The Running Thread - 2018

[Sleepless Knight]

Congratulations to everyone who ran races over the weekend. Nice job to all.

ATTQOTD: I briefly ran with the 3:15 pace group during this year's Dark Side Half. I wound up catching up to them after photo stops around Hollywood Studios and after my consistent pace kept me in their vicinity, I decided to officially join them to test how I handled running with a pace group. Since I was considering marathon weekend at the time, I wanted to see how running with a pace group felt because I wanted to have that as an option depending on how the marathon unfolded. So I chatted with the pace group leader about the marathon distance and asked her about that mostly. I found it to be a beneficial experience. I know I could have stayed with them easily for the rest of the race, but a character photo stop distracted me and that was the end of my running with the pace group. I briefly attempted to see if I could catch up to them, but abandoned that idea due to my knee acting up when I ran faster.

While I plan on self pacing during the marathon, I may start off with a pace group to make sure that I don't go out too fast. And I will happily run with a pace group if I find that I need the extra support to make sure I cross the finish line without the assistance of the bus.

I was unaware that Disney had official pace groups at all. I'm guessing that info is on the runDisney site?

I'm not sure if it's well advertised on the website. For those looking to run with a pace group, they'll have the signs with Mickey running and the pace target on it in the corrals. As they can be larger groups of 15-20 people, you can't really miss them.

So anyway, the local running store is having a unofficial running of the race on it's scheduled date. Everyone will start together and the first 100 finishers get a medal. Water stops are also available. My question is, can this event count as a race? No bibs or official timing either.

I say count it. While it all depends on your definition of a race, it certainly sounds like one and should feel like one. Too bad that it won't count for proof of time.

 

[AntimonyER]

ATTQOTD: Count it. Especially if you are going to run it as one.

 

[huskies90]

QOTD: Todays question is based on a current situation I have. This Saturday is the Baton Rouge Beach Half Marathon! The bad news, is this race is no longer an "official" race. What I mean by that, is there is no registration and it's a open course. The reason the race is shut down make me sad and of course Louisiana politics are doing what they do here, which allow the for profit race to kill the little guy here. So anyway, the local running store is having a unofficial running of the race on it's scheduled date. Everyone will start together and the first 100 finishers get a medal. Water stops are also available. My question is, can this event count as a race? No bibs or official timing either.

ATTQOTD: I don't see why you wouldn't count it as a race. It obviously won't be official like for a POT but it is still a group of people all running the same distance and finishing at different times. Not much different than any other race.

 

[GreatLakes]

QOTD: Todays question is based on a current situation I have. This Saturday is the Baton Rouge Beach Half Marathon! The bad news, is this race is no longer an "official" race. What I mean by that, is there is no registration and it's a open course. The reason the race is shut down make me sad and of course Louisiana politics are doing what they do here, which allow the for profit race to kill the little guy here. So anyway, the local running store is having a unofficial running of the race on it's scheduled date. Everyone will start together and the first 100 finishers get a medal. Water stops are also available. My question is, can this event count as a race? No bibs or official timing either.

It likely isn't really a race any longer, just a timed group run, but that is all up to you really. I'd likely just treat it like a timed group run and not really count it but I don't think it is wrong if you do.

 

[Waiting2goback]

Seattle Marathon

Sunday I finally made good on a decade-long goal of completing a marathon. I've registered for a few in the past, but I had an ill-conceived training concept that left me chronically injured. This time around, I followed the Hansons beginner program. I had an outstanding training cycle that made huge improvements on my endurance and pace. More importantly, I made it through without getting injured!

The Seattle Marathon is run every year on the Sunday after Thanksgiving. I've done the half a few times and the elevation profile can be intimidating, but this year introduced a new course. The old course would take you south toward Seward Park and then the marathon would go east on I-90 toward Mercer Island and back before going over Capitol Hill. Construction on I-90 to install a light rail system mandated changing the route. This year they didn't go as far south and put most of the course on the Burke-Gilman Trail (a local rails-to-trails project) with a couple of out-and-backs. The change resulted in an elevation profile reduction from 1,468 feet to 1,165 feet.

I set out with a goal to finish in a Boston-qualifying 3:20. I knew this was an aggressive goal, but I had been able to handle the pace during training even in the midst of cumulative fatigue. The first few miles were a touch slow, but I was confident I'd make it up later and didn't want to use too much energy weaving through the field. After a few miles I was up to goal marathon pace and somewhere midway between the 3:15 and 3:25 pacers (alas, there were no 3:20 pacers to use as a guide during this race).

My first challenge in the race was concern about monitoring pacing. I use iSmoothRun on an Apple Watch Series 3 and a Stryd footpod. Although Stryd advertises that it's more accurate than GPS out of the box and requires no calibration, I've found that it consistently measures my runs shorter than I actually ran - something I noted during the Poulsbo Half Marathon in September and verified the following morning on a local track. On shorter runs, it wasn't even noticeable. On my half, it had me 0.35 miles short of what other runners were getting on their watch and 0.45 miles short of a half marathon. Rather than go through a lot of effort adjusting the footpod in the middle of a training cycle, I just kept training at the same pace and adjusted my expected pace during the marathon by 10s. Once I hit the I-5 express lanes, my watch lost GPS and gave me a "GPS signal lost, switching to accelerometer" alert. Wait, does that mean that it didn't connect to the Stryd? Am I looking at distances from the Stryd or the accelerometer in the watch? Soon after I passed the mile 2 marker on the side of a portapotty. The problem was that I should have been at 3 miles. Did they put the wrong sign up or did they drop this portapotty at the wrong spot? The same thing happened at mile 4, but by then GPS had returned. Looking at the data after the race, I'm certain it was using the Stryd for distance the entire time. In the moment, I knew I was close to my goal pace, but wasn't confident how far off it was. In the grand scheme of things, it wasn't the end of the world - about a 5 minute difference in the final result. The problem was that I didn't want an inaccurate idea of my present pace to cost me a BQ.

At mile 5, the mile markers started to match reality and we finally reached the Burke-Gilman Trail, which is relatively flat compared to the rest of the course. At this point I was slightly behind where I wanted to be, but slowly catching up. When I hit the first turnaround at mile 11.9, I was on track. I made a mental note when I hit mile 13. No official split, but my pace was sufficient that it would have been a PR prior to this training cycle and I was about right where I wanted to be. Mile 16 put me into unknown territory, as I was now running farther than I ever had in my life and I was doing it at a BQ pace!

My enthusiasm was short-lived. My pace slipped slightly during miles 17 and 18, but I chalked it up to a slight incline. By mile 20 it was clear that I just didn't have the endurance to maintain my goal pace. I spent most of my last 3 miles entirely focused on "keep running". I KNEW if I stopped to walk I'd never start going again. There were a couple of bright spots towards the end of the race. Even exhausted and dealing with the biggest hill in the race (about 200 ft over a mile and a half), I still managed to run the last 4.8 miles at a 8:17 pace. Plus, I was able to get back to sub-8:00 pace for the last quarter mile when the 3:25 pacers passed me up just shy of mile 26. It made me feel a bit better about my finish. In the end, I finished with a 3:24:39 - a mere 5 minutes shy of my (admittedly overoptimistic) goal time.

I didn't make my goal time and the last few miles were painful, but my first marathon was a huge success. Chronic problems with plantar fasciitis had left me with hardly any training at all for the past few years. A year ago, my goal was to lose weight and finish a marathon. It felt good to crush both of those goals!

Awesome job and what a great first marathon time and experience!

 

[jmasgat]

ATTQOTD: I would still consider it a race - a race to get a medal.

So, is anyone considering Chicago (lottery or guaranteed)??? I have an opportunity to run for a charity that I'm passionate about, so I think I'm in.

I can get in guaranteed...but only 2 days left to decide!

 

[camaker]

ATTQOTD: I would still consider it a race - a race to get a medal.

So, is anyone considering Chicago (lottery or guaranteed)??? I have an opportunity to run for a charity that I'm passionate about, so I think I'm in.

I'm still on the fence on Chicago. I ran it this year and enjoyed the race and would like to do it again. I'm waiting to hear from the Berlin lottery first, though, before I decide whether to enter the Chicago lottery. I'd have to say I'm leaning away from it right now, though, just due to the expense...

 

[Kerry1957]

Fantastic Marathon report Dusty!! "Huge success" is an understatement. Having recently finished my first in just under 6 hours, I can't imagine someone running their first under 3:25. Will there be a number 2 where you achieve your BQ finish?

 

[LSUlakes]

Seattle Marathon

Sunday I finally made good on a decade-long goal of completing a marathon. I've registered for a few in the past, but I had an ill-conceived training concept that left me chronically injured. This time around, I followed the Hansons beginner program. I had an outstanding training cycle that made huge improvements on my endurance and pace. More importantly, I made it through without getting injured!

The Seattle Marathon is run every year on the Sunday after Thanksgiving. I've done the half a few times and the elevation profile can be intimidating, but this year introduced a new course. The old course would take you south toward Seward Park and then the marathon would go east on I-90 toward Mercer Island and back before going over Capitol Hill. Construction on I-90 to install a light rail system mandated changing the route. This year they didn't go as far south and put most of the course on the Burke-Gilman Trail (a local rails-to-trails project) with a couple of out-and-backs. The change resulted in an elevation profile reduction from 1,468 feet to 1,165 feet.

I set out with a goal to finish in a Boston-qualifying 3:20. I knew this was an aggressive goal, but I had been able to handle the pace during training even in the midst of cumulative fatigue. The first few miles were a touch slow, but I was confident I'd make it up later and didn't want to use too much energy weaving through the field. After a few miles I was up to goal marathon pace and somewhere midway between the 3:15 and 3:25 pacers (alas, there were no 3:20 pacers to use as a guide during this race).

My first challenge in the race was concern about monitoring pacing. I use iSmoothRun on an Apple Watch Series 3 and a Stryd footpod. Although Stryd advertises that it's more accurate than GPS out of the box and requires no calibration, I've found that it consistently measures my runs shorter than I actually ran - something I noted during the Poulsbo Half Marathon in September and verified the following morning on a local track. On shorter runs, it wasn't even noticeable. On my half, it had me 0.35 miles short of what other runners were getting on their watch and 0.45 miles short of a half marathon. Rather than go through a lot of effort adjusting the footpod in the middle of a training cycle, I just kept training at the same pace and adjusted my expected pace during the marathon by 10s. Once I hit the I-5 express lanes, my watch lost GPS and gave me a "GPS signal lost, switching to accelerometer" alert. Wait, does that mean that it didn't connect to the Stryd? Am I looking at distances from the Stryd or the accelerometer in the watch? Soon after I passed the mile 2 marker on the side of a portapotty. The problem was that I should have been at 3 miles. Did they put the wrong sign up or did they drop this portapotty at the wrong spot? The same thing happened at mile 4, but by then GPS had returned. Looking at the data after the race, I'm certain it was using the Stryd for distance the entire time. In the moment, I knew I was close to my goal pace, but wasn't confident how far off it was. In the grand scheme of things, it wasn't the end of the world - about a 5 minute difference in the final result. The problem was that I didn't want an inaccurate idea of my present pace to cost me a BQ.

At mile 5, the mile markers started to match reality and we finally reached the Burke-Gilman Trail, which is relatively flat compared to the rest of the course. At this point I was slightly behind where I wanted to be, but slowly catching up. When I hit the first turnaround at mile 11.9, I was on track. I made a mental note when I hit mile 13. No official split, but my pace was sufficient that it would have been a PR prior to this training cycle and I was about right where I wanted to be. Mile 16 put me into unknown territory, as I was now running farther than I ever had in my life and I was doing it at a BQ pace!

My enthusiasm was short-lived. My pace slipped slightly during miles 17 and 18, but I chalked it up to a slight incline. By mile 20 it was clear that I just didn't have the endurance to maintain my goal pace. I spent most of my last 3 miles entirely focused on "keep running". I KNEW if I stopped to walk I'd never start going again. There were a couple of bright spots towards the end of the race. Even exhausted and dealing with the biggest hill in the race (about 200 ft over a mile and a half), I still managed to run the last 4.8 miles at a 8:17 pace. Plus, I was able to get back to sub-8:00 pace for the last quarter mile when the 3:25 pacers passed me up just shy of mile 26. It made me feel a bit better about my finish. In the end, I finished with a 3:24:39 - a mere 5 minutes shy of my (admittedly overoptimistic) goal time.

I didn't make my goal time and the last few miles were painful, but my first marathon was a huge success. Chronic problems with plantar fasciitis had left me with hardly any training at all for the past few years. A year ago, my goal was to lose weight and finish a marathon. It felt good to crush both of those goals!

Thats a great first marathon and something to be really excited about. Congrats!!!

 

[FFigawi]

QOTD: Todays question is based on a current situation I have. This Saturday is the Baton Rouge Beach Half Marathon! The bad news, is this race is no longer an "official" race. What I mean by that, is there is no registration and it's a open course. The reason the race is shut down make me sad and of course Louisiana politics are doing what they do here, which allow the for profit race to kill the little guy here. So anyway, the local running store is having a unofficial running of the race on it's scheduled date. Everyone will start together and the first 100 finishers get a medal. Water stops are also available. My question is, can this event count as a race? No bibs or official timing either.

I know I'm in the minority, but I wouldn't call it a race. There's no official timing at all, not even popsicle sticks. I'd view it as a (large) group training run.

 

[OldSlowGoofyGuy]

I know I'm in the minority, but I wouldn't call it a race.

Agree. My rule is a race equals eligible as POT, meaning it doesn't have to be chip timed or a USATF certified course, but it does have to publish results.

 

[Waiting2goback]

This might be a repeat but this is where I am with being refocused on losing some weight.

 

[LSUlakes]

QOTD: At what point in training do you feel like you are prepared for a race? Is it covering a distance, pace, MPW, ect?

ATTQOTD: This answer varies depending on distance and time goals. Since there are so many options I will focus my answer towards my marathon in January. Since I have been a slacker and just recently getting things moving the last few weeks, the long runs build confidence. Last weekend I covered 18 miles. Now it was not a great run, but my attitude was to just get the miles in and not worry about pace or and walk breaks. My goal was simply to cover the distance. That was a big confidence booster for me. This week is only 13 miles and my goal is to keep the pace under 10 min/mi. The two weekends after that I have back to back 20 milers. My goal for the first one is to complete it, much in the same way as the 18 miler. That second one, my goal is also to complete it, but with fewer walk breaks. If the two 20 milers go well I will have a much better feeling about the marathon and my ability to complete it and still be able to function afterwards.

 

[Capang]

ATTQOTD: when I cross the finish line.
I'm high anxiety all the time. I feel more confident when I get close to the race mileage in training but I never feel fully ready. For anything ever, really.

 

[rteetz]

QOTD: At what point in training do you feel like you are prepared for a race? Is it covering a distance, pace, MPW, ect?

I think probably distacne. If I reach a certain distance I feel good to go.

 

[Slogger]

ATTQOTD-maintaining pace and effort for the entire run and feeling like I've still got something left in the tank.

 

[camaker]

QOTD: At what point in training do you feel like you are prepared for a race? Is it covering a distance, pace, MPW, ect?

ATTQOTD: I'm always nervous before a race, regardless of distance or pace goals that I have for it, so this is a difficult question to answer from an emotional standpoint, especially for the marathon distance. From an intellectual standpoint, I know that I'm well-prepared for a half marathon when I get to a 10 mile long run in training. Confidence in my ability to maintain pace varies based on how successful pacing during training has been and what the environmental conditions turn out to be on race day. For marathons, it's a bit different. I ran my first marathon on very little training due to injury (10-12 mile long run max), so completing that has given me a lot of confidence that I can complete the marathon if training has gone reasonably well. Since I have used @DopeyBadger plans for all but one of my marathons, my confidence in hitting marathon pacing goals is tied to how well I've been able to meet the pace goals that he has set during training.

 

[PkbaughAR]

ATTQOTD:I think it depends on my goals for the race. If I’m racing for a specific time, then my pacing during training becomes as important as distance. Otherwise, covering the distance makes me believe I can at least finish the race!

 

[JeffW]

ATTQOTD: When I have a long run where I completely hit the wall before I'm done with it. It may sound strange, but I've found in almost every training cycle that somewhere in the 16-20 mile long run range, I have one where the wheels just completely fall off. The first couple of times this happened, it really made me worried. But I've eventually come to the realization that it is an indicator that I've pushed, found my current limits, and am now going beyond them.

 

[Kerry1957]

Race vs run is not an issue for me. I'm slow enough and laid back enough to call everything a run, even when going all out for a PR. I also run trail events where the distance is approximate so chiptime/watch time and short/long is not really much of a consideration.