The 'Planning Backlash'

[erc]

In one word: Plan.

Okay, how about a few more words? In the dark ages of the mid-2000's we used to pretty much follow one of the touring plans in the "Unofficial Guide". Not precisely but pretty close. Those plans always called for hitting a few popular rides at opening, and then getting FastPasses for later. It all worked out fairly well, but I always found my family pooped out before the full plan could be implemented. Now the latest "Unofficial Guide" provides similar touring plans but with FP+ strategies. So I imagine I will try to follow those new plans. It seems to again involve hitting a few rides at opening and having FP+ reservations for later in the day. I'm sure I am missing something but is the main gripe having to secure the FP+ before entering the park? Or is it not as easy to get a FP+ time slot for popular rides even well in advance?

 

[JanaDee]

Mostly, some people (myself not included) are upset they can no longer hoard/accumulate FP tickets (including multiple ones for the same attraction) throughout the day and then use them all in succession towards the end of the day.

*sigh*

 

[erc]

For me, the biggest downside is not being able to easily switch up park days, once I am there, if something goes sideways (weather, illness, bad night of sleep etc).

With paper FP, every day was a clean slate. I miss that.

Ahh. That is a good example. Thanks. That is something to consider.

 

[Laketravis]

Okay, how about a few more words?

I had previously posted my thoughts on that question and in relation to the topic of this thread (Post 175) but here's the actual content:

Is it really that onerous, unusual or unreasonable to have to spend a few hours planning and reserving stuff to do for something like that?

I think it is. Maybe not so much for ADR's because that tends to be an event that can last an hour or two or even most of the evening depending on the venue, so I don't mind spending some time months in advance planning which type of food we want each day and where and then seeing if it's available. If it isn't, then a second or third choice is usually involved but then there are always those once a day or more look-backs to see if our primary choice has become available. And that can end up consuming a lot of time over the course of days, weeks, or even months.

Compound that with the added complication of now having to coordinate ADR times with FP times. You can say that it doesn't take but a few minutes to open MDE and schedule three FP's for a park, but that's only the mechanical aspect of the endeavor.

That's why I'm not so sure it's "worth" it for FP's - reservations for activities of only a few minutes in duration as opposed to ADR's for activities of hours in duration. It's the scheduling of FP's that I am finding to be an inordinate amount of effort in return for questionable gain (but let's not start that argument up again) because it takes just as much time if not more to schedule three FP's for the day for the desired attractions in the desired park in the desired order to minimize transit time and at the desired times so as to not conflict with the already set ADR's. Thank goodness we only do one sit-down ADR a day, I can't imagine the logistics involved when anyone might also be having to reserve breakfast, lunch, dinner, (aka Deluxe Dining) AND three FP's each day for multiple days.

Yeah, it can get pretty involved.

 

[JanaDee]

That could be the case if you never made ADRs. But if you did have dinner ADRs each night, it really wasn't the case anyway. So the change to FP+ didn't really change anything.

It has only been a little over a year since the "YOU WILL EAT HERE AND YOU WILL PAY FOR IT IF YOU CHANGE YOUR MIND" policy has been in effect.

Even if you made ADR's, it was quite easy to remain flexible until the above policy was instituted.

 

[nugov2]

Okay, how about a few more words? In the dark ages of the mid-2000's we used to pretty much follow one of the touring plans in the "Unofficial Guide". Not precisely but pretty close. Those plans always called for hitting a few popular rides at opening, and then getting FastPasses for later. It all worked out fairly well, but I always found my family pooped out before the full plan could be implemented. Now the latest "Unofficial Guide" provides similar touring plans but with FP+ strategies. So I imagine I will try to follow those new plans. It seems to again involve hitting a few rides at opening and having FP+ reservations for later in the day. I'm sure I am missing something but is the main gripe having to secure the FP+ before entering the park? Or is it not as easy to get a FP+ time slot for popular rides even well in advance?

That and the fact that they want you to do it 4 months after you booked ADR's and other tours that can be booked much earlier. Those times can greatly impact the other activities you have planned because now you have to change what you already planned and hope to still get a reservation or trade the 15-20 minutes it would have taken with FP+ for the 2-4 hours it could now take to do that attraction that is important to the people traveling with you. If the system is now to reserve rides in advance than the process needs to be the same for everything or it just doesn't make sense and adds to frustration.

 

[anniemae]

For me, the biggest downside is not being able to easily switch up park days, once I am there, if something goes sideways (weather, illness, bad night of sleep etc).

With paper FP, every day was a clean slate. I miss that.

This. Once you book those precious fp's and ADR's you are locked into a park.

Someone on another thread pointed out that you could "just go to another park," or change plans by skipping the fp's and just go on rides without long wait times.

Now that may be fine for folks who go a lot or who are local and visit on a whim. But for those of us that don't go often have more difficulty with that line of thinking. My kids wanted to ride 7DMT, when we were there the wait was consistently 1 1/2- 2 hours. You better believe we were going to mk the morning we had a fp booked to ride that ride and go to our BOG lunch reservation.

But if we wanted to say, go to Epcot that morning, sleep in late, or skip a park altogether and go to DD, we really couldn't without loosing out on riding 7DMT and BOG, which we would not be able to get again and get we would hit with a cancel fee. And we are not rope drop people, so getting up at the crack of dawn to sprint to the ride is not an option for us.

 

[mummabear]

Heck, we are fortunate enough to have just booked a trip to Hawaii (Aulani, so not a complete break from Disney ). Between airline miles and vacation club points it won't be too much out of pocket for accommodations and airfare, but a trip like that for a family of 5 from NY is a $12,000 vacation, not including food and excursions/activities. Sure, we will spend a lot of relaxing beach time, but I'm quite certain I will spend a heck of a lot more time researching and planning things we are going to do on the islands, so that we get the most out of a once in a lifetime trip, than I've ever spent making ADRs and FP+ reservations. Wouldn't most people?

Honestly Hawaii doesnt really alot of planning, a little research but not alot of actual booking.
It certainly doesnt need you to book your dining reservations 180 (190) days out, it doesnt need you to plan each and every day and have (at least) 3 appointments to keep each day.
You may decide on what you want to do/see, you may book a tour or two. You may look into where you want to eat and you even call and book a couple BUT you dont have to log in at midnight in the hopes of not missing out on your "tour"

 

[mcd2745]

It has only been a little over a year since the "YOU WILL EAT HERE AND YOU WILL PAY FOR IT IF YOU CHANGE YOUR MIND" policy has been in effect.

Even if you made ADR's, it was quite easy to remain flexible until the above policy was instituted.

Actually, the inital CC guarantees and no-show fee went into effect Oct 26, 2011. So, more than 3 years ago, and not "a little over a year". Plus, with all the hoarding and double or triple booking going on prior that, there was probably less availability and less flexibility then.

 

[Laketravis]

Actually, the inital CC guarantees and no-show fee went into effect Oct 26, 2011. So, more than 3 years ago, and not "a little over a year". Plus, with all the hoarding and double or triple booking going on prior that, there was probably less availability and less flexibility then.

I believe that initially it was only for a few select locations. It wasn't applied globally until much later.

 

[SmithSmith]

This. Once you book those precious fp's and ADR's you are locked into a park.

Someone on another thread pointed out that you could "just go to another park," or change plans by skipping the fp's and just go on rides without long wait times.

Now that may be fine for folks who go a lot or who are local and visit on a whim. But for those of us that don't go often have more difficulty with that line of thinking. My kids wanted to ride 7DMT, when we were there the wait was consistently 1 1/2- 2 hours. You better believe we were going to mk the morning we had a fp booked to ride that ride and go to our BOG lunch reservation.

But if we wanted to say, go to Epcot that morning, sleep in late, or skip a park altogether and go to DD, we really couldn't without loosing out on riding 7DMT and BOG, which we would not be able to get again and get we would hit with a cancel fee. And we are not rope drop people, so getting up at the crack of dawn to sprint to the ride is not an option for us.

BoG lunch FP+ has a cancel fee?

 

[nugov2]

I believe that initially it was only for a few select locations. It wasn't applied globally until much later.

 

[mcd2745]

I believe that initially it was only for a few select locations. It wasn't applied globally until much later.

That's correct. It was initially all restaurants with character meals, and signature restaurants. It was expanded to all restaurants 2 years later. But's let's face it, no one needed to worry about replacing a reservation at Marakkesh. It was mainly an issue for the restaurants involved in the inital policy.

 

[JanaDee]

Actually, the inital CC guarantees and no-show fee went into effect Oct 26, 2011. So, more than 3 years ago, and not "a little over a year". Plus, with all the hoarding and double or triple booking going on prior that, there was probably less availability and less flexibility then.

It went resort-wide in either Oct or Nov of 2013, not just at a few select restaurants.

You're welcome to google it to confirm.

 

[anniemae]

BoG lunch FP+ has a cancel fee?

Regardless of a cancel fee or not, we would still miss out on the meal, which was almost a full time job to secure and the entire family wanted to do this. We were not missing it unless we absolutely had to. My point was that we were locked into MK that day due to a hard to secure lunch and fp.

 

[mcd2745]

This. Once you book those precious fp's and ADR's you are locked into a park.

Someone on another thread pointed out that you could "just go to another park," or change plans by skipping the fp's and just go on rides without long wait times.

Now that may be fine for folks who go a lot or who are local and visit on a whim. But for those of us that don't go often have more difficulty with that line of thinking. My kids wanted to ride 7DMT, when we were there the wait was consistently 1 1/2- 2 hours. You better believe we were going to mk the morning we had a fp booked to ride that ride and go to our BOG lunch reservation.

But if we wanted to say, go to Epcot that morning, sleep in late, or skip a park altogether and go to DD, we really couldn't without loosing out on riding 7DMT and BOG, which we would not be able to get again and get we would hit with a cancel fee. And we are not rope drop people, so getting up at the crack of dawn to sprint to the ride is not an option for us.

Everything in life is a trade-off. Why does anyone expect this should be different? If you want to change your plans, you can. You just have to give up something else in return. In your example, that would be your 7DMT FP and $10 a head. In your inital plan, yes, you presumably are giving up some measure of flexibility for the ability to ensure you ride 7DMT (barring a mechnical shut down or something) with a minimal wait, and get to eat at BOG. That's the trade-off. It's up to each indivual family to decide what's most important to them, what they're willing to forego to acheive what's important to them, and proceed accordingly.

 

[SmithSmith]

Regardless of a cancel fee or not, we would still miss out on the meal, which was almost a full time job to secure and the entire family wanted to do this. We were not missing it unless we absolutely had to. My point was that we were locked into MK that day due to a hard to secure lunch and fp.

So is there a cancel fee or not?

 

[Laketravis]

Everything in life is a trade-off. Why does anyone expect this should be different?

It's when the balance of the trade becomes tilted that positive changes are both needed and made.

If a growing number feel that planning requires more effort than the benefits that planning yields, dissatisfaction ensues and adjustments are necessary.

 

[Angel Ariel]

So do not even bother with FP+, they are not required or even necessary as you can stay with your typical large group planning you have done before.

For some that may be an option. For our extended family, it is not. My brother was the poster-child for anti-Disney. He hates crowds, lines...while our experiences as kids led me to love Disney, they did the opposite for him.

He *loved* our last trip there. And when you ask him why, he will unequivocally tell you it was because of FP. Suggesting planning a Disney trip to him that included no FP would result in him pretty much saying he wouldn't go.

Others may see it differently, they may not agree with him - but that is the reality I deal with when I plan trips for our extended family. Since I want *everyone* to have an enjoyable time, that entails using FP+.

And you do not need FP+ to experience the rides and attractions, but as I suspect you have always need to do with a large family group, there will still be some advance plannin involved.

FTR, my post wasn't about complaining or being negative. The OP of the thread posited a question about how hard can choosing 3 rides be, if you already know what park you will be in. I was merely answering his question by demonstrating what questions/thought need to be put in when you're dealing with a large family with children's ages (and heights) vary widely. If we were just traveling with our nuclear family, the 3 of us, choosing 3 rides is easy. With 9 people, and 3 children who can't all ride the same things, it requires more thought.

I never once said that you needed FP+ to experience the rides and attractions. And, if you read my post, I did detail out the extent of what our advance planning was for our last extended family trip to WDW. The extent of our *in park time* that was planned before our arrival in FL was what park to be in on which day, and 1 ADR/day. That's it.

 

[nugov2]

Everything in life is a trade-off. Why does anyone expect this should be different? If you want to change your plans, you can. You just have to give up something else in return. In your example, that would be your 7DMT FP and $10 a head. In your inital plan, yes, you presumably are giving up some measure of flexibility for the ability to ensure you ride 7DMT (barring a mechnical shut down or something) with a minimal wait, and get to eat at BOG. That's the trade-off. It's up to each indivual family to decide what's most important to them, what they're willing to forego to acheive what's important to them, and proceed accordingly.

Yes everything is and why I said if they allowed booking at the same time people still might not get exactly what they wanted, but wouldn't feel the same anger/frustration as spending 30-1hr booking ADR's and tours and planning it all out exactly how they wanted to then 4 months later seeing all of that planning was for nothing b/c the FP don't line up with it and now you have to try to rearrange or lose restaurants or skip rides or suffer the wait. Why is it so hard to implement a system where you book both at the same time to lessen the stress and frustration. I wouldn't be mad if I couldn't get ADR's and FP to line up when booking together(disappointed...yes, but it is understandable b/c it is a popular vacation place), but when you make me book at different times and my first set of time booking ends up being an utter waste 4 months later, I'm not really ticked.