The Running Thread - 2016

ATTQOTD: During a training cycle, for pre-run fueling I like to supplement a basic breakfast with some UCAN and then carry GU Roctane energy gels for fueling along the way. Post run/recovery I like to have some Muscle Milk.
 
QOTD: What are your go to vitamins, dietary supplements, protein powders/liquids, and/or nutrition bars/energy gels do you use during training/events? What benefits do you look for and get from them? Any other go to recovery items besides the standard beer and chocolate milk?
For those that run ultra's, duathlon's, triathlon's does your nutrition intake change by events and distance?

Not reinventing the wheel here. I just switched from gu gels to clif bloks. No real difference noticed in performance; I just like the mouth consistency and ease of the gummies vs. gel.

Favorite recovery drinks are Citrus Cooler Gatorade and Chocolate Milk. I am thankful most races use lemon/lime sports drink, I refuse to drink anything blue (and, yes, I realize neon yellow is just as unnatural and off-putting if I really think about it).
 
QOTD: What are your go to vitamins, dietary supplements, protein powders/liquids, and/or nutrition bars/energy gels do you use during training/events? What benefits do you look for and get from them? Any other go to recovery items besides the standard beer and chocolate milk?
For those that run ultra's, duathlon's, triathlon's does your nutrition intake change by events and distance?
I don't take any vitamins really or dietary supplements. I do have whey protein but that isn't for my running but more for my weight lifting that I do. I do like cliff bars or the gatorade protein bars as well. Recovery I don't drink anything more that chocolate milk.
 

Thanks for this question! This is something I have been thinking about a lot (especially for recovery), and even looked at the Feed website last night and see the variety of food stuffs they have

ATTQOTD: For long runs, I will eat oatmeal or a banana about 1 hour before hand. I usually have some sports beans or a GU every 5 miles. Tried salt tablets for the first time during the Disney marathon. Will probably start using those more on long runs as well. We do keep a lot of gatorade in our fridge for post run drinks in the nice hot humid mornings we have here in Houston. Have tried Clif shot blocks and honey stingers stuff in past, but have not noticed any difference in what they provide.
 
Anyways today I am pretty sore and looking for some recovery workout advice???
Good job getting it done! I'm partial to a yoga session the day after my long runs, but I don't recommend that on extremely sore muscles: too easy to over stretch and do damage. Maybe just a short walk to get the blood moving, and a little gentle stretching?

ATTQOTD: I eat very little meat and my B12 level was low - I've noticed a marked increase in recovery, muscle strength and overall energy since adding a B12 supplement to my daily diet. Other than that I just eat a well balanced diet of mostly vegetables, complex carbs and occasional fish or chicken. I have chronic hypoglycemia, so keeping my blood sugar up is critical, every day and especially while running: gels are my go-to on the run - I'm partial to GU and Clif Shots. And I need to get my blood sugar back up quickly after a hard run or race, so I immediately reach for Gatorade or a Pepsi or even a few glucose tabs as soon as I finish, then follow that with chocolate milk or a Greek yogurt to add some protein and fat to keep my blood sugar up until I eat a meal.
 
QOTD: I have a tendency toward low vitamin D levels so I take a vitamin D/Calcium supplement. Before long runs/races, I have a PB&J sandwich. During long runs/races, I use nuun and shot blocks, 1 every 20 minutes or so starting around 45 minutes in.
 
QOTD: What are your go to vitamins, dietary supplements, protein powders/liquids, and/or nutrition bars/energy gels do you use during training/events? What benefits do you look for and get from them? Any other go to recovery items besides the standard beer and chocolate milk?
For those that run ultra's, duathlon's, triathlon's does your nutrition intake change by events and distance?
I can't stomach gels while running (stick in my throat and cause coughing fits) but they are fine on the bike. I prefer more "solid" type food while riding, like Clif bars. I'll go with Honey Stinger chews while running, one chew every 20 mins or so. Water and Gatorade. Nothing unusual, really. Like @FFigawi said, it's a crapshoot once you hit the run on a Half Iron or longer race...you'll feast on whatever you can get your hands on. And when it comes to the run on long course, there is something magical about flat Coke!
 
QOTD: What are your go to vitamins, dietary supplements, protein powders/liquids, and/or nutrition bars/energy gels do you use during training/events? What benefits do you look for and get from them? Any other go to recovery items besides the standard beer and chocolate milk?
For those that run ultra's, duathlon's, triathlon's does your nutrition intake change by events and distance?

ATTQOTD: I'm not a marathoner so mine is pretty basic. I'm gonna be back asking you all too many questions the more miles I pile on this year.
Currently test driving some fuel sources I received in a running box for valentines day for my long runs...only using them on my weekend runs just in case my system says a big NOPE :) so TBD on what I like.
I drink a lot of water. I'll have a powerade or gatorade if I'm feeling like I need it after a run.
I eat lean protein nights before I run. Actually most nights lately now.
I make sure to have at least bagel or bread with peanut butter and banana far enough before I run.
 
QOTD: What are your go to vitamins, dietary supplements, protein powders/liquids, and/or nutrition bars/energy gels do you use during training/events? What benefits do you look for and get from them? Any other go to recovery items besides the standard beer and chocolate milk?
For those that run ultra's, duathlon's, triathlon's does your nutrition intake change by events and distance?
One of my favorite topics, so excuse the long post if you're not interested (and be forewarned it contains MATH :teacher: ).

My choices for pre-event and during the event are based on a compilation of energy use calculations from different sources. I like to start with the during the event calculation.

First I take my body weight in pounds (161) and convert it to kilograms (161/2.2 = 73.2)
I then input the distance I'm running in kilometers (marathon = 42.195)
Mulitply the distance in kilometers your are running by your body weight in kilograms (73.2*42.195) and this gives us the total kcal burned during the event (3087.9)

Next it's necessary to make an estimate as to how much leg muscle mass I have and possible carbohydrate storage.
Take body weight (73.2) and multiply by 0.21 if male (or 0.2 if female) which gives us 15.4kg (the estimated muscle mass). *This number is an assumption based on an average body type
Multiply the muscle mass by 80 (15.4*80) to get the estimated CHO Storage in Legs (1229.5 g)

Next input your estimated VO2max (mine is 57 based on a calculation using my age, body weight and resting heart rate). *Boo Garmin 620 heart rate strap broken!
Take VO2max and input into the calculation for vVO2 (m/s) = 2.8859 + 0.0686 * (VO2max-29)
My vVO2 (m/s) is 4.8 m/s
Convert to mph (4.8*2.23694) = 10.75 mph
Convert to pace (60/10.75) = 5.58 (Minutes in decimals) or 5:35 min/mile vVO2

Next it's necessary to determine what % VO2max (pace) you are attempting to run the distance at. For me I will be doing the following...

Pace @ %VO2max (mph) = 10.75mph*0.71 = 7.63 *My 71% VO2max was determined based on finding a finishing time that correlated with my goal. I have %VO2 max calcs from 55-85%.
Pace in min/mile in decimals = 60/7.63 = 7.86 or 7:52 min/mile
Next calculate the total time of the event = 7.86 min/mile*26.2 miles = 205.9 minutes
Convert to hours = 205.9/60 = 3.43 hours
Convert to time = 3:25:55

Here is where the math gets more interesting...

Take your total estimated kcals burned (3087.9) and multiply it by 5% less than the % VO2max (pace) at which you plan to run the event at. For me 3087.9*((71-5)/100) = 2038.02
Thus, my estimated CHO use for running a marathon at my fitness level for the pace I desire will burn an estimated 2038.02 carbohydrates.
Subtract out my storage based on leg muscle mass (2038.02-1229.5) = 808.56 kcal carbs needed
Subtract out 100 kcals from liver CHO storage (808.56-100) = 708.56 kcals of carbs needed to complete race at desired pace
Divide kcals of carbs needed by time in hours to complete race (708.56kcals / 3.43 hours) = 206.5 kcals / hour
Convert kcals of carbs into grams of carbs (206.5 kcals / 4 grams) = 51.6 g carbs / hour

Thus, to finish my marathon at my fitness level at my desired pace and with my current body statistics, I need to consume 51.6 g carbs per hour.

To back calculate, if I were to go into the marathon with normal CHO storage in my legs and didn't take any carbs in while racing I would crash at 15.8 miles (((1229.5/2038.02)*3.43)*60)/7.86 = 15.8

Some important things to note:

-If I consume 52 g carbs per hour I need to drink 26 ounces of water (It takes 1 ounce of water to absorb 2 g carbs). However, if it is a hot race this ratio will need to increase (thus water intake increase) because other parts of your body will require more water. But if you dehydrate and then consume carbs the body takes precedence for gut absorption and pulls water away from the muscles thus dehydrating your muscles at a faster rate (a vicious cycle).
-You can also roughly back calculate if you were to change your carbs/hour as to when you would crash based on your estimated pacing at your fitness level.
-In the past I have used e-Gel brand because of the smooth consistency, the mixture of carb sources (82% Maltodrextin / 18% Sucrose), higher content per package (37g carbs and 150 cals), Vitamin B6 which helps in the energy transfer process, amino acids aiding in decreased recovery timing and higher than normal sodium and potassium content.
-The average marathon runner finishes in between 60-70% VO2max. If you are new to the distance, you are likely to be on the lower side. The elite marathon runners are capable of running at 81-85% VO2max. You should only be in this area as a possible goal finishing time if you are a seasoned veteran or truly a naturally gifted athlete.

BUT, I'm trying to move away from being dependent on in race gels and trying to carb load prior to the race (hence the mention of normal CHO leg storage). A carb loading procedure on the day prior, if done appropriately, has been shown to increase leg muscle CHO storage by as much as an additional 90%! That means instead of 1229.5 g carbs I could store 2336 g carbs (1229.5*1.9). Theoretically, this means I could run at 81% VO2max and finish at 3:01:17 without taking in any carbs (but I'm not physically capable of that pacing yet, so carbs would not be my limiting factor, rather running efficiency, etc. would be instead). Here is the calculation to get there.

Much quicker calculation, but I'm attempting to use the Western Australian carb loading procedure (massive carb loading day prior to event primarily through liquid carb source).
It recommends 10.3g carbs / kg body weight (10.3*73.2) = 753.8 g carbs
80% should be in liquid form to reduce bulk on day prior to race (753.8*0.8) = 603.0 g carbs
Total calories of carbs (603*4) = 3015 kcals carbs
Carbs should be approximately 90% of the diet (3015/0.9) = 3350 kcals consumed in day prior
Calories from Protein and Fat is 10% (3350*0.1) = 335 kcals
Protein (g) is (335/4) = 83.8 g Protein
Fat (g) is (335/9) = 7.8 g Fat

Thus my diet on the day prior to the race would consist of:
83.8 g Protein
7.8 g Fat
150 g carbs from food based sources (potato, bread, spaghetti, etc.)
603 g carbs from liquid source (I use E-Fuel, for many of the same reasons as E-Gel). I was thinking of using UCAN but at this point can't justify the price difference until I know this method will work for me.

My goal is to be able to carb load prior to the event, and then take in minimal fueling during the race (including sodium, potassium, and some carbs) with the goal of reducing carbohydrates as a limiting factor to my performance.

The morning before the race I typically consume a bagel with peanut butter and honey and a banana. I also drink 20 ounces of water 2 hours prior to the last time I can get to a restroom. I take in no more water until 15 minutes prior to the race when I consume one E-Gel with 8 ounces of water. I typically consume between 4-5 ounces of water per mile (more if it is hotter out, but never to the point that I feel sloshing in my gut).

Again apologies for the long post, but hopefully you enjoyed my reasoning on my in race consumption. :cool1:
 
This year at the WDW Marathon I saw a woman right at the very beginning take one of the popsicle sticks the medical folks were handing out. She took a long hard look at it and I could just tell she thought it was gu or something and was about to eat it. "It's Vaseline", I told her, "don't eat it!". She let out a big "Ooooohhh!" and threw it away...that would have been a terrible way to start 26.2 miles!
THis made me laugh is that bad... that would have been awful to eat glad you warned her!



QOTD: What are your go to vitamins, dietary supplements, protein powders/liquids, and/or nutrition bars/energy gels do you use during training/events? What benefits do you look for and get from them? Any other go to recovery items besides the standard beer and chocolate milk?
For those that run ultra's, duathlon's, triathlon's does your nutrition intake change by events and distance?
!
I take a children's vitamin., it has everything I need if I'm not getting enough from food. I drink Orange Juice every morning and milk twice a day. I use Clif gels and shot bloks for during running and clif bars as my go to before a race many times as an extra something since I sometimes have trouble eating before a race. I'm a vegetarian so I just have to be careful getting proper protein and that vitamin B12 like was mentioned above, but besides that children's vitamin nothing else special. I do eat not too long after running which always has protein in it.
 
Congratulations! That makes you an Ultra Marathoner! Shame on that race for not having better signage or volunteers to direct runners.

I passed a lady wearing a marathon maniacs shirt and we chatted before I moved on. She said the same thing about me being an ultramarathoner.

Ummm.....the fault was all mine. I read in the packet that the course would split. There was a volunteer in a yellow day-glo vest directing people on the right side of the road. He was standing next to a large white van. There might have even been some cones out there.
See how amazing it is that I missed all that.

Here's what happened.....we had just run through a historic old town and were headed out to the highway. The sun was just coming up and directly in my eyes. Lots of glare from the road and my sunglasses. Anybody that has run DL half when you hit the streets in Anaheim should know this situation.
I saw a guy next to the van and saw him motion to the left and a steady stream of runners headed left but a few ran behind the van and I didn't see where they went. I thought we all were headed left to avoid oncoming traffic. Never gave it a second thought.

The only thing that could have helped in that situation might have been a sign, strategically placed about 100 yards past the split, that confirmed which course we were on. BUT I WAS THE ONLY RUNNER THAT MISSED my turn.

I'll take the rap for this one.
 
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ATTQOTD: I don't eat before morning runs, even races. My stomach is just too sensitive. I probably need to work on changing this, but I haven't. I have found I can handle fueling early. So, if I am running a 10k or longer, I will take Clif Shot Blocks with 3x salt (I honestly am the saltiest sweater I have ever seen, literally crusted in salt) starting at 20 minutes into the run. I will alternate 2 blocks, then one block every 20 minutes. I will drink water with those, and I will drink a 50/50 mix of gatorade and water every ten minutes between those blocks.

I now take a daily multivitamin, but have been thinking of adding other supplements now that I've passed the big 4-0.
 
QOTD: What are your go to vitamins, dietary supplements, protein powders/liquids, and/or nutrition bars/energy gels do you use during training/events? What benefits do you look for and get from them? Any other go to recovery items besides the standard beer and chocolate milk?
For those that run ultra's, duathlon's, triathlon's does your nutrition intake change by events and distance?

So before/during an event I generally consume sports beans. During the race I will also have water and if the distance is long enough that my beans aren't doing enough I'll have Gatorade/Powerade. It depends on when the race starts and how much I ate before as well as the race length whether or not I eat real food before. I mostly just want the energy to go on without caffeine since I react poorly to it.

Post-race I like bananas and water and whatever granola bars or goodies that are offered. I hate chocolate milk so I avoid that. A number of my races have wine at the end because we have a local 'Run the Vineyard' series with 20ish races so I have that. Then I grab food.

I take a one a day vitamin and vitamin D.
 
QOTD: What are your go to vitamins, dietary supplements, protein powders/liquids, and/or nutrition bars/energy gels do you use during training/events? What benefits do you look for and get from them? Any other go to recovery items besides the standard beer and chocolate milk?

Take a gummy vitamin every day, the only gel I can tolerate is the power gel as its thinner.. flavors vary (fruit only- can't do vanilla, chocolate etc) I tend to take one every 3 miles.. For liquid I usually run with propel (powdered) as most races use yellow Powerade which I can't drink at all..

Post race my fav is an ice cold Diet Coke..
 
QOTD: What's the most embarrassing moment that you have experienced or witnessed during a run?

Been away for a while but I'm glad to see everyone's been getting out there and keeping up the training. I just heard from another sister-in-law that after watching all the fun our family had during WDW marathon weekend (she was there cheering on the five of us running the half but didn't run herself), she's now going to train for the Disneyland Half in Sept.! It's pretty exciting to see more and more of my extended family getting involved in running. When I ran my first half in 2012, none of my family had done such a thing. Now, ten of us have run a half (or more!) and at least two more are planning on it!

As for the QOTD, I've had several embarrassing episodes while running. I tripped over my own shoelaces in the middle of a half last October. Should've known better . . .

Just last month, while crossing a street right in front of a car which had thoughtfully stopped to let me cross, I kicked up a wire loop lying on the road and managed to lasso my feet together. Again, I hit the road like a sack of bricks. Ugh... I'm such a klutz! And this is why I run - I'm too uncoordinated for any other sport! :-)
 
QOTD: What are your go to vitamins, dietary supplements, protein powders/liquids, and/or nutrition bars/energy gels do you use during training/events? What benefits do you look for and get from them? Any other go to recovery items besides the standard beer and chocolate milk?
For those that run ultra's, duathlon's, triathlon's does your nutrition intake change by events and distance?
One of my favorite topics, so excuse the long post if you're not interested (and be forewarned it contains MATH :teacher: ).

My choices for pre-event and during the event are based on a compilation of energy use calculations from different sources. I like to start with the during the event calculation.

First I take my body weight in pounds (161) and convert it to kilograms (161/2.2 = 73.2)
I then input the distance I'm running in kilometers (marathon = 42.195)
Mulitply the distance in kilometers your are running by your body weight in kilograms (73.2*42.195) and this gives us the total kcal burned during the event (3087.9)

Next it's necessary to make an estimate as to how much leg muscle mass I have and possible carbohydrate storage.
Take body weight (73.2) and multiply by 0.21 if male (or 0.2 if female) which gives us 15.4kg (the estimated muscle mass). *This number is an assumption based on an average body type
Multiply the muscle mass by 80 (15.4*80) to get the estimated CHO Storage in Legs (1229.5 g)

Next input your estimated VO2max (mine is 57 based on a calculation using my age, body weight and resting heart rate). *Boo Garmin 620 heart rate strap broken!
Take VO2max and input into the calculation for vVO2 (m/s) = 2.8859 + 0.0686 * (VO2max-29)
My vVO2 (m/s) is 4.8 m/s
Convert to mph (4.8*2.23694) = 10.75 mph
Convert to pace (60/10.75) = 5.58 (Minutes in decimals) or 5:35 min/mile vVO2

Next it's necessary to determine what % VO2max (pace) you are attempting to run the distance at. For me I will be doing the following...

Pace @ %VO2max (mph) = 10.75mph*0.71 = 7.63 *My 71% VO2max was determined based on finding a finishing time that correlated with my goal. I have %VO2 max calcs from 55-85%.
Pace in min/mile in decimals = 60/7.63 = 7.86 or 7:52 min/mile
Next calculate the total time of the event = 7.86 min/mile*26.2 miles = 205.9 minutes
Convert to hours = 205.9/60 = 3.43 hours
Convert to time = 3:25:55

Here is where the math gets more interesting...

Take your total estimated kcals burned (3087.9) and multiply it by 5% less than the % VO2max (pace) at which you plan to run the event at. For me 3087.9*((71-5)/100) = 2038.02
Thus, my estimated CHO use for running a marathon at my fitness level for the pace I desire will burn an estimated 2038.02 carbohydrates.
Subtract out my storage based on leg muscle mass (2038.02-1229.5) = 808.56 kcal carbs needed
Subtract out 100 kcals from liver CHO storage (808.56-100) = 708.56 kcals of carbs needed to complete race at desired pace
Divide kcals of carbs needed by time in hours to complete race (708.56kcals / 3.43 hours) = 206.5 kcals / hour
Convert kcals of carbs into grams of carbs (206.5 kcals / 4 grams) = 51.6 g carbs / hour

Thus, to finish my marathon at my fitness level at my desired pace and with my current body statistics, I need to consume 51.6 g carbs per hour.

To back calculate, if I were to go into the marathon with normal CHO storage in my legs and didn't take any carbs in while racing I would crash at 15.8 miles (((1229.5/2038.02)*3.43)*60)/7.86 = 15.8

Some important things to note:

-If I consume 52 g carbs per hour I need to drink 26 ounces of water (It takes 1 ounce of water to absorb 2 g carbs). However, if it is a hot race this ratio will need to increase (thus water intake increase) because other parts of your body will require more water. But if you dehydrate and then consume carbs the body takes precedence for gut absorption and pulls water away from the muscles thus dehydrating your muscles at a faster rate (a vicious cycle).
-You can also roughly back calculate if you were to change your carbs/hour as to when you would crash based on your estimated pacing at your fitness level.
-In the past I have used e-Gel brand because of the smooth consistency, the mixture of carb sources (82% Maltodrextin / 18% Sucrose), higher content per package (37g carbs and 150 cals), Vitamin B6 which helps in the energy transfer process, amino acids aiding in decreased recovery timing and higher than normal sodium and potassium content.
-The average marathon runner finishes in between 60-70% VO2max. If you are new to the distance, you are likely to be on the lower side. The elite marathon runners are capable of running at 81-85% VO2max. You should only be in this area as a possible goal finishing time if you are a seasoned veteran or truly a naturally gifted athlete.

BUT, I'm trying to move away from being dependent on in race gels and trying to carb load prior to the race (hence the mention of normal CHO leg storage). A carb loading procedure on the day prior, if done appropriately, has been shown to increase leg muscle CHO storage by as much as an additional 90%! That means instead of 1229.5 g carbs I could store 2336 g carbs (1229.5*1.9). Theoretically, this means I could run at 81% VO2max and finish at 3:01:17 without taking in any carbs (but I'm not physically capable of that pacing yet, so carbs would not be my limiting factor, rather running efficiency, etc. would be instead). Here is the calculation to get there.

Much quicker calculation, but I'm attempting to use the Western Australian carb loading procedure (massive carb loading day prior to event primarily through liquid carb source).
It recommends 10.3g carbs / kg body weight (10.3*73.2) = 753.8 g carbs
80% should be in liquid form to reduce bulk on day prior to race (753.8*0.8) = 603.0 g carbs
Total calories of carbs (603*4) = 3015 kcals carbs
Carbs should be approximately 90% of the diet (3015/0.9) = 3350 kcals consumed in day prior
Calories from Protein and Fat is 10% (3350*0.1) = 335 kcals
Protein (g) is (335/4) = 83.8 g Protein
Fat (g) is (335/9) = 7.8 g Fat

Thus my diet on the day prior to the race would consist of:
83.8 g Protein
7.8 g Fat
150 g carbs from food based sources (potato, bread, spaghetti, etc.)
603 g carbs from liquid source (I use E-Fuel, for many of the same reasons as E-Gel). I was thinking of using UCAN but at this point can't justify the price difference until I know this method will work for me.

My goal is to be able to carb load prior to the event, and then take in minimal fueling during the race (including sodium, potassium, and some carbs) with the goal of reducing carbohydrates as a limiting factor to my performance.

The morning before the race I typically consume a bagel with peanut butter and honey and a banana. I also drink 20 ounces of water 2 hours prior to the last time I can get to a restroom. I take in no more water until 15 minutes prior to the race when I consume one E-Gel with 8 ounces of water. I typically consume between 4-5 ounces of water per mile (more if it is hotter out, but never to the point that I feel sloshing in my gut).

Again apologies for the long post, but hopefully you enjoyed my reasoning on my in race consumption. :cool1:

@Keels is not going to like all of this math :lmao::lmao::lmao:
 












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