The Intersection of FIRE and Disney

[marsh0013]

I’m not planning to have an argument on that thread about this because this soul is obvious VERY lost. BUT I will drop this follow up comment here because it’s too good to miss:
https://www.disboards.com/threads/paid-fp-options-coming-soon-to-wdw.3739005/page-65#post-60418985

Now the stock market is the same as betting in horse racing...WOW

Omg I'm following that thread too and when I saw the first comment and then the follow ups, I couldn't believe it was real! And I had a feeling a bunch of people here would be thinking similar thoughts (to be clear, similar to my thoughts!). Yikes!

 

[trenty]

“Must be nice to be a millionaire”...

This phrase came up recently in conversation with a coworker. It was a moment of them expressing an “innocent” level of jealousy over somebody’s circumstances but I thought it might spark interesting discussion here.

I know we are a diverse group BUT in general, the FIRE movement is made up of 25-45 year olds hoping to attain financial independence prior to their 60s. What I find interesting is this concept of a Millionaire being “very rich” hasn’t changed in our heads in the last 30 or so years. (I use “our” as the collective our, not us specifically). When I was young, the concept of $1million was A LOT of money. In truth, for somebody born in the 80s, $1million today is roughly half of what it was when we were young.

Would it be nice to be a millionaire? Yes! Would that represent life changing wealth that would allow me to cease all work and buy anything I want? No way! It’s just interesting to see how the common person still views a “millionaire” as this unreachable, unrealistical goal whereas it’s on my list by age 40. I also recognize that the morning I wake up and see a 7 figure net worth, it won’t change me at all and also isn’t enough to quit working.

I recently read Total Money Makeover and Everyday Millionaire. While I don't agree with everything Ramsey preaches, I do believe that by being intentional with budgeting, investing wisely, living within one's means, and staying out of debt, ANYONE can amass a net worth of 1 million dollars over time. And I agree with your post about how having $1million would not change the way I live, except that my giving would increase as my net worth increases.

 

[Mome Rath]

Being a Millionaire shouldn't be a dream, it should be a goal... in fact, being a multi-millionaire in today's world should be a goal, not out of greed but out of possible necessity. The other problem I have with any "must be nice" phrase is it implies the person hasn't worked for whatever they have, or what they do. "Must be nice to be going to Disney again." Yes, thanks it is nice, after all the time, effort, saving, planning, etc... that went into it. Then bringing up the fact that you never eat out, and cook all 3 meals a day at home from scratch, amongst various things in order to have money when you need/want it gets scoffed at.

As to the other topic going on; the stock market as gambling. If you are doing it wrong it is gambling, if you are doing it right it's an investment. It's people that don't understand buy and hold (and hold and hold and hold) that shouldn't get into the market until they do more learning.

 

[BridgetBordeaux]

"Must be nice to be going to Disney again." Yes, thanks it is nice, after all the time, effort, saving, planning, etc... that went into it. Then bringing up the fact that you never eat out, and cook all 3 meals a day at home from scratch, amongst various things in order to have money when you need/want it gets scoffed at.

As to the other topic going on; the stock market as gambling. If you are doing it wrong it is gambling, if you are doing it right it's an investment. It's people that don't understand buy and hold (and hold and hold and hold) that shouldn't get into the market until they do more learning.

Great points. (that is a stronger endorsement than a like!)

 

[elaine amj]

I really am not intending to complain - we are super lucky to be looking at all of this with choices as opposed to necessities. More curious about how folks measure the time/money part of FIRE, when there are so many competing priorities.

It's a balance. So I measured everything against my FIRE goals. We love travel so finally I ended up budgeting $6000 a year. A big chunk of my annual budget. But I also travel hack so we get a LOT of travel out of that money.

That said, it is very interesting to stretch yourself out of your comfort zone . I thought we absolutely needed basic cable at least. My kids were super reluctant to let it go. Than we made the leap and they adjusted in a week or so. Now a few years later, they are hooked on netflix (which we get free from a friend) and rarely turn on the tv anymore sigh.

I was also reluctant to bike to work. Even though I was a fairly serious recreational cyclist, it just sounded so complicated with clothes and makeup. So I hemmed and hawed for years. Then a friend of mine started posting about his bike commute and finally I got guilted into giving it a shot. Within a week it was a simple thing and I happily commuted through rain, wind, and snow for 2 years (I did have my car when I really needed it though). I ended up loving it.

So yes, your life is here and now. Don't be a miser and do open up your wallet when it's things you value .But challenge yourself to consider other ways to achieve the same goal. I don't believe in "once in a lifetime" so I refuse to spend big bucks just because it is a rare opportunity. I evaluate everything based on its value and I am happy to wait until later if necessary.

E.g. I would love to do a "proper" snorkeling trip and just last week was on a cruise and could have easily paid for one. But we had already splurged on the cruise itself and I want to spend Christmas at Fort Wilderness. So I happily snorkeled from shore on an incredibly beautiful beach in St Maarten, paying just $4pp to take a public bus. It was amazing. Snorkeling in a coral reef will come in time.

I use similar principles with my own kids and neither ended up in expensive sports although I did pay for piano lessons for my DD until she was 12. Then my son did travel soccer for a few years and I volunteered on the board so he could get it half price.

So here I am, a millionaire and FIREd at 39 even though DH and I only earned around $60k each for most of our working lives. (And mine was particularly short since I was a SAHM for over 6 years).

 

[pillow]

I recently read Total Money Makeover and Everyday Millionaire. While I don't agree with everything Ramsey preaches, I do believe that by being intentional with budgeting, investing wisely, living within one's means, and staying out of debt, ANYONE can amass a net worth of 1 million dollars over time. And I agree with your post about how having $1million would not change the way I live, except that my giving would increase as my net worth increases.

And really, $1 million isn't all that much if you consider home equity as counting towards net worth. Assume a $300k home that's paid for. Then $700k in retirement assets, for a total of $1 million net worth. If you apply the 4% safe withdrawal rate per year in retirement to your $700k, that would be $2,333/month of income pre-tax. Thats not a lot to live on really.

 

[SouthFayetteFan]

And really, $1 million isn't all that much if you consider home equity as counting towards net worth. Assume a $300k home that's paid for. Then $700k in retirement assets, for a total of $1 million net worth. If you apply the 4% safe withdrawal rate per year in retirement to your $700k, that would be $2,333/month of income pre-tax. Thats not a lot to live on really.

Yep! Time has changed the term “millionaire”. In 1989 dollars it was a pretty good situation. In 2019 dollars...it’s just not quite the same

 

[1st*toright]

Thinking about changing my approach to retirement savings in that we are contributing the maximum $19K to 401(k) on both my job and my wife’s job, and we do that equally over 24 pay periods throughout the year. But I am going to change our contribution to the amount of our paycheck early in the year so that we can get that money in and have more time in the market. We have the money in savings, so we will just change it zero once we have contributed the maximum and replenish savings.

I would be willing to write a check immediately to get the funds in there but don’t think that is an option because it needs to come out of wages.

The only downside I can think of is if an extreme situation occurred, such as job loss or some prolonged absence that would result in unpaid time off after all our PTO was depleted. Certainly need to weigh that risk, but not enough to deter me. Anything else I’m missing?

You got lots of good advice about double checking the mechanics of your company match. I have to do some complicated math to determine my 401k contribution each year - if I hit the pre-tax max too early in the year, I will lose out on the company match (because they do the match on a per-paycheck basis), and bonuses and stuff can mess with the calc. Unfortunately, my company doesn't have a post-tax vehicle available, so I gotta keep an eye on it over the year.

Yep! Time has changed the term “millionaire”. In 1989 dollars it was a pretty good situation. In 2019 dollars...it’s just not quite the same

Just thinking of Dr. Evil - one MILLION dollars, I mean, one BILLION dollars...

I generally don't gamble (long term stock market investment isn't gambling, but day trading can be!), but my department has been chipping in to buy power ball tickets - and we've been running the numbers to figure out how much we would need to win in order to be able to all quit at once. If we hit the jackpot, sure, but most of the smaller pots, once split 10 ways really wouldn't get us very far. Not that it wouldn't be nice, but we'd hardly be set for life.

Thanks to all for the comments on the doing stuff vs. saving discussion. It will be constantly evolving, I'm sure. There are months when I feel like Scrooge McDuck, looking at my balances and happy about the increase due to socking away our tax refund or my bonus or gains in the market or whatever, and then there are times when I look at our budget at the end of the month and feel like we are being way to spendy. Its funny- I pretty much never see someone else's newer car, or bigger house and say "oh I wish I had that". I don't even envy other people's bank balances (not that I know what they are, but at least 2 of my siblings definitely have way more in the bank than DH and I do). I'm quite satisfied with our lifestyle, the pain point for me is feeling like I'm shorting our savings in any given month (even when I'm doing it for good reasons).

 

[elaine amj]

And really, $1 million isn't all that much if you consider home equity as counting towards net worth. Assume a $300k home that's paid for. Then $700k in retirement assets, for a total of $1 million net worth. If you apply the 4% safe withdrawal rate per year in retirement to your $700k, that would be $2,333/month of income pre-tax. Thats not a lot to live on really.

So true. A million really isn't all that much these days.

But really, FIRE depends on what YOU need. The whole idea is that the less you spend, the less you need to FIRE with. Which means the sooner you can FIRE. So the goal is to drive down expenses to the lowest number possible (I still live luxuriously IMO) and save up towards that number.

In my early days on MMM, ppl seemed to target an average of $750k to FIRE for a family. Now I usually see numbers ranging between $1.5-2 million.

But everyone has different goals. My mother is 70, retired and living with me. Her philosophy is to earn as much as possible so she can spend without worrying. As she is generally frugal (she still washes out ziploc bags), it mostly works for her. She's not quite so crazy about my FIRE philosophy so deals with my pennypinching ways and often pays for our family splurges.

Its kinda nice to enjoy her splurges but sometimes I get a bit stressed about it thinking that she'd be better off saving that money for regular/future expenses. Especially since we are her safety net and cover all basic living expenses while she is living with us.

It's a bit funny. Here I am FIREd at 39 and working hard to avoid "real" work while at 70, she is interested in looking for housesitting/babysitting jobs so she has extra money for splurges.

 

[QueenIsabella]

So true. A million really isn't all that much these days.

But really, FIRE depends on what YOU need. The whole idea is that the less you spend, the less you need to FIRE with. Which means the sooner you can FIRE. So the goal is to drive down expenses to the lowest number possible (I still live luxuriously IMO) and save up towards that number.

In my early days on MMM, ppl seemed to target an average of $750k to FIRE for a family. Now I usually see numbers ranging between $1.5-2 million.

But everyone has different goals. My mother is 70, retired and living with me. Her philosophy is to earn as much as possible so she can spend without worrying. As she is generally frugal (she still washes out ziploc bags), it mostly works for her. She's not quite so crazy about my FIRE philosophy so deals with my pennypinching ways and often pays for our family splurges.

Its kinda nice to enjoy her splurges but sometimes I get a bit stressed about it thinking that she'd be better off saving that money for regular/future expenses. Especially since we are her safety net and cover all basic living expenses while she is living with us.

It's a bit funny. Here I am FIREd at 39 and working hard to avoid "real" work while at 70, she is interested in looking for housesitting/babysitting jobs so she has extra money for splurges.

It may well be that your mom feels happy and productive when she's earning money, even if she doesn't need it for everyday expenses.

When my MIL was alive, she was always thrilled to find a bargain. Even when she had more money coming in (SS, dividends, RMDs) than she could possibly spend on herself. Heck, I'll probably STILL buy books at the used bookstore when DH retires!

 

[elaine amj]

It may well be that your mom feels happy and productive when she's earning money, even if she doesn't need it for everyday expenses.

When my MIL was alive, she was always thrilled to find a bargain. Even when she had more money coming in (SS, dividends, RMDs) than she could possibly spend on herself. Heck, I'll probably STILL buy books at the used bookstore when DH retires!

It's just a different approach - the minimalistic approach of MMM's version of FIRE is not for everybody. My mother is more of a boglehead

She'd be happy not to have to earn money. But although she has enough for her basic needs and some splurges, she doesn't have quite enough for more and doesn't like the feeling of not being able to spend as she pleases. So she would like to work a little more so she has more freedom to spend whereas I am happy spending less so I have more freedom not to work.

 

[pillow]

It's just a different approach - the minimalistic approach of MMM's version of FIRE is not for everybody. My mother is more of a boglehead

She'd be happy not to have to earn money. But although she has enough for her basic needs and some splurges, she doesn't have quite enough for more and doesn't like the feeling of not being able to spend as she pleases. So she would like to work a little more so she has more freedom to spend whereas I am happy spending less so I have more freedom not to work.

Whats nice for both of you is that work is a CHOICE. Even though you approach things differently, you both are in a position where you have flexibility. Which is the entire point of FIRE, retirement, or whatever you want to call it.

 

[AJollyHoliday]

But everyone has different goals. My mother is 70, retired and living with me. Her philosophy is to earn as much as possible so she can spend without worrying. As she is generally frugal (she still washes out ziploc bags),

Hahaha, I am only 41 and I wash out ziplock bags and reuse foil . I have for years. DH and I feel like it is a waste of plastic. I remember my mom yelling at me as a kid for throwing out a baggie that only had been used once and had pretzels in it. We actually use reusable snack bags for our lunch items and DDs lunch.

Anyway, I thought it was funny .

 

[LuckyMamaInDE]

Hahaha, I am only 41 and I wash out ziplock bags and reuse foil . I have for years. DH and I feel like it is a waste of plastic. I remember my mom yelling at me as a kid for throwing out a baggie that only had been used once and had pretzels in it. We actually use reusable snack bags for our lunch items and DDs lunch.

Anyway, I thought it was funny .

I'm 52 and have been reusing plastic bags since I had to start buying my own! I have a few heavier weight produce-size bags from the natural foods store that I also reuse. I carry them in my purse with my reusable grocery bags so that I always have them with me. What's funny is that I go to my older kids' apartments and THEY have ziplock bags drying upside down on wooden spoons, too

Do you know what brand of reusable snack bags you have?

We are in the FI camp as dh loves what he does and can't see himself, at this point, retiring before his mid60s. Taking on a junior partner, yes, but not fully retiring early.

 

[AJollyHoliday]

I'm 52 and have been reusing plastic bags since I had to start buying my own! I have a few heavier weight produce-size bags from the natural foods store that I also reuse. I carry them in my purse with my reusable grocery bags so that I always have them with me. What's funny is that I go to my older kids' apartments and THEY have ziplock bags drying upside down on wooden spoons, too

Do you know what brand of reusable snack bags you have?

We are in the FI camp as dh loves what he does and can't see himself, at this point, retiring before his mid60s. Taking on a junior partner, yes, but not fully retiring early.

I have a rack for drying our bags, which also is for drying bottles and such things. We use Snack Taxis which have been our favorites, but I recently bought chicobags on Amazon and I like those, they are adjustable in size. We bring them to Disney with us to fill with snacks.

I am leaning towards the FI side because I LOVE my job. I am a college professor and don't see myself retiring until my 60s. That being said, my dad passed away last year at the age of 67 (college dean) and he loved his job, but was less than 5 years from retiring. Despite that, he did take time to enjoy his life and I know he had no regrets. To me that is a big thing about FI, being able to enjoy my life. RE is nice too, but not while I am still having fun at my job.

 

[QueenIsabella]

It's just a different approach - the minimalistic approach of MMM's version of FIRE is not for everybody. My mother is more of a boglehead

She'd be happy not to have to earn money. But although she has enough for her basic needs and some splurges, she doesn't have quite enough for more and doesn't like the feeling of not being able to spend as she pleases. So she would like to work a little more so she has more freedom to spend whereas I am happy spending less so I have more freedom not to work.

I'm more of a boglehead, too. I do enjoy reading the MMM people--some of them are very clever and dedicated, I have to give them props for that.

I'm still waiting for the day when I can spend as I please. My suspicion at this point is, it's never going to arrive, because I just couldn't bring myself to spend. Right now, we do splurge on travel--and that's a big splurge, since we're a family of 6. I guess I'm also mindful that the travel may not last--DH's father died at 58, and I have a BIL who's traveling with us next year, who may not be able to travel in the future due to health issues. Crap can happen to anyone.

That said, I, for one, do not wash out plastic bags. Kudos to those of you who do--I just find it to be more trouble than it's worth. I do re-use bags and boxes all the time, and do plenty of other money-saving things. I think everyone has to find their own do's and don't's.

 

[LuckyMamaInDE]

I have a rack for drying our bags, which also is for drying bottles and such things. We use Snack Taxis which have been our favorites, but I recently bought chicobags on Amazon and I like those, they are adjustable in size. We bring them to Disney with us to fill with snacks.

Thank you!

 

[elaine amj]

That said, I, for one, do not wash out plastic bags. Kudos to those of you who do--I just find it to be more trouble than it's worth. I do re-use bags and boxes all the time, and do plenty of other money-saving things. I think everyone has to find their own do's and don't's.

Haha...I am pretty minimalistic but I don't wash ziploc bag out very often either. Trying to do it a little more now but usually only if it is almost clean. Might try to find a bottle drying rack from the thrift store or something to make it easier to dry ziplocs. Or duh....I can use my dishwasher as a drying rack.

 

[AJollyHoliday]

Haha...I am pretty minimalistic but I don't wash ziploc bag out very often either. Trying to do it a little more now but usually only if it is almost clean. Might try to find a bottle drying rack from the thrift store or something to make it easier to dry ziplocs. Or duh....I can use my dishwasher as a drying rack.

I do it not so much to save $, but rather to save plastic. That is my FOO coming out (family of origin for those who were wondering).

 

[Brancaneve]

If you are interested in the FIRE community I highly recommend the blog and podcast "Afford Anything". Paula Pant is wonderful! She explains things so well and really aims to teach about investing, real estate and how to generally be a better version of you.

Another blog and app is Mr. Money Mustache who is one of the earlier pioneers in the FIRE community. One of his blog posts details how we would NEVER go to Disneyland or Disney World because he finds it a ridiculous waste of money.