THE LIBERAL THREAD #3- No Debate Please

[mirmartinez]

I 'member.

I am still looking for my coffee from this morning. (free trade and organic)

 

[Goofyluver]

I have to say that this election to a non-american like me was fascinating.

I live where we rely solely on US cable TV so was exposed to all the media. I also am very interested in world politics. If I were to catagorise myself if I were a US citizen I would have to say I would be an independant, pretty central, with aspects and policies of both parties I liked and my choice come election would lie with the nominees and economically how their policies would affect me.

Throughout the campaign It was highly noticeable how badly McCain's (who I actually like and admire as a person) campaign was terribly run - it was hostile and agressive. McCain looked flustered, agitated and upset throughout the campaign and especially during the debates.

Obama on the other hand looked cool as a cucumber, calm, patient, and much more the sort of person you would want taking charge - a level head.

The choice of Palin as VP was mind boggling - so inexperienced it was comical, and the gamble to bring in such a polarising figure didnt really pay off. She may have won many fans, and I'm sure she did appeal to many, but there was no middle ground - you either loved or loathed.

Obamas pick was cleverer, it was safe, because Obama himself was seen as such a change in direction the choice of a safe VP was wise. Biden people are kinda 'meh' about, which worked.

At the end of it all I am glad Obama won - he brings hope to millions of people who have never thought it possible before, and that in itself is amazing. He brought out voters and supporters who would never normally vote as nobody they felt represented THEM.

and the sad thing - the best speech McCain made, the one that REALLY actually I think showed the man he Actually is - not the politician - was his concession speech, it was a great speech. And as his crowd jeered when he tried to be concillatory it said so much more about his supporters than than the party itself.

I went on the Conservative thread actually to ask a poster to ammend their signature which was wholly innacurate - and they did so without any hoopla - but the ensuing pack that followed was downright blinkered and tunnel visioned .... there is only their way, even if it is contradictory to the truth and facts as it blatantly was. Liberals as a group embrace other facets and factors - are open to other theories, theres the difference.

Very well said.

Although I lean very far left, I agree with much of what you have said.

And ANYONE is WELCOME to come here in peace. It's the pot-stirring that drives us crazy. Those that come in with an agenda.

I saw your posts on the con thread. I'm sorry that you were treated badly by some. I understood your point. And I agree with you. That's not to say that I don't like a good debate, and that I don't get carried away at times, but I TRY hard to be respectful.

During the campaign, the notion that some people were "clinging to their guns" was considered an insult. Is it now a badge of honor?

Apparently so.

 

[islandmum]

Maybe it helps them feel in control in a world that is otherwise not treating them kindly?

so get a blankey! anyone with an ounce of common sense knows that the more available the guns, the more rampant the gun culture.

How many children have been killed and maimed using guns found in their own homes, how many drunk partners have gone on the rampage with their guns when upset with their other halves, how many school/uni/office massacres have to occur - all with the defense of 'its my right to protect myself?'

why should school kids in the US have to go through metal detectors to get to class ? WHY do people think this has become the situation??

errrrr Guns possibly??

go to any civilised country in the world that outlaws gun ownership - dont see metal detectors at our junior schools.

Some day something will have to change.

 

[islandmum]

And ANYONE is WELCOME to come here in peace. It's the pot-stirring that drives us crazy. Those that come in with an agenda.

.

thats the biggest difference - to come in here and debate - and disagree on points is accepted and agree to disagree.

In that part of the forum it is not TOLERATED! there is no lattitude, there is no wider perspective. Therefore from me there is no respect.

as I said in one of my posts that was removed - the attitude shown by some (in respect of my request of the signature change to reflect the truthful nature of the status) is why Americans have some of the reputations around the world that they hold.

As is the reputation that we Brits have bad teeth - those few nasty English who dont look after their teeth give a false impression to the rest of the world! whereas the majority of us have rathergood teeth actually!

Only takes a couple of bad apples to look like the barrel is spoiled!

 

[Goofyluver]

so get a blankey! anyone with an ounce of common sense knows that the more available the guns, the more rampant the gun culture.

How many children have been killed and maimed using guns found in their own homes, how many drunk partners have gone on the rampage with their guns when upset with their other halves, how many school/uni/office massacres have to occur - all with the defense of 'its my right to protect myself?'

why should school kids in the US have to go through metal detectors to get to class ? WHY do people think this has become the situation??

errrrr Guns possibly??

go to any civilised country in the world that outlaws gun ownership - dont see metal detectors at our junior schools.

Some day something will have to change.

Guns are ingrained in many aspects of our culture here. They will never be illegal.

It's not MY culture, because I tend to agree with you. But, for some...guns are as common as cereal for breakfast.

I don't fault them. I just choose to live a different way.

thats the biggest difference - to come in here and debate - and disagree on points is accepted and agree to disagree.

In that part of the forum it is not TOLERATED! there is no lattitude, there is no wider perspective. Therefore from me there is no respect.

as I said in one of my posts that was removed - the attitude shown by some (in respect of my request of the signature change to reflect the truthful nature of the status) is why Americans have some of the reputations around the world that they hold.

As is the reputation that we Brits have bad teeth - those few nasty English who dont look after their teeth give a false impression to the rest of the world! whereas the majority of us have rathergood teeth actually!

Only takes a couple of bad apples to look like the barrel is spoiled!

We've been saying that this entire election!

 

[LuvDuke]

so get a blankey! anyone with an ounce of common sense knows that the more available the guns, the more rampant the gun culture.

How many children have been killed and maimed using guns found in their own homes, how many drunk partners have gone on the rampage with their guns when upset with their other halves, how many school/uni/office massacres have to occur - all with the defense of 'its my right to protect myself?'

why should school kids in the US have to go through metal detectors to get to class ? WHY do people think this has become the situation??

errrrr Guns possibly??

go to any civilised country in the world that outlaws gun ownership - dont see metal detectors at our junior schools.

Some day something will have to change.

You see you don't understand the gun culture as exhibited here. They need their weapons because:

1) The big bad wolf is right outside their door and they need "protection"

2) The big bad wolf is right outside their neighbor's door and their neighbor needs their "protection"

3) Many of them fancy themselves a real live "Jack Bauer" and, to get the bad guy, they can stare down the barrels of 2 semi-automatics AND get off the perfect shot to bring down the bad guy. Wowsers.

 

[islandmum]

You see you don't understand the gun culture as exhibited here. They need their weapons because:

1) The big bad wolf is right outside their door and they need "protection"

2) The big bad wolf is right outside their neighbor's door and their neighbor needs their "protection"

3) Many of them fancy themselves a real live "Jack Bauer" and, to get the bad guy, they can stare down the barrels of 2 semi-automatics AND get off the perfect shot to bring down the bad guy. Wowsers.

 

[rentayenta]

Hola peeps. I forgot my password so I couldn't log in from work today. But I did read along! And I am jonesing for some arugula.

 

[Goofyluver]

Evening Jenny!

How are you darlin'?

Sorry about the ADR's.

 

[rentayenta]

Evening Jenny!

How are you darlin'?

Sorry about the ADR's.

The inability to make our ADRs this close is freaking me out! It goes against my Type Aness.

How are you?

 

[chrisw127]

I actually don't think guns will ever be outlawed in this country. It's too much a part of this culture, particularly where I live. And I suspect that if you attempt to outlaw guns completely, you'll only succeed in energizing the pro-gun movement and bringing those who are on the fence about gun ownership over to the pro-gun side. And really, that only addresses people who own guns legally.

I am not against law-abiding people owning handguns for their personal protection or rifles for hunting. Having been in the military police and worked for state law enforcement (not as a sworn officer, but in another area), I know quite a few people who colllect handguns (and, okay, I dated a lot of cops in my day). Not a one of them would be caught looking like a tool and posing with their handgun or any other type of macho posturing that you occasionally see on the internet (ahem). I think that if you haven't taken a firearm safety class, if you don't know how to store them so that children can't access them, and if you can't take your weapon apart, name the parts, and put it back together blindfolded (okay, I'm kidding about that one), then you don't need to own a weapon. Trust me, MOST gun owners can't do that. Most gun owners are probably more likely to shoot themselves than they are an intruder.

The answer, I think, is to make gun ownership more safe and to ensure that fewer people actually buy them. The ability to own a gun should be contingent on being about to pass a simple safety test not unlike that which we impose on being able to drive a car. The army wouldn't let me carry my 9mm until I could prove that I could use it properly; why don't we have a similar system in place for civilians? Think that's too much of a burden? Well then, no guns for you. It's that simple.

Oh, I'd just like to add that I don't keep a handgun in my house. I don't think they're safe with kids in the house. AT ALL.

 

[chrisw127]

As is the reputation that we Brits have bad teeth - those few nasty English who dont look after their teeth give a false impression to the rest of the world! whereas the majority of us have rathergood teeth actually!

!

Hmmm. Ralph Fiennes. Oh, I'm sorry, did you say something? I heard Brits and I just wandered off . . . . . .

 

[Oreo Cookie]

thats the biggest difference - to come in here and debate - and disagree on points is accepted and agree to disagree.

In that part of the forum it is not TOLERATED! there is no lattitude, there is no wider perspective. Therefore from me there is no respect.

as I said in one of my posts that was removed - the attitude shown by some (in respect of my request of the signature change to reflect the truthful nature of the status) is why Americans have some of the reputations around the world that they hold.

As is the reputation that we Brits have bad teeth - those few nasty English who dont look after their teeth give a false impression to the rest of the world! whereas the majority of us have rathergood teeth actually!

Only takes a couple of bad apples to look like the barrel is spoiled!

You are always welcomed here. We welcome debate and other perspectives.

some on the other side, can only see things one way, and you are either with them or against them. It's really quite sad, and it shows such a narrow-mindedness.

Welcome aboard!

 

[islandmum]

I actually don't think guns will ever be outlawed in this country. It's too much a part of this culture, particularly where I live. And I suspect that if you attempt to outlaw guns completely, you'll only succeed in energizing the pro-gun movement and bringing those who are on the fence about gun ownership over to the pro-gun side. And really, that only addresses people who own guns legally.

I am not against law-abiding people owning handguns for their personal protection or rifles for hunting. Having been in the military police and worked for state law enforcement (not as a sworn officer, but in another area), I know quite a few people who colllect handguns (and, okay, I dated a lot of cops in my day. Not a one of them would be caught looking like a tool and posing with their handgun or any other type of macho posturing that you occasionally see on the internet (ahem). I think that if you haven't taken a firearm safety class, if you don't know how to store them so that children can't access them, and if you can't take your weapon apart, name the parts, and put it back together blindfolded (okay, I'm kidding about that one), then you don't need to own a weapon. Trust me, MOST gun owners can't do that. Most gun owners are probably more likely to shoot themselves than they are an intruder.

The answer, I think, is to make gun ownership more safe and to ensure that fewer people actually buy them. The ability to own a gun should be contingent on being about to pass a simple safety test not unlike that which we impose on being able to drive a car. The army wouldn't let me carry my 9mm until I could prove that I could use it properly; why don't we have a similar system in place for civilians? Think that's too much of a burden? Well then, no guns for you. It's that simple.

Oh, I'd just like to add that I don't keep a handgun in my house. I don't think they're safe with kids in the house. AT ALL.

I am very anti-guns but I totally agree with you that the US is too far down the line to ban guns - it just wouldnt work.

however as you say its soooo easy to buy the things these days and just walk around with one in your purse (in some states). you lose your handbag, its got a gun in it, you leave it at a park for example, kids find it and start playing with a loaded pistol ..... these things should never happen.

Needs to be a double barrel (excuse the pun!) approach of making it VERY difficult to buy one, there must be a valid reason and secure vetting procedures. You should also be limited to one gun only (unless a hunter etc..).

Then guns should be limited to where they are kept subject to what your use is - general members of the public should simply not be allowed to remove them from their own premises - and must prove upon purchase that they have a secure gun locker to keep it in.

The sad fact is its harder to apply for a bank account than it is to buy guns .... which is terrifying!

 

[Oreo Cookie]

You see you don't understand the gun culture as exhibited here. They need their weapons because:

1) The big bad wolf is right outside their door and they need "protection"

2) The big bad wolf is right outside their neighbor's door and their neighbor needs their "protection"

3) Many of them fancy themselves a real live "Jack Bauer" and, to get the bad guy, they can stare down the barrels of 2 semi-automatics AND get off the perfect shot to bring down the bad guy. Wowsers.

It's funny, but true at the same time.

I'm not against guns, but I do think there should be background checks, waiting periods, and safety courses. I do think certain guns should be outlawed. Also, a Gun Shop owner should be questioning a potential buyer who is buying multiple weapons, or frequently purchases.

The way many illegal guns get on the street is through legal purchases that are called "straw purchases". The link below describes the straw purchases. It's 26 pages, but it's quite informative.

http://www.mayorsagainstillegalguns.org/downloads/pdf/inside-straw-purchases.pdf

 

[Oreo Cookie]

So, who do you guys think Governor Paterson should choose?

 

[chrisw127]

So, who do you guys think Governor Paterson should choose?

How about Bill Clinton? I miss Bill.

 

[crazyforgoofy]

So, who do you guys think Governor Paterson should choose?

Well it won't be Rudy.

 

[Slapstick]

Bill Clinton..the late night comics will be employed for years... or Caroline Kennedy.

 

[Slapstick]

How many days Libs????