The fast pass "rumor"

[Dean]

I have to disagree on this one because of how they have set up and promoted the MYW tickets. They have made it very cheap to go to Disney parks on the days you purchase above 5 days. That is encouraging people to keep going to the Disney park on extended trips. Setting up a FP system to discourage going to the parks would counter that effort. Wouldn't make business sense to sabotage your own program. So it would make sense to me that the FP would encourage park visits.

No one can speak for Disney, not even Disney at times. Remember it is a separate question at it relates to DVC. The MYW tickets aren't necessarily cheaper and not any less confusing it appears than the old system. It's not like Disney made it easier and cheaper, they really didn't for most people. In fact, for most guests, it'll likely be more expensive now than in the past.

Regardless, DVC is a special breed. As a rule, the rest of the world stays at Disney hotels to attend the parks. Of course they will do other things at times like eat outside the parks, do the minor parks, shopping, etc. DVC members are far more likely to go to WDW and not go to the parks or at least go less than the guests at the on site regular hotels. I stand by my belief that Disney is not at all interested in promoting DVC members going to the parks. Their goal is maximum use of ALL facilities and maximum profit. Ever go to DD during the day on weekdays compared to nights and weekends?

 

[SoCalKDG]

I think Disney is thinking the other way. They usually have enough people going to the park, I actually think Disney would rather have people staying on property and NOT going to the parks.

I'd have to disagree with you. If you take a look at Disney's financials it might change your way of thinking.

Admissions, hotels, and other expenses(food, souvineers, etc.) are pretty equally split for WDW income(info from Walt Disney financials). They aren't going to jeopardize two of the items(admissions and other) just to help hotels when hotels are only earning them 1/3 of their income.

Since they wouldn't be getting anything from DVC, but we are already there at WDW, what do they do to get us into the park to spend our money on a Disney Park and to buy up gobs of souvineers while eating ourselves around the world(instead of cooking in our 1 bedroom). Why 4 FP might do the trick. Reserve them from your room the night before. Walk over to Epcot, pay to get in, ride your rides, eat lunch, buy something for the daughter, etc., etc., etc.

 

[SoCalKDG]

http://www.jimhillmedia.com/mb/articles/showarticle.php?ID=1449

I had to search around for this. I've been outta the loop and this surprised me. I didn't know what ya'll were talking about! Maybe this link will help some of us who didn't know about the rumor.

Anyway, not sure I like what I read in that article. Sounds a little like Vegas to me. Not very Disney like. From what I gathered the amount of fastpasses you receive is not only based on the level of resort you stay at, but also the amount of your spending. So I'm assuming the fastpasses will be connected to your room keys and the amount given based on your room charges. (We never use our room keys to charge!) Kinda tacky to me.

First, there are many different directions Disney can go in the future(remember this is all talk) based off the patents. The facts show patents for many, many variations on FP. The rumor by Jim Hill was the spin he put on the facts.

They might keep the existing system at a reduced volume of 70% of the current FP, then they give the other 30% to their onsite hotel guests. Or they give every onsite guest a chance to get 3 FP the day before, but this would then limit how many they could get that specific day. Or maybe they give every guest the oppurtunity to reserve 3 FP's, but deluxe gets a one hour earlier window to reserve their times?

Many, many different posibilities. As I mentioned above, room income makes up only a 1/3 of their total Park income.

Now lets imagine every onsite guest gets a chance to get max three FP, with the balance still availabe at the parks. With the knowledge of the previous days FP reservations, Disney now knows when and where their parks are going to be crowded. This knowledge alone helps in the operation of the park.

 

[DVCPAT]

Regardless, DVC is a special breed. As a rule, the rest of the world stays at Disney hotels to attend the parks. Of course they will do other things at times like eat outside the parks, do the minor parks, shopping, etc. DVC members are far more likely to go to WDW and not go to the parks or at least go less than the guests at the on site regular hotels. I stand by my belief that Disney is not at all interested in promoting DVC members going to the parks. Their goal is maximum use of ALL facilities and maximum profit. Ever go to DD during the day on weekdays compared to nights and weekends?

I think DVC members have more WDW disposable income than the average guest. Disney wants us to spend 100% of it on-site, that’s the only reason they give members an annual pass discount.

DVC members are the only guests, which can virtually stay on-site and not give Disney one dime if they choose. I remember asking the DVC salesperson, how will Disney benefit once I pass the break-even point for DVC accommodations? He stated Disney makes the most profit with the theme parks (Admission fees, meals, souvenirs…). Disney must keep repeat visitors happy or they might venture off-site and try the competition.

 

[simpilotswife]

It doesn't make sense at this point to speculate. It only gets people whipped into a frenzy about nothing.

Disney has never provided "above and beyond" park perks to the people staying at deluxes (other than the AK sunrise safari for concierge guests). Any privileges for onsite guests are applied equally from Concierge GF to the Value resorts.

I would think that Disney included the financial permutations to cover all their bases for the future. That being said I think it would be foolish for Disney to assume that someone staying at the GF would spend more money than someone staying at a Value.

Some people who stay at the Values may prefer to spend that few hundred extra per day going to character meals and dinner shows rather than their hotel. People may also prefer to pay cash or use travelers checks instead of using their room keys so tracking their spending that way may also prove to be a difficult endeavor.

Another area that Disney would have to factor into resort spending is the number of trips that a family will make. As someone else pointed out, that family at the GF may be taking a once in a lifetime trip while a family at a Value resort may be on their 4th trip of the year.

 

[Dean]

I'd have to disagree with you. If you take a look at Disney's financials it might change your way of thinking.

Admissions, hotels, and other expenses(food, souvineers, etc.) are pretty equally split for WDW income(info from Walt Disney financials). They aren't going to jeopardize two of the items(admissions and other) just to help hotels when hotels are only earning them 1/3 of their income.

Since they wouldn't be getting anything from DVC, but we are already there at WDW, what do they do to get us into the park to spend our money on a Disney Park and to buy up gobs of souvineers while eating ourselves around the world(instead of cooking in our 1 bedroom). Why 4 FP might do the trick. Reserve them from your room the night before. Walk over to Epcot, pay to get in, ride your rides, eat lunch, buy something for the daughter, etc., etc., etc.

Remember we're only talking DVC guests and not the entire crowd. I was pointing out that it's in Disney's best interest to spread the guests out to spend money at all venues. ONE way to do this is to not encourage DVC members to go to the parks quite as much. That way they have patronage at other money making areas. I'm sure it's a gamble but I doubt most people will spend much money off property, even if they go don't go to the parks.

DVCPAT, it's only speculation about why Disney offered the AP discount. Your take is a little different than mine. My take is two fold. First, that DVC asked for a replacement since the LOS discount was going away. Second is that Disney likely felt the AP type ticket option would generate more business with people just going for a couple of hours here and there, maybe just going for dinner or lunch or the like. I definitely don't agree that it was to get the members to spend more time in the parks because they're afraid they'll spend money off property. My guess is most DVC members spend VERY little off property while staying on property even if they don't go to the parks. I'd estimate that DVC members spend at least 90%, if not 95%, of their total dollars on property if you start the clock when they check in and stop it when they check out. But it's all speculation on all of our part though I'm sure Disney has pretty good numbers to know for sure. If their goal was to get us at the parks every minute, they'd offer a substantial discount on almost every ticket option. Since they don't, I have to conclude otherwise.

 

[Mike]

I think Disney is thinking the other way. They usually have enough people going to the park, I actually think Disney would rather have people staying on property and NOT going to the parks.

I really do not think this is true. Granted I am a new member, but less than a year ago I was reading all about the DVC survey that members were being mailed about their park attendance habits and different spins on a member discount. Then the DVC AP discount was announced and it turned out to be on the higher end of what members were expecting. This makes me believe that Disney is very interested in keeping DVC members on site and in the parks. I also agree with the assertion that including members in this new fastpass scheme (should it ever materialize) is a cheap way for Disney to continue to pursue their objective of maximizing their profit from a captive audience.
Disney not wanting us to go to the parks just does not seem logical to me at all.

 

[crisi]

I think I may be the one who convinced Dean Disney doesn't care if we are in their parks or not.

Here is my theory:

After park admission, DVC members don't spend more on souvieniers simply by being in the park. We go to Disney often enough not to need a new Mickey Mouse t-shirt or cap with every trip into a park.

But, we use resources in the parks. The biggest one is that we add to the traffic on an attraction. Which increases wait times. Which decreases satisfaction of other guests - the guests Disney wants to turn into repeat customers (we already are). One of the big complaints I hear from people who did Disney once and won't ever do it again is the amount of time they spent waiting in lines.

Particularly with an AP, we don't add revenue (which is why I used to say they wouldn't give us an AP discount - but I was wrong, to the pleasure of many DVC members). Every extra day in the park past our break even point for an AP holder is just a resource drain for Disney.

But meals! We eat meals in the parks! And its my belief that Disney thinks we will continue to eat our meals on property, just using the less utilized hotel and DTD restaurants and leaving the theme park restaurants (few that have problems being booked) for non-DVCer.

However, with giving us an AP and the DDE for AP holders (another thing I can't work my way around finding a business justification for - given the simultanous release of MYW dining - although I think its a nice perk and I'm glad AP holders have it), I now think Disney doesn't think like I do.

 

[CarolMN]

.....(snip)..... I now think Disney doesn't think like I do.

Oh, sure they do! They just have facts and data to work with. They're bound to reach different conclusions than those of us who only have anecdotal evidence, personal observation and speculation to work with, LOL! But where would the fun be in that?

Best wishes -

 

[CharlesTD]

We do not spend more at the parks either we pack a lunch to take in and we go offsite to the outlets to buy souveniers Belz has a great Disney outlet that we shop at all the time. You will even find current merch in there like snowglobes our last trip we bought a snowglobe there for 35 dollars that was still for sale at OKW for 85.

 

[NMW]

I doubt our level of buying merchandise in the parks and DTD will ever go down. Even though we are DVC, we still only plan to go one time per year (for 9 days), as we have school age children. Children who want Disney merchandise! We also buy gifts, esp. in Epcot, and stuff for DH and myself.

The discount on the PAP IS IN FACT keeping us on Disney property for our next 2 trips. We plan to use the PAP's for Dec 2005 and Oct 2006. Before the AP discount was announced, we planned to go to SeaWorld during the Dec trip and Universal during the Oct trip. We were just going to buy the Park hoppers for the days we would be in Disney.
We scraped all of that once the discount came out. We bought the PAP's and the DDE card. That is more time in Disney parks and more money on Disney property. We do not plan to ever cook on vacation (we did not buy DVC for the kitchen ), so that's 3 meals we eat on Disney property all 9 days we are there.

Maybe Disney thought of families like ours, when giving the discount. It is after all keeping us from spending money at other parks on admission, food, and merchandise.

I also think that's their logic behing the very cheap MYW dining option. We have friends that scraped stying at the nick kids suites in favor of the YC, just so they can get the dining option! They love to eat out and were blown away by how great it will work for their family of 5. Even though Disney may lose some money with the dining plan (like allowing adults to eat using children's credits) they are making up the $$ for every family that decides to stay at the YC instead of offsite. Just my theory!

 

[DVCconvert]

DVC members don't spend more on souvieniers simply by being in the park. We go to Disney often enough not to need a new Mickey Mouse t-shirt or cap with every trip into a park

You must have alot more willpower then us!
We're always buying stuff for family & friends. Our membership has really not effected the amount of merchandise we buy. As to meals, if anything, our membership has slightly decreased eating out, as the easy of fixing almost every breakfast and several dinners each trip has reduced our meals purchased.

 

[Pinnie]

My guess is most DVC members spend VERY little off property while staying on property even if they don't go to the parks. I'd estimate that DVC members spend at least 90%, if not 95%, of their total dollars on property if you start the clock when they check in and stop it when they check out.

I am not quite so sure of this statement. DH and I are "older" DVC members in our early 50s. We have used our points to attend DCI events at the Citrus Bowl every year and never step foot in a park during these stays even though we are AP holders. Last year in July we were at SSR, this year I am staying at VWL in June for the show. As we age, the parks will become less and less appealing to us, but the draw of warm weather and a beautiful resort to stay will be what brings us back.

Yes, we use the parks during our other visits in Dec., Aug., and Easter, but we are learning to go offsite and see more of what Florida has to offer besides Disney.

pinnie

 

[rocketriter]

We stay in DVC lodgings, plan to start using the AP and DDE on our next trip, and spend a fortune in the parks on every trip. (And I'm just as bad about this as anyone else in the family.)

 

[Dean]

I am not quite so sure of this statement. DH and I are "older" DVC members in our early 50s. We have used our points to attend DCI events at the Citrus Bowl every year and never step foot in a park during these stays even though we are AP holders. Last year in July we were at SSR, this year I am staying at VWL in June for the show. As we age, the parks will become less and less appealing to us, but the draw of warm weather and a beautiful resort to stay will be what brings us back.

Yes, we use the parks during our other visits in Dec., Aug., and Easter, but we are learning to go offsite and see more of what Florida has to offer besides Disney.

pinnie

My speculation of course and it's based on overall dollars which goes further off property. And it would vary with whether one had a car or not as well. But I think those that feel Disney is hurting because DVC members are spending a lot of money elsewhere WHILE STAYING ON PROPERTY, are simply kidding themselves.

 

[DVCPAT]

My speculation of course and it's based on overall dollars which goes further off property. And it would vary with whether one had a car or not as well. But I think those that feel Disney is hurting because DVC members are spending a lot of money elsewhere WHILE STAYING ON PROPERTY, are simply kidding themselves.

I don’t think Disney is hurting, but they don’t want aging DVC members visiting the competition. I think Disney understands DVC members visit WDW more than any other type of guest. Over time, the novelty will begin to fade and they will have to entice older members from straying off-site.

Disney spends tens of millions of dollars adding new rides and shows to give repeat customers a good reason to come back. DVC members probably have more disposable income than the average guest, so they would be the last customers you would want to see venture off-site.

 

[jade1]

Pretty interesting. I can see both sides. Give us 2 or 3 preplanned FP's per day and we would be happy.

Wonder if a lot of folks would plan a bunch of passes every day and never show up anyway.

 

[doubletrouble_vb]

In re FP's... I could see Disney restricting some aspect of upgraded access to them to deluxe hotels. Maybe only 1/3 of the revenue comes from hotels but if you can fill your deluxes with people more often during the year without emptying out your mod's and values...wouldn't the percentage share rise a bit? Even if it stays the same it could be a flood waters raise all boats scenario. Fill up your deluxes with people who will spend lots of money in the parks.

So for example if someone staying at a deluxe wanted to reserve a specific FP time Disney could free up a small percentage of each time slot for people staying at those hotels. You could then advertise it as priority benefit for staying in those hotels by way of travel agents, AAA and the Disney website. No need to blab it all over tv. In a way its similar to the benefit of staying at Animal Kingdom Lodge...a private savanna or the fireworks views from Magic Kingdom and EPCOT hotels.

This would also have the benefit of drawing some deluxe guests from the Swan/Dolphin and other higher priced hotels. As long as the impact on the masses is minimal something like this seems like a win for Disney.

PS. In this event I would imagine that the DVC'ers staying at VWL, BCV or BWV would have the benefit. OKW and SSR I dunno. Its all speculation in any case.

 

[Ksp]

http://www.jimhillmedia.com/mb/articles/showarticle.php?ID=1449

I had to search around for this. I've been outta the loop and this surprised me. I didn't know what ya'll were talking about! Maybe this link will help some of us who didn't know about the rumor.
.

Thanks for posting the link, lenshanem. I didn't know the source of the discussion, so I appreciate you doing that.
Certainly has opened an interesting discussion; it will be interesting to see how Disney uses the patent to leverage the guest market.