The Running Thread - 2016

[DVCFan1994]

How long have you been training by this method? I ask because it did take me several months to be able to change my cadence. It might be something that you'll just need to continue to work at like you said yourself. It does appear that I have a similar matching zone 2 HR to cadence to what your coach is looking for (HR = 131 and Cadence = 176). My cadence varies some as I increase pace, but I've found for me that it's the force behind the steps that causes my heart rate to increase. So try having super light feet with little force behind them, yet try and move them quickly.

You could also monitor your breathing rhythm. You might be able to lower your HR with a breathing rhythm of a 2 + 3 (breath in for 2 steps + breath out for 3 steps) or a 2 + 4. I've been playing around with a 2 + 3 in some of my workouts and it seems to slow down my HR a touch depending on my pace.

A whole two runs. I'm impatient, I know. It just seems so impossible. When my heart rate is low 130s my cadence is only in the mid 160s.

I will keep working on my cadence as well as the breathing. I'd worked on that before but kind of forgot about it. Thanks for the help!

 

[Waiting2goback]

I'll add one other thing about foot strike and training strategy. I strongly believe that cadence (number of steps per minute) is one of the most important aspects of running efficiently, and more important than whether you are a heel/mid/fore striker. The higher the cadence the more likely you are to have an efficient running style. While everyone is different, ideally your cadence should be above 180 steps per minute when you are running at race pace. When I first got my Garmin 620 one of the first things I noticed was that my cadence was in the high 160s and my stride length around 1 meter. I made a concerted effort to try and move my feet quicker (it took months for it to become natural, so make the progression slowly). Upon research, I found that the less your foot moves forward and kicks backwards the less energy is spent bringing it back into position for the next strike. This means when I run it looks more like a quick shuffle then an actual run with legs kicking way back (its why I don't do well on non-road surfaces because I barely pick my feet off the ground). I believe the reason you see elite runners kicking their feet way back is because they're running a 4:00-5:00 min/mile so unless you're going that fast a quick shuffle might be better. I now consistently see my cadence in the high 180s to 200 steps per minute and yet my stride length has naturally elongated to 1.2-1.3 meters. Keeping my feet to close to underneath my body has also reduced my injury rate.

One thing I always like to tell myself when I'm running is to "Run Like a Ninja". When you see ninjas run, they move their feet quickly and quietly. If you emulate that, you will reduce your chance of injury and it will likely enable you to run further faster because you will use less energy per step.

This is interesting because I do shuffle and I always felt like I looked ridiculous. I have no idea what my actual step count is because I don't have a Garmin but I do know I take a lot of small steps.

My coach has me focusing right now on cadence and HR training for my base building phase. He wants my cadence 172-176, when my heart rate is in zone 2 (125-137 for me) on easy runs. Problem is, I can't do both. I can keep my cadence in the mid 170s, but only at speeds that have my heart rate about 8-10 bpm higher than top of zone 2. To get my heart rate to stay down in zone 2, I have to go really slow, and my cadence falls, even with more of a shuffle.

Anyone have suggestions or tips? Is it just time and practice that get will get me to high cadence regardless of speed/heart rate?

I train based on HR. I think if you continue to work on this eventually your HR will become more efficient and you will be able to do more steps and keep your HR down. That's the whole idea of HR training. When you think about it, when we started exercising for the first time our HR's would skyrocket just from climbing the stairs. The more you workout, the more efficient your heart becomes so you can do more work without your heart rate going through the roof.

I would talk to your coach and just confirm what he/she wants for clarification. But I would think that you should work more on the cadence, if that's what your coach wants, and the HR will eventually get where they want it to be.

QOTD: I have always run off my toes so I can just tell. I occasionally try to land on the mid foot to put less stress on the calves but I only land on my heel when I am going down a hill.

 

[Waiting2goback]

[QUOTE="keahgirl8, post: 55512239, member: 97526"I have all the respect in the world for you! P90X looks SO hard!

I LOVE yoga! Love...even though I'm not flexible at all. For anyone who wants something beyond just stretching and bending into a pretzel, I would suggest either of Jillian Michaels' yoga DVDs. They are really challenging and incorporate interval training.[/QUOTE]

Thank you. The workouts aren't easy, that's for sure. But the hardest part of the program is getting in the habit of working out 6 days a week. Having said that, I feel like a fraud. I took today off. My body hurts today so I am moving my rest day to today.

I did buy a Jillian Michaels Yoga DVD. I couldn't get into that one either. I may have to try it again.

 

[keahgirl8]

I'm so excited for the Olympics. I'm a total junkie. My wife will be on maternity leave during them and I am so jealous.

I'm kind of jealous too! I can never keep up with everything I want to watch!

Thank you. The workouts aren't easy, that's for sure. But the hardest part of the program is getting in the habit of working out 6 days a week. Having said that, I feel like a fraud. I took today off. My body hurts today so I am moving my rest day to today.

I did buy a Jillian Michaels Yoga DVD. I couldn't get into that one either. I may have to try it again.

Rest days are important, and so is listening to your body. Otherwise, you could get hurt or just burned out and then you won't be able to keep it up.

Which one did you buy?

 

[Waiting2goback]

I'm kind of jealous too! I can never keep up with everything I want to watch!



Rest days are important, and so is listening to your body. Otherwise, you could get hurt or just burned out and then you won't be able to keep it up.

Which one did you buy?

I can't think of the name of it but I think it took place in Hawaii and they were on some lava rock or something like that. There were 2 other people with her if I remember correctly. It's downstairs and I am to lazy to go look right now. The next time I am down there I will try to remember to look.

 

[keahgirl8]

I can't think of the name of it but I think it took place in Hawaii and they were on some lava rock or something like that. There were 2 other people with her if I remember correctly. It's downstairs and I am to lazy to go look right now. The next time I am down there I will try to remember to look.

That's Yoga Inferno. That's the one I was going to suggest, because it has cardio and weight training intervals. If it was the difficulty level that you didn't like, Yoga Meltdown is a little easier. Not easy, by any means, but not as challenging as Yoga Inferno.

 

[Dis5150]

Yay for being old! DH placed 1st in his age division and I placed 3rd in mine at our 5k today! Also it was DH's first ever race!

 

[roxymama]

double post, sorry

 

[roxymama]

Congrats @Dis5150 ! So is he hooked now?

 

[keahgirl8]

Yay for being old! DH placed 1st in his age division and I placed 3rd in mine at our 5k today! Also it was DH's first ever race!

Yes! That's the one good thing about getting older as a runner! I am not competing with kids any more! Not that I really ever compete with anyone...lol

 

[DopeyBadger]

Yay for being old! DH placed 1st in his age division and I placed 3rd in mine at our 5k today! Also it was DH's first ever race!

That's awesome! Congrats!

 

[Miranda]

Well, that was kind of a disaster, but I finished my 5 miler. I had been hoping to go < 1:00:00 because my training has been less than stellar over the winter, and I did and even PR'd... 57:42. That is a 1 minute PR on the nose for 5 miles (I did 58:42 last September).

Disaster 1: I realized in the car on the way that I'd forgotten my headband. I am a heavy sweater, and even though it was about 33F, I knew I would regret this. As it turned out, we could have gone back... we only live about 5 minutes from the race start, we were only like halfway there when I realized it, and we already had a 20 min buffer... and the start was delayed 10+ minutes due to an ambulance on the course.

Disaster 2: I realized as we got out of the car that I'd forgotten my Garmin. I rely on this heavily since I do Galloway intervals. I had to use the Strava app to even record the run at all, but I had no notifications or any sense of how fast I was running at all with my phone in my SPIbelt.

Disaster 3: This was not really a disaster technically, but it ended up for a crappy Strava entry. It only recorded the course as being 4.6 miles and 46:50 for a time for a 5 mile (certified) course, although I don't see any gaps in the map or places it might have paused to lose the 10+ minutes? And also my unfamiliarity with how the app works left me somehow tracking time even after I thought I stopped the app. It didn't record any further distance, but by the time I realized I was supposed to hit the flag button to "finish" the workout, it recorded 22 extra minutes (beyond the moving time of 46:50 that it had) but no distance, so now my 5 mile race entry shows 4.6 miles, 1:08:43 (14:43) instead of like 57:42 (11:33).

Wow miles 3 and 4 were TOUGH. It was a mostly downhill finish from just beyond the 4 mile marker, but getting up the hill was super tough and I had to walk quite a bit especially in mile 4. There was about 0.5 mile of bad hill and Strava is showing at some parts of the hill the grade was like 40%.

Overall I am happy with the race, but mad at myself that I forgot the Garmin. I think I could have had a little bit more even of a performance if I'd been sticking to my intervals rather than just walking when I got too winded. This led to me skipping a lot of intervals in the first 2 miles, and then maybe taking too many in the second 2.

 

[michigandergirl]

Trying to catch up...spent that last week in the Smoky Mountains with the family for spring break. We had a great time and great weather, but I didn't run at all. I attempted to run one day but this flatlander is not accustomed to mountain running! The cabin we rented was at an elevation of about 2000ft and the surrounding streets were so steep that I gave up after about 30 seconds. I did do a fair amount of walking, but my run today was tough - 7 miles in snow (there is no such thing as spring in MI) - that 7 miles felt like a marathon.

Congrats to everyone who had a race this weekend! A lot of goals accomplished. Keep up the hard work.

QOTD: After a race in which you reached your goal v/s a race in which you did not, how much of a different person are you between the two?

I am always pleasantly surprised when I reach a goal and if I don't, I know I can always try again.

QOTD: Are any of your family members runners as well? Do you run with them? How competitive are you with them?

I am the lone runner in the family. My kids have no interest, at least not yet. DH likes to bike, but hates running. My mom used to run and was quite good at it, she was a faster runner than I am, but get this - she's a smoker! She could consistently run our local 25K at an 9:00 pace - so unfair! I have a feeling she doesn't run anymore because the smoking has caught up with her. My sister will occasionally do a fun run 5K with me, especially if there's beer at the finish.

QOTD: What other hobbies do you have other than running?

I like to garden, not so good at vegetables yet, but I pride myself on my perennials. I also love to read books. I like yoga. I love to travel and plan family vacations, including camping. I'm trying to convince DH to drive our travel trailer down to Disney's Fort Wilderness next spring (we've never taken it on a long journey).

QOTD: Todays QOTD is a request. I think we may have touched on the subject matter before, however with new folks coming to the thread, I think some topics can/should be discussed more than once. How often people replace their running shoes? And how often they try out completely new ones or if they stay with same model and style always?

I can usually tell by feel when my shoes need replacing, likely around 350 to 400 miles. I can get a few more miles out of them on the treadmill with the older ones. I have 2 or 3 in rotation. I've always worn Asics shoes. I like that they are instantly comfy the moment I take them out of the box, no other brand does that for me. For the last year and a half I've been wearing the Cumulus 16's & 17's.

Phew, I think that's about it! Oh wait, just wanted to add that I love the Olympics too! And congrats to everyone that raced the last two weekends!

 

[Slogger]

Well, that was kind of a disaster, but I finished my 5 miler. I had been hoping to go < 1:00:00 because my training has been less than stellar over the winter, and I did and even PR'd... 57:42. That is a 1 minute PR on the nose for 5 miles (I did 58:42 last September).

Congrats @Miranda for finishing your 5 miler AND getting a PR.
Congrats also for getting it done even without some of your favorite accessories.
Way to go!

 

[BuckeyeBama]

Back from WDW - great trip, but picked up a head cold toward the end. Had some great runs in WDW - weather in the mornings was perfect for running. The band did great and the kids had a blast. Awesome doing "the world" with a huge group of friends every once in a while.

 

[BikeFan]

Wow, 121 pages! I miss a few weeks, and I'm hopelessly behind! Looks like everyone's been keeping up on the miles and the races, so congratulations to all for getting out there. I just wrapped up my first 50 miler trail race, which had rain/snow/sleet, because of course it did. It always snows in April in the South. I just can't have nice things, with "things" being dry, run-able trails! The course was an out-and-back, with some loops at the turn-around for those of us doing the 50M race, and by the time I was ready to head back to the finish for the final 15 miles, the trail had already seen 1000+ runners turn it into a muddy bog. And because who wants anything easy, I also decided to get lost coming back, and may have run an extra mile or two - who knows, since my GPS died right before that. I did eventually find my way back to the correct trail, and despite taking 4+ hours to cover the final 15 miles, I did finish, despite the mud. Good times! Kudos to my wife, who came out to stand in the cold for 12 hours (there may have been a McDonald's run on her part during the race, but she's pleading the Fifth) to cheer me on, and my son, who served as my pacer for 8 of the slowest miles he's probably ever run. I told him his main job was to lead the paramedics to wherever I eventually collapsed. Luckily, his duties did not end up requiring identification of the body. On a positive note, marathons seem so much shorter now. 26.2 miles?!? Easy-peasy, where do I sign up?

If you'd have told me five years ago that I'd finish a 50-miler, I'd have called you crazy, yet here we are. I saw all sorts of runners out there on the trail - young, (very) old, male, female, skinny, not-so-skinny, etc., yet the despite the conditions, they were making forward progress and completing a 50-miler, a 50K, or a trail marathon. And most of them were doing it with a much more positive attitude than you'd expect to find on a completely miserable day running though the mud in the middle of the woods. I was never far from a laugh, a smile, or a cheerful word of encouragement from another runner. Not to be too cliche, but the Nike commercial from a few years back was right - greatness is in all of us. Go find your greatness, folks.

 

[Baloo in MI]

Spring Break comes to an end. I left Florida yesterday and it was 88 degrees. Got home to Michigan today and it was 28 degrees! Brrrr and Grrrr! Wonderful time in Disney World with the family and my girls performance at Disney Springs was the highlight of the trip!

QOTD: Are any of your family members runners as well? Do you run with them? How competitive are you with them?

I am the only runner in the family, but my younger daughter is slowly turning into a runner. She ran with me three of the mornings we were in Disney. It is such a joy to run with her. I continue to leave the decisions to her, no pressure, she lets me know how long and how often. Such a gift!

BTW, in MK and just had a dole whip. Life is good.

Hey I might have bumped into you! Don't tell anyone but I had three dole whips over the days we were in Magic Kingdom!

QOTD: What other hobbies do you have other than running?

Outside of running my focus is my family but I also like to read, go to the movies and camp/backpack.

QOTD: Todays QOTD is a request. I think we may have touched on the subject matter before, however with new folks coming to the thread, I think some topics can/should be discussed more than once. How often people replace their running shoes? And how often they try out completely new ones or if they stay with same model and style always?

Not much I can share here that was not already shared. I work off two pairs and trade out around 350. I am a big fan of Brooks Ghost and Glicerine.

QOTD: Another question suggested from another forum member for today. I think its a great question! How do you know if you are a heal striker/forefront runner/mid-sole, etc. I see these terms a lot but do not fully understand them. Do you just find out from having someone watch you run? Does it change your training strategies or shoe purchases at

Again, not too much to add. I did do a good running form class and learned a lot. I do pay attention to my wear patterns and try to focus on cadence.

 

[DopeyBadger]

@Miranda @BikeFan
Congratulations on meeting your goals this weekend despite the less than ideal conditions and events of the day!

 

[gjramsey]

Blue Bell Fun Run race report: My goal for the race was to run the hills at a pace I hope to maintain during my Ragnar relay this upcoming weekend. Goal accomplished! Blue Bell is run in Brenham Texas and there are some hills there! The Garmin tells me I had 325 feet of elevation gain, and 377 feet of elevation loss. It is a nice mix of hills, some long and steady and some short and steep. My goal was 48 minutes, and I hit the 5k mat at 24:03 and the second 5k was also at 24:03, and a recorded finish time of 48:07 (obviously some rounding happened). What is it call if you don't run a positive or negative split???

The race is on the cheaper side of things, the medal has not changed at all over the last couple of years, but the free ice cream at the finish makes up for that!

My 15 year old, who had not trained at a lick, finished the 5k in 28:08, and complained all day yesterday about his legs hurting.

 

[Hannahinwonderland]

I've been losing steam. I started off really well, but my goal is kind of far away (Feb next year), it's super busy for me right now, and the weather has been cold. How can I not lose all of my progress?? Any tips to get myself motivated? I barely even have time to go out for a run right now, and it's really hard to use that spare time to do it.