The Liberal Thread #2 - No Debate Please

[LuvDuke]

I'm probably being naive but I have not given up hope. It's the one thing that helps me make sense of why Clinton is staying in the race against mounting odds.

I don't think Hillary Clinton is angling for 2nd banana. Why would Obama want to keep her around to remind people of a bitter campaign. He has nothing to gain. He'd be better off with Richardson.

I believe Hillary is still in a race she cannot win because she cannot give up the dream. To give up the dream means to give up everything.

I think she looks terrible. The lines in her face are so deep. Her voice is forced. There is no joy in her campaigning. There is no serenity about her. I think she's in a dangerous place. I think she knows it will not be, but she cannot comes to terms with it.

 

[MassJester]

I don't think Hillary Clinton is angling for 2nd banana. Why would Obama want to keep her around to remind people of a bitter campaign. He has nothing to gain. He'd be better off with Richardson.

I've been a fan of an Obama/Clinton ticket for a while now, but the way things are going, I think he will have to go in another direction.

 

[JARNJ3]

I'm probably being naive but I have not given up hope. It's the one thing that helps me make sense of why Clinton is staying in the race against mounting odds.

Sneaking in here to agree.......

I still believe a "dream" ticket is possible. I prefer to call it a unified ticket. The politicians are pragmatic - and do not look at the ticket the way those of us invested in our candidate do. The don't have to be BFF - they may need each other in order to win. And I believe they complement each other.....

All these polls? They are being gone over with fine tooth combs - if the writing is on the wall that the only way to win the White House is by a combined ticket - that is what they will do.

Its the die-hard supporters who seem to be against a unified ticket.....

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-03-24-Dreamteam_N.htm

 

[LuvDuke]

Sneaking in here to agree.......

I still believe a "dream" ticket is possible. I prefer to call it a unified ticket. The politicians are pragmatic - and do not look at the ticket the way those of us invested in our candidate do. The don't have to be BFF - they may need each other in order to win. And I believe they complement each other.....

All these polls? They are being gone over with fine tooth combs - if the writing is on the wall that the only way to win the White House is by a combined ticket - that is what they will do.

Its the die-hard supporters who seem to be against a unified ticket.....

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-03-24-Dreamteam_N.htm

The reason why I'm against a unified ticket with Hillary as VP is because I don't think it's in the country's best interest to have her there. She would always be a polarizing figure and one who could not be engaged in presidential affairs. She has torn down the presidential candidate (Obama) too many times to be trusted.

This is a dangerous world and events happen very quickly. A president needs a VP they can count on. Hillary has proven not to be that person.

The "Unified Ticket" will not happen. Hillary brings nothing to the table in the general election. Whether as a presidential candidate or a vp candidate. Her negatives are so high, she is unelectable.

 

[Laura]

All these polls? They are being gone over with fine tooth combs - if the writing is on the wall that the only way to win the White House is by a combined ticket - that is what they will do.

I think so, too.

 

[robinb]

I don't think Hillary Clinton is angling for 2nd banana.

Oh, I do. I think the comments made by President Clinton a few weeks ago support that. Sure, she would prefer to be the top name, but I also think she would be OK with the 2nd slot too.

Why would Obama want to keep her around to remind people of a bitter campaign. He has nothing to gain. He'd be better off with Richardson.

Because Clinton would UNIFY the party. As much as you don't like her almost HALF of the Democrats have voted for her so far. She isn't just an annoying gnat like Nader who only has fringe support. A unified party would bring the supporters of BOTH candidates together to vote as one. In fact ... I have a new theory. Clinton is not tearing apart the party by staying in. Obama is tearing apart the party by not asking her to be VP.

 

[Laura]

Because Clinton would UNIFY the party. As much as you don't like her almost HALF of the Democrats have voted for her so far. She isn't just an annoying gnat like Nader who only has fringe support. A unified party would bring the supporters of BOTH candidates together to vote as one. In fact ... I have a new theory. Clinton is not tearing apart the party by staying in. Obama is tearing apart the party by not asking her to be VP.

Though I would happily vote for a combined ticket, I disagree with your theory that Hillary would unify the party. I posted this on the Obama thread:

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/03/26/821438.aspx

Hillary Clinton is sporting the lowest personal ratings of the campaign. Moreover, her 37 percent positive rating is the lowest the NBC/WSJ poll has recorded since March 2001, two months after she was elected to the U.S. Senate from New York.
...
Our pollsters found that for the second poll in a row, more than 20 percent of Clinton and Obama supporters say they would support McCain when he's matched up against the other Democrat. There is clearly some hardening of feelings among some of the most core supporters of both Democrats, though it may be Obama voters, who are more bitter in the long run.

Why? Because among Obama voters, Clinton has a net-negative personal rating (35-43) while Clinton voters have a net-positive view of Obama (50-29). Taken together, this appears to be evidence that Obama, intially, should have the easier time uniting the party than Clinton.

29% of Clinton voters don't like Obama--that isn't enough to ask her to be VP, IMO. Not at this point, anyway. It could change.

 

[LuvDuke]

Oh, I do. I think the comments made by President Clinton a few weeks ago support that. Sure, she would prefer to be the top name, but I also think she would be OK with the 2nd slot too.
Because Clinton would UNIFY the party. As much as you don't like her almost HALF of the Democrats have voted for her so far. She isn't just an annoying gnat like Nader who only has fringe support. A unified party would bring the supporters of BOTH candidates together to vote as one. In fact ... I have a new theory. Clinton is not tearing apart the party by staying in. Obama is tearing apart the party by not asking her to be VP.

There will not be an Obama/Clinton ticket for 2 reasons:

1) Hillary hasn't dreamed of being VP for the last umpteeth years

2) No, it will not unify the party. Hillary is a polarizing figure whether she sits in the captain's chair or the 1st officers chair.

Most intelligent people learn to suck up and shut their mouths when they're looking to be someone's #2. The way not to get the job is by questioning #1's credentials, experience, comparing yourself favorably to the competition's #1 to the detriment of your own #1, etc.

That's how it's done in the real world. At this point, Hillary Clinton has become a pariah in Democratic circles. The faster they can get her off the stage, the happier the party will be.

She has poisoned the well. And the party will pay her in kind.

Clinton is not tearing apart the party by staying in. Obama is tearing apart the party by not asking her to be VP

Is this a joke?

 

[robinb]

29% of Clinton voters don't like Obama--that isn't enough to ask her to be VP, IMO. Not at this point, anyway. It could change.

First of all, I don't think those people were asked if they would vote for Obama with Clinton on the ticket. Secondly, I am starting to think that the theory that Republicans crossing over to vote for Democrats to mess things up is starting to have legs. They would certainly answer a poll like that to skew things. Thirdly, even if they were all "Democrats" (although I don't think they get to call themselves that it they vote for McCain) and Obama wins the nomination they would be far more likely to return to the fold (unify) with Clinton on the ticket. So ... I guess I don't think much of that poll .

 

[robinb]

Is this a joke?

As much as your continued theory that Hillary has evil Machiavellian tendencies is a joke.

 

[LuvDuke]

Honestly, I think Hillary has poisoned the well whether she is the presidential candidate or the vp candidate.

 

[robinb]

Honestly, I think Hillary has poisoned the well whether she is the presidential candidate or the vp candidate.

Yes, I know. I heard you when you said that the first few dozen times. Obviously, I disagree.

 

[Laugh O. Grams]

My thoughts about Hillary as veep is that she'd probably jump at the chance if asked. If she can't get the top job, in her mind, she probably fashions herself as playing Darth Cheney to Obama's George Bush, a role she'd certainly relish. I just don't see him asking her...

 

[robinb]

My thoughts about Hillary as veep is that she'd probably jump at the chance if asked. If she can't get the top job, in her mind, she probably fashions herself as playing Darth Cheney to Obama's George Bush, a role she'd certainly relish. I just don't see him asking her...

Now there you go, getting nasty again. Why not take a page out of your own candidate's book and try not to insult Clinton? I don't insult Obama. I don't call him names. The difference between Obama/Clinton and Bush/Cheney is that with the Obama presidency we would have TWO intelligent people running the county and not just one.

 

[LuvDuke]

As much as your continued theory that Hillary has evil Machiavellian tendencies is a joke.

What evil Machiavellian tendencies? She's an ambitious woman who won't face the fact that her dream is over.

If she was truly Machiavellian, she wouldn't be in the mess she's in now.

If she was truly Machiavellian, she would've planned beyond Super-Tuesday which was they day she thought she would take it all.

If she was truly Machiavellian, Hillary would be trying to diffuse her high negatives instead of reinforcing them every chance she gets. She came in with high negatives. She should've figured out a way to bring them down.

Hillary is not Machiavellian or she wouldn't be running the campaign she is now.

It would be nice if Hillary was more Machiavellian. It might show she actually had an intelligent plan beyond throw enough crap in air and hope some of it sticks to your opponent.

And stop putting words in my mouth when it comes to what I think about Hillary. I put my words out front and center and they aren't that hard to understand.

 

[Laugh O. Grams]

Now there you go, getting nasty again. Why not take a page out of your own candidate's book and try not to insult Clinton? I don't insult Obama. I don't call him names. The difference between Obama/Clinton and Bush/Cheney is that with the Obama presidency we would have TWO intelligent people running the county and not just one.

I thought I was insulting Cheney?

 

[Chloe'sMom]

I'm probably being naive but I have not given up hope. It's the one thing that helps me make sense of why Clinton is staying in the race against mounting odds.

I'm not sure the dream ticket will happen - I think maybe 3 months ago it was a strong possibility, but not now. I think if Clinton wins the nomination it will happen - she'll offer the VP to Obama. I'm not so sure he would accept it though. If he wins the nomination I don't see him asking Clinton and here's my opinion as to why:

1) Clinton is a strong woman, and a strong candidate - you don't want a VP who may question your judgement and authority.

2) In many ways the 2 are equals - I've always gotten the impression the VP candidates are 2nd fiddle to the stronger of the two personalities. However we got the opposite with the last presidency

In other words I dont' think these two would be able to dance together - someone has to lead while the other follows.

3) If I was Obama and Clinton my VP I would constantly feel that I needed to look over my shoulder. She would be vying for that top job. Of course I still think LBJ had something to do with the Kennedy assasination

~Amanda

 

[Charade]

Wow!

 

[Chloe'sMom]

Wow!

Ya know - you could at least bring us some cokes while you eat your popcorn.

~Amanda

 

[Charade]

Ya know - you could at least bring us some cokes while you eat your popcorn.

~Amanda