The Running Thread - 2018

[TheHamm]

QOTD: How do you determine what your goal is for a race? How far out do you make your decision?

Per a post a few weeks ago, I have no idea how to pick a goal for a race other than "I dunno, finish? Maybe faster than last time?"
For my next race, I want a time based on DB's corral calculations, and I do not think I can make it, so I am not sure I should even pick a target. it would take me running .2 miles faster than my PR, and about 3-4 minutes short of a daily run, so I realize it is perhaps not reasonable.
As someone who awkwardly answered the question "so you run?" with "sometimes," I think it is fair to say I am uncomfortable with all of the running stuff, but I apparently enjoy it enough to keep it up. Perhaps sometime I will feel comfortable enough to reply to the 'so you run' question without wincing and just commit to a training plan that schedules runs to hit those imaginary target? At that point perhaps I can determine a goal for a race?

 

[Waiting2goback]

QOTD: How do you determine what your goal is for a race? How far out do you make your decision?

ATTQOTD: I go with a combination of recent race results and my fitness level. I usually make my initial goal for a race once I register for it, and then will adjust it if needed based on how training has gone the week of the race.

For the last couple of years since my surgery I have been sort of floating around with no goals, other than to finish. I have recently found my motivation again and will be back to setting goals. I have a 1/2 on 9/30. I would love to be under 2:00 but I just don't think I am at that point yet. So my goal will be decided as I get closer in this case.

Yesterday ATTQOTD: Sometimes I try to add a little extra mileage to the week, but most of the time I just pull an Elsa and let it go. (Just I'm a lot more annoyed about it than Elsa is)

Today ATTQOTD: I feel like this is one of the few places where I can say this and a few people will understand it ... I don't really set goals. Usually it's just finish. Sometimes it's more about having a good time. Occasionally I'll set a continuous running goal or a time goal, but here's a secret: I've only set a serious time goal once and I didn't reach it*. I have another serious time goal for my next race, and I'm terrified I won't reach it because I never have before. I hate the fact that I'm so scared of this goal. Which is part of why I don't like to set goals ...

Which reminds me. @LSUlakes, when you get a chance, can you update my goal for my 9/30 race (Bronx 10 Mile) to 1:45:00? I'm trying to squeak into corral D for the marathon. Thanks!

*I actually had time goals twice before, but the second time was with a pacer and was a much less aggressive goal, so I don't really count it

See, this is where I differ from other runners. I don't enjoy "scary" goals. I'm not interested in being faster. Maybe sometimes going further, but only if there's a specific reason for it. I run because I run. I don't run to be a better runner. It's why I have such a hard time relating to other runners most of the time - I don't enjoy pushing myself to reach new goals (whether they're easy to reach or not) and most people don't understand that. I don't run to take myself out of my comfort zone - I run because it's one of the few things I can do where I can stay in my comfort zone and still feel like I'm accomplishing something. Which is why time goals scare me so much - they take me out of my comfort zone and into an area that isn't my normal running mentality, and I don't know that I'm okay with that.

In my opinion it is all in how you look at a goal, or how you frame it to yourself, that determines if it is scary. Instead of giving yourself a time goal and making it scary you can fool your brain and say, "I am going to run this race as fast as possible so I can be done with the race as fast as possible." Then you haven't failed regardless of your finish time because you ran as fast as you could that day, for example. When you finish you will see how fast you could run THAT DAY. There may come a day in the future that you can run faster, there may not.

And someone said something on the previous page about did we really fail if we don't reach our goal. I didn't quote it but I wish I did. I think it depends on how you look at it. If you allow yourself to say you failed then you failed. I think it is OK to be disappointed in missing a goal but are any of us really failures in here? I don't think so. Having been on here for a few years with some of these guys I know their stories. Take @DopeyBadger for example. He started out running to lose weight and set an example for his daughter. Now he has a goal of a BQ. He hasn't made it yet but is he a failure? In my opinion I would say no way. He lost his weight, he has set an example for his daughter, and look how many people he has helped become better on just this thread alone. He hasn't reached his goal yet, and he will some day, but he is no failure.

We have people that have completed a full Ironman (John), run Boston, come back from injury, dealt with family deaths or illnesses, and they keep running. There are no failures here!

This is fitting today. I did an "easy" 4.5 miles today. Except it wasn't easy. It was one of those runs that hurt and was a struggle the whole time. I was thinking the whole time how frustrated I was and it hit me when I finished, "What are you bit--ing about, you just ran 4.5 miles today and most people couldn't dream of doing that right now". It's all about perspective.

 

[Waiting2goback]

This is what the man has to say about failing!

 

[KingLlama]

ATTQOTD: I don't set time goals because of all the variables from course to course and race to race. The only exception is for races I run at a beautiful local horse racing track. I've run two 5's and a 10 there, and since the layout is the same for each of the 5's, I have no problem setting a time goal for those. Will do the same for the 10 there in December. But for all other races? Finish upright, and finish before they take the bananas and water away.

RANDOM QUESTION: So I'm back in the saddle on my running plan, and I'm trying to do 10,000 steps a day overall. Finding that I'm getting little aches in my feet that aren't severe, just nagging. Is there a problem with just popping an Ibuprofen immediately after my morning runs/walks? I have a friend who does it and says it really helps him stay on track every day. Does anyone else do it to prevent/eliminate general soreness?

 

[LSUlakes]

RANDOM QUESTION: So I'm back in the saddle on my running plan, and I'm trying to do 10,000 steps a day overall. Finding that I'm getting little aches in my feet that aren't severe, just nagging. Is there a problem with just popping an Ibuprofen immediately after my morning runs/walks? I have a friend who does it and says it really helps him stay on track every day. Does anyone else do it to prevent/eliminate general soreness?

I try to avoid taking meds as much as possible especially when it comes to running. The problem with it imo is that you could be covering up a bigger issue and its better to address the issue while its minor. When the meds no longer work, you are dealing with something thats more long lasting. So try to figure out whats causing the pain and try to correct it. If its just sore muscles, just keep going. If its something other than muscle its best to fix it now instead of later. Having said that I have made a exception to this rule once or twice. I was having major foot pain due to inflammation. The solution was to rest, but my race was less than 2 weeks out. I reduced mileage by a lot and took meds to up to the point of the race. After the race I took enough time off for things the heal on its own.

 

[LSUlakes]

QOTD: Do you have a rule or guideline you go by to increase weekly mileage? How about for your long run distance?

ATTQOTD: This is going to be one of those "do as I say and not as I do" type answers. The rule I have always been told is to not increase by more than 10% per week and every 4-5 weeks have a recovery week. As of late I have gone up by as much as 15%. It's a risky move on my part that could backfire, but being that I have covered these distances before and its not my first time getting to these distances I feel somewhat comfortable doing what I am doing, but at the same time I wont be surprised if I end up with something bothering me down the road.
Regarding the long runs. I've been told that the long run should not account for more than ~40-50% of your weekly totals. That figure may be off some, but it makes sense to me. It would seem like a bad idea to have 35 miles for the week and 20 of it being from the long run.

 

[Barca33Runner]

RANDOM QUESTION: So I'm back in the saddle on my running plan, and I'm trying to do 10,000 steps a day overall. Finding that I'm getting little aches in my feet that aren't severe, just nagging. Is there a problem with just popping an Ibuprofen immediately after my morning runs/walks? I have a friend who does it and says it really helps him stay on track every day. Does anyone else do it to prevent/eliminate general soreness?

I have not taken any NSAIDs for four years. I had a torn rotator cuff at that time and was prescribed Naproxen for the pain. I don't take pain medication normally, but the pain in my shoulder was excruciating to the point I wasn't sleeping. Anyway, I never took more than the prescribed dose, but two weeks later I was passed out at work and was rushed to the hospital with internal bleeding from an ulcer that had formed as a result of a reaction from the medication. I was fortunate that someone was in the office with me when I passed out as I am normally alone at work. ETA: This is important because the bleeding had become so extensive so quickly that I was very close to death even with the quick response.

Now, plenty of people take NSAIDs and have no issue, I was probably just unlucky. I will also state the caveat that I am not a doctor and am not portraying myself as one. That said, getting into a habit of taking medication that isn't necessary doesn't seem like a great idea. I'm sure there will be days when an ibuprofen will be appropriate, but I don't think I'd do it when I'm not experiencing pain just because it's part of a plan.

 

[TheHamm]

QOTD: Do you have a rule or guideline you go by to increase weekly mileage? How about for your long run distance?

I am interested to see the answers to this.
My running goal for the summer was that I could increase my mileage and that would make me faster, without worrying about targeting paces. I also wanted to move to running 4x/week to see if I might be comfortable with a more focused training plan. So, with this in mind, my plan was to add a mile to a long run each week, and be flexible about the other 3 runs. This has somewhat happened, but with adding in another 3 mile run/week, it ended up being more than 10% for a few weeks. I was a bit concerned about this, but honestly, it has been fine for me. I feel good about the runs, but sadly I am not really getting faster, but the longer runs are getting easier so it is some sort of progress. At this point, the challenge is carving out enough time to make it past 7 miles for a long run. Summer has been packed with so much other fun, and I really cannot seem to drag myself out the door early enough to get it all in.

On a more positive note, there have been a few days where the humidity broke (i.e. it was raining) mid afternoon. I was so excited about the cooler temps I went out twice in one day last week, so I anticipated my legs would be a bit tired from the morning 3 but with similar weather and similar elevation gains, the second 3 miles were 1m/m faster without really altering my effort. As it is rare that the weather conditions yield the same temperature and humidity at 6am and at noon, I would love to repeat this experiment. Was it being more awake? Fed? Wearing headphones because I was on a closed track? All fascinating to me.

 

[PCFriar80]

QOTD: Do you have a rule or guideline you go by to increase weekly mileage? How about for your long run distance?

I use a monthly guideline to manage my increase in mileage. Since coming off achilles tendinitis I've been diligent in managing my miles and increasing by 10 - 20% from month to month. My weekly totals remain constant with a slight increase in mileage on my Saturday runs. Right now I'm up to 50 miles per month [August] and will strive for 60 in September ahead of my 12 week plan beginning in October for 1/2 marathon training.
I will probably cap out at 70 - 80 miles a month before the 1/2 and revert back to the 50 - 60 per month after that. I've become more disciplined in managing my distance and incorporating cross-training and rest days in to my plan/schedule.

 

[Chaitali]

@TheHamm Interesting experiment! My afternoon/evening runs have often been faster than my morning runs and my first mile is always super slow on my morning runs and sometimes I think it's just because my body is taking a while to wake up? My weekday morning runs are basically me rolling out of bed, getting dressed and out the door so it's generally only 15 minutes after waking up. So I guess the lack of fuel may play a part as well.

Today's question - I generally follow a training plan (previously Hal Higdon and now DopeyBadger) so I just increase distance based on the plan.

As far as the NSAIDS - I generally try to keep them for when there is a bigger issue causing pain, and in that case I would also pair it with rest. I try not to just cover the symptoms up but also try to address the cause. If it's a more generalized soreness type of thing... I'll try ice or an epsom salt bath instead.

As far as the failure comment earlier, I feel like we all have our big, long term reasons we run (medical reasons, helps maintain mental health, weight loss, maintaining physical fitness, etc.) and that those are generally served by just being consistent and continuing to run. If having scary goals with races and times helps keep someone engaged and running, then it makes sense to have them. If maintaining comfort in your running is what keeps someone engaged, that makes sense too. After all, most people have plenty of discomfort in their lift from other things and I can see where it would feel good to have running as a refuge that feels good. We all have different journeys and whatever works to keep us going is the right thing

 

[Capang]

ATTQOTD: whatever @DopeyBadger tells me to do

 

[Bree]

ATTQOTD: I do what my @DopeyBadger plan tells me to do. I'm sure there is some reasoning behind the mileage each week and that I've read it at some point, but right now I don't remember what it is

Pain relief....I rarely take anything including Tylenol and Motrin. I don't really have a good answer for it other than I just don't like to take the stuff

 

[PrincessV]

About goals, fear of failure, pushing for time, etc.... I think in many cases there's an age component to consider in there. At almost 50, my body has made it very clear that it's past its prime. I've used and abused it through a lifetime of ballet, and skiing, and soccer, and running, plus injuries, an autoimmune disease, and scoliosis, and it's simply never going to perform as well as it once did. And I'm okay with that. I just don't feel a need to be "better" on an ongoing basis. The fact that I can run at all, let alone finish a marathon in any amount of time, feels like an accomplishment. It wasn't always that way: I've been very, very competitive in athletic pursuits most of my life. But I'm just not there anymore... and TBH, I'm a lot happier with where I am now. If it weren't for not wanting to be in The World's Largest Corral anymore, I'd probably never run for time again lol!

 

[PrincessV]

QOTD: Do you have a rule or guideline you go by to increase weekly mileage? How about for your long run distance?

ATTQOTD: I follow the 10% "rule" and make my next long run week's total mileage no more than 10% more than my last long run week's total mileage. And I strictly adhere to cut-back weeks, where my long run is half the distance of the following week's long run (so, 5,10, 5.5, 11, 6, 12, etc.) Any faster build that that, and I've wound up injured and/or depleted.

 

[KSellers88]

ATTQOTD: Whatever my training plan says (originally used Hal Higdon's plans and now I am a @DopeyBadger believer!).

Pain relief...I take BCAAs and they seem to help me, but I don't really take anything else. I'll use Bengay sometimes before I go to sleep just to get some tension out of my muscles.

 

[kbenson13]

ATTQOTD: I do what my @DopeyBadger plan tells me to do. I'm sure there is some reasoning behind the mileage each week and that I've read it at some point, but right now I don't remember what it is

Ditto for me! I think my mileage has gone up more than 10% in certain weeks, though I haven't calculated it to be sure...

 

[GreatLakes]

QOTD: How do you determine what your goal is for a race? How far out do you make your decision?

Time of year and current fitness pay a large part. I always go into a full with the same goal, a BQ, but adjust if training shows I won't hit that goal. My last full was with a 1 year old and I just couldn't put in the time so even a few months out I knew I wasn't going to hit it.

Anything shorter than a half I always have the goal of an age group top 3 since I am fast enough to do that consistently.

Than I look at circumstances and set goals. For example, I have always wanted to get an age group award for a Disney race but up until now have only done halves and fulls and I generally don't place in the longer distances. I finished top 30 overall once but my age group was super competitive and I was 7th I think if memory serves. Now that they added 10ks, and looking at past results, I should be able to get top 3 in my age group in a 10k so that is my goal.

QOTD: Do you have a rule or guideline you go by to increase weekly mileage? How about for your long run distance?

I just listened to a podcast (Endurance Planet ask the coaches) that discussed this and the standard 10% rule. Their synopsis on the 10% rule is that it makes no sense unless you are elite and putting in 80 miles or more per week. If you are running 3 miles a run or 10 miles a week increasing 10% is way too little. They suggested going by feel and I concur. When I first started and could only run 1 mile I went from 1 to 1.25 to 2 to 2.5 to 3 in about 2 weeks. Now I generally increase my long run by about 2 miles a week when I'm ramping up and don't worry so much about my weekly mile increase provided I'm not feeling any pain.

RANDOM QUESTION: So I'm back in the saddle on my running plan, and I'm trying to do 10,000 steps a day overall. Finding that I'm getting little aches in my feet that aren't severe, just nagging. Is there a problem with just popping an Ibuprofen immediately after my morning runs/walks? I have a friend who does it and says it really helps him stay on track every day. Does anyone else do it to prevent/eliminate general soreness?

I am not a medical professional but remember hearing about NSAIDS and endurance events...specifically not to mix the two. I would go talk to a sports medicine specialist (I go to a DPT) and see what the root cause of the issue is. I've gone to my guy for a few niggling pains and each time he was able to actually assess the situation and give me some stretches and exercises to address the issue. As an example, I was having some lower back issues that were taken care of with a sciatic nerve floss stretch. Another issue I was having was fixed with some different foam rolling.

I'd let a pro take a look, it might be a simple fix that doesn't require popping a pill.

 

[rteetz]

QOTD: Do you have a rule or guideline you go by to increase weekly mileage? How about for your long run distance?

No rule really. I go based on what I am training for and fitness level.

 

[camaker]

QOTD: Do you have a rule or guideline you go by to increase weekly mileage? How about for your long run distance?

I try to adhere to the 10% rule, although this can be a little difficult in the early stages of a plan. Ultimately, though, I tend mostly to follow a plan designed by someone more experienced than myself, whether that's Hal Higdon or @DopeyBadger and let them define what is safe and appropriate based on experience.

Yesterday's discussion about goals was very interesting. It's always enlightening to see the variety of different drivers and motivators that different people use. Personally, I tend to be more of an "if I'm not moving forward, I'm moving backwards" person. So I'm constantly challenging myself to take the next step, whether that's distance, time or both. I need that stretch from where I am currently to keep me mentally engaged in the activity so that I don't stagnate.

 

[BikeFan]

ATTQOTD: Regarding mileage increases, I think the 10% rule is a poor guideline for most runners because it's far too conservative. For example, if you're a 20mpw runner, the 10% rule says you shouldn't add more than 2 miles. Most runners without a history of injuries can add much more than that. I've done increases of between 25-50% for years with no ill effects. Of greater importance is the intensity. When I add big chunks of mileage, they're all easy miles, and I don't do too much intensity in those ramp-up weeks. The best advice is to listen to your body and hear the signals it's sending you.

As for race goals, I respect everyone out there running, whether you're chasing a PR/BQ or just happy to finish. Everyone's motivations are different and no one should ever be embarrassed by their goals. I lean more toward the competitive side, but I've also had great races where I've run with friends and family, stopped for photos, had a beer (or two!), and generally just ignored my watch the whole time. All my races have been tremendous experiences in different ways, and mixing up my goals between "go fast" and "enjoy the experience" have kept me engaged as a runner. I will say this about having time goals, however - if you don't risk setting a "scary" goal, you'll never know what you're truly capable of doing. I've BQ'ed 4 times now, and I never would've thought that goal even possible had I not pushed myself in shorter races. Even after I'd successfully finished two marathons, I thought the whole BQ idea was ridiculous. Thomas Edison said "If we all did the things we are really capable of doing, we would literally astound ourselves." Priscilla Welch was a pack-a-day smoker and self-described "partier and couch potato" until she took up running for health reasons at age 35. She found she had a talent for it, and at age 42, she won the 1987 NYC Marathon. She also represented Great Britain in the marathon at the 1984 Olympic Games. None of us may ever win a World Marathon Major or go to the Olympics (but I could be wrong!), but we have potential we may barely have tapped.