The Official LOST Season Five *No Spoilers* Thread

[Kycha]

I'm absolutely certain he survives. I don't know it this has been already mentioned, but if you all recall back in season two when Juliet convinced Jack to operate on the the cyst in Ben's back, they said it was caused by a bullet from a childhood accident.

Damn! Those writers are good! I don't remember that. Now I have to go watch it again.

Betcha my guy can beat up your guy though!! Not that I don't love your guy also.

Wait. Didn't we have this debate already? My guy wins because your guy is dead. But it would be one heckuva fight!

 

[LuvBaloo]

I'm absolutely certain he survives. I don't know it this has been already mentioned, but if you all recall back in season two when Juliet convinced Jack to operate on the the cyst in Ben's back, they said it was caused by a bullet from a childhood accident.

I had forgotten all about that. This show has so many little things. Eventually I'll have to get the DVD's and watch them to see all the things I've missed.

 

[beattyfamily]

I didn't even realize until this week that Radzinsky was mentioned in Season 2 and that he killed himself with a shotgun. He died about 20 years later (from 1977).

This is NOT spoiler. It's from Season 2. I just didn't know that he's been metioned before this season until this week.

I love this show but there is so much to remember!!!

 

[Kycha]

I didn't even realize until this week that Radzinsky was mentioned in Season 2 and that he killed himself with a shotgun. He died about 20 years later (from 1977).

This is NOT spoiler. It's from Season 2. I just didn't know that he's been metioned before this season until this week.

I love this show but there is so much to remember!!!

Thank you! I knew there was a reason that guys name sounded soooo familiar.

 

[debraW76]

Sorry. I can't help myself.

On another note, Daniel's whole "Whatever happened, happened" time travel theory. I believe it. Not because he said it. Or even because Mrs. Hawkings said it. I believe it because the producers/writers for the show said it. Here is an excerpt from The Official Lost Podcast with Damon and Carlton. They specifically address the time travel issue. And state that nothing the Losties do will change the present or the future. So, even though Sayid shot young Ben, he did not kill him. And young Ben was always shot.

Damon Lindelof: Just a quick sort of side note in terms of the way that we deal with time travel on the show - we are very paradox averse; that is to say, when our characters are time traveling, nothing that they do can change the present or the future that you have seen. Which is different than you know, the conventional Back to the Future time travel story telling.
Carlton Cuse: Or Heroes.
Damon Lindelof: Or Heroes, yeah.
Carlton Cuse: For us, what we don't want is for the audience to not be invested in the flash-forwards. When you see that, it would be pretty meaningless if they were a changeable reality-
Damon Lindelof: Well, as far as time travel goes.
Carlton Cuse: As far as time travel goes, yes.
Damon Lindelof: As far as time travel goes, definitely not changeable.
Carlton Cuse: Right. Or that you have a different Jack popping up in an alternative reality which is different than the one that we've established.
Damon Lindelof: Right. That stuff is all really cool, I mean, the Heroes - case in point for all those who watch both shows, we certainly do and are big fans of Heroes - but if Hiro moves back to the past and says "There's a catastrophe that's gonna happen unless you guys save the cheerleader," if they do save the cheerleader, then theoretically future Hiro never exists to come back and warn them. But you know, that's paradox.
Carlton Cuse: The hard thing about this episode was actually structuring the time travel elements - or consciousness traveling elements - and avoiding paradox. But that again is something that I think a lot of people have speculated about - "are there parallel futures, are there sort of multiple universes and worlds that exist in the future depending on how events in the past play out?" and that is not our intention.
Damon Lindelof: Yeah, and Ms. Hawking basically explained those rules in the first episode, "Flashes Before Your Eyes" where she basically said that the universe has a way of course correcting, so even if you did something in the past that you didn't do before, somehow the sort of fabric of time like swoops in around you and fixes everything so things don't go off the rails. I assume probably after "The Constant" we're going to get a lot of questions like "Well, did Penny know when she went to go see Desmond at the stadium in 2001 that he had told her to wait by the phone back in 1994?" and all of these questions, and to that we say refer to the Ms. Hawking scene in "Flashes Before Your Eyes". She gives a fairly good explanation of how everything works.

Thanks Kycha for doing your homework and sharing your answers with the rest of the class.

I'm absolutely certain he survives. I don't know it this has been already mentioned, but if you all recall back in season two when Juliet convinced Jack to operate on the the cyst in Ben's back, they said it was caused by a bullet from a childhood accident.

I don't remember that at all. I am rewatching season 1 so maybe I will get to it again. Thanks for reminding me.

I didn't even realize until this week that Radzinsky was mentioned in Season 2 and that he killed himself with a shotgun. He died about 20 years later (from 1977).

This is NOT spoiler. It's from Season 2. I just didn't know that he's been metioned before this season until this week.

I love this show but there is so much to remember!!!

My husband said this. But I couldn't remember who he was so I looked it up. This is from Lostpedia for anyone else who may not remember:

At a later time, Radzinsky moved to the Swan station, where he worked with Kelvin Inman. Radzinsky was the originator of the blast door map, which he worked on with the aid of his photographic memory. He was able to fake a lockdown incident (having had a part in designing the station, he would know its workings intimately) making it possible to work on the map more deliberately. Radzinsky also edited the Swan Orientation film.

Kelvin explained to Desmond that, while he was asleep, Radzinsky committed suicide by putting a shotgun in his mouth and firing it, creating a blood stain on the ceiling. Because of the protocol, Kelvin had to bury him within 108 minutes.
​

Glad the weekend is here. Then come Monday it is only 2 more days until a new episode of LOST! Until then I am still waiting on the ackattach to post a new recap

 

[debraW76]

Oh and I forgot something else my dear Husband reminded me of. Remember when Ben said to Juliet "Because you are mine" or something of that nature? He thinks that maybe Juliet and Ben develop a nurturing relationship of some sorts. Like mother/son. Creepy to me but very believable. I am betting that she is the one that nurses him back to health.

 

[Amy]

Oh and I forgot something else my dear Husband reminded me of. Remember when Ben said to Juliet "Because you are mine" or something of that nature? He thinks that maybe Juliet and Ben develop a nurturing relationship of some sorts. Like mother/son. Creepy to me but very believable. I am betting that she is the one that nurses him back to health.

Ewwwwwww......

 

[TheZue]

Oh and I forgot something else my dear Husband reminded me of. Remember when Ben said to Juliet "Because you are mine" or something of that nature? He thinks that maybe Juliet and Ben develop a nurturing relationship of some sorts. Like mother/son. Creepy to me but very believable. I am betting that she is the one that nurses him back to health.

Maybe he didn't want other guys touching his "mommy" and that's why he was so over protective. If she ends up teaching him to read.......

 

[goofy's friends]

Maybe he didn't want other guys touching his "mommy" and that's why he was so over protective. If she ends up teaching him to read.......

 

[BabyPiglet]

I'm absolutely certain he survives. I don't know it this has been already mentioned, but if you all recall back in season two when Juliet convinced Jack to operate on the the cyst in Ben's back, they said it was caused by a bullet from a childhood accident.

Actually, I just watched those episodes, that's not what was said.

[In the operating room, we see Tom in the background. Pickett is stroking Colleen's face. Ben exits.]
JACK: What happened?
JULIET: Gunshot wound to the abdomen.
[Jack scrubs up, and notices some spinal x-rays hanging on a light screen.]
JULIET: Those aren't hers. Come on.
[They enter the operating room.]

Ben had a tumor, and they aren't caused by a bullet.

 

[debraW76]

Actually, I just watched those episodes, that's not what was said.

[In the operating room, we see Tom in the background. Pickett is stroking Colleen's face. Ben exits.]
JACK: What happened?
JULIET: Gunshot wound to the abdomen.
[Jack scrubs up, and notices some spinal x-rays hanging on a light screen.]
JULIET: Those aren't hers. Come on.
[They enter the operating room.]

Ben had a tumor, and they aren't caused by a bullet.

Do you by chance remember what episode that was on? Sounds like the gunshot wound to the abdomen was a reference to someone else?

 

[jeniamt]

Lurker here with a question... isn't Ben already on the island, just in another time period? He was one of the injured? Right? If he was killed in 1977 then wouldn't he just disappear in the future? That would sure freak the other survivers of the crash. And what role do they play? That hasn't really been explained. I do love this show but I wish they would stop introducing so many new characters... it makes my head hurt!

 

[TheZue]

I don't think he's dead, killing ben is almost as bad as the killing your father paradox. All of the motivation for killing him comes from his future actions.

 

[Amy]

I don't think he's dead, killing ben is almost as bad as the killing your father paradox. All of the motivation for killing him comes from his future actions.

Remember when they showed Sayid and Ilana on the plane and he asked if she was working for Benjamin Linus, and then Sayid went on to list the nasty things Ben has done, and he even mentioned genocide. If you had the chance to travel to the past and kill Hitler as a child, wouldn't you do it? Seems to me that's why Sayid killed (I don't think he's dead) Ben. He had the opportunity to get rid of Ben before Ben destroyed the Dharma Initiative and everyone else Ben killed, and he took it.

But Sayid made the mistake of running off immediately and not checking to be sure young Ben was really dead.

 

[BabyPiglet]

Do you by chance remember what episode that was on? Sounds like the gunshot wound to the abdomen was a reference to someone else?

I think it was 'I Do' -- where Kate gets married to Kevin, and then leaves him because she hates taco night.

They're referring to Colleen, who had just been shot by Sun on the boat.

Lurker here with a question... isn't Ben already on the island, just in another time period? He was one of the injured? Right? If he was killed in 1977 then wouldn't he just disappear in the future? That would sure freak the other survivers of the crash. And what role do they play? That hasn't really been explained. I do love this show but I wish they would stop introducing so many new characters... it makes my head hurt!

I do not believe in alternate timelines, but if young Ben were to die, I think he would just be erased from history. The losties would never remember an older Ben, nobody would've died from Ben, etc.

Remember when they showed Sayid and Ilana on the plane and he asked if she was working for Benjamin Linus, and then Sayid went on to list the nasty things Ben has done, and he even mentioned genocide. If you had the chance to travel to the past and kill Hitler as a child, wouldn't you do it? Seems to me that's why Sayid killed (I don't think he's dead) Ben. He had the opportunity to get rid of Ben before Ben destroyed the Dharma Initiative and everyone else Ben killed, and he took it.

But Sayid made the mistake of running off immediately and not checking to be sure young Ben was really dead.

I've been talking to a friend about this, and we've come to the conclusion that we wouldn't. If you're able to change the future by going back and killing Hitler, isn't it possible that Hitler could choose a different path as well? As in, decide to not initiate ethnic cleansing? Wouldn't it be better to go back and influence Hitler's life in a way that he chooses not to be a killer? Then no lives would be lost.

Of course, if Hitler hasn't done it, unfortunately, somebody else probably would've. I'm not sure how much it would help anyways.

And your last comment, about Sayid not checking to see if he was dead, it wouldn't work anyways. Ben can't die, since we see him in the future. So no amounts of bullets would've killed him.

 

[TheZue]

Remember when they showed Sayid and Ilana on the plane and he asked if she was working for Benjamin Linus, and then Sayid went on to list the nasty things Ben has done, and he even mentioned genocide. If you had the chance to travel to the past and kill Hitler as a child, wouldn't you do it? Seems to me that's why Sayid killed (I don't think he's dead) Ben. He had the opportunity to get rid of Ben before Ben destroyed the Dharma Initiative and everyone else Ben killed, and he took it.

But Sayid made the mistake of running off immediately and not checking to be sure young Ben was really dead.

But if Ben is dead, Sayid never would have met him when oceanic crashed and he never would have worked for him, then he never would have had any motivation to kill Ben. So the idea that you can go back to the past and kill somebody to alter the future can't work because it would alter your path to the point you wouldn't want to kill them because then they can't do what you didn't want them to.

 

[Amy]

IAnd your last comment, about Sayid not checking to see if he was dead, it wouldn't work anyways. Ben can't die, since we see him in the future. So no amounts of bullets would've killed him.

And I continue to believe that if you time-travel to the past, your actions CAN affect the future (a la "Back to the Future"). We'll just have to agree to disagree.

This whole time-travel thing just fries my brain. It's one of those "which came first, the chicken or the egg" - if Sayid has always shot young Ben, wasn't there a "first time" for 1977 when Sayid was still a kid growing up in Iraq and he wasn't 35 or so years old and came back to the island to shoot young Ben? Time from 1977 thru 2007 had to occur once before it got to be 2007 so anyone from 2007 could travel back to 1977. KWIM?

Ah well, I'm going to drive myself nuts trying to understand it. It's just a tv show, not life or death importance, so I'm just going to accept that the writers understand it better than I do and just sit back and enjoy it every week.

 

[GoodFairies]

And I continue to believe that if you time-travel to the past, your actions CAN affect the future (a la "Back to the Future"). We'll just have to agree to disagree.

This whole time-travel thing just fries my brain. It's one of those "which came first, the chicken or the egg" - if Sayid has always shot young Ben, wasn't there a "first time" for 1977 when Sayid was still a kid growing up in Iraq and he wasn't 35 or so years old and came back to the island to shoot young Ben? Time from 1977 thru 2007 had to occur once before it got to be 2007 so anyone from 2007 could travel back to 1977. KWIM?

Ah well, I'm going to drive myself nuts trying to understand it. It's just a tv show, not life or death importance, so I'm just going to accept that the writers understand it better than I do and just sit back and enjoy it every week.

I don't know Sayid's actual age or dob so I'll just make one up for the purposes of explaining it. Let's say he was born in 1970 for easy math.

In 1970 Sayid is born in Iraq and we see all the different things that happened to him in flashbacks. In 2004, at the age of 34, he steps onto Oceanic 815 and crashes on an island. In 2005 he is rescued from this island but in 2007 he crashes on the island via Ajira 316. He has travelled in time back to 1977 but he is 37 years old.

Now remember at this point it is 1977 on the island but it is also 1977 off the island. This means that Sayid, 37, is on the island in 1977 AND Sayid, 7, is in Iraq. Also, at this point, 37-Sayid remembers the events of 2004-2007 but these events have obviously not occurred for 7-Sayid.

7-Sayid will grow up in the same exact manner and in 2004 he will step onto Oceanic 815 and all the same things will happen, including the time travel.
But now 1977 37-Sayid is 71 years old.

So time is linear for the characters, since as each one is born the timeline is already in play. But it appears as a loop, or cycle, to the viewer. I hope this helps.

 

[TheZue]

This whole time-travel thing just fries my brain. It's one of those "which came first, the chicken or the egg" - if Sayid has always shot young Ben, wasn't there a "first time" for 1977 when Sayid was still a kid growing up in Iraq and he wasn't 35 or so years old and came back to the island to shoot young Ben? Time from 1977 thru 2007 had to occur once before it got to be 2007 so anyone from 2007 could travel back to 1977. KWIM?

again it depends on how you view time. If you don't just view it as a moving entity and instead as a complete picture there was no first time. Even Back to the Future is really really flawed in the idea that the future will somehow slowly change. If you change the timeline it's not like it would slowly fade out, from that moment forward it would be different and it would be sudden, so from the moment Marty screwed up his parents meeting he should have disapeared and not been there to fix it...but in that case he never would have been able to go back in time to screw it up. Back to the future is the only sci-fi (it was barely sci-fi) I've seen where it's a slow fade to change. The heroes example I could buy that they were creating tons of alternate realities but the writers have said outright that's not what's going on.

Read Slaughter House Five, in it the aliens that abduct the main human character can see any point in time they wish, even their deaths but they choose to focus on the happier points in their life and make no attempt to change their fate because they don't believe in free will. They say in it Earth's inhabitants are the only ones in the universe that think they have free will and view time as linear. A pp mentioned this book is on the producers recomended reading list so I assume it's influenced their take on time travel.

 

[ibouncetoo]

I don't know Sayid's actual age or dob so I'll just make one up for the purposes of explaining it. Let's say he was born in 1970 for easy math.

.

Close...it's listed as 1969 (Sawyer is 1968)

I liked you explanation too.

.