

[TheHamm]

QOTD: I know we have a Strava group already, and it's a huge group! Those with Garmin, would you be interested in a Dis group on their as well or are you good with Strava?
ATTQOTD: I prefer Garmin, but check out Strava. It's hard to keep up with everyone on it since it has such a large base. If enough people are interested I could start up a group on Garmin and maybe I could create some sort of challenges if anyone would be interested.

New to both Garmin and strava over here. I clicked on the link and I was a bit taken aback with the strava group because people seem to use real names, so I felt it was kind of dishonest that I do not (someone else posted a few pages back about this being anethema to them, I am in that boat). I would be curious about how a challenge would work given the spread of habits.

Disney related, not running: we took soon-to-be-kindergartners out on kayaks this weekend. While it has been months since our last disney trip, there were comments about similarities and differences between a trip down the river and IASW. Apparently I paddle faster than the rides I will take it as a compliment.

 

[JBinORL]

Let's talk about the guilt of missing a long run, for no other reason than you decided to sleep in. On back to back days.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Thank you!! I've been doing about 40 miles/week lately and it's been working out just fine for me. On the weekends, I try to get one or two longer runs in, but during the week, it's just easier to work out during lunch, and like a 5k after work (more time being a dad after work).

I bet @DopeyBadger has some scientific evidence to support this one way or another but I would say, whether it is the best way to get the mileage in or not, if this is the only way to do it, it is better than not doing it at all.

Agreed. Doing the 30min+30min is better than only being able to get in 30min. But know that a 30+30 doesn't equal a 60min. Although, it's close when working on the lower end of the run duration spectrum. Where it would become more problematic is when the duration is suppose to increase. Like a 60+60 is no where close the same to a 120. Then you'll find that you aren't building endurance like you would expect (has to do with running economy and ability to hold the lactate threshold at a set pace over the course of a long distance run). This doesn't sound like this is the case, but just wanted to make sure I touched on that concept.

When operating in double days, the true purpose is reducing the timeframe between runs. It forces the body to recover, adapt, and run again in a tighter sequence. So it's really important to make sure those double days stay very easy. If one of the two durations is longer, then it should be treated as the hard run (and usually that's the one to occur first in the day's sequence). Most recommendations I've seen suggest that the second very easy run shouldn't exceed about 45 min in length to keep the primary purpose as recovery.

Double days are common for those who have pushed the boundaries of the duration limits. Commonly you'll see this in runners who are running in the sub-3 hour marathon range. There comes a point where you can't continue to increase an "easy" run duration and it still be perceived easy by the body. That limit is around 60 min. There can be a "moderate easy" every once in a while at 90 min, but much more than 60 min on a regular basis and you'll likely find that the run isn't serving it's purpose as a recovery effort. So as some runners get closer to maximizing their potential, they'll deem it necessary to do double runs to increase their training load and try to squeeze out their last bit of potential. The option could be a 10 miler or a 5+5 miler. As Pfitz states in his book (Advanced Marathoning), the body will be more accepting to the 5+5 as a recovery effort since the duration of both is kept on the lower end of the duration spectrum (assuming a 5+5 is about 40min+40 min, whereas the 10 miler was about 80 min).

But instead of a recovery effort, how about something hard? Like if someone wanted to do a 1 mile WU + 8 miles M Tempo + 1 mile CD split over two runs. Could that be split into a 1 WU + 4 M Tempo and 1 WU + 4 M Tempo to make the same workout? Not quite. The duration held at M Tempo (and many other hard paces) is a key variable in producing the desired adaptation. So cutting that workout down from 8 miles into a 4+4 actually means you're unlikely to yield the desired benefit from the workout. Additionally, by placing two moderately difficult workouts together like that you've also potentially increased the injury risk. So didn't receive the desired benefit and instead increased the injury risk, means in most cases this isn't an ideal training session.

At the end of the day, if you find the 30+30 to be something that best fits your lifestyle, then go for it. Just keep some of these things in mind when doing so.

 

[camaker]

New to both Garmin and strava over here. I clicked on the link and I was a bit taken aback with the strava group because people seem to use real names, so I felt it was kind of dishonest that I do not (someone else posted a few pages back about this being anethema to them, I am in that boat). I would be curious about how a challenge would work given the spread of habits.

If you are interested in the Strava DIS group, don't let this hold you back. I don't think anyone will care what you call yourself. You're still part of the group. There was an early conversation in the Strava group tying DIS names to the real names used on Strava so that people could make the connection. If you used your DIS name there, it would be one less step for the rest of us to recognize you! There are also privacy settings so that you don't have to let Strava show the actual locations of your runs, too.

 

[camaker]

Let's talk about the guilt of missing a long run, for no other reason than you decided to sleep in. On back to back days.

 

[William Santiago]

Agreed. Doing the 30min+30min is better than only being able to get in 30min. But know that a 30+30 doesn't equal a 60min. Although, it's close when working on the lower end of the run duration spectrum. Where it would become more problematic is when the duration is suppose to increase. Like a 60+60 is no where close the same to a 120. Then you'll find that you aren't building endurance like you would expect (has to do with running economy and ability to hold the lactate threshold at a set pace over the course of a long distance run). This doesn't sound like this is the case, but just wanted to make sure I touched on that concept.

Thank you so much for the thorough response!! This is exactly what I was looking for and it makes total sense. I'll try to incorporate one of the weekday runs as a longer continuous run, but will likely have to do the 30+30mins twice a week or so just out of convenience.

 

[William Santiago]

Agreed. Doing the 30min+30min is better than only being able to get in 30min. But know that a 30+30 doesn't equal a 60min. Although, it's close when working on the lower end of the run duration spectrum. Where it would become more problematic is when the duration is suppose to increase. Like a 60+60 is no where close the same to a 120. Then you'll find that you aren't building endurance like you would expect (has to do with running economy and ability to hold the lactate threshold at a set pace over the course of a long distance run). This doesn't sound like this is the case, but just wanted to make sure I touched on that concept.

Thank you so much for the thorough response!! This is exactly what I was looking for and it makes total sense. I'll try to incorporate one of the weekday runs as a longer continuous run, but will likely have to do the 30+30mins twice a week or so just out of convenience.

 

[SarahDisney]

QOTD: I know we have a Strava group already, and it's a huge group! Those with Garmin, would you be interested in a Dis group on their as well or are you good with Strava?

Sure. Why not?
(I should probably add ... I checkout out the Strava group like once a month. I'm not a big "groups on apps" person. But I'm game for anything)

I clicked on the link and I was a bit taken aback with the strava group because people seem to use real names, so I felt it was kind of dishonest that I do not (someone else posted a few pages back about this being anethema to them, I am in that boat).

Use whatever name you want! I actually usually only use my first name and last initial, and after you posted this I actually checked to make sure that's what I had in Strava and I saw that my full last name was there, so I changed it (I mean, I have a very common last name anyway, but I'm still more comfortable only using the initial). Use whatever you're comfortable with. Just realize that if you use "TheHamm" on Strava, if any of us meet you in real life, that might be what we end up calling you

Let's talk about the guilt of missing a long run, for no other reason than you decided to sleep in. On back to back days.

I don't understand this guilt. Always sleep.
I miss sleep...

 

[opusone]

QOTD: I know we have a Strava group already, and it's a huge group! Those with Garmin, would you be interested in a Dis group on their as well or are you good with Strava?

If there was a Garmin DIS group, I would likely join. I currently use Strava for groups (belong to two groups -> DIS being one of them), and I don't currently belong to any groups on Garmin Connect.

One downside of using a Garmin-specific group is that other DISers that don't use Garmin won't be able to join (at least I think). Are there features of Garmin groups that are better than Strava? Do we feel that this may fragment the DIS group if we have more than one place out there? For those that belong to both, they may have double-duty on giving and receiving "likes" given that the same workout will be posted in both places. Just some thoughts.

 

[YawningDodo]

I was going to post this in my training journal, but...I think it's worth getting input from the larger group.

I did only my Tuesday run last week, no Thursday run, no Saturday long run (for context, my longest long run has been 3 miles), didn't even do my morning walks on the off days. That was because I had very noticeable swelling in both legs, the left more than the right, and lingering shin pain for several days in the left. I've had some swelling towards each evening that I'd been chalking up to water retention since it's summer and I've been eating poorly (way too much fast food, which means way too much salt on top of everything else that's bad for me in it), but after things suddenly coming to a head last week I'm wondering if I've been beating my legs up more than I thought I was. There's also the issue, as I mentioned in my journal, that my new running shoes slip a little in the heel no matter how I lace them and I think it contributed to the problem. Of course, the big contributor was the fact that I noticed my shin hurting more than usual about halfway through the run (I've had mild pain after each run that goes away within a few hours...another clue that I was doing worse things to myself than I thought?) and...kept going through the pain. Gee, what's that thing we don't do, again?

Because this is still so new to me, I get a little scared when I see myself just not running for most of a week, especially since I didn't do any of my weekend routine to prepare to start up again this week. I have no plan for this week, running laundry's not done, none of that. Having started things and then quit when it got too hard, I remember having times where I would intend to pick something back up again after a break and just never did--so while I don't want to throw myself back into behaviors that could cause an injury, I'm being very conscious of the need to keep thinking about running and making real, solid plans for what I'm going to do next. Last week was more hectic than I'd expected, so it wasn't until last night that I got back to doing a little reading and thinking about what this looks like.

Thoughts I'm having...I'm on the Galloway method, and it seems he's recommending (at this stage at least) two "maintenance" runs on weekdays and one long, slow run on the weekend with a full rest day before the long run. What I've been doing are two half-hour runs on weekdays during which I push myself about as hard as I can sustain for that half hour, and I do about 70 minutes of walking the day before my long run mostly out of scheduling convenience (I walk to work on my walking days, and Saturday's a better day for me to run than Sunday). I'm currently running 10 seconds, walking 50, and my pace rarely gets under 15:00 per mile--more often I'm around 15:30. This is after I deliberately slowed myself down because I could tell I was hurting my shins and fading at the ends of runs when I ran 15/45 and pushed for a faster pace. Now I'm wondering if I need to slow down even more, and that's disheartening. I think the 10/50 ratio is alright, but...and this is seriously frustrating...I'm wondering if I should be aiming for something more like 16:00. I'm about 60-70 pounds heavier than I'd ultimately like to be, which is less a concern in terms of "burn fat now!" (I'm viewing weight loss as a secondary benefit of running, if it happens at all) and more a concern in terms of "I'm putting stress on my joints." So I recognize that 16:00 at 10/50 might be the best I can do right now without hurting myself. It's frustrating, though.

In the long term, my goals include running a half marathon next June and the WDW Marathon in January 2020. So far I've gone into this with the assumption that my focus throughout my training needs to be on distance and that I'll naturally be able to increase my intervals as I build up endurance. I can't explain exactly how the thought got in my head, but now I keep coming back to the thought that maybe I should focus on increasing my ability to run longer intervals on shorter runs before I build much further past 3 miles. I just imagine myself slogging through ten miles at my current ratio and pace and it doesn't sound like where I'll want to be. I'm thinking about things like...if I focus on short distance runs (maybe up to 10K) now through January, I'll still have six months to train to run the HM distance, and then another six months to train to run marathon distance. And maybe being able to run more and walk less by the time I start adding longer runs will make things easier at that point. But then I don't know if teaching myself to run higher ratios on shorter runs will be better or worse for preventing injury than focusing only on distance.

And so, back to the injury question...I think there are a couple things I need to examine. First, I need to get serious about stretching, which I haven't really been doing (if only because every time I look up how and what to stretch I get inundated with what seems like a billion different stretches I'll never remember to do after every run). Second, I suspect strength training might benefit me--that's strength training in terms of building up my core and any other muscle groups that might help me function better as a runner. Third, I need to deal with the shoe situation. Any recommendations for getting the heel to stop slipping? I was informed in my journal thread that some running stores will exchange shoes even if they've been run in a bit, but the store from which I bought them is a three hour drive away. If I need to replace the shoes, I'm probably more inclined to go to the other one that's only a 90 minute drive and just eat the cost of the additional pair. Fourth, I do need to consider what my priorities are as I build my training plan going forward and as I decide whether to slow down on those weekday runs and make them truly "easy" instead of the "moderate" I suspect they currently are. And, too, whether I need to take Fridays off from walking to give my legs a full rest before the long run instead of taking that rest the day after.

For now I'm committing to at least walking throughout this week, whether or not I get any runs in before the weekend. So whether or not I think of anything else, I need to post this and go--it's past time for me to set out to walk to work.

Edit: Yeah, didn't get the walk in, waited too long to start and just drove to work. So that's starting the week out less than ideally.