The FP+ Gripe

[Rosanne]

I see two lines of thought when griping about FP+...

1. The people who don't want to be limited to 3 FPs and who are good at getting there at RD, getting FPs, and really maximizing their days at the parks. Totally legitimate complaint IMO.

2. With regards to planning....People like to plan, but the problem with FP+ is that you can't change your plans as much once you are there. Kid gets sick one day, can't really move those FPs to another day as easily. That kind of thing. Where with the old FP system, you could just move your days around, etc.

JMO!

Amen to that (kid sick thing). A couple of years ago we swung by the beach on our way for no more than one hour. I was bad mommy and didn't put sunscreen on the kids because we were really planning on just going for a few minutes so they could feel like they had done some shell searching.

My older DD didn't feel well the next morning (probably from her sunburn on her shoulders) so we scrapped our MK day and did our Kennedy Space Center day instead that day. We were okay with getting a later start to KSC. With the FP+ system such a switch would have meant a loss in our fast passes (or at least the ideal ones we would have chosen 60 + 10 days out).

The other thing for me is that I love my home computer but I don't care to do stuff on my phone other than search info. I'm not into apps. My kids are but they don't pay the bills or plan the trips. I really try to avoid the phone at the parks.

 

[Rosanne]

I am a super planner...but here's why I don't like FP+:

1. It's one thing to decide the night before that we're going to wake up early, make it to RD, so we can grab an E-ticket Fastpass...but it's a whole different ballgame to have to decide 60 days out that I need that E-ticket Fastpass for a particular date and time. If I had to schedule a Kali River Rapids ride 60 days ago - and it's now pouring down rain in a monsoon - that will totally suck. I like to plan - but I also like a BIT of flexibility within that plan - and I just don't see FP+ offering much flexibility - if any at all.


I've been watching and waiting and observing various reports, which is about all we can do right now...but I'm beginning to think that "FP+" is actually now an acronym for "Flexibility Prohibited +"....

LOL

Sad, but true! I'm so with you on this!

 

[JessicaKnits]

I'm someone who seriously enjoys planning and to be honest I don't really have an issue scheduling FP+ in advance except that at the moment in the UK we don't have access to the MDE site, so that would make it difficult.
My issue with FP+ is being limited as to how many we can use; three a day is a drastic change to our touring style. But, I would be just as upset if the current FP system changed and limited use.
I don't have an issue with RFID, or the bands, or anything else, but I don't like not being able to access the site (or have the app recognise/understand our UK tickets) or being so limited as to the number of FPs.

This! Exactly this. For those of us that love to plan, its not really the aspect of selecting 60+ days out. I was most unhappy with the perceived limit on the number of fast passes we will have available.

I might be greedy, but I would much rather have the ability to reserve 2-3 attractions ahead of time and still be able to pull fast passes during the day. I think it would still be possible to do this in a paperless manner, if that really is what Disney's ultimate goal is. Walk up to a kiosk with the current return time displayed just as it is now, touch your magic band. When you return to the ride during your window, touch your magic band at the Fast Pass return, and voila. Am I asking for too much?

What about families that plan trips on short notice? If I plan a trip during the Christmas season w/in 60 days, am I going to have to ride standby for everything?

I see a ton of benefit in the Magic Bands themselves. I think they're awesome! I am thrilled to not have to carry my credit cards, my id, my KTTW card, etc. Right now, I only see the negative of Fast Pass+. I, thankfully, am not going until February, so will have the benefit of being able to watch all this as it plays out before my trip. It will be interesting to see, that's for sure.

 

[Mickey's Best Girl]

I really really really DISLIKE the idea of FP+, plain and simple.

I don't use the dining plan because I am not a VACATION planner outside knowing what dates I am going on VACATION.

We sometimes choose a park based on which bus shows up at the resort first.

I have a schedule for my work life, not my VACATION time.

FP+ is not at all conducive to a relaxing VACATION. And yes, it is possible to just chill at WDW while still taking in many attractions and using the FP system as is. We do it all the time.

As a pp stated, the issue for me is not the magic bands or even MDE, although the website needs a major overhaul. It is simply that another level of spontaneity has been taken from guests. We have come to terms with missing out on TS because, for some weird reason, I have no idea what I will want to eat at 1pm on October 20, 2013. And if I did manage to figure that out 6 months in advance, I'd be in a major pickle if that particular park bus didn't show up first to the resort that morning.

 

[DebbieB]

Who is kind of surprised when they see people who LOVE to plan their Disney Vacations (down to the minute) gripe about pre-planning their FP+?

I would almost think if I enjoyed planning out my WDW vacations that much, I would LOVE the ability to book FP+ 2 months in advance!

Are the gripes about MDE being overblown? I see people saying their are not going to Disney World anymore because of it. They're angry because they say Disney is wanting to use this system to make more money and accuse them of being greedy. If the Disney company had no profits, there would be NO Disney World.

Walt Disney himself and the Disney company have always considered themselves to be on the forefront of technology, going digital (and paperless) for fast passes seem to be a natural progression. It's no surprise they are trying out newer technologies.

Way way way back in the day when Disney World introduced the KTTW so that it was your room key, park pass, your credit card, etc... I wonder how many people were so adverse to that change.

Sure, right now, there are some bugs to work out with the Magic Bands, FP+, etc... that's why it's still in the testing phase. Usually, Disney does a pretty good job at implementing new tech... In 5 years it will probably seem pretty natural to book your WDW trip, customize your band and wear it to the park so you don't have to keep up with your KTTW card.

I'm not saying that this new program doesn't have it's disadvantages, but it seems no one is talking about it's advantages either.

To me some of the advantages are:

1) Possible quicker park entry because we're not diggin' for cards and quicker check out lines at the gift shops
2) Not being forced to keep a card tucked away in a bag or pocket
3) The ability to customize your child's experience (if you to choose to opt-in and share the information)
4) Touch and go
5) If someone loves to plan, plan, plan - this gives them the ability to plan even more of their trip

Any other advantages I'm not thinking of?

Someone once told me... "Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you react to it"

Not trying to start a flame war, I would just like to see some folks point out the positive points of the MDE with magic bands, FP+, etc... for me.

I think part of the problem is all the internet rumors, not sure what is true and what's not. Some things may not even have final decisions yet.

 

[TIME4DIZ]

I think we need to see how it works before we can love it or hate it. Scheduling FP 60 days in advance is an option but not a requirement of FP+. Declaring that spontaneity is compromised is to assume that stand by lines will be too long or that in park FP will not be available for the attraction you want. Today you get a paper FP from a machine that requires a specific return timeframe, with FP+ you waive a band in front of a kiosk (or use an app on your phone) and pick an attraction and time that works for you. This doesn't seem to compromise any flexibility to me.
Any concern about FP not being available while at the park is because some people pretend to know how many FP disney will give per attraction and then further guess how many of those will be reserved in advance, and how many of those with a reserved FP will actually show up. Disney doesn't even know this equation yet so I don't think Dis posters do.
I think I will like knowing that I can have a relaxing breakfast, head to the Studios at my leisure and still ride TSMM before lunch. No need to be at RD with my kids in order to ensure a ride. I may realize that I'm giving up more than I gain, but it's too soon to know.
We should all take a deep breath,see how it works, and then pass judgement. I know that's not as much fun as making stuff up and getting angry about how it doesn't fit our personal touring styles but declaring FP+ a fail or a success seems premature.
Now that this reality check is over, back to figuring out how to get into BOG since all you Über-planners have booked dinner ADRs at 180+10 and nobody else can eat there now!!

 

[mom2rtk]

Now that this reality check is over, back to figuring out how to get into BOG since all you Über-planners have booked dinner ADRs at 180+10 and nobody else can eat there now!!

I could have told you to book that at 180+10, but you would have just accused me of making stuff up.

 

[TIME4DIZ]

I could have told you to book that at 180+10, but you would have just accused me of making stuff up.

No, because there is empirical evidence to support the ADR process. I did laugh at your response because I assumed you were being funny. If you truly felt 'accused' I apologize.
Fact is I didn't know 6 months ago I'd be doing this trip. Any other BOG advice would be appreciated (albeit OT for this forum).

 

[mom2rtk]

No, because there is empirical evidence to support the ADR process. I did laugh at your response because I assumed you were being funny. If you truly felt 'accused' I apologize.
Fact is I didn't know 6 months ago I'd be doing this trip. Any other BOG advice would be appreciated (albeit OT for this forum).

But there wasn't empirical evidence last August as I prepared for the initial opening of BOG ADRs:


IMG_5818 by mom2rtk, on Flickr

And no, it wasn't as bad as I expected. It was far worse. I never did get through. Thankfully I had called out the cavalry anticipating problems and they got through for me.

And the problem you are having now (having planned a trip inside the booking window) is the same problem many are likely to have trying to book several key rides when they plan their trips after the FP+ booking window opens.

 

[DisGirl819]

I'm looking forward to not having to go to a particular ride to pull a fp but to have it scheduled already. Them we can sleep in if we want to. We are not a rope drop family.

 

[bcrook]

I think we need to see how it works before we can love it or hate it. Scheduling FP 60 days in advance is an option but not a requirement of FP+. Declaring that spontaneity is compromised is to assume that stand by lines will be too long or that in park FP will not be available for the attraction you want. Today you get a paper FP from a machine that requires a specific return timeframe, with FP+ you waive a band in front of a kiosk (or use an app on your phone) and pick an attraction and time that works for you. This doesn't seem to compromise any flexibility to me.
Any concern about FP not being available while at the park is because some people pretend to know how many FP disney will give per attraction and then further guess how many of those will be reserved in advance, and how many of those with a reserved FP will actually show up. Disney doesn't even know this equation yet so I don't think Dis posters do.
I think I will like knowing that I can have a relaxing breakfast, head to the Studios at my leisure and still ride TSMM before lunch. No need to be at RD with my kids in order to ensure a ride. I may realize that I'm giving up more than I gain, but it's too soon to know.
We should all take a deep breath,see how it works, and then pass judgement. I know that's not as much fun as making stuff up and getting angry about how it doesn't fit our personal touring styles but declaring FP+ a fail or a success seems premature.
Now that this reality check is over, back to figuring out how to get into BOG since all you Über-planners have booked dinner ADRs at 180+10 and nobody else can eat there now!!

If you get to go in moderate to low crowd season - off peak - this will never really be a problem. FP+ should work like a dream. But apparently BOG is still a problem in the off season.

 

[TIME4DIZ]

But there wasn't empirical evidence last August as I prepared for the initial opening of BOG ADRs:


IMG_5818 by mom2rtk, on Flickr

And no, it wasn't as bad as I expected. It was far worse. I never did get through. Thankfully I had called out the cavalry anticipating problems and they got through for me.

And the problem you are having now (having planned a trip inside the booking window) is the same problem many are likely to have trying to book several key rides when they plan their trips after the FP+ booking window opens.

Of course there was evidence. Anybody who ever tried to eat at CRT or le Celllier knew that popular restaurants booked up & walk ups were just about impossible.
Presenting this as a 'problem many are likely to have trying to book several key rides" is the making stuff up part I mentioned in my PP. I respect your disney expertise and passion, but you can't have any idea how many FP will be available pre or post day-of. It's too bad that you have convinced yourself and perhaps others that this is going to bad for their disney experience with out having tried it.

 

[TIME4DIZ]

If you get to go in moderate to low crowd season - off peak - this will never really be a problem. FP+ should work like a dream. But apparently BOG is still a problem in the off season.

I appreciate your optimism. However, having followed these discussions the last few days, I am 100% sure some dis board regulars will find a problem.

 

[dmaz]

Tester here! The system is allowing you to pick 3 top attractions as well as flexibility to change times around a bit. We love to hop so I love the fact there is no need to run(I am usually the runner) and we will still get to go on our must dos. We will be able to enjoy some of the quieter attractions in the morning or even a tour without worrying about getting to our must dos which is our usual touring plan. So far the only thing I am not fond of is even though I have tix longer than our stay(we will be at the Dolphin) I can't make FP+ for those days.

I do think booking 60 days out when this is available to everyone is a bit much though. I've been know to change resorts a few weeks before which tends to change our whole touring plan.

I am excited and scared at the same time. The good thing is we have gone enough that if everything doesn't go as planned we will still have a great time.

 

[mom2rtk]

Of course there was evidence. Anybody who ever tried to eat at CRT or le Celllier knew that popular restaurants booked up & walk ups were just about impossible.
Presenting this as a 'problem many are likely to have trying to book several key rides" is the making stuff up part I mentioned in my PP. I respect your disney expertise and passion, but you can't have any idea how many FP will be available pre or post day-of. It's too bad that you have convinced yourself and perhaps others that this is going to bad for their disney experience with out having tried it.

Actually CRT and LC aren't that tough a get any more at 180 days out. And lots of folks thought BOG wouldn't be that bad because it seats, what..... 500+ compared to maybe 250 at CRT.

I will concede that there is no way to know that certain rides will book up ahead of time. I have a hunch several will. Not right away, but once people understand the system and start fully booking it, then yes. But I don't blame my distaste for FP+ on my anticipation that certain rides will book up. Remember I'm a planner. I go once a year and if I can book my ADRs at 180 + 10, then I can certainly book my FP+ at 60 days out.

But little bits of this ARE known to us at this point. And I know enough about what I like to know I don't like it.

1) Booking will be 60 days out. I CAN schedule that far out. But I don't WANT to. I like to plan my trips, but once I walk into the park, I want complete flexibility. If I want to let one of my kids pick a park on the spur of the moment, I want to have full fastpass flexibility. If it's pouring rain, I want to spend my FP possibilities on indoor rides. I've done BTMRR in the driving rain. And it's really not as fun as you'd expect. Unless you're into pain.

2) FP+ does not allow booking the same ride more than once. Sometimes we like to ride the same ride over and over. With the help of fastpass. That appears to be going by the wayside.

3) I don't want to have my smartphone out and on our entire trip. And I refuse to stand in line for a kiosk behind people trying to get consensus on not only which ride to reserve next, but what time to do it. I don't think it's going out on a limb to think that's going to be worse than standing in a long fastpass line when all you have to do is stick in your ticket and take what comes out.

4) Don't get me started on Disney's IT history. That mess of an opening BOG booking day was just one example. This system will only be as good as Disney's IT infrastructure.

I don't think any of those issues are stuff I'm making up.

But most of this comes down to being a math problem. So feel free to tell me I'm making stuff up again. That's fine. But ride capacity remains constant. And if you can make acquisition of a FP slot easier, then more people will acquire a FP. Allowing folks to book stuff in their pjs from home removes a pretty big barrier, so there will be more utilization. Yes, there are limits, but how great can it be when the one saving grace is also one of the most distasteful parts (the limits)? I keep reading posts where people say "I'll like it as long as I can book 3 in advance and still have regular FP in the parks". Except that ride volume remains constant. Something has to give. So I'm just going with my hunch that the "easier" they make it, the more demand they will have, and the greater the odds that the rides I care about most will potentially book up before I ever enter the park.

 

[mom2rtk]

I appreciate your optimism. However, having followed these discussions the last few days, I am 100% sure some dis board regulars will find a problem.

And I'm 100% certain that several Disboard regulars will find it practically perfect in every way.

 

[Vertical]

Of course there was evidence. Anybody who ever tried to eat at CRT or le Celllier knew that popular restaurants booked up & walk ups were just about impossible.
Presenting this as a 'problem many are likely to have trying to book several key rides" is the making stuff up part I mentioned in my PP. I respect your disney expertise and passion, but you can't have any idea how many FP will be available pre or post day-of. It's too bad that you have convinced yourself and perhaps others that this is going to bad for their disney experience with out having tried it.

THANK you. This is what I've been thinking all day. So many people are making assumptions about a system that isn't in, and they're very busy trying to convince everyone it's bad.

But little bits of this ARE known to us at this point. And I know enough about what I like to know I don't like it.

1) Booking will be 60 days out. I CAN schedule that far out. But I don't WANT to. I like to plan my trips, but once I walk into the park, I want complete flexibility. If I want to let one of my kids pick a park on the spur of the moment, I want to have full fastpass flexibility. If it's pouring rain, I want to spend my FP possibilities on indoor rides. I've done BTMRR in the driving rain. And it's really not as fun as you'd expect. Unless you're into pain.

Where has this been stated? I'm not saying you're wrong, I've just seen it mentioned several times, but only ever on this board. How do we "know" this?

 

[brockash]

Who is kind of surprised when they see people who LOVE to plan their Disney Vacations (down to the minute) gripe about pre-planning their FP+?

I would almost think if I enjoyed planning out my WDW vacations that much, I would LOVE the ability to book FP+ 2 months in advance!

Are the gripes about MDE being overblown? I see people saying their are not going to Disney World anymore because of it. They're angry because they say Disney is wanting to use this system to make more money and accuse them of being greedy. If the Disney company had no profits, there would be NO Disney World.

Walt Disney himself and the Disney company have always considered themselves to be on the forefront of technology, going digital (and paperless) for fast passes seem to be a natural progression. It's no surprise they are trying out newer technologies.

Way way way back in the day when Disney World introduced the KTTW so that it was your room key, park pass, your credit card, etc... I wonder how many people were so adverse to that change.

Sure, right now, there are some bugs to work out with the Magic Bands, FP+, etc... that's why it's still in the testing phase. Usually, Disney does a pretty good job at implementing new tech... In 5 years it will probably seem pretty natural to book your WDW trip, customize your band and wear it to the park so you don't have to keep up with your KTTW card.

I'm not saying that this new program doesn't have it's disadvantages, but it seems no one is talking about it's advantages either.

To me some of the advantages are:

1) Possible quicker park entry because we're not diggin' for cards and quicker check out lines at the gift shops
2) Not being forced to keep a card tucked away in a bag or pocket
3) The ability to customize your child's experience (if you to choose to opt-in and share the information)
4) Touch and go
5) If someone loves to plan, plan, plan - this gives them the ability to plan even more of their trip

Any other advantages I'm not thinking of?

Someone once told me... "Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you react to it"

Not trying to start a flame war, I would just like to see some folks point out the positive points of the MDE with magic bands, FP+, etc... for me.

For me it's mostly about the limited fastpasses available. The thought of only being able to use 3 fastpasses a day seems crazy to our family. I'd say on average we use at least double that and on some days even triple. I like to plan and love to plan Disney stuff in advance, but I have absolutely no interest in standing around in long lines. We've never really had an issue in the past, due to good planning and the use of fastpasses, but only using 3 fastpasses a day is a HUGE negative for us. The other part about the whole thing I'm not fond of is having to use and be reliant upon my smartphone for our entire trip. We very seldom even use our cell phones on our trips and I'm really not wanting to start using them now...not to mention having to figure something out about battery life, not losing them while using them constantly etc.

 

[MermaidMommy]

To me some of the advantages are:

1) Possible quicker park entry because we're not diggin' for cards and quicker check out lines at the gift shops
2) Not being forced to keep a card tucked away in a bag or pocket
3) The ability to customize your child's experience (if you to choose to opt-in and share the information)
4) Touch and go
5) If someone loves to plan, plan, plan - this gives them the ability to plan even more of their trip

I find it interesting that in this thread, you are asking why people are complaining about FP+, but when you post about advantages, 4 out of 5 of them are advantages of the band, not advantages of FP+. And, the only FP+ advantage you list is the ability to plan more.

I'm just pointing this out because Magic Bands and FP+ are two distinct things. I'm not necessarily opposed to the bands -- and I agree with many of your advantages about them -- but I sure wish they would have given us the bands and left FP alone.

 

[Rosanne]

THANK you. This is what I've been thinking all day. So many people are making assumptions about a system that isn't in, and they're very busy trying to convince everyone it's bad.

Not sure why you think we're "trying to convince everyone it's bad". I hope deeply that it will be better than it sounds. However, there are many things about it that don't appear to be "good" to many of us. I'd rather speak out about concerns now while they are still in the shaping stage then once it's fully implemented.

For some, it will be great, especially if they don't run into any unforeseen problems. For many it turns a vacation into a headache. For instance, my job requires constant long-term and short-term planning as well as dealing with sudden surprises. I am good at it but it stresses me out as others depend on me. On vacation I get to wing it. Sure, I could still wing it and not pre-schedule but then I'd likely have leftovers.

I hope it turns out great but I'm not going to pretend that's what I see in the near future. Probably a year or two down the road it kinks will be worked out but frankly it sounds so complicated when you have family members coming and going and weather being unpredictable and not knowing if lunch will have agreed with one well enough to ride SM at 2-3pm after all.

It was so simple before and anyone could access it. You didn't need a smartphone or a kiosk.

Vacation.