The Intersection of FIRE and Disney

[BridgetBordeaux]

Kind of a rant but...............

Yes.......there are many years of boring times.
It was boring when we kept on driving our old cars.
It was boring to pay off our second mortgage of 17K once we had some excess cash set aside (CD's paid 1 percent when our rate was about 5.5 back then)
When I was paid weekly, I would buy mutual fund shares each week and tried to buy a bit more if the week had been bad for the market........but I was still really dollar cost averaging.

House/Car/buying things for the kids.......if you can tolerate a smaller house (boring), driving your car for 10 years in a row (boring), getting clothes and some toys from the thrift store/yard sale (boring)........you will eventually be repaid with a low stress middle age life because you will not longer have to fret about money.

Our kid recently finished college and now has a real job. We have kept our bills low.
We are now starting to enjoy the flexibility of not working and being able to do what we want (within reason) with our spare time.

 

[Starport Seven-Five]

You are in the longest and most boring stage of reaching FIRE. There is really nothing I’ve found that can inject excitement into this phase. The bloggers know that which is why none of them really write about it. “Keep going to work for 10 years” apparently isn’t sexy enough to anchor a blog post, LOL!

I say this as somebody else who is also in this stage. I’m about 4 years into this particular stage of the journey and autopilot is certainly the best word to describe it. I wish I could impart more wisdom but truthfully it’s all about wake up, don’t get fired, buy VTSAX, repeat... for me at least lol.

Ha, we're about 1.5 years into this stage. Life is just seems... normal until we do the quarterly net worth update and see how much progress was made.

You might have fun reading the Bogleheads forum. I see it as more of an investment forum--there are places to discuss regular consumer issues (what kind of fridge should I get) as well as personal financial issues (should I buy into this franchise?) and investing issues (which mutual fund?). I find I learn a lot there. Where the Money Mustache people are more about saving every penny (I read there, too), the Bogleheads are more about prudent investing and spending wisely. Clearly, there's overlap, but I look at MMM as more the "sell plasma and dumpster dive" guys--which is fine, while Bogleheads is more about preserving what they have.

I'll have to check it out. I've been on the MMM forums before and kind of faded out of it because of exactly what you describe.

Fact of the matter is that pretty much anyone who is telling you that they have investment advice that will help you beat the market probably is selling snake oil. I second @QueenIsabella re. Bogelheads for level headed discussion of investment opportunities. Prudence and patience is a boring formula, but it works.

I think that's why some of us (notably Mr. @SouthFayetteFan) get into things like credit cards - even if you only play the points game to pay for travel, its a way to engage some of the same mental processes and entertain yourself with spreadsheets while you're on auto-pilot with investing and saving. I don't know that it impacts my net worth growth, but it does get me more travel for my travel dollars.

I've made the lifestyle decisions already (not changing jobs or moving to a lower COLA area or taking up dumpster diving anytime soon), so pretty much nothing I do will impact my net worth growth in a meaningful way, other than timing my stock option exercises well, but I still pick up nickels by keeping an eye on our spending habits and doing some small side-hustle work when I have the time. Keeps me engaged.

Yeah, I've done the CC rewards thing the last couple years. I used to do one or two signup bonuses per year... then heard a ChooseFI podcast about it and went all in. We actually did our January Disney trip for under 1k (including all food) which was a fun challenge. Kind of throttled back now to get back under 5/24 but will be jumping into that again next year.

 

[QueenIsabella]

Don't get me wrong--I respect the MMM people for being willing to go through such lengths to save/earn money. I just don't make all the same choices.

Larger picture, I think being frugal gets you to financial freedom faster, but we all pick which ways we want to be cheap. Some do credit card churning; some, especially those who travel for work, save with free miles. My BFF has a side hustle, finding vintage toys at thrift stores and yard sales, that she resells on eBay. Others do the same thing with designer clothes. Personally, I shop the secondhand market for clothes and cook virtually all meals at home. If you make a game of it, then the "thrill of the chase" can give you that rush of endorphins that you don't get while quietly growing your net worth.

 

[1st*toright]

Don't get me wrong--I respect the MMM people for being willing to go through such lengths to save/earn money. I just don't make all the same choices.

Larger picture, I think being frugal gets you to financial freedom faster, but we all pick which ways we want to be cheap. Some do credit card churning; some, especially those who travel for work, save with free miles. My BFF has a side hustle, finding vintage toys at thrift stores and yard sales, that she resells on eBay. Others do the same thing with designer clothes. Personally, I shop the secondhand market for clothes and cook virtually all meals at home. If you make a game of it, then the "thrill of the chase" can give you that rush of endorphins that you don't get while quietly growing your net worth.

I find reading MMM and other FIRE resources entertaining (because some people are nuts) and every once in a while I come across something that I could be doing differently to cheap out on something random.

I periodically look at all our largest expenses and try to figure out if we could be doing our life for less money. Other than my perpetual quest to spend less on groceries, there isn't much I could do without impacting parts of our life we care about- we spend a lot of money on gym memberships (ironic, because none of us look particularly fit), but we use the memberships we have, so I'm not going to cut those out. I really wish I liked running - it would be much cheaper, but it cripples me every time I try to do it.

Its always a balance of time vs. money, too. I have limited free time, so doing any side-hustle stuff that I don't enjoy is just silly. I like to write, so my side hustle is writing. Its fun, I make a little money, and if I don't have time, that's fine. I definitely spend less on groceries when I have time to plan around sales and pay attention to coupons. When I'm working a million hours and DH is in charge of shopping and meal planning, we spend way more on food. But there would be no way I could replace the income from my demanding job with better "frugal hacks", so that's the way it goes sometimes.

 

[Starport Seven-Five]

Its always a balance of time vs. money, too. I have limited free time, so doing any side-hustle stuff that I don't enjoy is just silly.

This is the root of a lot of my complaints I think. I recently audited a lot of our home resource usage and the only thing I could find is a toilet that was built in 1990 and used ~2.8 gallons per flush. Replacing that with a 1.1 gallon toilet saves us ~$40/year (optimistically). I enjoyed the process of crunching numbers and analyzing different options but there has to be a better use of my time.

 

[bernina]

Yeah, I've done the CC rewards thing the last couple years. I used to do one or two signup bonuses per year... then heard a ChooseFI podcast about it and went all in. We actually did our January Disney trip for under 1k (including all food) which was a fun challenge. Kind of throttled back now to get back under 5/24 but will be jumping into that again next year.

You should join us on the credit card thread, it's one of the friendliest threads on the DIS and it was also started by our own @SouthFayetteFan.

https://www.disboards.com/threads/i...-addl-details.3729982/page-3199#post-61228766

 

[SouthFayetteFan]

You should join us on the credit card thread, it's one of the friendliest threads on the DIS and it was also started by our own @SouthFayetteFan.

https://www.disboards.com/threads/i...-addl-details.3729982/page-3199#post-61228766

Just to clarify - I did not start that group. I joined into that community after it had existed for probably a year. I did handle the refresh of the thread earlier this year however.

(I don’t want to take credit undeservingly).

 

[Mome Rath]

Just to clarify - I did not start that group. I joined into that community after it had existed for probably a year. I did handle the refresh of the thread earlier this year however.

(I don’t want to take credit undeservingly).

I see what you did there...

 

[bernina]

Just to clarify - I did not start that group. I joined into that community after it had existed for probably a year. I did handle the refresh of the thread earlier this year however.

(I don’t want to take credit undeservingly).

Fair enough, although you are our benevolent dictator (errr I mean fearless leader!).

 

[Eastern]

Challenge: find someone to to the really hard/backbreaking work of overhauling the landscaping if we "prep" it by cutting the bushes down to 2 foot stumps to aid in removal.

Bids: came in between 2500 and 5000 dollars.

Decision: No Way!

Alternative: got a friend's 24 year old stepson to do just the stump removal stage for things that were way too hard for us. It was about 2/3 of the stumps. Paid him 35 dollars an hour. Got the labor done for $245

Total cost after doing LOTS of work ourselves and driving to the country and getting the mix of 1 gallon and 3 gallon plants from a wholesale nursery...........Less than 1000 dollars for the entire project!

We saved between 1500 and 3500 dollars and now will have years of easier bush trimming ahead of us.

The money saved will be used for about a year of Disney trips.............Hooray!!

I like this. I find that landscaping work is very expensive for most things.

When we first moved into our house, I had a row of boxwood (small) that I wanted pulled. I asked a landscaping guy how much and he said $125. He pulled those bushes out with his hands in literally 5 minutes and I felt really stupid as I easily could have done it myself. After that we do most maintenance ourselves except for taking down trees and lawn cutting, which I view as cheap in view of the time factor.

 

[Eastern]

btw I just found this thread. I also read MMM on occasion for curiosity's sake. (Some weird stuff goes on there.) Mostly I read Bogleheads, which is my overall favorite site. There are some really knowledgeable people there.

 

[SouthFayetteFan]

An exciting thing quietly happened for me in my FIRE journey this week. Net worth hit $600k for the first time! We've gone from $50k to $600k in a little less than a decade! The market performance has certainly been kind to me this year but I'm still celebrating this one (even if it could easily dip back under if the market pulls back a little).

I'm REALLY starting to see that snowball grow now. It's rolling down the hill and can't be stopped.

 

[QueenIsabella]

Good for you!

You do reach a point where the investments make more by themselves, versus just growing by you adding to them (i.e., making your contributions). This has been a pretty good month. My kids have trusts from their grandmother--not huge amounts, but enough for, say, a house down payment. DS22 has his in a special trust (since he's old enough that UTMA expired on him, and he has Asperger's and impulse control issues). He just LOVES earning money while sitting on his butt, which is one of the lessons we're trying to teach him--leave this money alone, and it will grow for you. He made over $1000 last month, but simply LEAVING HIS MONEY ALONE. It's so simple, yet so powerful.

 

[alryan]

An exciting thing quietly happened for me in my FIRE journey this week. Net worth hit $600k for the first time! We've gone from $50k to $600k in a little less than a decade! The market performance has certainly been kind to me this year but I'm still celebrating this one (even if it could easily dip back under if the market pulls back a little).

I'm REALLY starting to see that snowball grow now. It's rolling down the hill and can't be stopped.

Congratulations!!! I do think you have to celebrate those milestones. As it's been mentioned before you are at a relatively boring stage in chasing FIRE so celebrating milestones along the way can help. Personally I celebrate every $100k. Or when our investments made more than we did at our jobs for a quarter! $50k to $600k in less than a decade, that's pretty impressive

 

[bernina]

An exciting thing quietly happened for me in my FIRE journey this week. Net worth hit $600k for the first time! We've gone from $50k to $600k in a little less than a decade! The market performance has certainly been kind to me this year but I'm still celebrating this one (even if it could easily dip back under if the market pulls back a little).

I'm REALLY starting to see that snowball grow now. It's rolling down the hill and can't be stopped.

That's awesome, you should celebrate for sure, maybe an extra papa john's pizza this week

It's amazing when the hard work and sacrifices (big and small) start to really show. I know for years we were putting our 10-15% in 401ks and not much else. They grew but as someone above said, mostly due to our contributions. The last few years we've doubled down our efforts and that snowball is finally starting to roll much faster on it's own.

Here's to continued savings and credit card rewards that keep travel costs from eating into the nest egg

 

[bernina]

Good for you!

You do reach a point where the investments make more by themselves, versus just growing by you adding to them (i.e., making your contributions). This has been a pretty good month. My kids have trusts from their grandmother--not huge amounts, but enough for, say, a house down payment. DS22 has his in a special trust (since he's old enough that UTMA expired on him, and he has Asperger's and impulse control issues). He just LOVES earning money while sitting on his butt, which is one of the lessons we're trying to teach him--leave this money alone, and it will grow for you. He made over $1000 last month, but simply LEAVING HIS MONEY ALONE. It's so simple, yet so powerful.

What a wonderful lesson to teach your children, good job Mom! When DD8's bank statements come I sit her down and show her the balance and interest. It's not very exciting since it's just in a local credit union, but she almost has enough where we can start discussing where to invest.

 

[QueenIsabella]

What a wonderful lesson to teach your children, good job Mom! When DD8's bank statements come I sit her down and show her the balance and interest. It's not very exciting since it's just in a local credit union, but she almost has enough where we can start discussing where to invest.

Thanks. But you should understand--I grew up poor. Of all the things I dreamed of as a child (mostly involving being "not poor"), and all the hopes and fears I had for my children, it never, ever occurred to me that I might have trust fund kids. I want to reiterate--our last name isn't "Rockefeller", and my kids don't have enough in their trusts to live a life of leisure. But, they do have enough that the kids could make some serious mistakes, whether blowing the money on a sports car or loaning it to dubious friends or putting it in their arm. So, we've really had to think carefully about what we tell them and how teach them to manage this gift from their grandmother. My MIL was savvy enough not to give them all the money at once, so there can be do-overs if needed. But, the whole situation is a lot less fun than you'd think that managing trusts would be.

On the good side, our oldest, DD24, has put $5k/year in her Roth for the past 2 years. So at least she's listening. And DS22 is self-aware enough to know he has impulse issues, so he signed the paperwork that requires 2 signatures for access to his funds. My younger two are minors--DD16 hasn't shown much interest, one way or another, but DS13 follows the stock market and wants to make specific investments. So, so far, so good.

 

[bernina]

Thanks. But you should understand--I grew up poor. Of all the things I dreamed of as a child (mostly involving being "not poor"), and all the hopes and fears I had for my children, it never, ever occurred to me that I might have trust fund kids. I want to reiterate--our last name isn't "Rockefeller", and my kids don't have enough in their trusts to live a life of leisure. But, they do have enough that the kids could make some serious mistakes, whether blowing the money on a sports car or loaning it to dubious friends or putting it in their arm. So, we've really had to think carefully about what we tell them and how teach them to manage this gift from their grandmother. My MIL was savvy enough not to give them all the money at once, so there can be do-overs if needed. But, the whole situation is a lot less fun than you'd think that managing trusts would be.

On the good side, our oldest, DD24, has put $5k/year in her Roth for the past 2 years. So at least she's listening. And DS22 is self-aware enough to know he has impulse issues, so he signed the paperwork that requires 2 signatures for access to his funds. My younger two are minors--DD16 hasn't shown much interest, one way or another, but DS13 follows the stock market and wants to make specific investments. So, so far, so good.

That's so awesome. I know when you hear the word trust fund kid you think of the rich and famous but how wonderful of your MIL to plan ahead and be able to provide that legacy to her grandkids. It sounds like you've done everything right to guide them in making good decisions which is about the best we can do as parents.

In other FIRE news I've started getting my spreadsheet together for my 2019 YE summary. Some of the final data will need to wait until tax time but I like knowing I have the sheet ready to plug in numbers. I track everything through YNAB so it's all readily available. Since I'm still relatively new to this I'm taking a second pass at 2018 and filling in a bit more detail on spending. The most impactful thing I can do during this "boring" phase is to manage expenses and reduce where possible without sacrificing what we value (travel, good food, spontaneity, and a good education for DD).

What does everyone else do to account for the year?

Also, any tips for adding inflation/cost increases into today's yearly expenses? What type of assumptions are folks using for healthcare costs?

 

[1st*toright]

@QueenIsabella - Family money can be so helpful, or it can be such a curse. I'm so glad you guys have plans in place to assist your kids in managing their inheritance. My Dad's philosophy is that giving too much money to young adults money does them a disservice (mostly based on his ex who ran through her own trust fund, spent years bugging her mom for money, then managed to spend all that she inherited from her mom and was destitute thereafter. She never really had a job, and was not a happy person). So he has employed various strategies to make sure that we never expected him to support us, but has been generous at various points in our lives that have made a meaningful difference.

@bernina I don't try to budget healthcare costs - I have an HSA, which is just barely below my full deductible even though we are almost at the end of the plan year. My company kicks in $1000 at the beginning of the year if you have an HSA, so I will be fully funded for the year for my deductible. This year was a little expensive (nothing serious, but dental work can be soooo expensive!), so my usual buffer of up to our oop max is a little depleted, so next year's contributions will take care of that. Once that is built back up, I will stick contributions in the HSA investment vehicle (and forget about them until my insurance situation changes).

I just did our annual enrollment for benefits. Good news is that the cost (to me) of all my elections comes out to $4 more than last year. That includes life insurance (I have a medical condition that makes it tough to get life insurance on the open market, so its great that I can get coverage through work, at least). So I'm not complaining, even though the total of all my benefits is 3/4s of what my salary was for my first job!

Haven't started working on my annual roundup yet - I don't do anything nearly as detailed as @SouthFayetteFan and his super spreadsheet, but I do like to see the year over year change in our various savings vehicles. I will corral my husband into doing a budget meeting so we can review the year and set some priorities for next year.

 

[bernina]

I'm thinking I'd like to open an investment account for DD8. She has about $1K that I'd like to start off with but I can chip in more if minimum requirements are higher (and we tend to "match" anything she chooses to put into savings as an incentive and early lesson on 401k matching). This would be separate from her college savings money and would be a place to invest holiday, birthday, and other event money. She's young enough that I feel investing in VTSAX or similar would be a good choice. I plan to discuss the risks associated with her and the ultimate decision will be up to her.

Looking online Custodial accounts caught my eye but I see they figure into financial aid calculations in the future as an asset owned by the child.

I initially thought that I could open a brokerage account in my name and only invest her funds so it would be very easy to isolate when the time came to cash out and move to an account in her name or pay for a car, etc. However in this case taxes on the gains would be paid at our tax bracket which should be significantly higher than when she's just starting out.

Any recommended reading or account types I should look into? I really just want her savings to grow by more than the pennies it's getting now. And while I realize the benefit on $1K is next to nothing, it's the compounding snowball over the next 6-8 years that I'm aiming for. As well as helping to teach her about investment choices.