The 'Planning Backlash'

[nugov2]

I'm at a loss for what you're trying to get across...

When I said: "WDW is more to me me than just a theme park?"

Did you think I was implying that WDW is more than just a theme park... because it is also a resort destination with shopping, golf, entertainment, nightlife, water activities, etc.?

If that's the case then that's not what I meant.

I meant "WDW is more to me than just a theme park... because it holds a special place in my heart and is a permanant fixture in my life." I would never equate to "just a theme park" for that reason.

Yes, but some people can feel that way and still feel it is just a theme park. WDW has a nostalgia factor and why I want to go, but it is just a theme park. I wouldn't want to go every year b/c there is just too much out there to experience, but it is one of a handful of places that I will keep going back to that doesn't have family there.

 

[mom2rtk]

It's really not a big deal in terms of time if you just go in and pick them once (ditto for ADRs).

When you start trying to optimize everything, that's when the planning gets time-consuming.

I think that first-time visitors are probably benefitting from FP+. It's encouraging them to do that bit of pre-planning that we all know can help make a trip better. It's a bit better than walking in and pulling out a park map.

I also think that people who go frequently don't mind as much. If you know you will be back this year (or ten times this year), it's not a big deal and you might appreciate the prescheduled FPs.

It's the people in the middle....who don't go frequently (1x a year or less) and who knew how to ride a lot of rides and enjoy a lot of rides in a day....those are the people who don't like FP+ from what I read here anyway.

Just my theory anyway. Planning is the eye of the beholder

The key now is to be willing to pre-plan as much as possible AND be flexible when things don't work out as you planned when you are actually there. This is really asking a lot of people!

Guilty as charged.

I'm weary of having people who can pop in any given weekend telling me I shouldn't worry about missing this or that attraction, or that I should be happy wandering around shopping and soaking up the atmosphere. For many in this category, they only have one day at DHS or Epcot in a year or for many, even longer. They don't have the luxury of compensating for tiering by coming back the next weekend.

 

[SmithSmith]

Yes, but some people can feel that way and still feel it is just a theme park. WDW has a nostalgia factor and why I want to go, but it is just a theme park. I wouldn't want to go every year b/c there is just too much out there to experience, but it is one of a handful of places that I will keep going back to that doesn't have family there.

Hi there, Nugov. I haven't talked to you since that throwaway thread.

I do not go every year, nor would I go every year, but in no way would I view it in the same regard as a Six Flags.

I would also speculate that the people who take the time to post here on a regular basis wouldn't do so if they saw WDW as "just a theme park".

 

[Sharpdisney]

Such good ideas, issues, and concepts here. Had to summarize to remind myself (mostly quotes from you great folks):

1) books, web sites, travel agencies, discussion boards, Touring Plans and color-coded spreadsheets far pre-date FP+
2) The key now is to be willing to pre-plan as much as possible AND be flexible when things don't work out as you planned when you are actually there.
3) Nugov2 mentioned the frustration when Disney changes park hours a few days ahead, while you’ve had to make reservations 60 or 180 days ahead; plus ADRs that are hoarded by people to keep plans flexible.
4) Disney planners are like dogs (Travis I am ONLY kidding!!!! ) Seriously, I am just joking there…
5) My WHOLE daily life is rigid schedules, I don't want that on vacation. – I feel you there!
6) Eyehartdisney had a good idea – why aren’t the ADR’s and FP+ both at the same time? 60 days or whatever?

 

[MrInfinity]

It's the people in the middle....who don't go frequently (1x a year or less) and who knew how to ride a lot of rides and enjoy a lot of rides in a day....those are the people who don't like FP+ from what I read here anyway.

I'd say I fit this definition of in the middle... I don't go frequently (1x a year or less), I knew how to ride a lot under FP-, and I enjoy a lot of rides in a day.

However I happen to like FP+. It works well to accomplish those goals. To me it works better than FP- did. i.e. I can now get on more rides with less total time spent getting on the rides than I could under FP-.

On the overall planning issue, there are two sides to this...

1) Does 2 weeks at Disney World take more time to plan than say 2 weeks to Hawaii or 2 weeks to Europe? No. It takes far less time to plan. If I had to rank them, I'd say:

2 weeks in Europe
2 weeks in Hawaii
2 weeks in Disney World

There isn't all that much to plan. I mean... it's making dinner reservations. Big deal. I can pick dine-in restaurants I want to eat at and make a reservation.

Then there's the Fast Passes, which take an hour to do an entire trip.

That's pretty much it. Maybe you'll plan some things like BBB, P&P, or whatever other incidental activities you want to do.

Planning a trip to Europe... Oh my. The currency, the maps, the learning about stuff, the prices, the getting around, it would just be months of intense planning. Compare this to Disney where your food, your transportation, even getting from the airport is practically handed to you. You -- pick some rides, and you can change them any time you want to so you can't really even pick them wrong. That's it really.

2) Then there is Disney vs other theme parks for the day-park experience. Well, this isn't terribly relevant because I would never drop $200 on a dinner at Six Flags. I would at Disney World. I would not take a look over QS menus at Six Flags. I would not care about parades, evening entertainment, fireworks, seeing the opening show, or meeting a character at Six Flags. I would at Disney World. So they're not the same. SF you just go cuz all they have are roller coasters and rides. You ride them, woohoo. A day at Disney we plan so many other things to do than just the rides. So in that regard, of course it costs more time to plan a day at Disney vs a day at Six Flags. As the OP said tho, they are a day at the park vs a resort vacation. If I lived local to Disney, the other stuff like eating there would probly get old, and it would reduce closer to a Six Flags. But fortunately I don't so when we go it's a special occasion.

 

[goherdibg]

In the past, I had my touring strategy and my dining reservations made. However, if I woke up one morning and wasn't feeling Magic Kingdom as I had originally planned, I could just go over to Epcot with no problem. If I had a dining reservation at Magic Kingdom, I could either cancel it or just make sure I left Epcot with enough time to get to my dining reservation. Now, if I decide I'm not feeling Magic Kingdom, I'm going to check to make sure I can now book FP+ for the rides I want at Epcot before I decide to change my plans.

Excellent point and possibly the best reason I am not a huge fan of FP+. On our last trip (pre FP+) we were in the World for 9 days. Even though I had planned out which parks we were going to be in every day and made ADR's to match, the last 4 days we completely changed our plans as to which park we visited each of those days. Not a huge deal as we simply got FP-'s inside the park we were in that day at the kiosks. Today I would have to try and "reschedule" my FP's and lose some flexibility.

 

[JimmyV]

I'm at a loss for what you're trying to get across...

When I said: "WDW is more to me me than just a theme park?"

Did you think I was implying that WDW is more than just a theme park... because it is also a resort destination with shopping, golf, entertainment, nightlife, water activities, etc.?

If that's the case then that's not what I meant.

I meant "WDW is more to me than just a theme park... because it holds a special place in my heart and is a permanant fixture in my life." I would never equate to "just a theme park" for that reason.

It's semantics. Let's break it down. Instead of using the shorthand term "WDW", substitute in the long-hand "The resort destination in Central Florida with shopping, golf, entertainment, nightlife, water activities and more!". Now, in looking at your closing paragraph above, it would read something like: "The resort destination in Central Florida with shopping, golf, entertainment, nightlife, water activities and more is more to me than just a theme park." No one is going to argue with that, and no one is arguing against that. But it is the expanse of the overall entertainment options that causes it to transcend "theme park" status, not the place that it holds in your heart. Such an intangible can never be the basis for transcendence. However, if one is referring not to "WDW", and not to "The resort destination in Central Florida with shopping, golf, entertainment, nightlife, water activities and more is more!", and is instead referring to the Magic Kingdom, then all of a sudden, one is now referring to an amusement park (with a theme--causing some to use the term "theme park"). And if even if one has a love for it the way a mother loves a child, it still is an amusement park. Nothing more. Just a really well built one, and apparently, a really well loved one.

 

[Jennasis]

The parks are just theme/amusement parks.

WDW is more than just a theme park.

 

[JimmyV]

On the overall planning issue, there are two sides to this...

1) Does 2 weeks at Disney World take more time to plan than say 2 weeks to Hawaii or 2 weeks to Europe? No. It takes far less time to plan. If I had to rank them, I'd say:

2 weeks in Europe
2 weeks in Hawaii
2 weeks in Disney World

There isn't all that much to plan. I mean... it's making dinner reservations. Big deal. I can pick dine-in restaurants I want to eat at and make a reservation.

You've fallen into the trap of looking at this from the perspective of one who goes to WDW frequently and "knows the ropes"--both figuratively and literally, and who goes to Europe and/or Hawaii far less frequently, and perhaps as a once-in-a-lifetime trip. Now put yourself in the shoes of someone who lives in California, goes to Hawaii every year in October, likes to stay at the Hilton Waikoloa Village Resort on the Big Island, likes to spend a day horseback riding in the Waipio Valley, likes to spend a half day snorkeling at Honaunau Bay, likes to spend a day at Volcano National Park,
and prefers to hang around the resort the rest of the time. And imagine that this person like to take in a luau, dine well at Merriman's and Brown's Beach House, and enjoy the remaining meals at smaller, more casual places and sushi joints. How long do you think it would take this person to plan that vacation? About 11 clicks of a mouse? Now imagine that this same person is planning a once-in-a-lifetime trip to WDW. Harder to plan? Oh yeah!

I know people who go to Paris 4 or 5 times a year. And WDW never. If and when they decide to go to WDW, which will be harder and longer to plan--their next trip to Paris of their first trip to WDW?

 

[snoopy352]

I'd say I fit this definition of in the middle... I don't go frequently (1x a year or less), I knew how to ride a lot under FP-, and I enjoy a lot of rides in a day.

However I happen to like FP+. It works well to accomplish those goals. To me it works better than FP- did. i.e. I can now get on more rides with less total time spent getting on the rides than I could under FP-.

On the overall planning issue, there are two sides to this...

1) Does 2 weeks at Disney World take more time to plan than say 2 weeks to Hawaii or 2 weeks to Europe? No. It takes far less time to plan. If I had to rank them, I'd say:

2 weeks in Europe
2 weeks in Hawaii
2 weeks in Disney World

There isn't all that much to plan. I mean... it's making dinner reservations. Big deal. I can pick dine-in restaurants I want to eat at and make a reservation.

Then there's the Fast Passes, which take an hour to do an entire trip.

That's pretty much it. Maybe you'll plan some things like BBB, P&P, or whatever other incidental activities you want to do.

Planning a trip to Europe... Oh my. The currency, the maps, the learning about stuff, the prices, the getting around, it would just be months of intense planning. Compare this to Disney where your food, your transportation, even getting from the airport is practically handed to you. You -- pick some rides, and you can change them any time you want to so you can't really even pick them wrong. That's it really.

2) Then there is Disney vs other theme parks for the day-park experience. Well, this isn't terribly relevant because I would never drop $200 on a dinner at Six Flags. I would at Disney World. I would not take a look over QS menus at Six Flags. I would not care about parades, evening entertainment, fireworks, seeing the opening show, or meeting a character at Six Flags. I would at Disney World. So they're not the same. SF you just go cuz all they have are roller coasters and rides. You ride them, woohoo. A day at Disney we plan so many other things to do than just the rides. So in that regard, of course it costs more time to plan a day at Disney vs a day at Six Flags. As the OP said tho, they are a day at the park vs a resort vacation. If I lived local to Disney, the other stuff like eating there would probly get old, and it would reduce closer to a Six Flags. But fortunately I don't so when we go it's a special occasion.

It's not the physical time required to do the planning itself with WDW. It's the mental time needed to know which of those ADRs and FP+s you want to reserve. It's not like people are going to do zero planning and then suddenly at 180+10 randomly decide where they are going to eat, right? Same with the FP+ as now you have to take the mental time to plan the entire day out at a specific park BEFORE you take the teeny hour out of your day to do the physical planning itself at 60 days out.

 

[Luckybee]

Please don't misunderstand what I'm about to say . It isn't for bragging purposes but only for perspective. Dh and I have travelled. Alot. We've been to many continents and have done extensive month long trips. We never use a travel agent no matter how complicated the itinerary, and we always travel independently ie: we don't do tours no matter the destination. I enjoy planning these trips.
When it takes more time to plan a 1 week Disney focused trip then it does to plan a month in Australia and the South Pacific then imho something is out of whack. When I can be more spontaneous on this kind of a trip then I can at Disney then for us I think Disney has gone too far.
When I plan a trip like I described above we will know where we're going to be at a given time and day, what things we might want to do ie: snorkelling on the barrier reef, sightseeing in a big city etc etc. We'll have flights and hotels booked, and cars rented. We wont decide in advance though what activities that we'll be doing on an hour by hour basis every day of the week. We wont choose all of our dining for every night of a months holiday (although we might book perhaps one particular hard to get reservation a week or 2 in advance).
We were at Disney under the new system for the first time in Oct. and for us there was no spontaneity whatsoever and we felt it and missed the old Disney.
I resented the amount of planning for so little return.
We decided to not do Disney this coming May when we'll be in Orlando and only do Universal. That went out the window when D newbie friends of ours were going to Orlando at the same time. So we decided to do just one or two days with them at Disney. Lo and behold we're already having issues in that we booked BOG and the dessert party and now need to change the day we'll be at MK. Of course it is impossible. Four months in advance. I got into Ferran Adrià 's El Bulli with less notice. And yes this isn't Fp reservations but dining , but when one adds FP+ to the mix, and we actually have to go through the same nonsense for rides it all seems silly to me.

 

[DebbieB]

I've been going to WDW for 20 years, usually a couple times a year. From the very first trip in 1994, I always planned what park I was going to on which day. Then I planned if I wanted to make any dining reservations. Sometimes I moved things around as it got closer. So nothing there has changed.

Back then there was not any type of fastpass, we stood in lines. Kind of always had a mental "game plan" around the park. The thing the original fastpass did was you couldn't plan in advance what time you were going to get. At 11:00am, you could get a return for 11:45am or you could get a return for 7:30pm, depending on the attraction. Then you had to look at any dining reservations you had to see if the time time would fit. What I love about FP+ is I can plan 3 in advance, any time of the day. I know I have those 3, I don't have to wonder what return times are available and getting to the machine at a time I can use. What's nice too about FP+ is you can get the later ones sometimes only 5 or 10 minutes away. No waiting a minimum of 45 minutes.

 

[Luckybee]

On the overall planning issue, there are two sides to this...

1) Does 2 weeks at Disney World take more time to plan than say 2 weeks to Hawaii or 2 weeks to Europe? No. It takes far less time to plan. If I had to rank them, I'd say:

2 weeks in Europe
2 weeks in Hawaii
2 weeks in Disney World

There isn't all that much to plan. I mean... it's making dinner reservations. Big deal. I can pick dine-in restaurants I want to eat at and make a reservation.

Then there's the Fast Passes, which take an hour to do an entire trip.

That's pretty much it. Maybe you'll plan some things like BBB, P&P, or whatever other incidental activities you want to do.

Planning a trip to Europe... Oh my. The currency, the maps, the learning about stuff, the prices, the getting around, it would just be months of intense planning. Compare this to Disney where your food, your transportation, even getting from the airport is practically handed to you. You -- pick some rides, and you can change them any time you want to so you can't really even pick them wrong. That's it really.

I strongly disagree with you. Two weeks in Europe or Hawaii is a piece of cake compared to Disney today. Matter of fact just planned 3 weeks and it took far less time than did my last trip to Disney.

 

[DisneyKidds]

The parks are just theme/amusement parks. WDW is more than just a theme park.

Agreed, but when together you are planning which park to get to for EMH, making an ADR at a restaurant in a park or resort, figuring out which park to hop to, making FP+ reservations in one of the parks.......taken together, as I believe it should be, you are planning the whole of your visit to WDW, not just one of the parks. I just don't get the whole 'you pushed me over the edge because now I have to select my rides' negativity. Heck, it's helped us in planning our overall WDW vacation because I can hop around knowing I can actually, you know....DO SOMETHING.....in the evening when I wasn't assured of that before. That's certainly worth an hour of my time.


Like I said, there are other reasons not to like FP+, chief among them being 'tied to a schedule' and not having the flexibility and decide when you wake up in the morning that you want to go to Epcot when you already booked FP+ in the MK.

However, for a many thousand dollar vacation that consumes a significant portion of your family vacation time, it seems to me a bit of planning is appropriate at WDW, just like you'd do for any other vacation.

 

[pigletgirl]

It's all personal preference. End of story. Some like to plan and some don't.

I feel it is ridiculus to even be able to make appointments to ride a roller coaster. But this is what theme parks are now.

I don't think you can even compare Disney to a real world appointment. I find FP+ to be great. It's nice for my family knowing that we don't have to be up at the crack of dawn if we don't want to be. I find it easier to plan ADR's and touring plans with them.

But then again, I am a big planner and planning a Disney vacation is enjoyable to me. We're 2.5 months away from booking our ADR's and we already have an idea of what places we plan on dining at. It may also help me decide if we need to keep our park hoppers or not.

My husband is not a fan of My Magic Plus. He likes lots of spontaneity so he feels confined by the limitations Disney sets. We're just two very different people who see it differently.

No one is forcing anyone to plan a Disney vacation. There are many other places people can vacation besides a theme park in Florida.

 

[Jennasis]

I don't think you can even compare Disney to a real world appointment. I find FP+ to be great. It's nice for my family knowing that we don't have to be up at the crack of dawn if we don't want to be. I find it easier to plan ADR's and touring plans with them.

But then again, I am a big planner and planning a Disney vacation is enjoyable to me. We're 2.5 months away from booking our ADR's and we already have an idea of what places we plan on dining at. It may also help me decide if we need to keep our park hoppers or not.

My husband is not a fan of My Magic Plus. He likes lots of spontaneity so he feels confined by the limitations Disney sets. We're just two very different people who see it differently.

No one is forcing anyone to plan a Disney vacation. There are many other places people can vacation besides a theme park in Florida.

Again...it's just personal preference. My FP+ reservations felt like appointments to me and stressed me out worrying about them.

They didn't for you.

Just the way of the World now.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Now imagine how complicated/frustrating/irritating your planning would have been if your visit to the Louvre involved "locking in" specific times of the day to see the Mona Lisa, Winged Victory, the Venus de Milo, the Raft of Medusa, Madonna on the Rocks and the Coronation of Napoleon! WDW has introduced a level of "micro planning" that even a trip to France does not require!

Might have been helpful.

The 3 yo screaming "I can't see the Mona Lisa" when we finally got to it would have been avoidable.

And I don't "micro-plan" for Disney. I find the concept foreign even when discussed and folks asked for their touring plans to be critiqued even in the legacy days. I certainly refuse to do it now. I don't consider blocking 3 movable windows that I am under no requirement to follow micro-planning. YMMV.

On our day trip to Philly in October, I did book my arrival window for the Independence Hall. In fact, due to circumstances beyond my control--I booked 3 windows as illness prevented us from going the original day and accommodating things like -- going to mass -- necessitated adjustment. So i booked it 3x when I was done.

When we finally did arrive, I told the park ranger that 2 sets of my tickets were not needed. Hopefully they could give them to someone else.

FP+ was much easier and I wasn't charged a service fee and could move my "appts" around.

In fact for many NPS places--prebooking your appt is highly recommended to avoid long waits. But one is not mandated to use this option.

 

[Aurora0427]

I've been to Disney ten times since 2000, two of those times since FP+. Disney has always taken planning, but I find myself much less relaxed with FP+ and the other thing is the ADRs. Having to make those 6 months in advance or just take what you can get if it's later. On this last trip I found myself on my phone a lot- checking wait times and rearranging fast passes. Before the advent of the iPhone, I'd leave my cell in the room and not use it until we left. I don't feel like I can disconnect the way I used to.

That being said, we have a small child, and I think trips with small children have to be planned more carefully, and FP+ does help with that.

I don't dislike FP+, I am more resentful of having to use my phone to rearrange FP and check wait times during the trip. I still love Disney, but it's definitely changed since my first trip (that I remember) in 2000.

 

[DisneyKidds]

I strongly disagree with you. Two weeks in Europe or Hawaii is a piece of cake compared to Disney today. Matter of fact just planned 3 weeks and it took far less time than did my last trip to Disney.

I'll let you know.....I have to start planning our 9 day trip to Aulani for next July. Got the hotel, air and rental car, now I have figure out where we wanna go, what we want to do, and what we should eat when we aren't hanging at the resort.

 

[pigletgirl]

I'll let you know.....I have to start planning our 9 day trip to Aulani for next July. Got the hotel, air and rental car, now I have figure out where we wanna go, what we want to do, and what we should eat when we aren't hanging at the resort.

See, I find that more stressful. Disney has made quite easy for people to get their reservations made (pending on the website working... )

In Hawaii, Europe, Mexico, etc you have to get it all together yourself and you hope that it all goes well. There are many more unknowns doing that than booking FP+.