The FP+ Gripe

[Rosanne]

And I'm 100% certain that several Disboard regulars will find it practically perfect in every way.

Love the Mary Poppins reference

 

[mbrittb00]

Scheduling FP 60 days in advance is an option but not a requirement of FP+.

True it isn't a requirement, but consider that every day that passed (after the 60 day advance window opens) the options will become more and more picked over until there isn't anything left except for "C", "B" and "A" ticket attractions. I would summize that it will get to that point sometime between a few hours to a few days (depending on the season).

Declaring that spontaneity is compromised is to assume that stand by lines will be too long or that in park FP will not be available for the attraction you want. Today you get a paper FP from a machine that requires a specific return timeframe, with FP+ you waive a band in front of a kiosk (or use an app on your phone) and pick an attraction and time that works for you. This doesn't seem to compromise any flexibility to me.

If the FP+ system were simply the FP- system except electronically, then I would agree with you. However, there is very little doubt that spontaneity will be compromised a lot. Consider that in order to get the attractions (and possibly times) that you want to use for your FP+ selections, you will need to make those reservations as far in advance as possible. Good luck changing those to attractions at a different park the day of, and get what you want.

Any concern about FP not being available while at the park is because some people pretend to know how many FP disney will give per attraction and then further guess how many of those will be reserved in advance, and how many of those with a reserved FP will actually show up. Disney doesn't even know this equation yet so I don't think Dis posters do.

Not exactly. Sure there are some assumptions that are made, but there is a lot of actual data to draw from as well. For many rides it is fairly easy to calculate the number of riders that the attraction can handle in one day.

For instance, Soarin'.

• 2 Theaters (operate independent)
• Each theater holds 87 people
• Each show is approximately 5 minutes long
• Allow 1 minute for unload, load, seat-belt check, etc

With a little bit of math we see that the hourly ride capacity is 1740 people. Multiply that over a 12 hour day (9am-9pm) and you have a total capacity of just under 21k people. The same type of calculations can be made for Mission Space and Test Track yielding 21k plus or minus for each. So for an entire day at Epcot the total number of riders that can ride the three highliners is 63k.

If we make an assumption that 80% of the ride capacity is allocated to FPs (There is no OFFICIAL word from Disney on this (obviously), but it is the number that is often thrown around and if the percentage is lower than this problem I am about to describe gets even worse). That gives a total number of FPs available to be 50,400.

Park capacity for Epcot is approximately 50k. Again not officially from Disney, but this is generally accepted to be true. Now let's assume that the park is only about 75% of capacity. And of those that show up only 50% want to ride all three of the headliners. This would mean that ~18,750 people would want FP+ for all three attractions taking up 56,250 of the available 50,400 FPs available. This also leads to day of flexibility being almost nil. Note, it is possible that Disney will restrict you from only being able to select one of the three headliners, but that opens up a whole new set of complaints.

A very similar analysis an problem can be made with Hollywood Studios and Animal Kingdom. Since the Magic Kingdom has a lot more Fast Pass (necessary) attractions, it is the one park where I think this system could actually work.

Now the one flaw in my analysis is a assumption that most people will plan their FP+ attractions weeks (or at least days) in advance.

I am holding final judgement until the system fully rolls out, but with the information that is at hand, I see lots of potential problems.

 

[mbrittb00]

ere has this been stated? I'm not saying you're wrong, I've just seen it mentioned several times, but only ever on this board. How do we "know" this?

It was in the T&C that Disney accidentally posted then later scrubbed from the internet.

 

[fabulousfive]

This article from Micechat provides a couple of ideas about this topic.

1. The author says that Disney is re-creating its business plan, and that is causing negative feedback.

2. This new business plan is similar to the wildly popular Disney Cruises. Where everything is planned and included.

I do think it is a major shift in philosophy, and more than just a technology gadget.

I like this article & how it compares the new direction to DCL. It seems true, makes sense, and is quite interesting.

 

[Robo]

Let me see...

It's OK to like FP+ if you don't have enough info about it to dislike it.

It's NOT OK to dislike FP+ if you don't have enough info about it to like it.


Just trying to keep things straight.

 

[Rosanne]

Let me see...

It's OK to like FP+ if you don't have enough info about it to dislike it.

It's NOT OK to dislike FP+ if you don't have enough info about it to like it.


Just trying to keep things straight.

 

[bcrook]

It was in the T&C that Disney accidentally posted then later scrubbed from the internet.

Welcome back! The T&C are still there.

 

[closetmickey]

In a lot of ways I agree with you. I (being the runner) would welcome something that would cut down the amount if "running" I have to do.

However, you are making the assumption that you will be able to schedule you 3 fast passes for any attractions you wish. The testing to date suggests that your three fast passes will be selected in 3 separate categories, with only one being an E-ticket level attraction. Would you be as happy with a system where you could only pre-book 1 of your favorites and had to wait in line for the other 2.

2) will the 3 advanced FP+ selections be split into three tiered categories (with only one being available for an E-ticket level attraction

.

At least for now, this does not appear to be the case at all. For example, for an evening that we are planning to hop to HS, I was able to book ToT, RnRC, and TSMM. All back to back before our 8:00 ADR.

 

[Silock]

I like planning to go to Disney World, but I dislike the idea of losing a spontaneous FP. What if I don't feel like getting up one day, for whatever reason? Then, I miss my scheduled FP, whereas before, I could just show up later, FP it at the park and go about my day. That may not be possible any longer, and that's what's upsetting.

 

[TIME4DIZ]

Let me see...

It's OK to like FP+ if you don't have enough info about it to dislike it.

It's NOT OK to dislike FP+ if you don't have enough info about it to like it.


Just trying to keep things straight.

I'm sure this was meant with sarcasm but it is just about right. Most are taught at a young age to not judge prematurely (try something before your say you don't like it). In the case of FP+ I'd suggest trying it before deciding you like it or dislike.
And nobody is saying its NOT OK to dislike it whenever you chose to make the decision. Haters are going to hate, no need to rely on experience, facts or evidence.

 

[Silock]

I'm sure this was meant with sarcasm but it is just about right. Most are taught at a young age to not judge prematurely (try something before your say you don't like it). In the case of FP+ I'd suggest trying it before deciding you like it or dislike.
And nobody is saying its NOT OK to dislike it whenever you chose to make the decision. Haters are going to hate, no need to rely on experience, facts or evidence.

I'm not trying to be snarky, but I don't have to try it to know that I don't want to plan my vacation details that far in advance. I don't even do ADRs.

 

[TIME4DIZ]

I'm not trying to be snarky, but I don't have to try it to know that I don't want to plan my vacation details that far in advance. I don't even do ADRs.

You don't have to do FP+ in advance.

 

[Silock]

You don't have to do FP+ in advance.

Maybe not for every ride, but the good ones at convenient times? Especially when there's no longer a regular FP option and EVERYONE has to do it?

 

[momof2n2]

I think you are stretching this adage a bit.

I have never done MDE or FP+ before; you are right. But I'm sure I will not like being limited to three as I have never limited myself to three. Others are saying they are concerned about Disney's IT capabilities because they've seen the flaws in the system.

Some of our gripes, while not coming from THIS experience, are based on past personal histories.

It's not exactly the same as judging a book by its cover.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

Based on what we know so far, the FP+ experience will only improve WDW touring for one small subset of visitors - that subset being those who are willing and able to plan their park days 60+ days in advance of their trip AND are late risers. Every other WDW visitor will find this system more restrictive and will find themselves spending more time in line than ever before.

Even the planners are going to get frustrated. The FP+ for the best rides will get booked early. Planners like to change their plans multiple times before their trip, often up to the last minute. That will no longer be possible. Want to switch park days because WDW announces a ride refurb late in the game? You can still do that, but only if you are willing to wait in the standby lines for the best rides, as all of the FP+ for those rides will be long gone.

This system change is designed to help one group of people - the Disney stockholders. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but that is what this is all about - getting more money from WDW guests while they are in the parks.

 

[TIME4DIZ]

I think you guys are right. I don't like FP+

 

[TIME4DIZ]

I think you are stretching this adage a bit.

I have never done MDE or FP+ before; you are right. But I'm sure I will not like being limited to three as I have never limited myself to three. Others are saying they are concerned about Disney's IT capabilities because they've seen the flaws in the system.

Some of our gripes, while not coming from THIS experience, are based on past personal histories.

It's not exactly the same as judging a book by its cover.

I'm just surprised by the rush to judgement. Why base your gripes on negative past experiences with other systems. There must be many more positive historical references for you to draw upon or you wouldn't be such a disney fan. I guess we just approach things differently.

 

[Jennasis]

Oh good! I was just saying we needed another FP+ thread about hating/not hating the system.

Having spoken to Disney directly about this (I wrote them an email expressing my concerns and received a phone call back), I have to say that I'm not excited about FP+. They alleviated only one of my concerns and confirmed pretty much the rest of them with the caveat that things could change down the road. He also said they wanted to hear from guests NOW so they could take all the concerns into account before the roll out.

The bottom line according to them is, essentially, this is happening....deal with it. It's primary design is to shorten standby wait times. Disney didn't build all those interactive queues for nothing. They expect people to ride standby more often than not.

I will deal with it...by going back to the good old days of not using FP at all and riding JUST standby. This works for us as we only travel at slower times of years. No idea what the poor folks who go during the peak seasons will do.

 

[momof2n2]

I'm just surprised by the rush to judgement. Why base your gripes on negative past experiences with other systems. There must be many more positive historical references for you to draw upon or you wouldn't be such a disney fan. I guess we just approach things differently.

The positive historical reference I have is grabbing multiple FP for Soarin' & TSMM. They are messing with that. Yes. I'm unhappy.

 

[UNCFanatik]

And people talk about the FP police but now we have a new FP+ police. The ones that look for every post that even hints at any and all optimism about the FP+ system and then tells them how wrong they are for having said optimism.

And its the same handful of posters you see in every FP+ thread spreading their FP+ doom and gloom scenarios. They are hoping it fails and jumps on any and all initial issues in these roll out phases. They refuse to see anything good because they want to to fail so badly.