the fear of missing school?

[tn_disney_addict]

HI, first of all relax.

These truancy laws are in place mainly for the parents that don't care enough about their kids to get out of bed in the morning. There are so many parents out there that let their kids miss for no reason other than that.

I think that reasonable adults up at that school can see the difference between those parents and you..just trying to take a vacation.

HTH!

I agree so much with this! My sentiment is exactly the same, the rule was made for the people that lay around and let their kids miss school because they don't FEEL like getting up, getting their kids ready and taking them to school!

Our school ALWAYS says "have a wonderful time, be safe and take lots of pictures". They NEVER give us a hard time about taking a family vacation. My DD is 8, in third grade and will make up all of her work, either before or after, that she is asked to make up. Often times, the teachers give her some of the work that she missed while gone, but only that work necessary to keep her up with everyone.

I find it hard to imagine that parents would be ARRESTED for a family vacation unless there was a very apparent history of abusing the attendance laws. So I say "have a wonderful time, be safe and take lots of pictures".

 

[brbenoit]

If you lived in PA, your property taxes contribute a portion of school taxes. The remainder comes from the state. So if 1000 kids are present in school today, that gets reported to the state and we get $25 per kid that day. I'm just making up numbers for the sake of my example. If 100 kids are absent that day (whether they are on the rolls or not) the subsity for that day is reduced by $2500. Everything gets reported to the state, daily attendance, the number of unexcused or illegal absences, suspensions, everything. Auditors come into the schools every year to verify that the school is keeping accurate records. If the school fails to provide accurate information, it is fined by the state in a reduction of money. None of this has anything to do with vacations other than the fact that, yes, in some states, schools do lose money for the students who are absent on a particular day.

I know you have nothing to do with it and no contol over how they do things but I find that an amazingly poor way to run things. It basically flies in the face of common business sense.

It doesn't cost the schools any less to run when a child is absent, much like a movie theatre, plane or any "mass" service, the cost is the same whether they have 1 client or a full class/theatre/plane.

It looks to me like a way for the state to "save" money by shortchanging the students through punitive damages to the school when kids are absent. Not at all related to the real cost of operating the schools.

I am glad things aren't run that way in our school district.

 

[Ardenne]

We have the same kind of financial setup in our school system -- the school loses money when kids aren't present.

Last year (DD was in 2nd grade) I requested an excused absence for our Disney trip, under a provision in our handbook that says the principal can approve excused absences for 'other reasons' not already specified (which basically is limited to illness and funerals and, go, figure, a day for the state fair -- an exception I've been told is mandated by state law.) Despite 3 letters and multiple phone calls to the principal's office over the 2 months preceding the trip, however, I never got a reply. We went on our trip anyway (with my daughter's teacher's full blessing, I should add) and had no problems whatsoever, other than the nasty letter we got from the school district declaring her a 'habitual truant' for missing those 5 days. The teacher sent work with us and just asked that she turn it in the day she returned, though officially DD wasn't permitted to make up missed work. We were all quite pleased with how easily DD kept up -- in fact, at our conference a week after we returned, the teacher commented that my daughter was more prepared on the day she returned to class than some of the kids who had been there all the previous week. She agreed with my impression that the lack of upper-level approval for the absence was tied more to financial issues (ie, the school losing money) than concern about my daughter's academic stability.

Since DH had job issues come up and at the last minute had his vacation cancelled and wasn't able to come with us, we decided to give it another try this year. This time it took 2 letters to the principal (different principal than we had last year, I should add) and one phone call to get a reply, but Friday she called to let me know she was giving DD approval for an excused absence. We've already arranged with the teacher to send her work home with her this week, before we leave, so she can complete as much as possible before we go. I expect she'll have no more difficulty keeping up than she did last year.

We probably can't do this indefinitely -- but in the lower grades, for a child who's typically at the top of her class and breezing through everything she tackles, I don't see the problem at all.

 

[cybrkitn]

No one is suggesting that the schools own your children. They are responsible, however, to provide an education for them. And as citizens, we are subject to the laws of the land.

If you are called for jury duty, you must report. It's the law of the land.

Sorry if I came across harshly. You can tell, I'm a first time mom
I've read a few times on these boards about school policies and I am having trouble understanding what the fuss is with the schools if it's a child who is not known to be out a lot. The way the posters come across, it sounds like the schools are intimidating the parents. That was the main reason why I ranted.

There are companies out there who close down for a week or two twice a year (my brother works for such a company). The parents who work for companies like this have no choice on when to take their vacation.

There are also those that need to work around their co-workers (like myself). I have one co-worker who takes her vacations when her kids are off of school. Both of us work under the same manager and we have no choice but to work around each other. Our manager does not want us taking time off at the same time (illness excluded).

I just feel the schools shouldn't be coming down hard on parents who are taking vacations unless it's something that is done too often.

 

[adisneylife4me]

One thing that I was thinking about is whether the rules apply the other way around. What about a teacher who gets pregnant and has to miss some of the school year. Is there a penalty to them?

I think you are comparing two very different things here. When a teacher is absent, for any reason, a responsible, trained adult fills in. The curriculum continues (if it is for a long period of time, such as maternity leave) and children continue learning. In CT, any long-term sub position must be filled by a certified teacher.
I hope your above quote is written slightly in jest. To suggest there should be a penalty for female teachers to have a child is ridiculous. And remember, we're not penalizing your kids. We are making sure there is "no child left behind." Wait. . . don't get me on that subject!

 

[kvogel11202]

We are pulling our kids out of school to go at the end of October. My kids are in 2nd and 5th grade. I went to the back to school night last week, mainly to let the teachers know in person that my boys would be out of school. Both my boys are good students, so I'm not worried. The second grade teacher thought it was great that we are going with a large group of family, and offered to pull together some work to help him stay with the class. The fifth grade teacher, what a different story. I had to wait 15 minutes to talk to her because she was helping another set of parents whose daughter doesn't speak "very good" english. This was not Parent-Teacher confrences mind you- just a group meeting to discuss what her expectations are, ect....and we are sitting there obviously waiting. When asked if they speak english at home the parents looked appalled, "oh no" they say! What? So we FIANLLY get our turn, and the teacher gets really nasty, when I asked about her getting us his work ahead of time "Oh no, we don't do that anymore"... he'll have to make up the work when he gets back. I reviewed that he would not have to miss recess or stay after school for this, she kind of paused then said he could work on it as he goes, but really why would I pull him out of school when it's so very important? I explained that this was the best time for all in our group, I then (and I was a little PO'd at this point) requested she let me know how much of the time my child is in her classroom is spent working with the children who don't speak english? That's time she should be spending teaching ALL the children. I then reiterated that she just wasted 15 minutes of MY time working one on one with the parents, who aren't even helping their own kid by speaking english at home. I'm sorry, but they are my kids, they are good students, and they will just have to deal with it. That's my take.

 

[disney junky]

I know you have nothing to do with it and no contol over how they do things but I find that an amazingly poor way to run things. It basically flies in the face of common business sense.

It doesn't cost the schools any less to run when a child is absent, much like a movie theatre, plane or any "mass" service, the cost is the same whether they have 1 client or a full class/theatre/plane.

It looks to me like a way for the state to "save" money by shortchanging the students through punitive damages to the school when kids are absent. Not at all related to the real cost of operating the schools.

I am glad things aren't run that way in our school district.

Believe me, as an insider (teacher) I agree with you. In the state's eyes, attaching money to attendance provides incentive for keeping kids in school. The trouble is, schools aren't businesses and no matter how hard we try, there's no business model that works.

I hope I didn't sound too defensive. Both my kids are through school and I really am glad they got the education they did, when they did and where they did, but I am glad they are through, and we were fortunate to have somehow done the right things for their success.

BTW, we took them out for two days when they were in third and fifth grade for an extended trip to Williamsburg (sounds pretty educational doesn't it).

 

[Karnak]

when we get back we can be arrested. i say that they cannot do anything of the sort. she seems to think the school system is a totalitarian government in and of itself and i say they cannot tell you when and where you can go.

I doubt that the school system has governmental powers. More than likely it depends upon your state's laws. Some states have laws on the book that require parents to send their children to school, or apply for and get permission to home school them.

However, it does seem to me that you are planning to take your child away from school for way too many days. As an ex teacher, I would be very unhappy with your plans.

Sometimes I'm glad I'm retired.

 

[kvogel11202]

I think you are comparing two very different things here. When a teacher is absent, for any reason, a responsible, trained adult fills in. The curriculum continues (if it is for a long period of time, such as maternity leave) and children continue learning. In CT, any long-term sub position must be filled by a certified teacher.
I hope your above quote is written slightly in jest. To suggest there should be a penalty for female teachers to have a child is ridiculous. And remember, we're not penalizing your kids. We are making sure there is "no child left behind." Wait. . . don't get me on that subject!

I'm sorry, but that no chold left behind is crap. It only means when they want to enforce it no child gets left behind. My son has a severe reacton to immunizations, so bad he amost had his foot amputated at age 1. Come time to go to Kindergarten, Mass requires the Chicken Pox vaccine. This vaccine is completely ridiculous, since not every state requires it, so it's not wholly effective. I fought them on this one- and the rule is that if the child doesn't have the vaccine and someone at the school gets chicken pox- and this is everytime- they have to miss 20 days of school. Yet I can't take them out for 5 days to go on a family vacation? Sorry back on track- so I call our Superintendant of Schools- he tells me this "isn't his problem". I finally gave up- was beat down by the system- and got him the shot. He was hospitalized for three days. It's absurd. And the kids who got Chicken Pox- HAD THE VACCINE. So I don't worry about removing them for vacations.

 

[adisneylife4me]

- I then (and I was a little PO'd at this point) requested she let me know how much of the time my child is in her classroom is spent working with the children who don't speak english? That's time she should be spending teaching ALL the children. I then reiterated that she just wasted 15 minutes of MY time working one on one with the parents, who aren't even helping their own kid by speaking english at home. I'm sorry, but they are my kids, they are good students, and they will just have to deal with it. That's my take.

I am a teacher, and this is one of those "can't win" situations. If I ignore the family that doesn't speak English (and perhaps has left their homeland to make a better life for their own chidlren) and talk to you, I'm a horrible teacher. If I try to help the family struggling with a second language and ignore you, I'm a horrible teacher.

When I mentioned the "no child left behind" above, I was poking fun at the system. It is flawed; almost every teacher I know believes that it is.

Sorry this is so off topic, but it really bothers me that some people believe that teachers wouldn't do eveything to help their children. Often times our hands are tied by what the school and state demand of us.

 

[Jilly16]

I am going to Disney and will be missing 5 days of 11th grade honors chemistry and other difficult courses. I don't know how I'm going to get caught up! On my trip request form, I had to put "To experience the natural resources and customs of Florida" as the purpose for my trip. If I would have put that I was going to Disney, I can guarantee you they wouldn't approve my trip. If they don't approve my trip, I'm still going...I got my plane tickets, my park tickets, and my MNSSHP ticket.

 

[seashoreCM]

I ... will be missing 5 days of 11th grade honors chemistry and other difficult courses. I don't know how I'm going to get caught up! .

Start tonight on the chemistry and other schoolwork you expect to miss. Skip the television and the talking to friends on the cell phone. Try to arrange some extra laboratory time, perhaps after hours, before you go. From what you said, you are probably one of those students who should think long and hard about missing school this time even if your permission slip is approved.

Will mom and dad allow your bed to stay unmade and the cobwebs to remain up while you keep at your studies?

 

[brbenoit]

I think you are comparing two very different things here. When a teacher is absent, for any reason, a responsible, trained adult fills in. The curriculum continues (if it is for a long period of time, such as maternity leave) and children continue learning. In CT, any long-term sub position must be filled by a certified teacher.
I hope your above quote is written slightly in jest. To suggest there should be a penalty for female teachers to have a child is ridiculous. And remember, we're not penalizing your kids. We are making sure there is "no child left behind." Wait. . . don't get me on that subject!

Yes it was in jest, for the most part. But if a teacher where to take a long term asbsense for legitimate reasons, even a fully qualified subsitute would have some disruption in the curiculum as they "get up to speed" with that particular class. I would say that it would be just about as disruptive as a child missing a week of school. I use pregnancy as an example because some people say you can't plan it around time off of school (due date being a week or two after the end of school) but parents are expected to have jobs that allow them to take vacations when it best serves the shcools.

I am in no way criticizing any teachers, they aren't the ones who make the policies, they are just stuck living within them.

 

[brbenoit]

Believe me, as an insider (teacher) I agree with you. In the state's eyes, attaching money to attendance provides incentive for keeping kids in school. The trouble is, schools aren't businesses and no matter how hard we try, there's no business model that works.

I hope I didn't sound too defensive. Both my kids are through school and I really am glad they got the education they did, when they did and where they did, but I am glad they are through, and we were fortunate to have somehow done the right things for their success.

BTW, we took them out for two days when they were in third and fifth grade for an extended trip to Williamsburg (sounds pretty educational doesn't it).

I don't take any offense by people sounding defensive. The problems is that it is a government entity that controls that revenue stream and the distribution isn't based on success nor can a school "fail" like a business.

I see more problems generally in the administraiton than in the individual schools.

 

[carrie1626]

Just wait until they reach high school and have manditory sports practice all of August! They didn't get out of school until June 13. That left us with only a month and a few weeks of vacation. That still did not stop us from taking him out a week for Disney.

totally understand "mandatory practice in August". My kids are in Middle / High school now. My personal feelings about this very subject are : if your children do well in school (A's and B's), NO ONE should stop you from vacationing when it fits "your" schedule. But if MY kids didn't do well in school, I'd be using "Disney money" at a tutoring center.

 

[jultomzach]

I am very familiar with PA truancy law, actually read the law this week. You can potentially be fined if your child has more than 3 unexcused absences in a school year. The fine can be up to $300 and you can receive fines for each additional unexcused days. This is indeed a result of a democracy as was passed in the state senate with elected officials. Some of the law is incredibly dated (can be exempted from mandatory school attendance at the age of 14 if working on a farm, etc) Of course districts can make their own additional rules but still have to follow state law. It really depends on the district's pursuit of unexcused absences. There is a 2006 state initiative focusing on increasing school attendance (with lots of pressure from the Federal government and the No Child Left Behind law). I would recommend that you check your district's website regarding unexcused absence. Briefly, if your children are 8 - 16 years of age, they must attend school. How strict each district pursues fines for parents can be different from district to district ( or even from school to school within a district). That being said...I am off to Disney this Thursday with my 2nd grader. I requested 2 days as excused (sent the request in August) and have not heard back yet. Going anyway!

 

[DiszyDeanette]

my DW thinks that if for some reason they dont approve the planned vacation slip for 8 school days in october and we go anyway, which we will cause we already have over 3 grand non refundable into it, that when we get back we can be arrested. i say that they cannot do anything of the sort. she seems to think the school system is a totalitarian government in and of itself and i say they cannot tell you when and where you can go. anyone have any experience with this situation?

That's ridiculous. If anybody gives you lip, let them know you will be withdrawing your child from their school to home school or got to private school. They don't want kids leaving for vacation, because they don't want their ADA money docked. Let them know they will get NO ADA $ and they will change their tune. Every district has a set number of days, or percentage of days that can be missed. Look into your district's policy, and let them know, that under no uncertain circumstances, this is your child, not theirs.

 

[jultomzach]

I would not recommend threatening the district, particularly with home schooling and private schools -unless this is something that you want to pursue. Each state has laws about school attendance. The research outcomes for children that miss a lot of school is very poor. I know we are only talking a few days. Most districts are more concerned about children that are constantly truant or absent. (By the way, if the district pursues fining- you appear before the local magistrate) Much of the pressure for increasing school attendance is directly connected to the strict guidelines of the No Child Left Behind. This is a Federal law - again was passed be elected officials. Who is responsible for these laws? WE ALL ARE! Finally, to say that school district administration is only concerned about dollars is a nasty allegation and unfair. Do they worry about dollars, certainly! But I am friends with many administrators, most of them care dearly about the children and families that they serve. Good Luck with this.

 

[kvogel11202]

I am a teacher, and this is one of those "can't win" situations. If I ignore the family that doesn't speak English (and perhaps has left their homeland to make a better life for their own chidlren) and talk to you, I'm a horrible teacher. If I try to help the family struggling with a second language and ignore you, I'm a horrible teacher.

When I mentioned the "no child left behind" above, I was poking fun at the system. It is flawed; almost every teacher I know believes that it is.

Sorry this is so off topic, but it really bothers me that some people believe that teachers wouldn't do eveything to help their children. Often times our hands are tied by what the school and state demand of us.

I certainly wasn't criticizing teachers in general, my father was a teacher for over 25 years. I have absolute respect for what they deal with every day. My point was she was very rude to me about taking my son - who gets excellent grades and does well on standardized tests- yet she spends countless time working with non-english speaking students while my son just sits there. So she can waste my time, and my sons time, but how dare I ask her to give him some schoolwork to do while I take him out of school. It was her bad attitude that got me. My son's test scores aren't what's dragging down the average, and my other childrens teachers , the 2nd grader previously mentioned and my daughter in the 7th grade, have no problem with it. Again, both are good students, my daughter is high honor roll. I'm going ot take my kids, we are going to have a great time, and she can keep her opinion to herself!

 

[ocd4disney]

the rule is that if the child doesn't have the vaccine and someone at the school gets chicken pox- and this is everytime- they have to miss 20 days of school. Yet I can't take them out for 5 days to go on a family vacation?

WOW....20 days? I thought the rules in my district were bad!! My dd could not go to school for at least 7 days since the first outbreak. She has had the shot so she wasn't sick that long. The sad thing is that she didn't have any symptoms prior to the spots breaking out.....you know she exposed half the school! It makes me feel a little guilty but how could I have known?

And like I posted earlier, the amount of make up work I picked up for her was a joke. She only had 15 worksheets (easy worksheets) and she easily finished in only a couple of hours. For at least as long as she is in elementary school, I will not worry so much about pulling her out for a Disney trip. Although, I also agree with the poster (sorry don't remember who said it) who said if their kids were doing poorly in school, then their Disney dollars would go toward tutoring. I feel very fortunate that my children (so far) do very well in school.