The Running Thread - 2016

[LSUlakes]

Why is this? My coach has me doing almost everything in zone 2 right now, and it is making me a little crazy. He says just trust him, and with the number of injuries he's gotten me past I do. He says all this time in zone 2 will prevent those injuries from recurring, and I'll be able to get back to my old paces. But I feel so slow, and my runs are taking forever. So why is so much time in zone 2 a good thing? And I have a new day of running Friday which is my first labeled as a recovery run and I am supposed to try to stay in zone 1. Not going to happen unless I walk a lot. But I promised I'd try.

I think it has to do with recovery and not tearing yourself down on every run. I am not very familiar with that training concept so I may not be anywhere close to the correct answer.

 

[Keels]

Made a reservation for Cinderella's Royal Table. Checked out CC and it has been charged so I guess we are good to go. I'll call later to confirm. Thanks for the info! Nice to see you active on this thread again as well!

Yup - you should definitely be good to go! I've always had great luck with CRT when I call and speak to a person on the phone to get a reservation even when it shows unavailable, it just never shows up in my MDE.

And you can thank @FFigawi for getting me back on here ...

 

[camaker]

If you run "Easy" you will find that your recovery is 12 hours or less. By "Easy" I mean heart rate zone 2 or maybe the edge of zone 3. And believe it or not, running in HR Zone 2 really helps runners - I mean, it helps runners a whole lot.

I have seen the advice to run easy and keep your HR in Zone 2 to maximize training benefits. This is going to sound like a stupid question but how do you do that? I track my HR and zones with a FR 235 and even on my "easy" runs I end up spending 70+% of my time in Zone 4. The majority of the remainder is spent in Zone 3.

As background, my half and 10k PRs were both run at 8:52/mile. My "easy" training runs are currently 4:00/0:45 run/walk intervals and usually end up in the 10:05-10:20/mile range. I run at a comfortable pace and even seem to end up there when I TRY to slow down. Anything significantly less than 10:30/mile feels like a slow, uncomfortable crawl.

Any suggestions or feedback on what I can do to get more out of my training is welcome.

 

[Princess_Nikki]

Please don't kick me off the board, but I have to confess that I neither like nor drink beer.

Sweet Mother of Abraham Lincoln...Wha?!!! Lol.

That's ok. I think we can manage to keep you around.

Speaking of how you track your runs... I've read a lot about a lot of you using that Strava...if you haven't paid for a subscription yet and you are a New Balance fan, I just got my NB points email today. This is what it said:

Join Strava:
1 month / 500 NB points
3 months / 1,200 NB points
1 year / 3,500 NB points

I must confess I might be overly interested in joining now!

 

[Krynn]

I'm in for a Ragnar road or trail. Ohio has a new Ragnar trail race this fall for all of us Ohioans on here.

 

[opusone]

Why is this? My coach has me doing almost everything in zone 2 right now, and it is making me a little crazy. He says just trust him, and with the number of injuries he's gotten me past I do. He says all this time in zone 2 will prevent those injuries from recurring, and I'll be able to get back to my old paces. But I feel so slow, and my runs are taking forever. So why is so much time in zone 2 a good thing? And I have a new day of running Friday which is my first labeled as a recovery run and I am supposed to try to stay in zone 1. Not going to happen unless I walk a lot. But I promised I'd try.

Besides injury prevention…

I have seen the advice to run easy and keep your HR in Zone 2 to maximize training benefits. This is going to sound like a stupid question but how do you do that? I track my HR and zones with a FR 235 and even on my "easy" runs I end up spending 70+% of my time in Zone 4. The majority of the remainder is spent in Zone 3.

As background, my half and 10k PRs were both run at 8:52/mile. My "easy" training runs are currently 4:00/0:45 run/walk intervals and usually end up in the 10:05-10:20/mile range. I run at a comfortable pace and even seem to end up there when I TRY to slow down. Anything significantly less than 10:30/mile feels like a slow, uncomfortable crawl.

Any suggestions or feedback on what I can do to get more out of my training is welcome.

Were your 10k and half PRs recent, and were they using similar 4:00/0:45 intervals? Also, have you manually input your resting and max HR into your FR 235 for your HR zones, or are you just using the Garmin default values?

 

[croach]

New race to add for September

25 - croach - RNR Montreal half marathon (1:30)

Thanks!

 

[BuckeyeBama]

Here is a great article on Zone 2 training: http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/article/zone-2-training-for-endurance-athletes

 

[DopeyBadger]

Here is a great article on Zone 2 training: http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/article/zone-2-training-for-endurance-athletes

That was an incredibly good article. Thanks for sharing. It summarizes most everything I've researched about training in a concise and easy to understand summary.

 

[Waiting2goback]

Please don't kick me off the board, but I have to confess that I neither like nor drink beer.

I don't drink anything so if they kick you off I'll be right behind you.

No doubles for me. I'm the type who HAS to shower after a run bc I feel all gross if I don't. So limiting the amount of time have to do that per day is a plus. Also hard to find time for two runs.
Also I recommend the Amika hair mask for anyone who gets really dry hair from too much washing or drying .

You say that you HAVE to shower as if it's odd. I can't imagine running for an hour or more and not showering after, unless it's during the summer and I am going to be hanging by the pool with the kids or something.

I think it has to do with recovery and not tearing yourself down on every run. I am not very familiar with that training concept so I may not be anywhere close to the correct answer.

This is part of it. Less wear and tear on the body if you aren't running all out all the time.

I have seen the advice to run easy and keep your HR in Zone 2 to maximize training benefits. This is going to sound like a stupid question but how do you do that? I track my HR and zones with a FR 235 and even on my "easy" runs I end up spending 70+% of my time in Zone 4. The majority of the remainder is spent in Zone 3.

As background, my half and 10k PRs were both run at 8:52/mile. My "easy" training runs are currently 4:00/0:45 run/walk intervals and usually end up in the 10:05-10:20/mile range. I run at a comfortable pace and even seem to end up there when I TRY to slow down. Anything significantly less than 10:30/mile feels like a slow, uncomfortable crawl.

Any suggestions or feedback on what I can do to get more out of my training is welcome.

That article buckeyebama posted was helpful but basically you can build up your aerobic endurance more by being in Zone 2 for the majority of your runs and then add in a speed workout once a week. It's sounds backwards but it's true. camaker, are you sure you're spending that much time in Zone 4? Zone 4 would be the equivalent to race pace usually?

We run similar pace, and I am with you that anything slower than 10:30 is frustrating to me but that is where I need to be to be in Zone 2. I was actually paying closer attention to this on my run today because this exact topic was just discussed in the most recent Marathon Training Academy podcast so I was focused on my HR more. I had such an awful run and I was frustrated. I am not improving my times like I hoped this year and I was trying to figure out why and it occurred to me that I have not ridden my bike at all this year whereas I worked it in consistently the previous two years. This is important because when riding my bike I was CONSTANTLY in zone 2, unless I was climbing a huge hill or something.

I wasn't going to ride this year. I was going to use all that time and do more mileage running. But, I think I need to change that. Not only was I getting better results but it was less impact on my body. I need a new wheel because I bent it last year in a fall. I am going to try and find one tomorrow and then get back at it.


QOTD: I have never run doubles. I am usually in pain if I run back to back days, I can't imagine doing twice a day.

 

[camaker]

Were your 10k and half PRs recent, and were they using similar 4:00/0:45 intervals? Also, have you manually input your resting and max HR into your FR 235 for your HR zones, or are you just using the Garmin default values?

The PRs were last April (10k, 1st timed race I ran) and September (1/2). They were both done fully running, with no intervals. It was shortly after that 1/2 that I tore my hamstring and I still don't fully trust it, so I've stuck with the intervals. I would've thought that the intervals would reduce my time in the upper zones, not increase it, though.

I am also just using the default heart rate zones on the FR 235, too, so I'm relying on its accuracy when gauging my time in zone. I have a hard time believing it's off by two full zones, though.

Could my athletic history play any role? For the majority of my life I've played team sports that relied more on sprinting and burst speed than endurance (primarily Ultimate Frisbee). This foray into running the past couple of years has been my first real exposure to a true endurance sport.

 

[preciouspups]

So, does anyone experience panic attacks or little bouts of paranoia when they run?

I used to have BAD bouts of paranoia late last year when I was training for Dopey (mostly triggered by this story - not for the faint of heart - and the constant coverage of it: http://www.dallasnews.com/news/crim...ndom-on-white-rock-creek-trail-police-say.ece), and then I had a subtle panic attack in the corral the morning of the half marathon during Dopey ... but that was largely because I'd never done a large race at WDW before (both DLH and W&D pale in comparison to the Half), but I know that was largely due to just the sheer number of people and overall massiveness of everything.

Lately, I've been noticing I'm becoming a little more paranoid on my solo runs - especially when I don't take a dog with me. Like, I tend to notice cars I see more than once pass me during the two-mile loop I do in my neighborhood. Things like that.

Surely, I can't be the only one that feels this way from time-to-time, right?

Sometimes, but mostly when I'm in an area that is sketchy or is too quiet. I start worrying that someone could be hiding behind a tree and no one would know. The track I run is quite busy on one end but the other is a little isolated and i get nervous.

 

[Chasing Dopey]

It's true, running in zone 2 is boring as all get out. And it makes long runs completely ridiculous. (Am I still out here? What day is it?) But... very necessary. Like all forms of training, you want to change things up and make your body adapt, but there is always a foundation. In our case, endurance. Strength and speed are still great, and we benefit from working on those things, but that's not the central purpose.

 

[preciouspups]

Please don't kick me off the board, but I have to confess that I neither like nor drink beer.

I don't drink beer either. Give me a nice glass of wine or a cocktail.

 

[opusone]

The PRs were last April (10k, 1st timed race I ran) and September (1/2). They were both done fully running, with no intervals. It was shortly after that 1/2 that I tore my hamstring and I still don't fully trust it, so I've stuck with the intervals. I would've thought that the intervals would reduce my time in the upper zones, not increase it, though.

I am also just using the default heart rate zones on the FR 235, too, so I'm relying on its accuracy when gauging my time in zone. I have a hard time believing it's off by two full zones, though.

Could my athletic history play any role? For the majority of my life I've played team sports that relied more on sprinting and burst speed than endurance (primarily Ultimate Frisbee). This foray into running the past couple of years has been my first real exposure to a true endurance sport.

For one, I would put custom HR zones into your Garmin. Your resting HR is easy enough to calculate by getting your pulse in the morning a few minutes after you wake up but while you're still in bed. The max heart rate is a little tougher. General rule is 220 - age, but that formula doesn't work for everyone (including me). If you had a really hard workout (like an all-out 5k where you sprinted at the finish line), that might get you close to your max HR. Based on your hamstring injury, I wouldn't really suggest you go try to reach your max HR on a run until you're sure your hamstring will be okay. Maybe just use "220 - age" for now.

As far as pacing, I do think you are going too fast on your easy runs. If you have an 8:52 half marathon pace, your easy runs should be in the 10:25 to 11:10 pace range. You are currently running at about a 9:30 pace during your 4 minute run intervals such that when combined with your 45 second walk intervals you get to an 10:05-10:15 overall pace. So, it might be worth trying to slow it down to an overall 10:30+ pace and see what HR zones you're in then (with your new custom zones).

 

[dis_or_dat]

ATTQOTD: I rarely do doubles. Initially it used to be if I quit a run super early because of side stitches and still had time later in the day. But now I realize I do them if I have a long run in the morning and if my husband wants to do a run in the afternoon, I like to accompany him. It's a 2 shower day for me!

 

[Keels]

I don't drink beer either. Give me a nice glass of wine or a cocktail.

I'll allow it.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

That was an incredibly good article. Thanks for sharing. It summarizes most everything I've researched about training in a concise and easy to understand summary.

Thanks - most people fail to reach their potential because they simply run too hard every time out. They think that running is too hard, but it is really that they are running too hard for their bodies to develop properly. Sure, you need to run hard sometimes. But for real development and improvement, you need to run slow. This is important for all runners, including world class athletes. At some point a Zone 2 run might mean 7 min/miles - but only if you allow your body to develop properly. It was for me when I was in the Army (though we just called them easy runs). Right now it is about a 10 min/mile effort, but that is improving, and it is improving with me only running "hard" once/week.

 

[Anisum]

I don't drink beer either. Give me a nice glass of wine or a cocktail.

I second that motion! Wine and cocktails for all.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Thanks - most people fail to reach their potential because they simply run too hard every time out. They think that running is too hard, but it is really that they are running too hard for their bodies to develop properly. Sure, you need to run hard sometimes. But for real development and improvement, you need to run slow. This is important for all runners, including world class athletes. At some point a Zone 2 run might mean 7 min/miles - but only if you allow your body to develop properly. It was for me when I was in the Army (though we just called them easy runs). Right now it is about a 10 min/mile effort, but that is improving, and it is improving with me only running "hard" once/week.

In complete agreement. I can attest to the differences between the two different styles from personal experience. I spent the first 3 years of my running trying to PR every workout. I had a spreadsheet where I tracked every distance of every workout and the goal was always to finish just a little bit faster. However, my race times never seemed to reflect my training. In 3 years (or roughly 156 weeks), my PRs went from 4:50 down to 4:20 in the marathon and 2:11 down to 1:49 in the half. Great improvements, but not where I wanted to be.

Then I started training slower. At first it felt SO SLOW for me personally. I felt like I was walking. But I bought into the program. After 17 weeks my PRs dropped to 3:38 and 1:38 in the full and half. From that point forward I was a believer. Yes, I also went from 3x/week to 6x/week running during that transition, but I also wouldn't have been able to do more running using the style I used to (hard all the time). I was literally giving everything I had in each workout and it was always a rough start to the next workout. Now I barely ever push myself in training, and leave the real tough stuff for race day.

This is one of my favorite articles to reference when discussing training slower: http://www.sportsci.org/2009/ss.htm. It's long and dense, but covers the subject well. That's why I like your article because it really boils it down well.

@camaker I agree with everything @opusone has posted for you. The most important part is that the intervals actually force you to spend more time in higher zones to compensate for the walking. Thus, while your average ends up in the zone 2 you're actually spending more time in higher zones because of the estimated 9:30 pace during your running intervals.

Run/walk isn't always completely translatable, but I view the intervals like doing speed intervals. Even though I can have two workouts average 8:50 min/mile, how I got to that 8:50 min could be completely different and thus completely changes the physiological gains of the workout.