The Liberal Thread #2 - No Debate Please

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Very true - you do. You are the lone voice of the right-wingers on that topic. Do you ever wonder why?:confused3

~Amanda

There's so very much wrong with big government and out of control spending that's it's hard to have enough time and energy for all the outrage? :confused3

Just a guess. ;)
 
Hmmmm....This sounds vaguely familiar. :teeth:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nathaniel-bach/john-mccains-strategy-to_b_87133.html

Huffington Post said:
John McCain's Strategy to Influence the Democratic Race

Let's say you're John McCain's chief advisor, and your candidate has made an improbable comeback to all but sew up the Republican presidential nomination. While reflecting on your good fortune (or dumb luck of facing a hapless slate of Republican contenders), you may also ask yourself, "Now that we've got this baby in the bag, what's next?" Attacking your only remaining rival, Mike Huckabee, would do little more than legitimize his stubbornly clinging campaign. Of course, there's the need to shore up support among the conservative wing of the Republican Party and prove your bona fides, but that's easily enough done with a quick hypocritical vote against an anti-torture bill. The other thing you might do is wonder whom your eventual candidate will be, whom you want it to be, and most importantly, what you can do in the coming weeks to keep the Democratic race in a state of unsettled disarray and help ensure that the weaker candidate gets the nod.

So, given a chance to affect the Democratic race in his favor, what's McCain's best bet? All the current indicators suggest that McCain is already working from a position of strength against Hillary Clinton, whereas he lags nationally and in key state races against Barack Obama. Senator Clinton's polling disadvantage--whether due to her high negatives or Obama's ability to attract the independents who would otherwise swing for McCain--may be undeserved, given the policy similarities between her and Obama, but it should give all Democrats cause for concern if she is the nominee. It seems that McCain has figured this out, and he's decided to do whatever possible to tilt the remaining Democratic contests in Senator Clinton's favor and to thwart Senator Obama, McCain's greater general-election threat.

As I've mentioned before, Obama continues to top McCain in poll after poll, whereas Clinton faces serious and troubling polling deficits against McCain. As of February 17th, the Rasmussen national Presidential Tracking Report shows Obama leading McCain 46%-44%, while Clinton trails McCain 42%-49%. And, interestingly, in Pennsylvania (a supposed Clinton firewall against Obama), she trails McCain 42%-44%, while Obama leads McCain 49%-39%. In Oregon, the other state with a February 17th head-to-head poll, Obama beats McCain 49%-40%, whereas Clinton trails McCain, 42%-45%. Now, I want universal health coverage, incentives for green industry, and a common-sense economic policies as much as the next guy, but if we don't win in November, the marginal differences between our candidates are going to seem a lot more irrelevant.

Since sweeping last Tuesday's Potomac Primaries, McCain has trained his focus on Obama, attacking him in his victory speech and continuing on in the days following. Almost entirely ignoring Clinton, McCain has gone after Obama on earmarks, inexperience, style, and public financing. In fact, the McCain and Clinton campaigns have been adopting each other's anti-Obama talking points. McCain has taken up the meme that Obama is all style, no substance, and Clinton has happily joined McCain's attack on Obama for hedging on whether he'd accept public financing in the general election, notwithstanding that such an argument is entirely premature since Obama is not yet the nominee. But if you're McCain, and you anticipate that Obama will be your opponent, why not save your best material until Obama has the nomination locked up? Simple: McCain wants to see Obama defeated in the Democratic primary and will attack him in ways that resonate most with Democrats.

The public financing angle is particularly interesting. Although Obama only talked of accepting public financing if he is the nominee, McCain has raised the issue long before the nominee has been chosen. The likely reason: Democratic voters have long bemoaned the undue influence of money in politics, and Obama's initial indications that he'd accept public financing have now run up against the fact that he has been so unexpectedly successful in translating grassroots support into dollars--harnessing the power of the internet and aggregating small donors to create a formidable war chest. Obama's good fortune that his message has attracted voters' money has put him in an unanticipated quandary: should he take the McCain-advocated moral high ground and commit to public financing (leveling the playing field with a less moneyed GOP opponent) or should he embrace the groundswell of financial support that his constituents have provided him? Clinton, on the other hand, never the underdog, always anticipated have such a money advantage that even raising the possibility of accepting public financing would have been unthinkable (although her earlier endorser, the New York Times, has recently called for her to do so).

Of course, regardless of which position Obama would eventually adopt, he would still be on the cleaner side of campaign finance than Clinton: he does not accept money from federal lobbyists, whereas Senator Clinton has maintained her position that she accepts lobbyist money but states that "I'm [not] going to be influenced by a lobbyist or a particular interest group." Even so, she has taken in the most lobbyist money of any candidate, Republican or Democrat. Given these facts, progressives should be more sympathetic to Obama's stance on campaign money--even John Edwards gives Obama the moral advantage--yet McCain's attacks are made with the goal of undermining Obama's campaign finance credibility with progressives. The intended audience of McCain's attacks isn't Republicans or Independents, it's Democrats. McCain is seeing his dream match-up against Clinton slipping away, and is taking action to help resurrect her campaign. Democratic voters should do well to recognize this strategic sleight of hand for what it is, an effort to undermine Senator Obama in order to benefit John McCain's preferred opponent, Senator Clinton.
 

They were trying to keep it away from the press. The last time they set the meeting up, they had helicopters flying over Edwards' house. :teeth:

I thought they moved it because the copters were messing up Edwards' hair....
 
I didn't understand all the fuss about Obama's home either. The man wrote two best selling books which allowed him to pay off the student loans him and his wife had. They were also able to buy a decent home with these profits. I live in the greater Chicagoland area and his house isn't all that, trust me. On Chicago's North Shore they have homes that have garages the size of Obama house. His plain looking home is nothing special when compared to the huge homes and McMansions that populate some of Chicago's suburbs. Some of those suburbs and the "Gold Coast" area of Chicago have home prices and property tax bills that would make your jaw drop. I was at the auto show this weekend and drove down Lake Shore drive and saw new condos being built with a "2.5 million" plus price tags, up for sale. For a 3 BR condo over looking the lake! So I just didn't understand why they were complaining about his fairly modest house the other day. He worked for it and earned it. He didn't inherit it or get it by some nefarious scheme.:confused3

It's something they all should not only respect, but aspire to do themselves. They're really barking about a non issue and they need to drive around in my neck of the woods to see how silly it is. Since I'm familiar with the area having lived here my whole life, I wanted to give my perspective on it


It had something to do with Michelle Obama making a statement on a TV interview about getting the rich out of the white house when Obama and her are worth around 1.5 million.....or considered rich them selves, and that Obama understands all about the underpaid Working man...
 
[quote="Got Disney";23286324]It had something to do with Michelle Obama making a statement on a TV interview about getting the rich out of the white house when Obama and her are worth around 1.5 million.....or considered rich them selves, and that Obama understands all about the underpaid Working man...[/quote]

I also heard an interview with Michelle Obama where she said that she was concerned that if he doesn't win this year, they will be too far removed from their days of paying off student loans and struggling. She said that now they both still remember what it was like to juggle the budget around, but in another 4/8 years, they might have lost their connection to it.
 
Seems Obama has made up quite a bit of ground against Clinton as the polls are now showing a statistical dead heat in TX:

A new CNN/Opinion Research Corp. poll suggests the battle for the Democratic presidential nomination between Sens. Hillary Clinton of New York and Barack Obama of Illinois is a statistical dead heat in Texas, which holds primaries March 4.

In the survey, out Monday, 50 percent of likely Democratic primary voters support Clinton as their choice for the party's nominee, with 48 percent backing Obama.

But taking into account the poll's sampling error of plus or minus 4½ percentage points for Democratic respondents, the race is a virtual tie.

Two recent polls by other organizations also show the race statistically even. Map: National and state polling

"One reason the race appears to be tight is that Texas Democrats are having a hard time choosing between two attractive options," says CNN polling director Keating Holland.

"Likely Democratic primary voters would be equally happy if either candidate won the nomination, and they don't see a lot of difference between them on several top issues.



source: http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/02/18/poll.texas/index.html
 
Seems Obama has made up quite a bit of ground against Clinton as the polls are now showing a statistical dead heat in TX:

A new CNN/Opinion Research Corp. poll suggests the battle for the Democratic presidential nomination between Sens. Hillary Clinton of New York and Barack Obama of Illinois is a statistical dead heat in Texas, which holds primaries March 4.

In the survey, out Monday, 50 percent of likely Democratic primary voters support Clinton as their choice for the party's nominee, with 48 percent backing Obama.

But taking into account the poll's sampling error of plus or minus 4½ percentage points for Democratic respondents, the race is a virtual tie.

Two recent polls by other organizations also show the race statistically even. Map: National and state polling

"One reason the race appears to be tight is that Texas Democrats are having a hard time choosing between two attractive options," says CNN polling director Keating Holland.

"Likely Democratic primary voters would be equally happy if either candidate won the nomination, and they don't see a lot of difference between them on several top issues.


source: http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/02/18/poll.texas/index.html

Gee, that's not what the Conservatives are saying. They seem to think that if Obama doesn't win the nomination, his backers will either not vote at all or will come over to McCain.
 
Gee, that's not what the Conservatives are saying. They seem to think that if Obama doesn't win the nomination, his backers will either not vote at all or will come over to McCain.

The conservatives think they can bring "Saint Ronnie" back from the dead too.
 
Seems Obama has made up quite a bit of ground against Clinton as the polls are now showing a statistical dead heat in TX:

A new CNN/Opinion Research Corp. poll suggests the battle for the Democratic presidential nomination between Sens. Hillary Clinton of New York and Barack Obama of Illinois is a statistical dead heat in Texas, which holds primaries March 4.

In the survey, out Monday, 50 percent of likely Democratic primary voters support Clinton as their choice for the party's nominee, with 48 percent backing Obama.

But taking into account the poll's sampling error of plus or minus 4½ percentage points for Democratic respondents, the race is a virtual tie.

Two recent polls by other organizations also show the race statistically even. Map: National and state polling

"One reason the race appears to be tight is that Texas Democrats are having a hard time choosing between two attractive options," says CNN polling director Keating Holland.

"Likely Democratic primary voters would be equally happy if either candidate won the nomination, and they don't see a lot of difference between them on several top issues.


source: http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/02/18/poll.texas/index.html

Even I who is a solid Hillary supporter had a moment the other day thinking that if I had to vote Tuesday which way would I go and the thought came to me to vote for Obama not because I like him better but because of all this chatter that if Hillary gets in she has a less of a chance against McCain

And there is no way I want that...so I went back on line and did more research and came back to Hillary...

I have no doubt that if I had this thought than others are also and so they cast there vote for who is said to have a better chance against McCain.

I don't think he has picked up more momentum I just think it is fear of the press statements that are swaying them in a different direction...
 
[QUOTE="Got Disney";23286787]Even I who is a solid Hillary supporter had a moment the other day thinking that if I had to vote Tuesday which way would I go and the thought came to me to vote for Obama not because I like him better but because of all this chatter that if Hillary gets in she has a less of a chance against McCain

And there is no way I want that...so I went back on line and did more research and came back to Hillary...

I have no doubt that if I had this thought than others are also and so they cast there vote for who is said to have a better chance against McCain.

I don't think he has picked up more momentum I just think it is fear of the press statements that are swaying them in a different direction...[/QUOTE]

I'm curious...just what "research" led you back to Hillary? Virtually every poll I've seen on a national and key state level shows Obama leading McCain while McCain beats Hillary head-to-head. Every study I've seen says that a Hillary versus McCain general election drives the moderates to him, while he and Obama would split them if the contest was between them.

What was it your research found that nobody else has seen?
 
Gee, that's not what the Conservatives are saying. They seem to think that if Obama doesn't win the nomination, his backers will either not vote at all or will come over to McCain.

They can pontificate all they want. I'm certainly not going to lose a second of sleep over all the completely contrived ways that the right thinks that McCain is going to somehow pull this election out of his ***...
 
I'm curious...just what "research" led you back to Hillary? Virtually every poll I've seen on a national and key state level shows Obama leading McCain while McCain beats Hillary head-to-head. Every study I've seen says that a Hillary versus McCain general election drives the moderates to him, while he and Obama would split them if the contest was between them.

What was it your research found that nobody else has seen?

that is what I said that others think that Obama has a better chance against McCain and that is why I was having second thought ...what brought me back is that it is not showing that there is much Difference at this point between Hillary and McCain


Also that I cant believe that all the Obama voters will vote against Hillary in and election. Many will just switch to her if she gets the nod. When you look at the numbers of Dems compared to the number of Rep that have come out to vote the Rep don't even come close.

Even if just half of the Obama voters were to come and vote for Hillary and all Hillary voters voted for Hillary the Rep still would have no chance against the Dem candidate.
 
what are everyones' thoughts about the Obama plagorizing thing? :scared: It seems to be gaining momentum.

Even Elizabeth Edwards was commenting on it. I was reading some of her comments about the plagorizing and Obama's health care ideas on a Democratic website. She does not seem to care for him, so I'm skeptical about her husband endorsing Obama right now.

Frankly, I'm getting nervous.
 
Looks like Barry's working to differentiate himself from Hillary on trade:

"It's also time to look to the future and figure out how to make trade work for American workers. I won't stand here and tell you that we can--or should--stop free trade. We can't stop every job from going overseas. But I also won't stand here and accept an America where we do nothing to help American workers who have lost jobs and opportunities because of these trade agreements. And that's a position of mine that doesn't change based on who I'm talking to or the election I'm running in," Obama said, taking a swipe at Clinton. "You know, in the years after her husband signed NAFTA, Senator Clinton would go around talking about how great it was and how many benefits it would bring. Now that she's running for President, she says we need a time-out on trade. No one knows when this time-out will end. Maybe after the election."

Then Obama declared, "(When) I am president, I will not sign another trade agreement unless it has protections for our environment and protections for American workers. And I'll pass the Patriot Employer Act that I've been fighting for ever since I ran for the Senate--we will end the tax breaks for companies who ship our jobs overseas, and we will give those breaks to companies who create good jobs with decent wages right here in America."


http://www.thenation.com/blogs/thebeat?pid=284664

IMO, this has got to resonate with voters of all political persuasions...
 
what are everyones' thoughts about the Obama plagorizing thing? :scared: It seems to be gaining momentum.

Even Elizabeth Edwards was commenting on it. I was reading some of her comments about the plagorizing and Obama's health care ideas on a Democratic website. She does not seem to care for him, so I'm skeptical about her husband endorsing Obama right now.

Frankly, I'm getting nervous.

Really? Nervous? Obama's already gone on record as saying that he and Patrick always bounce ideas and thoughts off of each other. He has also shown that Clinton has lifted a couple of his own words herself. IMO, the whole thing childish at best. My feeling is, after tomorrow's primary results, noone's going to care. As far as Elizabeth Edwards, I read that a number of her friends said that she was leaning towards Obama. She hasn't hinted at liking either candidate publicly as of yet.
 
what are everyones' thoughts about the Obama plagorizing thing? :scared: It seems to be gaining momentum.

Even Elizabeth Edwards was commenting on it. I was reading some of her comments about the plagorizing and Obama's health care ideas on a Democratic website. She does not seem to care for him, so I'm skeptical about her husband endorsing Obama right now.

Frankly, I'm getting nervous.

Another tempest in a teapot and another example of Hillary Clinton torpedoeing her own campaign.
 
Really? Nervous? Obama's already gone on record as saying that he and Patrick always bounce ideas and thoughts off of each other. He has also shown that Clinton has lifted a couple of his own words herself. IMO, the whole thing childish at best. My feeling is, after tomorrow's primary results, noone's going to care.

Perhaps--I hope you're right.

Never the less, it was careless on some speech writer's part--perhaps one that had previously worked for Gov. Patrick. I expect his campaign management to be on watch for such blunders and not allow them going forward.
 
Our friends on the other side of that aisle have found a new spokeswoman: Dumb bunny, lone pony or something like that.

I won't link to it because dumb bunny, lone pony or something like that uses language not suitable for a family BB. You can't asterisk out the stuff she's saying. You can, however, use the link provided by our friends on the other side of the aisle.

Worth checking out to see what the other side believes is great oratory and rallies folks to their cause. To me, dumb bunny, lone pony or something like that looks another Planet Bush resident who's gotten into the mushrooms.

In the interest of not being called plagiarist, I heisted that from George Carlin. :lmao:
 
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