The Future of Fast Pass Plus

[Suvadoo]

I had a client who went recently to disney world. I had tried to give her advice before her trip about making ride reservations and things but she just didn't get it. She did NO research at all. When I asked her about her trip and what she rode I went through my favorites. Did you ride Peter Pan? No. Did you ride HM? No. Splash mountain? No. Pirates? No Of course being an uber fan I'm really irritated at this point.

They rode the magic carpets.....jungle cruise....and buzz lightyear. That's it! This is the average guest people I'm telling you!!

Did she enjoy herself? Was she disappointed or satisfied with her trip? And would she go back?

 

[BigAlsGal]

Did she enjoy herself? Was she disappointed or satisfied with her trip? And would she go back?

No she was very irritated with Disney. They wouldn't let her go into Epcot to take advantage of her ADR. She didn't know she needed valid theme park admission to be able to access the restaurant. After yelling at them for having such a ridiculous rule they allowed her to cancel her reservation without penalty. I laughed inside.

Average guest.

 

[magicbob]

Really not sure how to answer this. Do I think the newbies will remain blissfully unaware? Yes. Do the uber users have their quota reduced? Yes. Who does this benefit? The average guest who is blissfully unaware in the standby line. Why does this system benefit them? Because uber users aren't jumping in front over and over again. I believe for a lot of rides (A&E mine train being the exception) there are lots of unused FP+ slots. These are distributed through shorter standby.

I had a client who went recently to disney world. I had tried to give her advice before her trip about making ride reservations and things but she just didn't get it. She did NO research at all. When I asked her about her trip and what she rode I went through my favorites. Did you ride Peter Pan? No. Did you ride HM? No. Splash mountain? No. Pirates? No Of course being an uber fan I'm really irritated at this point.

They rode the magic carpets.....jungle cruise....and buzz lightyear. That's it! This is the average guest people I'm telling you!!

I agree that the "average" guest may see a marginal improvement in the SB line. But as I've said for a long time, spreading the benefit thinly among thousands has less impact than the old "unfair" system of fewer people reaping a larger benefit.

If the SB wait decreases for all guests from 65 minutes to 60 minutes because of fewer FP holders "cutting" in front of them, the difference is barely noticable for that "average" guest. They are still waiting an hour for a ride and that will still be perceived as a long wait. But in order to reduce everyone's wait by 5 minutes, Disney had to take away the perk of waiting only 5-10 minutes for that ride from a lot of people who can no longer get a FP for it.

IMHO, this results in disappointing a lot of people without providing a significant improvement for the beneficiaries of the change. If I truly believed that the vast majority of guests would be coming away from their vacations having experienced a huge improvement, then I would not be as skeptical about the "sacrifice" others made to facilitate it. But it seems like those who maximized FP usage experience the negative impact of having fewer FPs, while there's no significant payoff of other guests having a markedly improved experience to offset that. At the risk of sounding too political, that's how re-distribution always works. You have to take a lot from those who have it in order to spread the wealth to the masses. But because the masses are massive, the resulting token pittance that each receives doesn't make a hill of beans difference in their lives.

Basically, Disney is rationing the "pixie dust" (i.e., SOME people experiencing a much shorter wait) in favor of "fairness" and "sameness" where everyone gets a SLIGHTLY shorter wait... it's still an hour-long line but, hey, we saved you 5 minutes!

 

[magicbob]

Now that you rewrite this I remembered you shared your continent change a while back. And I SHOULD have remembered DCL not there til 2015.

How lovely to experience these places. I would LOVE to visit Israel, DLP & take your cruise! Have a wonderful trip. The Constellation sounds amazing!!!

I don't mean this in the "if you don't like FP+ then vacation somewhere else!" context. But there really are countless wonderful other places to see in the world. Even if we didn't have DLP close by, visiting these other countries has more than made up for not having a WDW vacation. And there's the added consolation that we're not there during all of the growing pains that WDW is experiencing right now.

When we DO get back to Florida, enough time will have passed that the kinks should be worked out of new systems, the frenzy over the Mine train (and Hogwart's train) should have died down some, and it (hopefully) won't still be a guessing game over what will change tomorrow and having to re-learn everything I ever knew about trip planning yet again.

 

[magicbob]

But, again, we are talking about SIGNIFICANT issues that many guests have faced. Not some little blip. I would maintain that the system IS flawed when it is as unreliable as reports indicate. But unless you've been one of the unlucky ones, those reports are obviously exaggerated. And it didn't happen to me, so what do I care? Vacations aren't PERFECT after all.

I guess one thing I should add is that I very much like to see positive reports emerging. These give me hope that the kinks are gradually getting worked out of the system. I truly hope that, by the time my next WDW visit rolls around, we have stopped seeing reports of lost FPs, tickets, inability to enter rooms or parks with MBs, etc. But I have a great amount of sympathy for those who have been "burned" by glitches in the new technology and those reports are a bit worrisome because these things could happen to any of us. Sure, my life will not be over if my (measly) three FPs are lost. But it would have a pretty big negative impact on my vacation if I'm stuck standing in Guest Relations lines for hours and can't even get into the park. I maintain that WDW still has some work to do in order to avoid guests experiencing these issues.

 

[dkrauss]

I had a client who went recently to disney world. I had tried to give her advice before her trip about making ride reservations and things but she just didn't get it. She did NO research at all.

Interesting info here...without getting into the whole "it requires to much planning to go to WDW thing ....do you feel Disney is doing a bad job of making newbees aware of the planning that needs to be done.......? Do newbees bare some responsibility for not listening to more experienced resort goers?..........as in the scenario you explained.

Doug

 

[NYDisGuy]

I don't look at FP+ as being free. I think every park goer is paying for it. Disney has it built into the price of admission. When Disney decides an additional price increase will cause too much of a backlash, FP+ will be offered at an additional surcharge. Similar to the way airlines are now charging for checked baggage.

That's a hypothetical argument. The fact of the matter is, you pay for admission. There is no value set on FP+, it's a benefit that is part of everyone's park ticket. Whether you use it or not, it does not change the price that you are charged.

 

[NYDisGuy]

Set the monetary aside for a second.

When WDW says "You can reserve your spot on no less than 3 attractions per day with minimal wait time" what exactly are your expectations in regards to that statement in terms of:

1. Availability
2. Reliability
3. Convenience
4. Cost

I ask because it seems the arguments in defense of FP+ failures seem to suggest that none of those things are relevant.

In other words, you throw the dice and accept the outcome.

Availability, just like FP, will always be limited based on guests. If anything, it makes it easier for people to get autographs and to know when to go on top tier rides instead of getting a FP for 6 hours later like the old system. Alot of people like to gravitate to the rope drop scenario but many guests weren't sprinting around the park getting fast passes. I'm personally glad that system is done with.

Reliability will be known more down the line. The system is new and kinks are to be expected. There does seem to be a trend though that people who lose their fastpasses are changing their reservation or tinkering too much. Perhaps that's the issue that needs to be addressed.

Convenience is subjective. Some people will love FP+ and the app and some people will want the old system.

Cost is not a factor here.

 

[AmyB2006]

Do you feel Disney is doing a bad job of making newbees aware of the planning that needs to be done.......? Do newbees bare some responsibility for not listening to more experienced resort goers?

Doug

I know you didn't pose this to me, but anyway... Yes I feel Disney is doing a bad job of making newbies aware. But, otoh, what else are they to do? They have commercials, they send out those little magnets with all your planning dates on it, and the MDE website has the main page with FP+ all over it.

But yet, I still talk to people that are new to Disney and yet have no clue about any of this stuff. So I don't know. I have to wonder how those people are buying their tickets/package. Are they doing it over the phone? If so, that CM should be telling them what is available and how to create and link their reservations in MDE.

If they're doing it online, then they must have some type of computer sense. But maybe a lot of people just think, "oh, we don't need to do that, we'll just wing it".

Some people just aren't computer savvy and don't know what to do. Like my parents for instance. If it weren't for me planning everything out, my parents would be lost. Completely.

 

[averill94]

I am looking forward to testing it out in a few weeks!!! At the same time, when I set ours up it felt funny. I have always been the FP person of our group without any issues. For some reason FP+ feels weird booking.

 

[Suvadoo]

I know you didn't pose this to me, but anyway... Yes I feel Disney is doing a bad job of making newbies aware. But, otoh, what else are they to do? They have commercials, they send out those little magnets with all your planning dates on it, and the MDE website has the main page with FP+ all over it.

But yet, I still talk to people that are new to Disney and yet have no clue about any of this stuff. So I don't know. I have to wonder how those people are buying their tickets/package. Are they doing it over the phone? If so, that CM should be telling them what is available and how to create and link their reservations in MDE.

If they're doing it online, then they must have some type of computer sense. But maybe a lot of people just think, "oh, we don't need to do that, we'll just wing it".

Some people just aren't computer savvy and don't know what to do. Like my parents for instance. If it weren't for me planning everything out, my parents would be lost. Completely.

I booked my first WDW vacation over the phone several years ago and quickly discovered that the CM's would only answer the questions you asked without volunteering any additional information. I don't know if this is still the case.

I've also noticed that a lot of my family and friends who are planning WDW vacations, will ignore my suggestions about making reservations and visiting websites for more trip planning info.

In a lot of cases, people just can't imagine a visit to an ammusement park would require this amount of planning. Also, Disney advertises reserving from your recliner, but they don't tell you that their parks are crowded and you need reservations to avoid long lines.

 

[surferdave]

I know you didn't pose this to me, but anyway... Yes I feel Disney is doing a bad job of making newbies aware. But, otoh, what else are they to do? They have commercials, they send out those little magnets with all your planning dates on it, and the MDE website has the main page with FP+ all over it.

But yet, I still talk to people that are new to Disney and yet have no clue about any of this stuff. So I don't know. I have to wonder how those people are buying their tickets/package. Are they doing it over the phone? If so, that CM should be telling them what is available and how to create and link their reservations in MDE.

If they're doing it online, then they must have some type of computer sense. But maybe a lot of people just think, "oh, we don't need to do that, we'll just wing it".

Some people just aren't computer savvy and don't know what to do. Like my parents for instance. If it weren't for me planning everything out, my parents would be lost. Completely.

Sometimes something that's unexpected is just hard to see, like the way drivers can look right at a motorcycle in traffic and plow right into it because they are only conditioned to look for cars. People generally think that once they have a ticket to a show, event or activity then they can just show up, especially if it's always been true.

 

[dkrauss]

I've also noticed that a lot of my family and friends who are planning WDW vacations, will ignore my suggestions about making reservations and visiting websites for more trip planning info.
.

I agree with what you wrote......what is interesting is that "you" and experienced WDW person, offered advise and it went unheeded. I'm pretty much the WDW freak in my office and I've talked about the planning issue with many folks here who are relatively new at the 'updated planning" situation..........most listened and acted on what I explained with their own tweaks here and there. There were scenarios they had that I wasn't sure of........some panned out.......and some were just panned

Sometimes something that's unexpected is just hard to see, like the way drivers can look right at a motorcycle in traffic and plow right into it because they are only conditioned to look for cars. People generally think that once they have a ticket to a show, event or activity then they can just show up, especially if it's always been true.

Excellent analogy! We visited Epcot, spur of the moment back in 2010..............we arrived at Noon......on a Thursday in March. Got right on to Test Track (single rider).........waited for about an hour for Malestrom (not worth it IMHO). Couldn't get into a TS restaurant for lunch so had a slice of pizza in Italy for lunch..........but never came close to getting on Soar'in......wait was more than 2hours. You can just "show up"........we've done it! However, this wasn't the MK.......lot more to just kinda take in at Epcot........plus this trip wasn't a full-out WDW vacation just a day trip............so I guess its all about perspective.

Doug

 

[surferdave]

Excellent analogy! We visited Epcot, spur of the moment back in 2010..............we arrived at Noon......on a Thursday in March. Got right on to Test Track (single rider).........waited for about an hour for Malestrom (not worth it IMHO). Couldn't get into a TS restaurant for lunch so had a slice of pizza in Italy for lunch..........but never came close to getting on Soar'in......wait was more than 2hours. You can just "show up"........we've done it! However, this wasn't the MK.......lot more to just kinda take in at Epcot........plus this trip wasn't a full-out WDW vacation just a day trip............so I guess its all about perspective.

Doug

I don't know what you're saying here, but I'm not supporting your position with my analogy. Disney should not have expected even a moderate percentage of their guests to buy in to the notion of planning their day on vacation like a day at work.

 

[Suvadoo]

I don't know what you're saying here, but I'm not supporting your position with my analogy. Disney should not have expected even a moderate percentage of their guests to buy in to the notion of planning their day on vacation like a day at work.

Exactly, this is way too much work and not enough benefit. It would've been smarter to invest in new attractions to handle the increased crowds. I hope disney's next CEO views the theme parks as something more than an ATM machine!

 

[BigAlsGal]

Interesting info here...without getting into the whole "it requires to much planning to go to WDW thing ....do you feel Disney is doing a bad job of making newbees aware of the planning that needs to be done.......? Do newbees bare some responsibility for not listening to more experienced resort goers?..........as in the scenario you explained.

Doug

No I think they're doing as much as they can do without actually calling your house and saying. "Hello I'm going to make ride reservations FOR you." I got all kinds of things giving me little reminders. A magnet, a thumb drive, pamphlets, emails. I mean how many more things could they possibly send?

Even in the resorts they have Stacy talking everybodies ears off about it. I just think the again average guest isn't going to do all these things. It just doesn't register as important. "It's a theme park, you go stand in line. This is all I need to know." Seems to be the song of the newbie only to get there and realize disney is on a whole other level. I'm sure it's a slap in the face. Just the immenseness of it all.

The only other thing disney could do is put out a warning. "Please be avised. If you don't make these selections you're gonna be mad at us!!" . I don't think they'll take it to that level though.

 

[mom2rtk]

No I think they're doing as much as they can do without actually calling your house and saying. "Hello I'm going to make ride reservations FOR you." I got all kinds of things giving me little reminders. A magnet, a thumb drive, pamphlets, emails. I mean how many more things could they possibly send?

Even in the resorts they have Stacy talking everybodies ears off about it. I just think the again average guest isn't going to do all these things. It just doesn't register as important. "It's a theme park, you go stand in line. This is all I need to know." Seems to be the song of the newbie only to get there and realize disney is on a whole other level. I'm sure it's a slap in the face. Just the immenseness of it all.

The only other thing disney could do is put out a warning. "Please be avised. If you don't make these selections you're gonna be mad at us!!" . I don't think they'll take it to that level though.

People can hear all of that. But honestly it's hard to wrap your brain around the fact that you NEED to do that to access the rides you hear so much about. To some, it's just unbelievable, too hard to process. Their brains likely see it all and justify it all away with various explanations like 1) that must be what they do in the busy season or 2) that must be what the crazy uber super duper users do. But not that it must be what the average park goer must do just to ride an amusement park ride. Surely not.

That is what Surferdave's analogy was about.

 

[BigAlsGal]

I agree that the "average" guest may see a marginal improvement in the SB line. But as I've said for a long time, spreading the benefit thinly among thousands has less impact than the old "unfair" system of fewer people reaping a larger benefit.

If the SB wait decreases for all guests from 65 minutes to 60 minutes because of fewer FP holders "cutting" in front of them, the difference is barely noticable for that "average" guest. They are still waiting an hour for a ride and that will still be perceived as a long wait. But in order to reduce everyone's wait by 5 minutes, Disney had to take away the perk of waiting only 5-10 minutes for that ride from a lot of people who can no longer get a FP for it.

IMHO, this results in disappointing a lot of people without providing a significant improvement for the beneficiaries of the change. If I truly believed that the vast majority of guests would be coming away from their vacations having experienced a huge improvement, then I would not be as skeptical about the "sacrifice" others made to facilitate it. But it seems like those who maximized FP usage experience the negative impact of having fewer FPs, while there's no significant payoff of other guests having a markedly improved experience to offset that. At the risk of sounding too political, that's how re-distribution always works. You have to take a lot from those who have it in order to spread the wealth to the masses. But because the masses are massive, the resulting token pittance that each receives doesn't make a hill of beans difference in their lives.

Basically, Disney is rationing the "pixie dust" (i.e., SOME people experiencing a much shorter wait) in favor of "fairness" and "sameness" where everyone gets a SLIGHTLY shorter wait... it's still an hour-long line but, hey, we saved you 5 minutes!

And I completely get that. I do. If you think about it though. If you're not cutting in front then who does it go to? The family that's stood in line and maybe has never ridden that ride before. Did it only shave 10 minutes off their wait? Sure. That doesn't seem like much but if you shave 10 minutes out of every line they stand in they might get to ride 1-2 more rides than normal. For the first time/rare goer that's a big deal. I think its a bigger deal than uber guest getting to ride every ride in the park twice.

Also if you take into account ride capacity. If there's less FP people cutting that just means MORE non planners/not in the know people are riding the ride. As a planner and uber goer I can tell you it isn't ME standing in those lines. . If say 1000 more standby people experienced the ride than before. Well....I'm not sure how that's bad business by disney.

 

[dkrauss]

I don't know what you're saying here, but I'm not supporting your position with my analogy. Disney should not have expected even a moderate percentage of their guests to buy in to the notion of planning their day on vacation like a day at work.

Ok........so we don't understand each other. Where do you get your information that "not even a moderate % of their guests" are buying in? Where are those statistics? You'll say most who you speak with don't..........and I'll say the opposite.......but neither of us know the actual figure. You're speculating................IMO using the feedback on the boards doesn't tell the story because most here are "hardcore" Disney folks with opinions they're very willing to espouse. Both pro and con...........

Doug

 

[BigAlsGal]

People can hear all of that. But honestly it's hard to wrap your brain around the fact that you NEED to do that to access the rides you hear so much about. To some, it's just unbelievable, too hard to process. Their brains likely see it all and justify it all away with various explanations like 1) that must be what they do in the busy season or 2) that must be what the crazy uber super duper users do. But not that it must be what the average park goer must do just to ride an amusement park ride. Surely not.

That is what Surferdave's analogy was about.

Not sure what you're saying lol. I'm on the side of the average guest will not make any extra efforts. I'm also on the side that disney does pretty much all they can to get across the resources they offer to have faster access to the attractions. It's the whole lead a horse to water thing.

Since we all love analogies let's use that one. They are the horses who won't drink. Before with old FP we were the horses that were like "We ain't stupid. Were drinking it up!!" Now with FP+ disney is saying "yes we know you uber users know how to drink the water. We need to pump the breaks on your water drinkage and leave some water for the ignorant horses."

Whether it be less FP users ahead of them or they actually make a reservation. Both scenarios are to their advantage. One just less obvious than the other.