The ignorance continues...

[dianeschlicht]

I would rather let everyone have the freedom, then seek out an punish the ones who are bad. I think people's views of pit bulls are skewed by media reports of what they do. Also, a lot of morons who want dogs are attracted to pit bulls because they think they sound tough. A lot of times the dogs wind up in shelters because the owners are dissapointed by how "not tough" they are.

I agree, and those who buy a dog because it "is tough" are of the mindset that makes that dog that way. It is the same with other "tough" breeds like Rottwielers, German Shepherds, Dobermans etc. Some people who own those breeds WANT them to look and act tough and treat them so they do.

 

[EsmeraldaX]

Originally posted by dianeschlicht
And that maikes them all bad? You stidll didn't answer my questions. Someone shot and killed another person in the mall last week. Are all people bad because of that?

Exactly.

You only hear about the few bad seed people on the news, yet you know hundreds of people so you know that it's not true. You don't know hundreds of " pit bulls " so when you hear about the few bad seeds on the news you assume that they must all be bad.

I imagine that if there was an alien from a nother planet who came here and watched our nightly news each night, they'd think people were just as bad "pit bulls" , if not much worse.

 

[dianeschlicht]

Originally posted by EsmeraldaX
Exactly.

You only hear about the few bad seed people on the news, yet you know hundreds of people so you know that it's not true. You don't know hundreds of " pit bulls " so when you hear about the few bad seeds on the news you assume that they must all be bad.

I imagine that if there was an alien from a nother planet who came here and watched our nightly news each night, they'd think people were just as bad "pit bulls" , if not much worse.

VERY good analogy!

 

[Trish Bessette]

How many "pit bulls" (nefarious name here) have you KNOWN? If you have not lived with one or known many, how can you judge? There are bad and good dogs of all breeds just like there are good and bad people. Just by being a specific breed does not mean all of them are BAD! Besides, WHAT is a pit bull? Is it an American Staffordshire Terrier, a Staffordshire Terrier, a Bull Terrier, a Boston Terrier? etc etc.... So many dogs are mis-identified to be "pit bulls" that aren't.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've known of 3 in our area that have been put down from of vicious attacks. Another one was put down at the owners request because of how mean it was.

I'm not saying because of a specific breed all of them are bad.

No need for tempers to flare.

 

[Saffron]

Sorry, double post and I like the second one better.

 

[goofy4tink]

We have several terriers in our family....wire fox terriers, soft coated wheatens. We say that they have a 'terrier state of mind'. Terriers, as a group, need some pretty strong boundries. My poor golden ret. is always being harrassed by his terrier family members. It's really pretty funny to watch. But, having said this...I have had a Jack Russell come up on my front step, invited by his owner, and snarl at me and leap at my leg, teeth bared!! Nope, not acceptable. The dog was told he was a naughty dog and would have to sit in the car. Yeah, that sure made a difference. Now, you have a pit bull, yes they are American Staff., but most know them as pit bulls, with those jaws and the normal inclination to just bite down and keep hold.....I'm sorry. Just way too much room for error. I've seen way too many people that can't control their dogs, terriers and others. Should the breed/dog be blamed? No, but what should we do?

I know that my m-i-l thinks I'm way too hard on my golden. He gets nothing free. He earns it. He doesn't just get his dinner. He must sit and wait until released. I must be able to stick my hand in his food bowl and take out food. I should be able to take a marrow bone away from him. Tried that with my m-i-l's golden and he almost took off my hand!! It's in the training. And that is the same for our pit bulls. As long as people remember what their dog is capable of, they'll be fine. I never left my dd when she was younger than 4 alone with our dog. He's an animal for crying out loud! Yes, he's a pet and a part of our family. But, still an animal.

So, do I think the pit bulls (Amer. Staff. terriers) are getting a bad rap? I hate to see any breed set apart. But, I would love to see intensive training for the 'bad rap' breeds. But I also don't think that will ever happen. My motto?? A well trained dog is a happy dog.

 

[EsmeraldaX]

Yes, and dogs can not train themselves. Therefore a breed should not be punished because they are owned by idiots who refuse to put forth the time, effort and money to train them.

 

[Saffron]

They can pass laws until the cows come home, it still isn't going to stop people from doing what they want to do. Look at the article ... a police officer took his pet off the leash. Case closed as to how much the laws are followed and how much new ones are going to make a difference. Someone else in the article states that: "Laws could have prevented this". Well, obviously not.

The new laws are just a bunch of hooey by people who are trying to look like they're "working on the problem", nothing more. People are gonna do what they're gonna do, despite laws, common sense, pleas from the community etc. etc.

 

[AirForceRocks]

While I don't believe for a second that all pit bulls are evil, killer dogs, it would seem that, according to the story in the OP, the statistics bear out that the breed is more dangerous to people and other animals than are other breeds. Perhaps I missed part of the story, but I don't see where they are being banned, so I fail to see what the problem is.

And if the stats are correct, then of course insurance companies are going to charge higher rates to homeowners that have a pit bull in the house. It is just like any other risk factor when it comes to insurance. If people choose to own that particular breed, then increased insurance rates are just the price of that decision.

 

[gallaj0]

I'm sure there are plenty of well trained and behaved Pit Bulls out there, but I think you're being misleading by saying they have to be trained to be mean.

Dogs, and I mean all dogs, are by their nature territorial, protective, and capable of attacking anything they feel threatened by.

People can not tell by looking at a dog wether or not they have been trained to be docile, trained to attack, or not trained at all and left to their own nature. Some breeds of dogs exhibit more or less of these "dog" traits, and will naturally be more resistant to train than others, and more likely to break training for some reason. Pit Bulls, among others, are one of the dogs bred for agressive behaviour, powerful jaw muscles, and territoriality.

Adding all this up, and throwing in no training, or bad training, and you have a potentially deadly animal.

 

[EsmeraldaX]

Originally posted by gallaj0

Dogs, and I mean all dogs, are by their nature territorial, protective, and capable of attacking anything they feel threatened by.

People can not tell by looking at a dog wether or not they have been trained to be docile, trained to attack, or not trained at all and left to their own nature. Some breeds of dogs exhibit more or less of these "dog" traits, and will naturally be more resistant to train than others, and more likely to break training for some reason. Pit Bulls, among others, are one of the dogs bred for agressive behaviour, powerful jaw muscles, and territoriality.

Which is exactly why they should
A. not be approached unless you are given permission from the owner
and
B. Should not be left off their leash to wander the streets.

Both of these issues are human issues. And responsible dog owners who know their dogs limits should not be punished because of idiots who do not.

 

[AirForceRocks]

And responsible dog owners who know their dogs limits should not be punished because of idiots who do not.

OK, this is what I'm missing - how are the owners of pit bulls being punished?

 

[EsmeraldaX]

Originally posted by AirForceRocks
While I don't believe for a second that all pit bulls are evil, killer dogs, it would seem that, according to the story in the OP, the statistics bear out that the breed is more dangerous to people and other animals than are other breeds. Perhaps I missed part of the story, but I don't see where they are being banned, so I fail to see what the problem is.

And if the stats are correct, then of course insurance companies are going to charge higher rates to homeowners that have a pit bull in the house. It is just like any other risk factor when it comes to insurance. If people choose to own that particular breed, then increased insurance rates are just the price of that decision.

Yes but what those statistics fail to mention is that the owners are often abusive, neglectful or refuse to get the dog the proper training to behave like normal dog owners do.

Idiots are drawn to dogs with bad reputations. I don't know why, but they are.

I never said they were being banned, what I said was they are being close to being banned. Requiring all owners to spay/neuter is scary. What about the people who love the breed and breed good pups that go to good homes? Why are they being punished? Why make good dogs wear muzzles in public when a good owner could easily prevent their dog from attacking with the proper leash/collar restraint.

The bad owners are not going to follow the laws anyway, so why are the good owners being punished???

 

[DawnCt1]

Originally posted by EsmeraldaX
It was a small child, about 2 years old maybe a little younger.

I would rather let everyone have the freedom, then seek out an punish the ones who are bad. I think people's views of pit bulls are skewed by media reports of what they do. .

I think that people's views of pill bulls are "skewed" by reality.

 

[alabamaalan]

Originally posted by Saffron
They can pass laws until the cows come home, it still isn't going to stop people from doing what they want to do. Look at the article ... a police officer took his pet off the leash. Case closed as to how much the laws are followed and how much new ones are going to make a difference. Someone else in the article states that: "Laws could have prevented this". Well, obviously not.

Excellent point

 

[dianeschlicht]

Originally posted by Trish Bessette
How many "pit bulls" (nefarious name here) have you KNOWN? If you have not lived with one or known many, how can you judge? There are bad and good dogs of all breeds just like there are good and bad people. Just by being a specific breed does not mean all of them are BAD! Besides, WHAT is a pit bull? Is it an American Staffordshire Terrier, a Staffordshire Terrier, a Bull Terrier, a Boston Terrier? etc etc.... So many dogs are mis-identified to be "pit bulls" that aren't.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've known of 3 in our area that have been put down from of vicious attacks. Another one was put down at the owners request because of how mean it was.

I'm not saying because of a specific breed all of them are bad.

No need for tempers to flare.

"Known of" and "Knowing" are two different things. Did you personally know ANY American Stafforshire terriers, Bull Terriers, Stafforshire Terriers, or Boston Terriers? Know OF them and knowing them personally is not the same.

 

[EsmeraldaX]

Originally posted by AirForceRocks
OK, this is what I'm missing - how are the owners of pit bulls being punished?

See my post below.

You are now required to muzzle your dog in public. A good muzzle costs $$ and is not always the most comfortable experience for the dog. Otherwise, you can not take your dog out for a walk. Why should someone who knows how to restrain their dog, esp. when the dog is friendly and well trained as is my neice's dog, have to be told that THEY have to do this, yet someone with a golden retriever does not?

All Pit Bulls in Boston have to be spayed/neutered. So if you are a caring and honest breeder, who breeds pit bulls for a nice temperment, or for shows, and you have been living here your whole life, you now either have to move or discontinue breeding. Just because some idiots inbreed the same breed to be nasty. That is so disgustingly wrong that I can barely even think about it. The hope is probably that if they aren't bred, eventually the breed will be wiped out.

You have to have a beware of dog sign on your property. Other dog owners are not required to do this. I don't like that the government can just tell people with one type of pet that they HAVE to put a sign up. Either make all dog owners put up a sign, or don't make any. People can put a sign up if they want to.

Failure to comply will result in fines.

 

[DawnCt1]

Originally posted by gallaj0
Adding all this up, and throwing in no training, or bad training, and you have a potentially deadly animal.

And I hardly ever see any drug dealers signing up for obedience classes, why they can hardly discipline themselves.

 

[AirForceRocks]

Yes but what those statistics fail to mention is that the owners are often abusive, neglectful or refuse to get the dog the proper training to behave like normal dog owners do.

For statistical purposes, I would think that is pretty much irrelevant. I don't see this as being different than "punishing" people with pools or trampolines with higher insurance rates. When a significant number of people screw up, it costs everyone else in that category, whether they are screw-ups or not.

 

[dianeschlicht]

Originally posted by DawnCt1
I think that people's views of pill bulls are "skewed" by reality.

And the "reality" in our area is that far more Golden Retrievers are responsible for reported dog bites than ANY OTHER BREED. Does that mean THEY should be banned? No more than banning all caucasians, native Americans, Asians or what have you.