The mouse fires back...

[KNWVIKING]

If people are messier, (and I agree they are), then Disney will need more sweepers & cleaners. To do so means either cutting back somewhere else or hire new staff. Nobody wants anymore cutbacks, so that leaves hiring - an additional expense. Where's that money come from ? Raising ticket,plush & food prices. Yeah,there's something we all want to see happen.

 

[Mickmse2002]

I'm not blaming society. I was simply stating that norms of acceptable behavior have changed and I think Disney the business has done a good job in keeping up with that change. I was athe Magic Kingdom and observed a teenage young lady open a ice cream wrapper and just toss it on the ground. I asked her if she realized she had dropped it and that she should pick it up was told to do something that is anatomically impossible. I don't blame society for this, I don't fault Disney for this, I fault her and her parents for this.

 

[airlarry!]

But aren't people missing the point of the article? It wasn't some the Elementers out scouring the parks for misplaced toilet paper or a straw on a bench.

It was professional people inspecting the parks for maintenance, both in construction and landscaping.

The professionals admitted that the average John Deaux is not going to notice some of the things they found.

But what was disturbing was the lack of structural maintenance. For those of you just waking up to this issue, this was a problem in California, well-documented, that has finally gotten to the point where people did notice. The question brought up by this article in my mind is whether or not WDW is heading down that...dare I say it....slippery slope to California ruin. You know they did not cover every square inch of the park, so don't you worry what else is wrong?

WDSearcher had a good point...I can't very well expect Al Weiss to admit that the company spends less money on maintenance than in years past, or that the parks are less clean or less landscaped or less maintained or has less effort to hide the painting than in years past.

But I can expect him to be embarassed that professionals--yes the very same type of people who used to go to Disney and marvel at the level of attention to detail--are now saying that the emperor may not be wearing any clothes.

And I would expect that just because any of us are too busy enjoing our vacations to notice sloppy conditions, shoddy maintenance, dead plants, and the like, I would expec that most of us would be appalled to learn that there is a lack of shine on the veneer.

Anyway, the shape of the Seven Seas Lagoon is bad enough as it is to warrant credible complaints leveled at WDW management, without being called an Enemy of the State.

 

[Beachangel]

Personally, I'm amazed the parks are as clean as they considering all the slob visiting. Ever see the streets after a parade? Gee, I guess a larger work force is needed to pick up after everybody so no one thinks Disney is doing a bad job. I don't fault Disney at all. I'm grateful for the job they are doing and as Al Weiss said himself "Disney is not perfect".

 

[raidermatt]

If people are messier, (and I agree they are), then Disney will need more sweepers & cleaners. To do so means either cutting back somewhere else or hire new staff. Nobody wants anymore cutbacks, so that leaves hiring - an additional expense. Where's that money come from ? Raising ticket,plush & food prices. Yeah,there's something we all want to see happen.

Welcome to the world of business. If part of your product is having **** and span parks, then you have to deal with the costs associated with it.

Of course, this particular item does not exist in a vacuum. As society has become messier (going with the assumption), numerous other changes have occured as well, many of which have allowed Disney to become more efficient.

In the big scheme of all things Disney, the extra cost to pick up a few extra wrappers is practically nothing.

However, as we have seen with moves like the later opening of Adventureland, or earlier closing of shops and restaurants, Disney actively pursues these nickels and dimes, even if its at the expense of the end-product.

Besides, prices HAVE gone up.

Do prices drop when Disney makes an efficiency improvement, or cuts a cost? Of course not.

They charge what they can get.

Again, lowering standards is not the way to deal with this.

 

[raidermatt]

I don't blame society for this, I don't fault Disney for this, I fault her and her parents for this.

I agree. But I do fault Disney if they don't pick it up.

Gee, I guess a larger work force is needed to pick up after everybody so no one thinks Disney is doing a bad job.

Now you're getting the point. (though throwing more people at a problem is not always the answer...)

To utilize complaints heard at the web department in support of a blanket "point" on park maintenance while ignoring the positions of many others I've read here which fail to agree with that statement falls right in line with the bias emphasized in this article.

I haven't ignored anything. I simply disagree with some of it.

Funny how its bias when I do it, and "objective reporting" when you do it.

But I can expect him to be embarassed that professionals--yes the very same type of people who used to go to Disney and marvel at the level of attention to detail--are now saying that the emperor may not be wearing any clothes.

I agree, though I'm not surprised he made no such admission.

 

[KNWVIKING]

Thank you for saying that. Look at the threads concerning that increase. It was all ME bashing.

***"Do prices drop when Disney makes an efficiency improvement, or cuts a cost? Of course not."***

No, but didn't they go a year and a half before raising prices ? So possibly the efficiency improvements had the affect of delaying an increase.

 

[WDSearcher]

Originally posted by raidermatt I agree. But I do fault Disney if they don't pick it up.

The problem with that statement is that people like the inspectors with their bathroom photo don't stick around to see when and if the stall is cleaned, or how long it takes for that to happen. They only document that it's dirty. And then they submit that as some sort of overall proof that all bathrooms at WDW are dirty. Now, maybe the stall was a mess for a long time before they saw it and then it stayed a mess for a long time afterwards. Or ... maybe the toilet paper got strewn around by a kid two minutes before the inspector team walked in and it was cleaned up five minutes after they left. We'll never know, because that's the info we don't have. And that's the info that says whether or not the parks are being maintained custodially. (Obviously, the maintenance issues have totally different time parameters.)

You "fault Disney if they don't pick it up", but it's not whether or not it's picked up, it's how long it takes, right? Obviously, the stuff is getting picked up, or you'd be wading through piles and piles of trash by mid-morning. The people who followed the saga of the Dasani bottle at Splash Mountain were far more accurate news gatherers, simply because they DID keep going back to check. We had days of reports about the fact that it was there, and how many CMs were told about it. THAT was showing the complete picture, but even then, only in one specific area. You can say that a recurring sighting of a Dasani bottle on Splash Mountain is indicitive of a custodial problem in Frontierland, but you can't use that to automatically assume that any other part of property is in the same condition.

 

[crusader]

I haven't ignored anything. I simply disagree with some of it.

That's fine. You're certainly entitled to disagree.

Funny how its bias when I do it, and "objective reporting" when you do it

You have to admit, you do sound less objective when you constantly remark in the adverse whenever a positive is brought up. That does appear to be biased.

If I sound the same on the other side, you aren't reading enough.

I choose not to join in on the ME bash fest because he isn't the only one running the divisions and he certainly doesn't deserve all the credit for the remarkable work being put forth from the many many great company employees.

Now you're getting the point. (though throwing more people at a problem is not always the answer...)

I agree. So what is the solution? I heard outsourcing is a big issue particularly at WDW. If the maintenance is being outsourced I'd like to know to what extent and how that relates to responsible care and staff management within the parks.

 

[manning]

Disney has just raised their prices. Now will they do a better job??

 

[Mickmse2002]

I am confused as to how a connection can be made between a raise in ticket prices and an increase in effectiveness or productivity. Most emplyees get annual raises but that certainly doesn't translate to them working harder or more efficiently. If the customer satisfaction survey statistics released are accurate then I think it makes a strong argument for the company management of the issue. Ultimately it is the consumer who will drive any significant change in the product.

 

[RealDisneyFan]

One of the things that occurred to me as I read back over the thread is how many of us pride ourselves on our decades of visiting the Walt Disney World complex.

But remember that if we go back twenty-five years, the facility consists of the Magic Kingdom and three resorts.

Now were talking about six parks and approximately twenty resorts.

Sure, Disney should be held to the highest levels of cleanliness and upkeep.

But don't forget that they represent the only entertainment facility in the world to expand so dramatically. And the upkeep demands on the facility as a whole I'm sure have quadrupled.

 

[raidermatt]

You have to admit, you do sound less objective when you constantly remark in the adverse whenever a positive is brought up. That does appear to be biased.

I could say the same thing about your bias in the other direction. But this isn't really getting us anywhere is it?

If I sound the same on the other side, you aren't reading enough.

I could say the same thing about...

I choose not to join in on the ME bash fest because he isn't the only one running the divisions and he certainly doesn't deserve all the credit for the remarkable work being put forth from the many many great company employees.

The CEO sets direction and vision. He is accountable for the overall company results. In Eisner's case, this is even more true as he has had nearly 20 years on the job, and has complete control, including over the board.

There is some good work being put out by some good employees. There is also a lot of mediocre work being put out, and some that flat out stinks. Unfortunately, the ratio of good to bad is not nearly high enough. Hence the lackluster company performance for the last 7 years or so.

That IS the responsibility of the leader the company, whether you choose to acknowledge that or not. Your desire to minimize Eisner's role in the company's struggles is truly perplexing.

So what is the solution?

It very well maybe that more people IS the solution in this case. The point is, the standard must be maintained. No excuses. I would be highly suspect of an oursourcing solution, but regardless, without a committment from management to make it happen, it doesn't really matter.

No, but didn't they go a year and a half before raising prices ? So possibly the efficiency improvements had the affect of delaying an increase.

Not likely. Prices have consistently increased over the long term. Its most likely that the recent delay was simply because not enough people were coming.

The problem with that statement is that people like the inspectors with their bathroom photo don't stick around to see when and if the stall is cleaned, or how long it takes for that to happen.

That's the problem with all anecdotal data. Looking at the flip side, if I walk in and its clean, how do I know it wasn't dirty for 6 hours and just happened to be cleaned a few minutes ago?

Nobody is saying the place is truly dirty by general standards. Only that its not as well kept and maintained (that includes paint, wood rot, etc) as it was in the past. No single incident can prove or disprove that. If you are waiting for indisputable proof, it will never come no matter how far things slip.

We just have to consider whether all of th e folks who are saying they have noticed a slippage are on the mark or simply blowing air.

Given the number of Eisner/Management supporters who have admitted there has been some slippage but feel its in some way justifed, it seems at least questionable to ignore the criticism.

You can say that a recurring sighting of a Dasani bottle on Splash Mountain is indicitive of a custodial problem in Frontierland, but you can't use that to automatically assume that any other part of property is in the same condition.

As I said, there will be no indisputable proof of a decline.

There are only anecdotal indications.

I guess it just depends on how many examples you need to hear/see before you choose to accept that there has in fact been a decline. (note- decline does not mean NO cleaning/maintaining is done, just that its not done up to the previous standards)

I am confused as to how a connection can be made between a raise in ticket prices and an increase in effectiveness or productivity.

In this case, it is highly unlikely that there is a connection. It was mentioned that if Disney had to work harder to maintain their standards, they would have to increase prices. The productivity increases were just mentioned as a counter to that idea. The connection is weak either way.

If the customer satisfaction survey statistics released are accurate then I think it makes a strong argument for the company management of the issue.

Even if they are 100% accurate, they don't form the basis for any kind of argument.

That's because, as has been said by others, there is nothing to compare them to. Weiss said 90% said very good or excellent. Is that 80% very good, and 10% excellent? Or 10% very good and 80% excellent?

How do those numbers compare to past numbers? After all, we are trying to determine if there has been a decline, and the ONLY way to measure that is through comparison.

How exactly were the questions asked? Remember the guest surveys that supposedly said guests didn't care about Early Entry?