The Old Testament.

[STOPxmickeytime]

I believe what Jaimie said.
The Bible isn't something to be taken literally.
It's just a way to teach right from wrong and morals.

 

[chisnpeke]

Thank you! Finally, someone has explained faith in a way that I can understand.

You're welcome!

I can't say I would have faith if I was just told to have it because the Bible says to. It's actual experiences that I've had that have made me have faith. I might still believe in God but it would probably be a lot harder for me to without these experiences.

I think people just get to caught up in following every single little thing in the Bible and trying to be perfect when that is not possible. I just lead my life in the best way that I can. I have a personal relationship with God, I sometimes read the Bible. I like many of the Pslams in the Bible but I don't base my life around what is wrong and right in the Bible. I figure if God is a loving God, like the Bible SAYS, then he will have no problem with me be accepting of people of different sexual orientation because isn't that what God would want us to do...be accepting and loving? He will forgive me for having my ears pierced, having sex before marriage, and every other sin I've committed if I ask for His forgiveness. I live my life to my own morals, which I think and hope God would approve of. I treat the Earth I believe He created with respect. If it's not enough and I get sent to Hell, then at least I tried my best.

 

[BabyPiglet]

Sorry, but using that smiley to succeed that statement does imply "pot stirring".

I'm a little miffed that your professor actually took advantage of the class subject and used it to propagate his own views, but that's what you get these days when you have people willing to sacrifice the quality of education for their own egos.

Your point that the first dated manuscripts came after the times of Moses, Abraham, and Solomon are subjective ones. The Greek Septuagint and the Dead Sea Scrolls from the Qumran settlement are all translations that for the most part match up significantly well with the original Masoretic texts. There's no proof that the accounts have been solely orally related. The existence of New Testament manuscripts are even more geographically ubiquitous; that pretty much eradicates any possibility of collusion (which needless to say, there would be little incentive and tremendous expenses to do so) Moses' date of birth was estimated to be around the 2nd century BC, so I'm not sure what you mean by "happened hundreds of years before". There's plenty of carbon dating evidence that supports the existence of King Solomon's kingdom and the Biblical timeline that aligns Solomon's death with Shoshenq 1's conquest of Israel.

Clearly, the Bible cannot explain everything, and the fact that its testament spans beyond classical antiquity indicates that there's bound to have been variables to incur apparent inconsistencies. That being said, I do not believe in reasoning faith nor do I believe the Bible can be explained in objective terms. As far as literal inconsistencies go, you have to treat the text contextually as there were around 40 authors who wrote literature ranging from poetic psalms to objective anecdotal recounts.

I do not treat the Bible as a reference text or a historical text. I affirm my Christian faith in its teachings of sin and atonement, which makes more sense than the worldview that we came to be by chance. Again, it is "faith", which cannot be reasoned but it is instigated largely by the doctrines of the Bible, as opposed to its historical accuracies..

I used that smiley because I was surprised at how in-articulate my fellow college students were at debating. It was meant for that statement, and that statement only.

And my professor started the discussion only by saying most of the historical evidence we have of ancient isreal is from the hebrew bible. The students in the class then started debating the validity of it. My instructor sat back and listened, and in the end, gave us his opinion.

This is a college class, not a kindergarten one. I want to hear my teacher's opinions, and we, as students, are adults that have by now formed our own opinions. One professor's opinion is honestly not likely to influence us much, only make the class more interesting.

And to saratogadreamin, that's what I said just in different words.

 

[Sherwin]

I used that smiley because I was surprised at how in-articulate my fellow college students were at debating. It was meant for that statement, and that statement only.

And my professor started the discussion only by saying most of the historical evidence we have of ancient isreal is from the hebrew bible. The students in the class then started debating the validity of it. My instructor sat back and listened, and in the end, gave us his opinion.

From your OP, it sounds like it was a civilizations class, not a debate class. If you were expecting to hear academic rebuttals about a polemic subject matter such as this, then perhaps you signed up for the wrong class. I wouldn't expect any student to go into a given class prepared to spew out an argument defending their faith. I don't know of many Christians or Jews that carry around a list of counterarguments to atheistic confrontational viewpoints in their pockets.

I can't judge the context of how your professor expressed his opinions, and he is certainly entitled to them, but it sounds like he did not honor the curriculum and teacher's code of ethics by not proceeding with the course material, as he should have done. It was his obligation and responsibility to stop impertinent discussions (most particularly matters coined 'religious'), but he did not. I don't think he's being compensated to officiate a debate between Judeo-Christianity and Atheism, so clearly what took place is not appropriate.

I'm not upset that you brought up your concerns about historical anomalies in the Bible. That can be answered in many ways. I'm not upset either that everyone in your class seemed to have their own opinion to safeguard. I'm upset at what transpired in the wake of that discussion, in particular how the professor's actions (or lack thereof) were ethically questionable.

If you're proactively looking for an answer to your original question, I'd suggest you check out godandscience.org. It is a Christian apologetics website and albeit biased to your regards, it has some useful information in the history of the Bible from a Christian viewpoint (which is what you were looking for in the first place).

Ok, I'm done.

 

[saratogadreamin09]

I used that smiley because I was surprised at how in-articulate my fellow college students were at debating. It was meant for that statement, and that statement only.

And my professor started the discussion only by saying most of the historical evidence we have of ancient isreal is from the hebrew bible. The students in the class then started debating the validity of it. My instructor sat back and listened, and in the end, gave us his opinion.

This is a college class, not a kindergarten one. I want to hear my teacher's opinions, and we, as students, are adults that have by now formed our own opinions. One professor's opinion is honestly not likely to influence us much, only make the class more interesting.

And to saratogadreamin, that's what I said just in different words.

No, you said people wrote the bible. You never said God inspired it.

 

[DramaQueen]

From your OP, it sounds like it was a civilizations class, not a debate class. If you were expecting to hear academic rebuttals about a polemic subject matter such as this, then perhaps you signed up for the wrong class. I wouldn't expect any student to go into a given class prepared to spew out an argument defending their faith. I don't know of many Christians or Jews that carry around a list of counterarguments to atheistic confrontational viewpoints in their pockets.

I can't judge the context of how your professor expressed his opinions, and he is certainly entitled to them, but it sounds like he did not honor the curriculum and teacher's code of ethics by not proceeding with the course material, as he should have done. It was his obligation and responsibility to stop impertinent discussions (most particularly matters coined 'religious'), but he did not. I don't think he's being compensated to officiate a debate between Judeo-Christianity and Atheism, so clearly what took place is not appropriate.

I'm not upset that you brought up your concerns about historical anomalies in the Bible. That can be answered in many ways. I'm not upset either that everyone in your class seemed to have their own opinion to safeguard. I'm upset at what transpired in the wake of that discussion, in particular how the professor's actions (or lack thereof) were ethically questionable.

If you're proactively looking for an answer to your original question, I'd suggest you check out godandscience.org. It is a Christian apologetics website and albeit biased to your regards, it has some useful information in the history of the Bible from a Christian viewpoint (which is what you were looking for in the first place).

Ok, I'm done.

Woooah, okay as a university student I just have to comment on this.
This professors actions are in no way questionable. A College/University is a place where intelligent debate should absolutely be welcomed. Whether it be about politics, religion, or whatever topic may arise.
I don't understand why you think the professor did something wrong by letting a religious debate occur in a college setting?

I certainly don't think that a college professor is in any way responsible for stopping "impertinent discussions" when they are regarding the subject matter at hand. In fact, I'm sure this professor was happy to see this student engaged in conversation and defending/arguing their beliefs, rather than silently sitting in class listening.
In some of my classes it's like the prof is pulling teeth trying to get debate & discussion out of students.

I'm just confused as to why you think a college isn't the right place for an intelligent intellectual debate.

 

[BabyPiglet]

No, you said people wrote the bible. You never said God inspired it.

People did write the bible. I also said that god directed them to do so.

From your OP, it sounds like it was a civilizations class, not a debate class. If you were expecting to hear academic rebuttals about a polemic subject matter such as this, then perhaps you signed up for the wrong class. I wouldn't expect any student to go into a given class prepared to spew out an argument defending their faith. I don't know of many Christians or Jews that carry around a list of counterarguments to atheistic confrontational viewpoints in their pockets.

I can't judge the context of how your professor expressed his opinions, and he is certainly entitled to them, but it sounds like he did not honor the curriculum and teacher's code of ethics by not proceeding with the course material, as he should have done. It was his obligation and responsibility to stop impertinent discussions (most particularly matters coined 'religious'), but he did not. I don't think he's being compensated to officiate a debate between Judeo-Christianity and Atheism, so clearly what took place is not appropriate.

I'm not upset that you brought up your concerns about historical anomalies in the Bible. That can be answered in many ways. I'm not upset either that everyone in your class seemed to have their own opinion to safeguard. I'm upset at what transpired in the wake of that discussion, in particular how the professor's actions (or lack thereof) were ethically questionable.

If you're proactively looking for an answer to your original question, I'd suggest you check out godandscience.org. It is a Christian apologetics website and albeit biased to your regards, it has some useful information in the history of the Bible from a Christian viewpoint (which is what you were looking for in the first place).

Ok, I'm done.

In a college setting, debate is encouraged. This is a university and my instructor is not bound by any rules prohibiting discussion or religion, OR his opinions on the matter.

He taught us the material by putting it in an interesting format. Discussing the hebrew bible is one of the only ways to learn the history of ancient isreal. Most classes wish their students were interested in the material enough to fuel a debate. Like I said before, this is a college class, not a kindergarten one. Sitting around and listening to boring lectures all day is not going to help us absorb the information or apply it to the real world.

And as for my fellow students not being ready for a religious debate, I still think it's unfortunate. If you choose to speak opinionatedly about something, you should be able to back it up.

Woooah, okay as a university student I just have to comment on this.
This professors actions are in no way questionable. A College/University is a place where intelligent debate should absolutely be welcomed. Whether it be about politics, religion, or whatever topic may arise.
I don't understand why you think the professor did something wrong by letting a religious debate occur in a college setting?

I certainly don't think that a college professor is in any way responsible for stopping "impertinent discussions" when they are regarding the subject matter at hand. In fact, I'm sure this professor was happy to see this student engaged in conversation and defending/arguing their beliefs, rather than silently sitting in class listening.
In some of my classes it's like the prof is pulling teeth trying to get debate & discussion out of students.

I'm just confused as to why you think a college isn't the right place for an intelligent intellectual debate.

Thank you, Caitlin. I can always count on you.