The Running Thread - 2018

Not sure if the info is on the site, but they used to have official Clif pace groups, but they changed over to Galloway pace groups I think last year?
I think 2016 was the last year Clifbar paced WDW. I know someone who paces for Clifbar and sadly, this is the last year for the existence of the Clifbar pace team.

I have never ran with a pace team on purpose. In some of my early marathons, I have crossed paths with a pace group and stayed with them, until one of us moved on (or I fell back!). I think a pace group is incredibly valuable if you are trying to reach a certain time. It isn't for me though--I prefer the solitude.

In Chicago this year, I knew I was ahead of the 3 hour group. I can't remember the exact point, but they caught up to me somewhere after the 1/2 way point. OMG, that group was huge. Like hundreds of people in it. I know I slowed down (more than I already had) so they would get away from me. It was like the beginning of a race with elbows and wall to wall people.

Locally, at The Flying Pig, the pace groups are much smaller and much more intimate. Some of the faster paces end up with only the pacer left because everyone else fell off. They also have a pacer for the half marathon running the same as the full but they separate around the 9 mile mark.

I have been pace group leader for marathon training groups through Fleet Feet. I look at my watch NONSTOP. Once I was pacing the 9-9:30 group and our first mile was so slow, like 10:30-11. I kept speeding up to get it down and was wondering why this felt hard. I guess my watch hadn't found GPS yet so my pace was screwed up. I looked back and my group was staggered at least 50 feet behind me and no one was talking. I waited for them and one of them asked if we could slow down a little since we were running a 7:20 something mile. Yes, I felt like an idiot and learned to always wait for the GPS.
 
QOTD: I ran with the pace groups up to MK during both the half and full this year. Kept me from going out too fast, plus calmed the nerves. I’m pretty impressed with how spot-on the Disney Galloway pacers are. It helps they run in pairs, have clear guidelines and have to be approved by the Galloway group.

I ran for a while with the 2:15 pacer during a half in Greenville last spring but the group pulled away (I was hoping for a sub-2:20). Ran into him around mile 9, totally confused (I was right on target and ended up passing him). He had gotten off track, couldn’t figure out how get back, sent everyone on their way — but was stuck wearing the pacer shirt and holding the sign.
 
ATTQOTD race with pace: I often started a race with a pacer, to make sure that I or my DD weren’t going too fast. There is usually a race plan to drop them at some point. I actually never finished a race with the pacer!

Actually, at my last race, the pacer was clear about maintaining a constant effort, not a constant pace i.e slow down slightly on moderate climbs, accelerate on descent (and reminding runners not to block their knees) and get a two minutes buffer for the last big ascent.
 
ATTQOTD: I have used pace groups in the past when I was focused on a specific pace goal. But I found that I am more of a solo runnner and don’t like to be mixed up in a group of same pace folks and prefer to run by feel. However, at Detroit a few years back I used a pace group for much of the middle part of the marathon. With the ways the corrals worked I was not near the pace group and had to work to catch them. It took several miles, but then I was able to settle into their pace and I held with them until about mile 20 when I sped up a bit. I PR’d that day so they definitely help.

You are braver than me. I am so worried about twisting my ankles that I would be afraid to do trail runs. Have you discussed the 100 mile race with your doctor? My doctor told me I shouldn't be running anything more than a 10k anymore.

Just wanted to say thanks for the feedback. I am working with a doctor who knows my running history and future goals. You are right that 100 miles is a lofty goal and may not be attainable this coming fall. But I am going to try, paying attention to my ankle and how it responds along the way as mileage increases. Trail races have always been much kinder to me that street races anyway - I run slower, enjoy the moment more and have found the terrain to be more forgiving to my body. Ironically the fall that led to this injury was on the street and only a few months post a couple of pretty technical trail races. I am going to go after that 100 my buckle, but to your point, I will let my ankle “lead the way” so to speak. Happy to hear you are running without pain now. This injury stuff sucks!
 

ATTQOTD: I haven’t used pacers, but have thought about it. Mainly because I have a tendency to go out to fast.
 
ATTQOTD: I actually suggested this question and really appreciate everyone’s answers! I like the idea of keeping a pace group in sight for a visual reference. I always run by myself, so I’m definitely not looking for a chatty neighbor. I’ll also be sure to ask what their pacing strategy is for the race!
 
ATTQOTD: I ran for a little while with the 1:45 pacer in my marathon. I think it was a positive experience, first there was only like 10 people in the group, so wasn't crazy. It was a bit of a stretch pace for me (or so I thought), but in the end it probably kept me from going too hard in the middle miles, which allowed me to finish strong once I decided to pass him after mile 10.
 
QOTD: A fellow poster suggested todays question, so thank you for the idea! Lets discuss running a race with a pace group. What are the pros and cons of running with a pace group?

ATTQOTD: I have run a few races with a pace group and have had positive experiences with them. Each time I have done so It was nice to just follow the group and not worry much about pace, which is a positive. The negative could be your pacer has a bad day and cant keep the pace for whatever reason, then you are on your own. Overall I think its a good idea to run with a group if they are running at your goal pace, but dont put 100% trust in them. Most of them can run the pace group fairly easily. What I mean is if they are running a 8:30 pace, their race pace is probably closer to 7:00 - 7:30 range. The 3:05:00 marathon pace group would typically have a person that can run 2:50:00 ish. Some pace groups travel from race to race and have a web page where you can read about each pacer and what they have done so far. Some races have less formal pacers and it can be hit or miss for them.


ATTQOTD: I have never actually run with a pace group, but I use them for motivation. For example, I will start out ahead of a certain pace group and do my best to keep them behind me, or more often, I will start out behind a group, keep them in my sights and then try to pass late in the race.

I have never run with a pace group. I have done what @michigandergirl has done and I started behind one and just tried to keep them in front of me with the intention of passing them later. It was my first marathon and the plan didn't work. I was doing well until my hamstrings locked up in me and then I was walking and they were quickly out of my sight.


ATTQOTD: I have used pace groups in the past when I was focused on a specific pace goal. But I found that I am more of a solo runnner and don’t like to be mixed up in a group of same pace folks and prefer to run by feel. However, at Detroit a few years back I used a pace group for much of the middle part of the marathon. With the ways the corrals worked I was not near the pace group and had to work to catch them. It took several miles, but then I was able to settle into their pace and I held with them until about mile 20 when I sped up a bit. I PR’d that day so they definitely help.



Just wanted to say thanks for the feedback. I am working with a doctor who knows my running history and future goals. You are right that 100 miles is a lofty goal and may not be attainable this coming fall. But I am going to try, paying attention to my ankle and how it responds along the way as mileage increases. Trail races have always been much kinder to me that street races anyway - I run slower, enjoy the moment more and have found the terrain to be more forgiving to my body. Ironically the fall that led to this injury was on the street and only a few months post a couple of pretty technical trail races. I am going to go after that 100 my buckle, but to your point, I will let my ankle “lead the way” so to speak. Happy to hear you are running without pain now. This injury stuff sucks!

Oh, I do t run pain free. Nope! As I have said in the past, I had a lot of trouble that first year after my surgery getting back into things because my ankle hurt so much. I was sure he did something wrong (and he still may have) because I can feel the tendon the whole time. It is tight and it burns. I can feel the burning all the way up my leg. That's why I finally went back last October and he did another MRI to check it. What he explained is, the tendon kept slipping out of place and when it did the rubbing on the bone over time is what caused it to wear away. So he made the groove deeper in the bone and tightened the tendon more so it wouldn't slip out of place knowing I planned to keep running. So he said it will always hurt because it is tight. It hurts less the more I run because everything gets stronger but it still hurts. It's just more annoying than anything. Not enough to get me to stop. Like when I run a 1/2 or longer is just feels like a match is on my skin from my ankle to mid calf. :rolleyes1 My right ankle needs to be done too but it hurts less than my repaired ankle so I will keep running until it breaks and then get it fixed. :scared:
 
(Yesterday’s) QOTD: I don’t run with them but I do use them as reference points. I do have a Garmin now so I know my actual pacing but it’s nice to settle in between two pacing groups so you know you won’t be engulfed by one of them.
 
QOTD: Todays question is based on a current situation I have. This Saturday is the Baton Rouge Beach Half Marathon! The bad news, is this race is no longer an "official" race. What I mean by that, is there is no registration and it's a open course. The reason the race is shut down make me sad and of course Louisiana politics are doing what they do here, which allow the for profit race to kill the little guy here. So anyway, the local running store is having a unofficial running of the race on it's scheduled date. Everyone will start together and the first 100 finishers get a medal. Water stops are also available. My question is, can this event count as a race? No bibs or official timing either.

ATTQOTD: I want to consider it a race, but will treat it as a training run for the day. Just deciding if I should put it on the list in the OP.
 
QOTD: Todays question is based on a current situation I have. This Saturday is the Baton Rouge Beach Half Marathon! The bad news, is this race is no longer an "official" race. What I mean by that, is there is no registration and it's a open course. The reason the race is shut down make me sad and of course Louisiana politics are doing what they do here, which allow the for profit race to kill the little guy here. So anyway, the local running store is having a unofficial running of the race on it's scheduled date. Everyone will start together and the first 100 finishers get a medal. Water stops are also available. My question is, can this event count as a race? No bibs or official timing either.
I guess it could count as a race. It's a large group of people running to a specified finish with water stops, and the possibility for medals. I would count that as a race. If there was no water, no chance at medals I would say it's not a race. It depends on how you define a race.
 
Sucks about the race no longer being an official race :( I would think it still counts as a race if it is an organized event that has people competing against each other to finish first.
 
Shoe update... So I've been running in Saucony Guides ever since I began running in 2014. They worked really well for me. But for some reason they began to feel tight, especially in the right foot. I experimented with different ways of lacing and it helped, but the shoe still felt tight across the toes. So I went back to the running store just to see if I could get the Guides in a wide. The guy at the store insisted on fitting me again (thankfully) and apparently my feet have kind of changed shape. I still pronate but my arches are higher than they used to be for some reason. I tried on a couple different shoes and have ended up switching over to the Brooks Adrenaline. So far, so good. They feel a lot better. So, lesson learned. Even if you've been wearing the same shoe forever, it makes sense periodically to get re-fitted and see if things are different.
 
ATTQOTD: I would still count it. I had this same issue and deliberation a few months ago because I am trying to run 12 half marathons this year. Unfortunately my October half marathon in Seaside, FL was cancelled due to Hurricane Michael. We still went to Seaside, I still ran the same 13.1 mile route of the course as a marathon training run, and I still got my medal so I decided to count it (after some serious debate and asking opinions on here). It stinks that there is no official time and you could never use it for POT or anything, but I'd definitely count it!
 
QOTD: Todays question is based on a current situation I have. This Saturday is the Baton Rouge Beach Half Marathon! The bad news, is this race is no longer an "official" race. What I mean by that, is there is no registration and it's a open course. The reason the race is shut down make me sad and of course Louisiana politics are doing what they do here, which allow the for profit race to kill the little guy here. So anyway, the local running store is having a unofficial running of the race on it's scheduled date. Everyone will start together and the first 100 finishers get a medal. Water stops are also available. My question is, can this event count as a race? No bibs or official timing either.
ATTQOTD: I think you get to count it as whatever you want! But in terms of something "official", like what would be needed for PoT, for example, IDK - are they timing it?
 
ATTQOTD: I think you get to count it as whatever you want! But in terms of something "official", like what would be needed for PoT, for example, IDK - are they timing it?

The store owns a clock, but I am not sure if they are going to bring it out or not. Having one out there could create a liability issue I guess as making it a more official thing, but without permits. The race that is one of the main reasons this race is no longer permitted is the same day, but only a 10k. It also uses some of the same routes. The guys with the $$ got the permits, while the towns oldest marathon for charity did not. Makes me really mad!
 
Seattle Marathon

Sunday I finally made good on a decade-long goal of completing a marathon. I've registered for a few in the past, but I had an ill-conceived training concept that left me chronically injured. This time around, I followed the Hansons beginner program. I had an outstanding training cycle that made huge improvements on my endurance and pace. More importantly, I made it through without getting injured!

The Seattle Marathon is run every year on the Sunday after Thanksgiving. I've done the half a few times and the elevation profile can be intimidating, but this year introduced a new course. The old course would take you south toward Seward Park and then the marathon would go east on I-90 toward Mercer Island and back before going over Capitol Hill. Construction on I-90 to install a light rail system mandated changing the route. This year they didn't go as far south and put most of the course on the Burke-Gilman Trail (a local rails-to-trails project) with a couple of out-and-backs. The change resulted in an elevation profile reduction from 1,468 feet to 1,165 feet.

I set out with a goal to finish in a Boston-qualifying 3:20. I knew this was an aggressive goal, but I had been able to handle the pace during training even in the midst of cumulative fatigue. The first few miles were a touch slow, but I was confident I'd make it up later and didn't want to use too much energy weaving through the field. After a few miles I was up to goal marathon pace and somewhere midway between the 3:15 and 3:25 pacers (alas, there were no 3:20 pacers to use as a guide during this race).

My first challenge in the race was concern about monitoring pacing. I use iSmoothRun on an Apple Watch Series 3 and a Stryd footpod. Although Stryd advertises that it's more accurate than GPS out of the box and requires no calibration, I've found that it consistently measures my runs shorter than I actually ran - something I noted during the Poulsbo Half Marathon in September and verified the following morning on a local track. On shorter runs, it wasn't even noticeable. On my half, it had me 0.35 miles short of what other runners were getting on their watch and 0.45 miles short of a half marathon. Rather than go through a lot of effort adjusting the footpod in the middle of a training cycle, I just kept training at the same pace and adjusted my expected pace during the marathon by 10s. Once I hit the I-5 express lanes, my watch lost GPS and gave me a "GPS signal lost, switching to accelerometer" alert. Wait, does that mean that it didn't connect to the Stryd? Am I looking at distances from the Stryd or the accelerometer in the watch? Soon after I passed the mile 2 marker on the side of a portapotty. The problem was that I should have been at 3 miles. Did they put the wrong sign up or did they drop this portapotty at the wrong spot? The same thing happened at mile 4, but by then GPS had returned. Looking at the data after the race, I'm certain it was using the Stryd for distance the entire time. In the moment, I knew I was close to my goal pace, but wasn't confident how far off it was. In the grand scheme of things, it wasn't the end of the world - about a 5 minute difference in the final result. The problem was that I didn't want an inaccurate idea of my present pace to cost me a BQ.

At mile 5, the mile markers started to match reality and we finally reached the Burke-Gilman Trail, which is relatively flat compared to the rest of the course. At this point I was slightly behind where I wanted to be, but slowly catching up. When I hit the first turnaround at mile 11.9, I was on track. I made a mental note when I hit mile 13. No official split, but my pace was sufficient that it would have been a PR prior to this training cycle and I was about right where I wanted to be. Mile 16 put me into unknown territory, as I was now running farther than I ever had in my life and I was doing it at a BQ pace!

My enthusiasm was short-lived. My pace slipped slightly during miles 17 and 18, but I chalked it up to a slight incline. By mile 20 it was clear that I just didn't have the endurance to maintain my goal pace. I spent most of my last 3 miles entirely focused on "keep running". I KNEW if I stopped to walk I'd never start going again. There were a couple of bright spots towards the end of the race. Even exhausted and dealing with the biggest hill in the race (about 200 ft over a mile and a half), I still managed to run the last 4.8 miles at a 8:17 pace. Plus, I was able to get back to sub-8:00 pace for the last quarter mile when the 3:25 pacers passed me up just shy of mile 26. It made me feel a bit better about my finish. In the end, I finished with a 3:24:39 - a mere 5 minutes shy of my (admittedly overoptimistic) goal time.

I didn't make my goal time and the last few miles were painful, but my first marathon was a huge success. Chronic problems with plantar fasciitis had left me with hardly any training at all for the past few years. A year ago, my goal was to lose weight and finish a marathon. It felt good to crush both of those goals!
 












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