The FP+ Gripe

[mbrittb00]

Over onTHIS THREAD a poster said they were part of the test and were informed that regular FP would definitely go away at some point.

So the testers should be making informed opinions.

Other than hearsay do you have any facts to back up that statement.

The question is are all day-of FPs (except for may be gifts from Disney) going away completely, or simply that the current FP- system will go away and be replaced by the all electronic app/kiosk driven system, and there will be FPs avaliable day of?

Personally I believe that it will be the former as that will help spread the FPs around more and give Disney the opportunity to give out "gift" FPs and be the hero.

Note that I have no facts, proof or otherwise to back up this assertion, so maybe I shouldn't be talking about it.

 

[Planogirl]

People have been saying Disney isn't going to get as much negative feedback on FP+ because they are still allowing the use of FP. Even though the test subjects apparently HAVE been informed that standard FP is going away. I was kind of poking fun of the fan reactions on the DIS.

When it was only hinted that FP would be eliminated, there was a strong negative backlash here. If a Disney rep is confirming that to testers, I can only imagine the negative reaction they would be getting.

True. In fairness we don't actually know whether regular FP will be going away completely. Disney might say so now but everything is always subject to change. Besides it's still there so saying it will go away is only an idea and even the worst critic isn't sure how bad it will actually be if it happens.

Maybe it will be even worse than what they picture.

 

[Tekneek]

Currently, the information posted online (by Disney themselves) says that those using the bands ("paperless tickets") cannot participate in the current FP system. While it does not conclusively indicate their intention to eliminate the current FP system, it doesn't signal an intention to mingle the two together. One could reasonably assume, based on the information available from Disney alone, that the current FP system will be retired in favor of the FP+ system of advance reservations limited to 1 park per day.

 

[Reddog1134]

Currently, the information posted online (by Disney themselves) says that those using the bands ("paperless tickets") cannot participate in the current FP system. While it does not conclusively indicate their intention to eliminate the current FP system, it doesn't signal an intention to mingle the two together. One could reasonably assume, based on the information available from Disney alone, that the current FP system will be retired in favor of the FP+ system of advance reservations limited to 1 park per day.

That does seem to be the direction they are going in. However, if they were to change their minds, they could produce new FP machines with Magic band sensors that either distribute paper tickets or just electronically add it to your FP schedule.

 

[Tekneek]

That does seem to be the direction they are going in. However, if they were to change their minds, they could produce new FP machines with Magic band sensors that either distribute paper tickets or just electronically add it to your FP schedule.

True. Although, I'd suggest there is a low probability of a reversal on the elimination of the current FP system. There is potential for an implementation similar to the current FP system for same-day use, with FP+ simply being the advance scheduling version, but I don't think testing has revealed any sign of such an intention to this point. They're having enough trouble trying to implement and manage 3 FP+ slots per day without also turning up an ad hoc system that is managed on the fly throughout the day.

FP+ as it appears today seems more to Disney's benefit than the guest. If they had a version that managed flow throughout the day and opened up slots for under-utilized attractions (and removed them from over-used attractions) as necessary, including the pushing of notifications to guests when these happen, then that is easily a win for guests. Given the difficulties with most Disney back-end systems, though, I wouldn't hold my breath for something so fantastic. You can't even split up your group for dining reservations at two different restaurants without human intervention.

 

[glamdring269]

We have a one week trip the week of October 5th and I hope we're able to take part in testing. 2 adults, no kids, and we're always at rope drop for EMH and park hop. I'd love to see how this system works under the idea that I can park hop and have PM FP+ already lined up at the park where we have our ADR for that night.

Seems like it might be a stretch but I can see this working as follows:

1) Knock out all of the top-tier rides at Park A in the morning (via EMH or standard rope drop).
2) Hang around the park until around lunch then head back to the resort to relax by the pool or in the room for awhile.
3) Head out to Park B in the late afternoon / early evening for more top tier rides via FP+ and have dinner.

Ah if only it works out that way. I have a feeling that will be one of those 'great on paper, poor in actual execution' type of ideas. At least we know we still have total control over #1,#2, and the ADR part of #3. The FP+ part is just a potential bonus.

 

[ilovemk76]

I'm not sure who you are directing this at, but to my knowledge no one on THIS thread has made any such complaints.

Please keep the comments to the topic and posts of THIS thread rather than injection complaints from other threads.

Thanks.

Who died and left you in charge?:rotfl:

 

[jade1]

Who died and left you in charge?:rotfl:

Well does have "brit" in the name?

 

[JRawkSteady]

Although I do plan my trips ahead of time, I don't know what the weather is going to be any given day...so if I made a FP+ reservation for an outdoor attraction (or one that doesn't run when it rains - - i.e. Test Track) I'm pretty much screwed out of the pass completely...which brings me to my main problem with FP+...The limitations! You only get 3 a day; You can only get FP+ for one park, even though they push Park Hoppers; You can't do the same attraction twice; The Group A - Group B debacle...

Granted, I definitely know most of this will change by the time it goes live, but it sounds very very limited right now, and I feel bad for most guests who are chosen to participate.

 

[ilovemk76]

Well does have "brit" in the name?

That is too funny. I did not even notice that!!!

 

[hydrotony]

Currently, the information posted online (by Disney themselves) says that those using the bands ("paperless tickets") cannot participate in the current FP system. While it does not conclusively indicate their intention to eliminate the current FP system, it doesn't signal an intention to mingle the two together. One could reasonably assume, based on the information available from Disney alone, that the current FP system will be retired in favor of the FP+ system of advance reservations limited to 1 park per day.

A logic deduction...(or so I think based on what has been said)...

Either you will use the magic band as your ticket into the park...

OR

You use the RFID card as your ticket into the park.

You can't do both because one person will not have both media activated (unless they juggle 2 separate tickets unconnected to each other, at much greater total cost).

Because of this, those using the magic band can only get fastpasses to attractions using FP+ and the MDE system. Those not using magic bands, however, seem to have the option of entering the MDE FP+ system OR using the FP system which has been used for the last decade. Once they enter the MDE system, they probably can then only use the new FP+

 

[mom2rtk]

A logic deduction...(or so I think based on what has been said)...

Either you will use the magic band as your ticket into the park...

OR

You use the RFID card as your ticket into the park.

You can't do both because one person will not have both media activated (unless they juggle 2 separate tickets unconnected to each other, at much greater total cost).

Because of this, those using the magic band can only get fastpasses to attractions using FP+ and the MDE system. Those not using magic bands, however, seem to have the option of entering the MDE FP+ system OR using the FP system which has been used for the last decade. Once they enter the MDE system, they probably can then only use the new FP+

That depends. It is entirely possible that both the band and the RFID ticket merely access the same account in Disney's system. And it's entirely possible that you could enter with the band and use the ticket to get regular FPs. I'd guess that's exactly what will happen with the August test. I would think that the goal for actual rollout is to have people using ONLY the band (with no backup RFID card) thus precluding them from using the old FP distribution kiosks. Whether they will be able to get on their smartphones and add more FP+ slots once in the park, or once they have used the ones they prebooked......remains to be seen.

 

[rantnnravin]

A logic deduction...(or so I think based on what has been said)...

Either you will use the magic band as your ticket into the park...

OR

You use the RFID card as your ticket into the park.

You can't do both because one person will not have both media activated (unless they juggle 2 separate tickets unconnected to each other, at much greater total cost).

Because of this, those using the magic band can only get fastpasses to attractions using FP+ and the MDE system. Those not using magic bands, however, seem to have the option of entering the MDE FP+ system OR using the FP system which has been used for the last decade. Once they enter the MDE system, they probably can then only use the new FP+

Except - that the turnstile activation (for lack of better terminology) does not occur on the device itself (card or band) - it occurs in the mainframe. The ticket # is the same for either medium. So, "ticket" # 1234567 enters MK on wednesday, july 24 - not "magic band" # 1234567 or "RFID card"# 1234567 -
The media speaks back to the database in order to: grant entry to the park, open your hotel room, pay for something using room charge, etc.

So, you can enter the park w/magic band, use RFID card to pay for a pair of mouse ears, use the magic band to get onto space mountain, pay for lunch with the RFID card, get back into your hotel room using the magic band, etc. You care not precluded from any of these things because you first chose to use the magic band to enter the MK or have FP+ set up.
The thing with the current FP readers is that they read a magnetic stripe to speak to the mainframe, while the magic band/RFID card uses radio frequency. THAT is why, theoretically the FP+ will replace the FP-. They are two different, non-interchangeable systems. What the current KTTW cards have is a magnetic strip in addition to the RFID chip. So these cards can do double duty.
What *I think* is happening is that they have to test how all of the RFID access points are working (shops, restaurants, rides) before they remove the magnetically run systems. Only then can they remove the "net" from under the highwire. The phase-in is providing the system stress-test.
I don't claim to know the algorithms for the FP- minus system. But I will venture that with the addition of previously nonFP- attractions, the system may not be as thinly stretched as we might think. I don't know.

What i would hope to see is perhaps fewer pre-booked headliners allowing for more same-day pulls OR limiting the pre-book time to 24hrs before.

 

[wwitt]

I am wondering how this will work with those of us who are Deaf and enjoy the interpreted shows. We never get the schedule until 1 week before we go. Really makes making ADRs and FP+ difficult if not impossible.

I definitely see this as a real reason for concern. I hope you have voiced this concern to Disney so they can put something in place for you to have equal access!

 

[mbrittb00]

A logic deduction...(or so I think based on what has been said)...

Either you will use the magic band as your ticket into the park...

OR

You use the RFID card as your ticket into the park.

You can't do both because one person will not have both media activated (unless they juggle 2 separate tickets unconnected to each other, at much greater total cost).

Because of this, those using the magic band can only get fastpasses to attractions using FP+ and the MDE system. Those not using magic bands, however, seem to have the option of entering the MDE FP+ system OR using the FP system which has been used for the last decade. Once they enter the MDE system, they probably can then only use the new FP+

I suspect that once FP+ goes live (fully) the FP- system (including all the kiosks, etc) will go away completely, leaving the guest with NO choice but the magic bands. It is however curious why they included that language in the T&C unless they were planning to initially give people a choice while they were phaseing in the system over say a 60 day period.

 

[rastuso]

We have a one week trip the week of October 5th and I hope we're able to take part in testing. 2 adults, no kids, and we're always at rope drop for EMH and park hop. I'd love to see how this system works under the idea that I can park hop and have PM FP+ already lined up at the park where we have our ADR for that night.

Seems like it might be a stretch but I can see this working as follows:

1) Knock out all of the top-tier rides at Park A in the morning (via EMH or standard rope drop).
2) Hang around the park until around lunch then head back to the resort to relax by the pool or in the room for awhile.
3) Head out to Park B in the late afternoon / early evening for more top tier rides via FP+ and have dinner.

Ah if only it works out that way. I have a feeling that will be one of those 'great on paper, poor in actual execution' type of ideas. At least we know we still have total control over #1,#2, and the ADR part of #3. The FP+ part is just a potential bonus.

You're about the 100th person on this supposedly insignificantly small group on DIS with these plans. Good luck getting those PM TSMM FP+s. I'm sure they will be available a few days out, or even noon on the day of

Jason

 

[rt2dz]

Except - that the turnstile activation (for lack of better terminology) does not occur on the device itself (card or band) - it occurs in the mainframe. The ticket # is the same for either medium. So, "ticket" # 1234567 enters MK on wednesday, july 24 - not "magic band" # 1234567 or "RFID card"# 1234567 -
The media speaks back to the database in order to: grant entry to the park, open your hotel room, pay for something using room charge, etc.

Unless "ticket" # 1234567 changes into ticket # M1234567 during magic band conversion. I'm totally working off memory, and where the info is coming from could be a speculative post, but I could swear I've read that linking the ticket and changing to a magic band voids the ticket, making this completely plausible. I'm sure the real reason is to make sure people aren't sharing ticket media, but I'm pretty sure this will be, after full roll out, either/or FP and no double dipping. I hope I'm wrong.

I'm thinking you'll get to choose one or the other after roll out. Then after a period of time when most guests are using magic bands anyhow (new purchases, etc), Disney will then pull out the legacy machines and no more FP classic. I'm guessing Disney will actually give us quite a bit of time to adjust--maybe a year...?

I don't think it is a matter IF we will all eventually have to use FP+ (or SB only), but how does FP+ actually work? I could actually get behind 24 hours. Plans are generally well known due to the unexpected by then. It wouldn't actually help with all issues, but I see the benefit of that. I could even live with that as an onsite perk only (and maybe AP) if limited to 3 and a certain amount, 75% or so, are reserved for same day use to day guests.

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[rantnnravin]

Unless "ticket" # 1234567 changes into ticket # M1234567 during magic band conversion. I'm totally working off memory, and where the info is coming from could be a speculative post, but I could swear I've read that linking the ticket and changing to a magic band voids the ticket, making this completely plausible. I'm sure the real reason is to make sure people aren't haring ticket media, but I'm pretty sure this will be, after full roll out, this will be either/or FP and no double dipping. I hope I'm wrong.

I'm thinking you'll get to choose one or the other after roll out. Then after a period of time when most guests are using magic bands anyhow (new purchases, etc), Disney will then pull out the legacy machines and no more FP classic. I'm guessing Disney will actually give us quite a bit of time to adjust--maybe a year...?

I don't think it is a matter IF we will all eventually have to use FP+ (or SB only), but how does FP+ actually work? I could actually get behind 24 hours. Plans are generally well known due to the unexpected by then. It wouldn't actually help with all issues, but I see the benefit of that. I could even live with that as an onsite perk only (and maybe AP) if limited to 3 and a certain amount, 75% or so, are reserved for same day use to day guests.

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I don't think we disagree much - just what i bolded - i think both need to be active in case of an issue because by virtue, it's still a "test". I personally believe they want to limit reliance on FP- in order to gauge with more accuracy how the system is working. So they are telling testers it's one or the other. Buuuuut, IMHO, I don't think they will be voiding the RFID ticket because it might be needed in case of a system failure of some sort.
Of course this is all conjecture on my (or anybody's) part.


ETA: I think we are extrapolating what they might mean by saying switching to magicband "voids the ticket" - Let's use AP's as a prime example. Anyone with an AP is currently connected to the legacy system. IF (big if) they choose to try FP+, they NEED an RFID based ticket medium. Because of this, they will receive an RFID card that also has a magnetic strip. Why both? Well, they are not required to used the RFID, they can use legacy if they so choose, even if they have the new medium. Even if they buy the magic band, they can still choose to use their card. And, the change to THAT ticket type requires them to void the ticket card currently in their wallet in favor of the new card.
Now, resort guests in the test are receiving the magic band in addition to the RFID enabled card which is also equipped with the magnetic strip just like the AP holders above. Why? Because it's a test and gradual rollout of the non-magnetic system they are planning to implement. It's not really about the FP+, I don't think.

 

[mbrittb00]

I don't think we disagree much - just what i bolded - i think both need to be active in case of an issue because by virtue, it's still a "test". I personally believe they want to limit reliance on FP- in order to gauge with more accuracy how the system is working. So they are telling testers it's one or the other. Buuuuut, IMHO, I don't think they will be voiding the RFID ticket because it might be needed in case of a system failure of some sort.
Of course this is all conjecture on my (or anybody's) part.

For testing, yes they are both active. That has been confirmed based on multiple reports. However, I think the discusison was actually about when the system went live. At that point (based on the T&C) once you chose to switch to FP+ your old paper ticket will be deactivated and won't work anymore.

 

[rt2dz]

I don't think we disagree much - just what i bolded - i think both need to be active in case of an issue because by virtue, it's still a "test". I personally believe they want to limit reliance on FP- in order to gauge with more accuracy how the system is working. So they are telling testers it's one or the other. Buuuuut, IMHO, I don't think they will be voiding the RFID ticket because it might be needed in case of a system failure of some sort.
Of course this is all conjecture on my (or anybody's) part.

I am talking about roll out, not the test. However, even those that are told they can double dip, are being told they will be given a card for it. They will not be using a regular ticket like non-testers, but a KTTW card. That is easy to do. We've had tickets demagnetize mid-day and we've been handed FP cards for that park, that day only more than once. Also, very easy not to link to a ticket (FP+ ability) after roll out.

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