The Official Non-Red Sox/Yankee Baseball Fan Thread

[Bob Slydell]

I heard that Craig Biggio is going to retire after this season. I'll miss him. And the HOF should be getting ready for him.

Dude still looks like a 19 year old kid.

 

[Missy1961]

Dude still looks like a 19 year old kid.

I know! He must be living right.

 

[Missy1961]

Talking about Houston, did anyone see that Hunter Pence, their rookie of the year candidate, was injured the other day? I hate when that stuff happens. And Moises Alou hurt his shoulder swinging the other day, so he didn't come off the DL yet, hopefully he will at the end of the week.

 

[Zippa D Doodah]

For the sake of convesation, is Biggio a lock for HOF? I now the guy is an excellent baseball player, and has had a long career. But is he one of the greatest ever to play the game? I don't intend to disrespect him, but is his real strongest asset longevity?

 

[Bob Slydell]

I think if nothing else, 3,000 hits probably punched his ticket into the HOF. That, combined with his longevity, especially with one team, with no scandals, should get him in. Is he one of the greatest ever to play? Overall, probably not, but at second base, he's one of the best. Robbie Alomar was probably a better overall second basemen, but injuries slowed him down a little quicker than Biggio.

I don't think Craig will be a first ballot guy (they tend to reserve that for very special players, like a Cal Ripken), but he should get in, yes.

 

[Missy1961]

For the sake of convesation, is Biggio a lock for HOF? I now the guy is an excellent baseball player, and has had a long career. But is he one of the greatest ever to play the game? I don't intend to disrespect him, but is his real strongest asset longevity?

You know, after I typed that, I almost deleted it. I don't think he's a first ballot HOFer, but he could get there after a while. But longevity is one of his assets, you're correct there. Maybe my vision is clouded because I've always liked him. He's from NY after all!

 

[Zippa D Doodah]

I'm "old school" enough that my first thought is 3000 hits gets you into the HOF. Yet in this era I ownder if 3K is the benchmark it used to be. Don't get me wrong; I like Biggio. But the HOF is not for nice guys who stuck around a long time and performed at an above average level. When I think HOF, I think legend.

ETA: I am similarly conflicted about Sammy Sosa and his 500 HR.

 

[Bob Slydell]

When I think HOF, I think legend.

There's very few "legends" playing baseball anymore, IMO.

ETA: I am similarly conflicted about Sammy Sosa and his 500 HR.

I think Sammy, along with Rafael Palmiero and Mark McGuire have too many allegations and scandals around them to get into the HOF, at least without having to go through a lot of years of voting.

IIRC, Pete Rose is the only player with 3,000+ hits not in the Hall. Palmiero has 3,000 hits, but I don't think he's eligible yet.

 

[MUFFYCAT]

He definetly won't get in on the first ballot. He does have lifetime .282 average with 3,000 hits.

Everytime the 3,000 hits or 500 home runs comes to play with getting into the HOF (When 500 home runs was your ticket to the HOF)
I think of Dave Kingman with his 442 home runs and .238 average.
You know he would never have gotten it.

 

[jen0610]

Breaking my own rule -- welcome back Jon Lester.

Granted, I selfishly hope he gets hammered in his first start back.

DH has been and will always be a Reds fan...don't get him started on how bad it is. But since Eric Wedge came on board, we have been watching and cheering on the Indians. It's nice to cheer on a team when you personnal know someone associated with that team. I went to high school with Eric and now work with his dad, Tim. It's a blast talking baseball with Tim.

Tim agreed that while it is great to see Lester back, would have been nicer to see him come back against another team...say the White Soxs (sorry WS fans, there is no love for the WS in this office). Eric looked extremly tired during that game and he just had to sit in the dugout making decision. The players had to be physically wiped out. Who ever set up the schedule for a late game in TX, then back to Cleveland for a game the next evening, needs to be shot. That is horrid scheduling.

 

[Zippa D Doodah]

There's very few "legends" playing baseball anymore, IMO.



I think Sammy, along with Rafael Palmiero and Mark McGuire have too many allegations and scandals around them to get into the HOF, at least without having to go through a lot of years of voting.

IIRC, Pete Rose is the only player with 3,000+ hits not in the Hall. Palmiero has 3,000 hits, but I don't think he's eligible yet.

I agree about the scarcity of legends. Each player voted in can't be a legend, but they should be the most special of their generation.

I agree that Sosa, Palmeiro, and McGwire won't be making it in. Throw in Pete Rose and we can start "Baseball Villains HOF" (Barry Bonds... come on down!) Sadly, there's a whole bunch of talent that will never darken the doors of Cooperstown.

 

[Missy1961]

Since we're talking HOF, here's a trivia question:
Who was the last player elected to the Hall of Fame who played his entire career with one major league team, prior to Tony Gwynn and Cal Ripken Jr?

 

[MUFFYCAT]

Carl Yastrzemski?

 

[Bob Slydell]

Since we're talking HOF, here's a trivia question:
Who was the last player elected to the Hall of Fame who played his entire career with one major league team, prior to Tony Gwynn and Cal Ripken Jr?

Did Ryne Sandberg play with anyone other than the Cubs?

I think Kirby Puckett was a Twin his whole career -- I don't know if he was the last inducted, though?

 

[MUFFYCAT]

Did Ryne Sandberg play with anyone other than the Cubs?

I think Kirby Puckett was a Twin his whole career -- I don't know if he was the last inducted, though?

I forgot all about Kirby.

 

[Missy1961]

Did Ryne Sandberg play with anyone other than the Cubs?

I think Kirby Puckett was a Twin his whole career -- I don't know if he was the last inducted, though?

Kirby is the correct answer!! We have a winner. What you win, I have no idea.

 

[cardaway]

Unless people are going to argue that they will start removing players from the HOF that cheated, I think the players listed will make in the HOF. Not on the first ballot, but will make it in before their time runs out.

As for legends, I don't anybody in any sport can really be seen as a legend anymore. Too much coverage 24/7. Too become a legend there has to be less exposure and especially less coverage of their less than wonderful side.

It's only now that many people are finding out some negative things about past legends. I would even argue that many past "legends" might not gain that status in the current media environment.

 

[Zippa D Doodah]

Cardaway makes a good point about the relation between media and "legend". For example, as a kid I remember my grandpa telling stories about Ty Cobb and how great he was, his tenacity and skill with a bat. The way my grandpa painted the picture, Cobb was a legend and hero. Only as an adult did I learn that Cobb was pretty much an unrepentant racist pig.

 

[JennyMominRI]

Shouldn't we be talking about the Trade deadline..Where do we thin Texiera is going?

 

[cardaway]

Shouldn't we be talking about the Trade deadline..Where do we thin Texiera is going?

We could but I think it would be a real short discussion. I doubt there will even be as much as last year, and last year was really slow when it came to meaningful trades.

Don't get me wrong. I would love for the Mariners to be able to pull off a trade that got us a #1 or #2 pitcher without giving up Adam Jones, but I don't see it happening. IMO most teams, including the Mariners, are actually better off sticking with their roster and not giving up the top prospect for a rented player.