The Running Thread - 2016

[rteetz]

QOTD: What role does self-doubt play in your running, if any? Does it keep you from trying a new distance or going for a certain time goal, for example?

I don't think it plays a huge role. I keep going bigger. I went from non-runner to 10K to Half to now Dopey. Now I don'tthink I would ever do a tri because the swimming worries me. I think I'll just stick to running for now and see where that goes.

 

[camaker]

QOTD: What role does self-doubt play in your running, if any? Does it keep you from trying a new distance or going for a certain time goal, for example?

Self-doubt has played a large role in my life over the years and starting to run semi-seriously has done a lot to help me move beyond that, to be honest. I was always a team sports, sprint-based athlete (when I was able to be an athlete). I viewed distance running as either impossible or too boring for me, depending on the circumstances at the time of the excuse. I thought I was totally crazy when I let my PT talk me into trying a Disney half marathon with him (W&D that neither of us got into, ironically enough). Once I ran my first timed 10k, though, I was hooked.

Self doubt still plays a role that I have to overcome. At WDW Marathon Weekend I knew I was going to run the 10k and half just fine, but treated the marathon as a "game-time decision" due to a combination of injury preventing me from training and my not ever having done a marathon before. I was telling myself I was crazy all the way through the starting corral and after hitting the MK, I was ready to step off the course. Fortunately, my stubbornness trumped my self-doubt and I stayed on. Shortly thereafter I hit a groove and had one of the defining moments of my life.

Self-doubt and the fear of hills almost kept me from registering and running this weekend's half marathon. It's currently nagging at the back of my mind as I look to transition back to full running from intervals for a marathon training cycle. Will my hamstring hold up to the strain?

I guess the take home is that it's a constant part of my running. However, when I am able to buckle down and break through it, special things tend to happen. Completing that marathon has done worlds of good for my confidence off the race course and I hope it leads to better things from here.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

ATTQOTD - I would say that self-doubt pushes me rather than limiting me. A need to continually prove myself to myself has really helped me in every aspect of my life.

 

[ZellyB]

ATTQOTD: I don't tend to have a lot of self-doubt about tackling some new goal. For the most part with running, as long as you are willing to put in the time and effort (and have reasonable expectations), most goals can be achieved. My issue tends to be self-doubt while in the midst of a bad run. If I'm struggling I tend to beat myself up that maybe I'm just not cut out to be a runner, or that I'm weak and slow, or any number of other negatives. Once I'm done, most of that fades, but it's a bad habit of mine during a bad run.

 

[DVCFan1994]

QOTD: What role does self-doubt play in your running, if any? Does it keep you from trying a new distance or going for a certain time goal, for example?

Actually, I think running is the one segment of my life where self doubt does not play a role. I doubt myself in a myriad of other ways, but for some reason since I began training for my first half in 2014, I have continued to believe anything is possible running wise. If anything, I probably could have used a little more self doubt here and there, it might have helped prevent injury. Time goals have gone out the window for me, because I am focused on slow running to stay healthy. I am hoping to get though Marine Corp in October and then start to work on speed hopefully to do a half or full the following spring that will have a time goal. Distance wise, I am not afraid of new distances.

Question for all of you with more expertise. Today was my first run with my new FR 235. It gives me a VO2max, as well as a training effect. Anyone know how accurate these measures are? I sort of doubt my first reading, but maybe it takes a few runs to establish an accurate depiction?

 

[RunDisneyDad]

ATTQOTD: Self doubt doesn't play a huge role for me as for the most part I don't feel like I can ever truly fail when it comes to running. But, I definitely question my bigger goals and whether or not I have what it takes to accomplish them. Either way, I'm going to have fun finding out.

Maybe when we are done having babys and they are grown up some.

This played a huge role in me getting back into marathoning. There was a 10 year gap between my last Half Marathon and the 2014 DW Marathon. When I looked back on it and asked why I was finally able to see a training program all the way through the thing I came up with was my kids were finally at an age where their independence allowed my wife and I to have more time for our hobbies.

 

[Barca33Runner]

QOTD: What role does self-doubt play in your running, if any? Does it keep you from trying a new distance or going for a certain time goal, for example?

Self-doubt has never really played a role in my running. I think the exact opposite, unearned overconfidence, negatively influenced me for a long time. As in, "I could get in shape...if I wanted to", "I could run a marathon...if I wanted to", etc.

I wasn't making a conscious decision not to do those things; I was merely making a weak justification for my laziness. Running has been a huge part of trying to stop making those justifications.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

Question for all of you with more expertise. Today was my first run with my new FR 235. It gives me a VO2max, as well as a training effect. Anyone know how accurate these measures are? I sort of doubt my first reading, but maybe it takes a few runs to establish an accurate depiction?

I definitely takes a few weeks to really zero in, and it isn't as precise as a manual calculation, but it is very helpful for establishing a baseline and tracking improvement. I certainly don't swear by the actual VO2 calculation, but I still use it.

As for the training effect - after a few weeks this is very helpful. Most runs should be right at 3. If you are consistently at or near 4 in training effect, you are running too hard and not getting maximum benefit from your running.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Question for all of you with more expertise. Today was my first run with my new FR 235. It gives me a VO2max, as well as a training effect. Anyone know how accurate these measures are? I sort of doubt my first reading, but maybe it takes a few runs to establish an accurate depiction?

I've never done a lab based VO2max but from what I've read the value the Garmin outputs and the lab based test are close (within a few points) when using the HR strap (so a good estimate but not a replacement). The Garmin calculates the VO2max based on HRV (heart rate variability) when you use a heart rate strap. But the Garmin 235 can generate a VO2max with only the optical HR monitor through a few data manipulations in their formula. You'll need to run with it a few times before the data becomes more accurate because it needs more HR vs pace data points to figure out a curve for you. Entering an accurate max HR and resting HR does play a role in the VO2max and training effect output so make sure those are accurate as well.

Lastly, the estimated race pace that it spits out is a best case scenario. It assumes you have maximized all of your abilities to hit that number. So when your PRs are minutes or hours away from those times, don't worry it is for almost all of us. What the race predictor does say is if your heart rate was the only variable in running then you would be capable of that predicted race time. As an example, most people finish a marathon at between 60-70% VO2max. The Garmin's marathon estimated finish time is based on a 77-85% VO2max finish (the higher the VO2max the higher on the % curve it puts you and the more unreasonable it gets, though there is probably a connection between someone with a higher VO2max being able to run at a higher % as well). Physically it's possible, but almost none of us will be able to reach that predicted race time.

 

[Anisum]

QOTD: What role does self-doubt play in your running, if any? Does it keep you from trying a new distance or going for a certain time goal, for example?

In the past it hasn't but now I am worried I might not be able to make the time commitment to do a full. I'm fairly slow. My PR is 2:05 for 10 miles at race pace so while I am definitely within the pace/time limit for marathons training to go further than 13.1 seems daunting because long runs would be committing to a day (or at least a half way though I don't know how I'd feel after) of running. I would like an intermediate length between 13.1 and 26.2 so I don't feel like it's such a jump.

I also want to do a Sprint Tri but I am not sure how overcoming my fear of properly fitted bikes will go. I'm going to try and find a place to rent a bike this summer or perhaps find a beginners tri group or something.

 

[croach]

QOTD: What role does self-doubt play in your running, if any? Does it keep you from trying a new distance or going for a certain time goal, for example?

Self doubt doesn't keep me from trying new distances or going for a certain goal. It does however creep in on race day as I stress whether I can finish the race in the way I hoped to. I'm hoping using a coach will help with that and I will feel I am properly prepared. Mind games can sometimes be worse then the physical game.

 

[DopeyBadger]

QOTD: What role does self-doubt play in your running, if any? Does it keep you from trying a new distance or going for a certain time goal, for example?

I would say my "self-doubt" occurred during the race, not so much before it. I use to be overly negative during a race when I wasn't hitting my goals. During my research binge on running last year in an attempt to get better, I came upon quite a few scientific articles about the Psychobiological model by Samuel Marcora from 2007-2012. It was an interesting concept to me that your mindset during the race can play a huge role in your perception of effort (and thus how easy it feels to run). Matt Fitzgerald recently wrote a book, "How bad do you want it?" based on some of Marcora's principles. However I haven't read Fitzgerald's book just the original scientific articles. I tried to boil it down on my training journal some time ago if anyone's looking for a brief read.

Since reading those articles I've done my best to use amplifiers (make it easier) of perception of effort during runs and learn to let go during race day. Since then I've never had a bad race, how can I though when I'm always doing the best I can?

 

[disneydaydreamer33]

ATTQOTD: Great question! It's hard to know when what is stopping me is self doubt or other things in my life. I think having three kids to take care of limits me quite a bit, and I too share a fear of getting injured that has stopped me from tackling a marathon or from getting serious about improving my speed. I'm sure there is self doubt mixed in there too though!

 

[Dis5150]

ATTQOTD: When I first started running last year I was full of self-doubt. I didn't think I would be able to get thru my first 10k, let alone a half! After all, I couldn't even finish my C25K! But as I have kept at it, finishing more races, my doubts have gone away and running races has greatly improved my self confidence! I've been lucky so far in that I have gotten faster in each race I have run. I don't know if my feelings will change when I finally have a "bad" race. I have had low self esteem for years, stemming back to an abusive first marriage.

Running and running races has been a life changer for me! Thank you @LSUlakes for this question that has made me consciously aware of this!

 

[PrincessV]

QOTD: What role does self-doubt play in your running, if any? Does it keep you from trying a new distance or going for a certain time goal, for example?

ATTQOTD: I could maybe use a little more self-doubt: I tend to have unrealistic expectations of my abilities, lol! At 45, I still expect my body to perform like it did at 18... and it simply doesn't. Which can lead to disappointment. Which makes me want to push harder. Which leads to exhaustion and injury. I've had to work toward a more realistic view of what I can and can't do, and what I should and should not do.

 

[Slogger]

My 5k went much better than expected. It rained the whole time, pretty hard at some points, but the wind was minimal. And I did make my goal of sub-35. My official time was 34:39. If anyone is looking for a flat and fast 5k in DC in May, I would highly recommend the Semper Fi 5k. And the logistics are always well organized. It's obviously more fun when it's not raining but they still did a good job in the rain. The only downside tends to be that it's not really that close to either parking or the metro so getting there can be a bit of a chore. We always just go really early so that we can find a good parking spot and walk. We ended up being about a 15-20 minute walk away from the start line.

Congrats on making your goal. 15 or 20 minute walk can be a pain but also makes for a good warm up.
Do the Marines run that race and where in DC do they do it?

 

[Slogger]

@LSUlakes

I've got some races to add to the list:

June
18 - DopeyBadger - Hot2Trot 10K (Top 5 / N/A)

October
02 - DopeyBadger - Milwaukee Lakefront Marathon (3:17:49 / N/A)

January
05 - DopeyBadger - WDW 5k (0:21:00 / N/A) Dopey
06 - DopeyBadger - WDW 10k (0:43:00 / N/A) Dopey
07 - DopeyBadger - WDW Half Marathon (1:40:00 / N/A) Dopey
08 - DopeyBadger - WDW Marathon (3:46:00 / N/A) Dopey
08 - DopeyBadger - Goofy Challenge (5:26:00 / N/A) Dopey
08 - DopeyBadger - Dopey Challenge (6:30:00 / N/A) Dopey

Hot2Trot's a small local race just outside my front door. Figured I have to defend my home turf (LOL!). Only top 3 in each age division (by 10 year increments) get a trophy in the Hot2Trot 10K. In my division (M 30-39) they overall placed 1st, 4th, and 5th. So if I want a trophy I need to go top 5. Guess we'll see.

Milwaukee Lakefront is the 1st marathon I broke 4 hours at (last year) so I'm hoping to recapture the magic.

Thanks!

Good luck with the races and your goals. Go get that trophy!
Dopey in 6:30 sounds amazing.
I know you are a stat guy, have you researched what the winning Dopey times have been over the past few years and how close your goal would be to the top?

 

[opusone]

I know you are a stat guy, have you researched what the winning Dopey times have been over the past few years and how close your goal would be to the top?

Dopey Winning Times (Open Division)
4:38:45 in 2014
4:53:29 in 2015
4:44:07 in 2016

 

[michigandergirl]

ATTQOTD: I had lots of self doubt before I started running longer distances. I think it stemmed from when my kids were little and required so much time and energy that it was an epic struggle to accomplish ANYTHING. Now that they are a little older (12, 10, &9) and more self-sufficient, I am able to get more accomplished and have a little more time for me. Training for the marathon last year was a huge confidence booster for me and self doubt doesn't creep in much anymore. I now know as long as I put in the training and as long as the body holds up, I can get it done.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Good luck with the races and your goals. Go get that trophy!
Dopey in 6:30 sounds amazing.
I know you are a stat guy, have you researched what the winning Dopey times have been over the past few years and how close your goal would be to the top?

A 6:30:00 would be:

2014 - Roughly top 125 (don't have the exact because the sheet I have doesn't incorporate 5K times) out of 6,139 finishers (That year, I finished around top 900-950 by my guess)
2015 - 136th place out of 6,488 finishers (That year, I finished 672nd)
2016 - 101st place out of 6,323 finishers (That year, I finished 160th)

*credit goes to @opusone for making the excel sheets for me for 2015 and 2016.