The Running Thread - 2016

[PrincessV]

QOTD: What is the best sign you've seen while running a race? Spectators create some amazing signs and some very humeours ones to what are the best ones seen during races you have done?

ATTQOTD: My favorite I've seen so far was at this year's WDW full marathon: "You run faster than WDW builds attractions - you've got this!" I pulled over for a pic with that person and her sign.

I'm still pretty entertained by a sign I made for the 2015 full: "Don't stop now - you're almost at the GIFT SHOP!" At about mile 25. That one seemed to get a lot of laughs and thumbs' ups, which pretty much made my day

 

[ebradley23]

The one that motivated me the most during a race was during a half marathon...It read "Make Mile 10 your *****!"...so I did




That's my motto during any run!

Only a runner knows how true this is. I tried telling my non-runner friends about the sign, and they thought I was crazy for thinking it was funny.

 

[Miranda]

I am a run/walker and I totally do this too!

I do this too for longer races so I know if I should scale my expectations to finish in the general back third to quarter of the pack or near DFL.

 

[Miranda]

I do this too for longer races so I know if I should scale my expectations to finish in the general back third to quarter of the pack or near DFL.

Eep, I hadn't checked results for my 10 miler this weekend... close to DFL it is then this week. Maybe since the weather is so gorgeous this year (unlike last year when we probably still had 2 feet of snow on the ground) more slowpokes will show up so I will have company back there. Sometimes it gets lonely.

 

[Dis5150]

Ugh... I'm going to have to take a race off the schedule...

June 4 Race 13.1 Raleigh - Spring

Registered for it before finding out my youngest daughter graduates from high school that day. Next we were told graduation was at 11:00, so I had my contingency plan to run the race at 7:15 and still make the ceremony. Today I get the official schedule that the ceremony is at 9:30! There's no way I could race and make that, even if I channeled my inner Meb!

Just to twist the knife a bit, too, this one was the final race of a local 3-race challenge series, of which I will have run the first two! Would she really miss me if I showed up at the end? I wonder.

The Race 13.1 series allow the virtual races to count as part of the 3-race challenge. There is a virtual one on May 1st (Knoxville). If you are interested in virtual races. It's in the list of upcoming races on the bottom of their webpage.

ETA: I should have said THEIR virtual races.

 

[camaker]

The Race 13.1 series allow the virtual races to count as part of the 3-race challenge. There is a virtual one on May 1st (Knoxville). If you are interested in virtual races. It's in the list of upcoming races on the bottom of their webpage.

Thanks, but unfortunately I'm not going for the generic "complete 3 Race 13.1 events" challenge. There is a specific "Raleigh Spring Triple Crown" challenge that is completed by finishing the Tobacco Road Half Marathon (March), NCRC Half Marathon (May) and Race 13.1 - Raleigh Spring Half Marathon (June). It's looking like a long dry spell between the NCRC on May 22nd and Disneyland Half Labor Day weekend!

 

[Dis5150]

Thanks, but unfortunately I'm not going for the generic "complete 3 Race 13.1 events" challenge. There is a specific "Raleigh Spring Triple Crown" challenge that is completed by finishing the Tobacco Road Half Marathon (March), NCRC Half Marathon (May) and Race 13.1 - Raleigh Spring Half Marathon (June). It's looking like a long dry spell between the NCRC on May 22nd and Disneyland Half Labor Day weekend!

Ah, okay. Sorry! :/

 

[roxymama]

Eep, I hadn't checked results for my 10 miler this weekend... close to DFL it is then this week. Maybe since the weather is so gorgeous this year (unlike last year when we probably still had 2 feet of snow on the ground) more slowpokes will show up so I will have company back there. Sometimes it gets lonely.

Well if the weather is nice & if you are at the back, you will have gotten the best value/money's worth. Just think of all those speedsters wasting their money finishing too soon. (I kid, I kid!)

 

[nickyfielding]

I have been running with my friend's Garmin for the past 4 weeks and managed to increase my average pace from 17:31 to 13:49 minutes per mile. That brings me at the moment for a 3hr half marathon. Just got to actually run that average pace for more than 2 and a half miles.

 

[opusone]

My view is that the pace at which you'd want to train during this next training cycle is always dictated by your current fitness level. Given your recent half at Dark Side, I believe your paces would be around these:

@DopeyBadger: while I am still pondering my future running goals and as I re-read your response, I was curious why you base the next training cycle on your current fitness level. I thought the training pace chart was based on your goal pace, not necessarily your existing pace. Now I realize, you have to be reasonable about goals, and it would be ridiculous to start training for a goal pace that is very likely unachievable during the next cycle, but wouldn't you want to slightly lower your goal pace from your existing pace (I'm just guessing, but maybe by 1 or 2%)? Thanks.

 

[Waiting2goback]

QOTD: I know I have seen some good signs in the marathons I have run but I can't remember them. I am usually not doing well in the race when I am able to notice them so it makes it harder to remember them.

 

[DopeyBadger]

@DopeyBadger: while I am still pondering my future running goals and as I re-read your response, I was curious why you base the next training cycle on your current fitness level. I thought the training pace chart was based on your goal pace, not necessarily your existing pace. Now I realize, you have to be reasonable about goals, and it would be ridiculous to start training for a goal pace that is very likely unachievable during the next cycle, but wouldn't you want to slightly lower your goal pace from your existing pace (I'm just guessing, but maybe by 1 or 2%)? Thanks.

Great question. My philosophy is based on maximizing benefits and minimizing risk when creating a training plan. The #1 goal in a training plan is to make it to race day healthy and uninjured. You achieve goal #1 and you have a chance to do your best. If you don't achieve goal #1, then it makes it very difficult to do your best.

The pace you choose to train at influences both the benefit and risk. I use my current recent PR as a reflection of my current fitness. If I choose to train at this pace for the next training cycle I am finding the sweet spot between maximizing benefits and minimizing risk. If I choose to train slower than my current fitness, then I'm minimizing the risk slightly more, but missing out on even greater possible benefits. If I train faster than my current fitness, then I'm achieving slightly more benefits but with it comes an even greater risk for injury.

I can use an example to illustrate my idea. Two runners achieve the same recent PR suggesting they have the same fitness level. Runner A chooses to train in the next cycle at their current fitness level. Runner B chooses to train at 3% faster than their current fitness level. After 6 weeks of training, these two runners meet for a training race. Runner B will likely beat Runner A. They continue their training for 2 more weeks. But then Runner B has a setback with a minor injury. Runner B is now forced to take one week off. Runner B then uses the two weeks after the injury to regain the fitness lost during the week off. Runner A and B meet again for a training race. Runner A and B are now very close in finishing times. They continue their training. After two weeks Runner B has another setback. This runner requires another one week off with two weeks to regain fitness. After the last 6 weeks both runners get to race day. Given the small incremental gains without injury Runner A is likely to beat Runner B. However, here's the catch: What if Runner B never has any setbacks? Then Runner B will likely crush Runner A. Runner B took more risk with the faster training plan, and it may or not may not pay off with the increased injury risk.

As a more personal example, your last training cycle was with the goal of completing a half marathon in 1:45. Yet, even with a 10K prior (which you admittedly took easy/moderate) you were able to run a half at 1:42. This is a difference in pace of approximately 14 seconds. Now let's rewind 18 weeks in history and instead of training at 1:45 for Dark Side let's say you trained at 1:42 (your future actual finishing time). Maybe or maybe not that little extra effort during training could have been the difference for you in staying injury free. In addition, it's possible that training for a 1:42 could have reaped a 1:40. It was just slightly more risky to train slightly faster.

So yes, it's possible for you to choose to train at a pace 1-2% below where you just finished but with it comes additional risk for injury. You have to decide whether that additional injury risk is worth it. For me, I choose the slightly more conservative option and it has reaped me personally good benefits. Dropped marathon PR by 42 minutes (16% improvement) in 18 week cycle and dropped half marathon PR by 8 minutes (7.5% improvement) in 7 week cycle. I'm currently training for a marathon and believe to be in line for a 18 minute PR (8.3% improvement) in 15 weeks (although who knows what actual race day will bring).

Now for the obligatory asterisk. There are other possible ways to judge your current fitness level that may not be best reflected in your last race. Something I like to do is a fitness test race (approximately 5-6 weeks prior to the "A" race and typically half the distance of the "A" race). This fitness race gives me two pieces of information: 1) whether I'm in line with my "A" goal pace coming up in 5-6 weeks and 2) a fall back future training pace for the next cycle if my "A" race doesn't go as planned unexpectedly. You can then use a race equivalency chart to come up with a new "A" race training pace for the next cycle. The other possible fitness judge is during training if you suddenly feel the same effort is yielding faster results (make note of these faster times, yet continue training at your preset paces). This matching effort pace may indicate that even if neither the fitness race or "A" race go well you may still be in line for changing your next cycle's pace based on this perceived effort. Lastly, everyone's response to training is different. If you find yourself over the history of your running career to be a relatively low injury rate person, then you may be able to take more risk in choosing your next training pace slightly faster than any pace that you've achieved or is a race equivalent to something you've achieved.

These two articles are similar in my explanation of my philosophy but explain it slightly different and may not completely agree with me:

http://runnersconnect.net/running-training-articles/how-to-run-faster/
http://runnersconnect.net/coach-corner/how-to-run-faster/

 

[opusone]

As a more personal example, your last training cycle was with the goal of completing a half marathon in 1:45. Yet, even with a 10K prior (which you admittedly took easy/moderate) you were able to run a half at 1:42. This is a difference in pace of approximately 14 seconds. Now let's rewind 18 weeks in history and instead of training at 1:45 for Dark Side let's say you trained at 1:42 (your future actual finishing time). Maybe or maybe not that little extra effort during training could have been the difference for you in staying injury free. In addition, it's possible that training for a 1:42 could have reaped a 1:40. It was just slightly more risky to train slightly faster.

Thank you once again for your very thorough response! I knew I could count on you. I completely understand the risk (possible injury) versus reward (possible better improvement) trade-off, and we are all trying to walk that fine line and dealing with numerous variables along the way: current fitness level being the starting point, but we then have to choose the number of training days per week, number of miles per week, proportion of speed and tempo miles, speed of all training paces, types of shoes to wear, stretching regimen, nutrition, etc, while taking into account our age, body style, injury history, and I'm sure many other things. All these decisions affect that delicate risk/reward balance.

Per the personal example you mentioned (quoted above), though, I guess if I am really honest when I look back 18 weeks to when I started the half marathon training plan with a 1:45 goal, I seriously doubt I was at a fitness level at that time to perform at a 1:45, so in effect, I was training at paces that were better than my then current fitness level. Does that make sense? So, that is one reason I was wondering where to set my next goal (and therefore training paces) now that I have performed at a 1:42 level. I think I am getting closer to developing my running plan and longer-term goals, so I do need to decide on this pacing stuff at some point, although probably not today.

I did find it humorous, though, that when I went out for a 5 mile easy run today, I was clueless about what pace I wanted to target. I know it really didn't matter since it was at an easy pace and there is currently no plan to follow, but I chuckled to myself that I was even wasting brain cells on this pace struggle for an easy recovery run. After my internal laugh, I just ran slow by feel without worrying about pace.

 

[keahgirl8]

I'm the opposite. I used to use Coppertone Sport but it got in my eyes when I sweat so I switched. I may try Neutrogena's sport though.

I guess everyone's skin is different! I've never had trouble with it. Another suggestion is to just use your regular moisturizer with sunscreen. Sometimes I just do that.

ATTQOTD: I've seen a lot of signs that make me laugh, smile, giggle, or just give me much-needed lift. One such sign was during my first half marathon, Wine & Dine 2013, there was a lady sitting in a motorized scooter outside Beach/Yacht Club at a god-awful time of night/morning handing out Starbursts with a sign saying, "Hello Complete Stranger I'm Proud of You Too." It wasn't until much later that I realized what a runDisney staple Peggy Sue was and now I look for her sign at Disney races because some people are carrying on her tradition - I saw it at last year's Princess Half and also during Marathon Weekend this year. It always warms my heart.

This one was mine. I loved all of the stories about Peggy and was so sad to hear she had passed away, even though I'd never met her. The first Princess Half after she passed was particularly difficult for me. I was in a lot of pain and really scared I wouldn't finish. I was so disappointed and scared I wouldn't finish. I saw that sign at just the right time. I immediately burst into tears. It was exactly what I needed to push me forward. I will never forget that.

 

[cavepig]

SIGNS - I love the 'hit for power signs", not like I ever hit them, because it doesn't dawn on me what it says till too late. at Disneyland there was something like hurry before the ticket prices increase or something or I like the 'worst parade ever'. Steve Harvey was funny at the marathon...so many that I enjoy but I just can't remember them.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

@opusone & @DopeyBadger - Age, weight and genetics also play a huge factor. When I was 25, I could train at high intensities every day and never get fatigued. I was always fully recovered the next morning (if I got 7 hours of sleep), and I never - NEVER - got injured. I could run so hard that I puked, then do it again and again and again - no setbacks. That is because I was small, but very fit and very young.

Today I am twice that age and I learned long ago that speed work is my enemy. I still love speed work, but I have to severely limit it or it will result in injury. Also, where I used to do speed work almost to the point of system failure, I now limit it to 90% effort. To stay on my feet, I only do speed work a few times/month, and I do it with much lower intensity - and I eliminate it altogether in my 16 week training cycle leading up to a marathon.

I didn't "learn" this so much as I was forced to make this change. 100% of my injuries over the last 5 years have come from speed sessions or stubbornness. When I train at moderate levels and listen to my body, I am able to run every day, 7 days/week, even at my age.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Thank you once again for your very thorough response! I knew I could count on you. I completely understand the risk (possible injury) versus reward (possible better improvement) trade-off, and we are all trying to walk that fine line and dealing with numerous variables along the way: current fitness level being the starting point, but we then have to choose the number of training days per week, number of miles per week, proportion of speed and tempo miles, speed of all training paces, types of shoes to wear, stretching regimen, nutrition, etc, while taking into account our age, body style, injury history, and I'm sure many other things. All these decisions affect that delicate risk/reward balance.

Completely agree.

Per the personal example you mentioned (quoted above), though, I guess if I am really honest when I look back 18 weeks to when I started the half marathon training plan with a 1:45 goal, I seriously doubt I was at a fitness level at that time to perform at a 1:45, so in effect, I was training at paces that were better than my then current fitness level. Does that make sense? So, that is one reason I was wondering where to set my next goal (and therefore training paces) now that I have performed at a 1:42 level. I think I am getting closer to developing my running plan and longer-term goals, so I do need to decide on this pacing stuff at some point, although probably not today.

I guess thinking back to then, why did you choose a 1:45 as a goal pace? Was your 5K near 22:00 or your 10K near 46:00? I think I remember seeing your POT was something around 2:04 (interestingly enough that's provided on Disney's runner tracking). Assuming this was your first high mileage 6-day a week plan for training, then you were very likely to make huge gains during this first cycle as your body became accustomed to it. As you potentially continue with this type of plan the gains will be diminished and you will slowly move closer to the higher injury risk line the further you extend your training paces out. Said another way, you could always choose to increase your paces by 3% for the next cycles, and for the next few cycles that will be far enough away from the increased injury line. But eventually, that 3% increase will move into the grey area.

I did find it humorous, though, that when I went out for a 5 mile easy run today, I was clueless about what pace I wanted to target. I know it really didn't matter since it was at an easy pace and there is currently no plan to follow, but I chuckled to myself that I was even wasting brain cells on this pace struggle for an easy recovery run. After my internal laugh, I just ran slow by feel without worrying about pace.

Another idea for pacing strategy is to use that easy run and the next few to set your next pacing cycle. You know what "easy" feels like so let your body settle into an "easy" pace. Then back-calculate the rest of your pacing strategy from those easy runs. Although, you might have to wait a few weeks to allow this strategy to work because of the necessary recovery weeks you're in from the Dark Side.

@opusone & @DopeyBadger - Age, weight and genetics also play a huge factor. When I was 25, I could train at high intensities every day and never get fatigued. I was always fully recovered the next morning (if I got 7 hours of sleep), and I never - NEVER - got injured. I could run so hard that I puked, then do it again and again and again - no setbacks. That is because I was small, but very fit and very young.

Today I am twice that age and I learned long ago that speed work is my enemy. I still love speed work, but I have to severely limit it or it will result in injury. Also, where I used to do speed work almost to the point of system failure, I now limit it to 90% effort. To stay on my feet, I only do speed work a few times/month, and I do it with much lower intensity - and I eliminate it altogether in my 16 week training cycle leading up to a marathon.

I didn't "learn" this so much as I was forced to make this change. 100% of my injuries over the last 5 years have come from speed sessions or stubbornness. When I train at moderate levels and listen to my body, I am able to run every day, 7 days/week, even at my age.

Completely agree. It's the paces that extend ourselves that put us at the most risk. In your younger years your injury line was very far away, but now that injury line has moved much closer to those same relative fitness level paces.

 

[ebradley23]

Just saw a cool segment on the Today Show. A guy crested an app that allows you to virtually race people. It's called Heat Running. I don't know about you, but I struggle in my training plans to always run at race pace for training runs that call for it. I think the app along with my competitive nature would help me get it done. It gives you the option to have updates of your progress while your running. Just thought I would pass the info on to you guys.

 

[FFigawi]

Just saw a cool segment on the Today Show. A guy crested an app that allows you to virtually race people. It's called Heat Running. I don't know about you, but I struggle in my training plans to always run at race pace for training runs that call for it. I think the app along with my competitive nature would help me get it done. It gives you the option to have updates of your progress while your running. Just thought I would pass the info on to you guys.

Newer Garmin watches have that feature too. You can set up a virtual training partner, and the display will show your progress against him in both time and distance ahead or behind.

 

[CheapRunnerMike]

QOTD: What is the best sign you've seen while running a race? Spectators create some amazing signs and some very humeours ones to what are the best ones seen during races you have done?

Oh I just remembered an amazing sign from Boston! I had to share it with my wife because she is a massive 'Murder, She Wrote' fan and it was perfect. As soon as we crested Heartbreak Hill there was a sign that said;

"Somebody better call Angela Lansbury because you just murdered that hill"

Amazing.