The Great 'Throwaway Room' Debate

[nugov2]

My point on other threads are how do you know this isn't what Disney wants and that it isn't a loophole. It would be very easy to make the perks end when you check out like EMH and parking, but they don't on this...why...it cost them nothing to give you a rolling 60 days with a 1 night stay, but gains them everything. A new person checks into the room/site after the throwaway guest leaves and starts giving WDW money, while the throwaway guest continues to stay at WDW b/c they were able to guarantee more rides and in turn they don't go down the road to another park and stay there giving the mouse their money. The people booking campsites and faking MB is the minority(I believe) and I do think Disney should add a charge for MB's after a certain number(maybe 6) to stop that, but like the article said this is a method the phone reps at Disney are encouraging. When I called to book my campsite for one night she told me that if I bought park tickets for longer than my stay I would have access to FP+ at 60 days for the length of my ticket and even explained the rolling method of booking. They want to upsell you on tickets and this is a reason for people to consider buying more ticket days.

Disney knows there is a core group of people who do not and will not ever stay on site, so they need to find a way to lock them in. They see what Universal has(unlimited FP with hotel stay) and that people will pay for a room they won't use to get it. They know they can't offer the same option b/c of the number of hotel rooms, so this is their way of getting a piece of that group who will pay for a room for perks even though they have zero desire to ever stay on site. I was always on site, but now that we have 3 kids...no way. Not worth it when I can have a 6bdrm with beautiful Disney theming with a private pool and resort pool/waterslide just minutes from the parks. If we spend our days at Disney we eat at Disney so b/c of this supposed "loophole" they now will get thousands more from my family. We are there for 9 days and are only doing 2 at Uni. Without the prebook we would do longer at Uni and then hit SW. We would probably only do MK, but now we are doing 5 days with hoppers. It is a win/win for Disney to offer this.

 

[strangebutspecial]

It does cost them and does not seem to be an intended use.

* Guests who would have paid to stay on site for longer than one night are shut out (if no other campsite is available)

* Ride capacity is adversely affected, creating a negative guest experience for those who choose to be honest.

* Abuse of the fastpass system creates more problems to be solved, also negatively impacting guest experience and costing the company more money and work hours.

* it creates a negative atmosphere within the community of park goers and fans.

All of these negatives eventually add up. I'm sure it's a hack that will eventually be closed. They're probably just trying to figure out the best way to do it.

 

[olwyngdh]

So renting a room when there's no way to use a pool is ok, but renting a room when there is no other way to get FP+ 60 days out is bad? Gotcha.

So I can rent a room to get FP+ at 60 days IF I also use the pool at that resort for a few hours?

You are being deliberately obtuse. Pay for one day room, get one day privileges vs pay for one day campsite, steal another 9 days privileges. Justify it all you want, it is still wrong and morally and ethically reprehensible. It is the picture of the sense of entitlement that so many people claim against SNAP and other welfare programs. People who do it are morally no different than people who get welfare benefits while working and getting paid under the table.

With the person who brought up the stay, cruise, stay situation, what would be wrong with making the FP+ reservations for the 1st stay at 60 days, and then going back and making the FP+ reservations for the second stay when that 60 day window opened?

 

[nugov2]

You are being deliberately obtuse. Pay for one day room, get one day privileges vs pay for one day campsite, steal another 9 days privileges. Justify it all you want, it is still wrong and morally and ethically reprehensible. It is the picture of the sense of entitlement that so many people claim against SNAP and other welfare programs. People who do it are morally no different than people who get welfare benefits while working and getting paid under the table.

With the person who brought up the stay, cruise, stay situation, what would be wrong with making the FP+ reservations for the 1st stay at 60 days, and then going back and making the FP+ reservations for the second stay when that 60 day window opened?

This situation of throwaway to me is more like subscribing for a free month trial. You sign up for Amazon Prime for one month for free knowing you will never pay for a subscription, but you know you are going to be buying a lot of items for Christmas on Amazon so it will benefit you to do the free trial. Or better yet Netflix for a month just to watch Orange is the New Black for free. Are you now stealing the streaming b/c you know you have no intention of ever paying for a subscription? Amazon/Netflix allows this b/c they hope people will see how great the benefits are and actually pay, Disney is maybe hoping you will see how great the perks are an actually stay on site to get the full benefits for length of ticket vs what they are offering now for a one night stay which is a watered down version with a one night stay. If it was a loophole it would be allowing full benefits for the cost of one night, it wouldn't change the benefits/perks after checkout. To compare something you have no idea if it is intentional or not to stealing or abusing the welfare system is no where in the same ballpark

 

[tjevans]

You are being deliberately obtuse. Pay for one day room, get one day privileges vs pay for one day campsite, steal another 9 days privileges. Justify it all you want, it is still wrong and morally and ethically reprehensible. It is the picture of the sense of entitlement that so many people claim against SNAP and other welfare programs. People who do it are morally no different than people who get welfare benefits while working and getting paid under the table.

With the person who brought up the stay, cruise, stay situation, what would be wrong with making the FP+ reservations for the 1st stay at 60 days, and then going back and making the FP+ reservations for the second stay when that 60 day window opened?

First, I agree it is morally wrong. My job often involves playing devil's advocate and attempting to define the distinction between a permissible activity and an impermissible activity, so I find this fun.

I could say you're being obtuse. You find a distinction between getting one benefit for yourself (pool and water park) when that's the only way you could obtain it and I see no difference between obtaining that benefit and obtaining the benefit of getting to reserve FP 60 days out. I take it back; I see two distinctions: (1) it benefits you in the first instance and someone else in the second, and (2) the length of time a benefit is made available to someone who rented a room. I don't think either of those distinctions is valid.

You call it obtuse. I call it attempting to define where the distinction between permissible and impermissible is. To you, renting a room to obtain a benefit for less than a day is ok. Renting a room to obtain a benefit for more than a day is bad. To me, they are equally bad.

Either something is wrong, no matter the degree, or it is not wrong. There is no in-between.

 

[PainInIL]

The problem is, they aren't paying--they are reserving a campsite (at lower cost than any room on site) for one night, adding a bunch of false names and getting the "free" magic bands along with free parking, and then taking the magic bands into the park and somehow using them to make additional same-day fastpasses. So a family of 4 has 5 additional magic bands that they didn't pay for that they are using to get an additional 15 fast passes without having to use the three each that they booked at 60 days instead of 30. So Disney is out the cost of those 5 magic bands that have no tickets attached, at least 2 days of parking fees, and can't rent the site to someone who really wants it, and you are out the ability to book same day fastpasses once your three are used because these people took 15 of them at park opening.

As far as I know that is not how this works at all. I believe you only get Magic Bands and Fast Pass privileges when you purchase park tickets. So if you wanted to buy 10 7 day tickets, then yes, you could have multiple fast passes. But Disney would love that extra revenue and would have no issue with people buying a park ticket just to have additional fast pass reservations.

 

[MaryLovesPoohBear]

I like it too. In one, the regulating authority made the loophole illegal. In the other, the regulating authority (Disney), is aware of the problem and chooses to do nothing.

The regulating authority eventually made the loophole illegal. It hasn't always been illegal. And even once it was, the authority had to figure out a way to enforce the rule.

I believe that Disney will eventually figure out how to close the loophole. But they will want to figure out a fix that doesn't hurt their real on site guests in the process.

What if, at midnight on the night of the throwaway stay, if no one has checked in to the room, any subsequent fastpasses on those magic bands just disappear? Call it the Pumpkin Rule.

Oh, now that would work. Unless the park was open later.

 

[olwyngdh]

First, I agree it is morally wrong. My job often involves playing devil's advocate and attempting to define the distinction between a permissible activity and an impermissible activity, so I find this fun.

I could say you're being obtuse. You find a distinction between getting one benefit for yourself (pool and water park) when that's the only way you could obtain it and I see no difference between obtaining that benefit and obtaining the benefit of getting to reserve FP 60 days out. I take it back; I see two distinctions: (1) it benefits you in the first instance and someone else in the second, and (2) the length of time a benefit is made available to someone who rented a room. I don't think either of those distinctions is valid.

You call it obtuse. I call it attempting to define where the distinction between permissible and impermissible is. To you, renting a room to obtain a benefit for less than a day is ok. Renting a room to obtain a benefit for more than a day is bad. To me, they are equally bad.

Either something is wrong, no matter the degree, or it is not wrong. There is no in-between.

The difference is in paying for one days benefits and using one days benefits, and paying for one days benefits and using those benefits for 10 days. One you have paid for, the other you haven't. If the throwaway rooms allowed the 180 dining reservations and the FP+ reservations for that day *only*, it wouldn't be wrong or abusive. The way people are using it is because they are paying for one day and stealing an additional nine. (Oh, and I get the whole devil's advocate thing and understand where you are coming from much better now.)

 

[Idaholion]

OK, I have a question that is peripherally related to your debate. I have reservations at Grand Floridian on Feb 28 using DVC points. Then I go on Disney cruise for a week. Then I come back, stay at Grand Floridian for March 7-11, having to change rooms once to Contemporary for 1 day, and then back to Grand Floridian, all reserved with DVC points. (Didn't reserve in time to get 1 room villa at GF through the whole time) I am buying a 5 day pass. Sort of like your throwaway room debate, but I am actually on Disney property (if you include the cruise room) from the 28th all the way till the 11th. So I actually have "room checkouts" on March 1, March 8, March 9 and March 11. So until I get lucky on my waitlists, I am in a bit of a pickle. I could actually tie up some of my DVC points, make a "reservation" from the 28th all the way to the 11th, make FP+ reservations, cancel my long reservation and transfer my FP+ reservation to my existing Feb 28 room number. Is that allowed? I hate gaming the system, but I hate being stuck juggling things because I am trying to make changes in room reservations. What are the rules with transferring FP+ reservations from one Room Reservation to another? How do they handle "gaps" in the reservation time?

 

[MaryLovesPoohBear]

OK, I have a question that is peripherally related to your debate. I have reservations at Grand Floridian on Feb 28 using DVC points. Then I go on Disney cruise for a week. Then I come back, stay at Grand Floridian for March 7-11, having to change rooms once to Contemporary for 1 day, and then back to Grand Floridian, all reserved with DVC points. (Didn't reserve in time to get 1 room villa at GF through the whole time) I am buying a 5 day pass. Sort of like your throwaway room debate, but I am actually on Disney property (if you include the cruise room) from the 28th all the way till the 11th. So I actually have "room checkouts" on March 1, March 8, March 9 and March 11. So until I get lucky on my waitlists, I am in a bit of a pickle. I could actually tie up some of my DVC points, make a "reservation" from the 28th all the way to the 11th, make FP+ reservations, cancel my long reservation and transfer my FP+ reservation to my existing Feb 28 room number. Is that allowed? I hate gaming the system, but I hate being stuck juggling things because I am trying to make changes in room reservations. What are the rules with transferring FP+ reservations from one Room Reservation to another? How do they handle "gaps" in the reservation time?

Your fastpass+ is attached to your tickets, not your room.

You don't seem to be gaming the system. You are staying on Disney property for the entirety of your stay. You are simply doing what is called a "split stay." There is nothing wrong with what you are doing.

A throwaway room is when someone books a room, or more likely a cheap campsite, and never checks in. (Some people do it, and cancel at the last minute.) They do this to claim being "on site" and to receive the on site benefits. But they have a room, off site, where they are actually staying. By doing this they receive free Magic Bands, 60 day booking window for Fastpass+, free parking at the parks, and 180+10 booking for dining.

 

[tjevans]

The difference is in paying for one days benefits and using one days benefits, and paying for one days benefits and using those benefits for 10 days. One you have paid for, the other you haven't. If the throwaway rooms allowed the 180 dining reservations and the FP+ reservations for that day *only*, it wouldn't be wrong or abusive. The way people are using it is because they are paying for one day and stealing an additional nine. (Oh, and I get the whole devil's advocate thing and understand where you are coming from much better now.)

I think a distinction could still be made, but one of my many flaws is not knowing when to stop beating a dead horse. So, I'm gonna shut up now.

 

[Bilge Rat]

Interesting.

 

[Idaholion]

So, what about the 60 day reservation window? If my FP+ is attached to my ticket, not my room, don't DVC members get a room reservation with DVC points, make FP+ reservations 60 days early, then just cancel the reservation? if you cancel your reservation, what happens to your FP+ reservations? I was told you have 24 hours from canceling a room reservation to link the FP+ reservations to another room reservation. True? If you have a 6 day room reservation, and make FP+ reservations for the whole time, then cancel 5 days of the reservation, what happens to the FP+ reservation?
Like I say, I don't want to "overly game" the situation, but I don't want to be a chump either.

Your fastpass+ is attached to your tickets, not your room.

You don't seem to be gaming the system. You are staying on Disney property for the entirety of your stay. You are simply doing what is called a "split stay." There is nothing wrong with what you are doing.

A throwaway room is when someone books a room, or more likely a cheap campsite, and never checks in. (Some people do it, and cancel at the last minute.) They do this to claim being "on site" and to receive the on site benefits. But they have a room, off site, where they are actually staying. By doing this they receive free Magic Bands, 60 day booking window for Fastpass+, free parking at the parks, and 180+10 booking for dining.

 

[Stinkerbell1973]

What most people seem to be missing is that Disney *is* losing money with throwaway rooms.

If you stay offsite and book a campsite to get the perks, then I cannot stay in that campsite. You are going into the parks and spending money (a LOT of money... On tickets, food, souvenirs, etc.). But I cannot go to Disney because my (empty) campsite has been booked -- but not used -- by you. So Disney does not get my thousands of dollars. And yes, after you add it all up, it * is* thousands of dollars.

Now if you stay offsite because you want that bargain rate, but don't book that throwaway room, I can book my campsite and we both spend A LOT of money at Disney.

Get it? Yes, booking a throwaway room is gaming the system.

This.

My husband travels a TON for work. When we go on vacation, he likes to go in our RV as it's the closest to home he gets and he is able to sleep in his own bed. When we go to WDW for more than 2 nights, we stay at FW. So when I can't extend my vacation by a night, or string together a straight 5 to 7 days (meaning, I can get 5 days but not simultaneously...I may get Sat/Sun then Tues, then Thurs/Fri) because someone has used the sites as a 'throwaway' room, they are taking away from my ability to enjoy a vacation since they are tying up a site and not using it.
We were at FW back in September. Some friends of ours wanted to extend their stay by one night and couldn't. DRC told them FW was booked. They were staying in the same loop as us (500). The day they checked out, the loop was more than 50% available overnight. Many loops had a lot of open space (we noticed coming back from the pool). How is a campground 'BOOKED' when one of the loops is more than 50% open? Because of throwaway rooms.

 

[MaryLovesPoohBear]

So, what about the 60 day reservation window? If my FP+ is attached to my ticket, not my room, don't DVC members get a room reservation with DVC points, make FP+ reservations 60 days early, then just cancel the reservation? if you cancel your reservation, what happens to your FP+ reservations? I was told you have 24 hours from canceling a room reservation to link the FP+ reservations to another room reservation. True? If you have a 6 day room reservation, and make FP+ reservations for the whole time, then cancel 5 days of the reservation, what happens to the FP+ reservation?
Like I say, I don't want to "overly game" the situation, but I don't want to be a chump either.

I just joined DVC, so I don't know much about the ins and outs of changing your reservation while using points.

But I do know that if you have a ticket AND a reservation, you can book fastpasses 60 days out. If you only have tickets, you can only book 30 days out. The extra 30 days is a benefit for on site guests.

What should happen is that if you cancel, your fastpasses should also be cancelled. But I don't know what actually happens.

For you, it sounds like you will be an on site guest for your entire stay. That means you are not gaming the system in any way.

 

[k5jm]

This has become another refillable mug debate. This has really come to the light as a byproduct of Fastpass+. The loophole has been around for years and only gave free parking perks, extra magic hours, and dining reservations to the folks that did this. FP+ has really made this bubble to the surface again and given the loophole a new dynamic. If WDW had done nothing about this in the past, it is unlikely that anything will be done now.

 

[tcrandal]

I think people need to find real problems to solve instead of worrying about something so minor.

The entire campground could be sold out to throwaway rooms and the amount of time that it has the potential to impact you is less than the time you spent typing responses on this thread.

 

[MaryLovesPoohBear]

I think people need to find real problems to solve instead of worrying about something so minor.

The entire campground could be sold out to throwaway rooms and the amount of time that it has the potential to impact you is less than the time you spent typing responses on this thread.

Unless of course someone here wants to camp at Disney.

Because then of course, they can't even stay at Disney.

 

[DisneyKevin]

Unless of course someone here wants to camp at Disney.

Because then of course, they can't even stay at Disney.

They could if they made their reservation first.

 

[DisneyKevin]

I would not expect a quick resolution on this.

It took Disney how long to change the refillable mug policy?

If Disney sees this as an issue, they will fix it.

If it's not fixed quickly, they don't see it as a problem.