The EpiPen that cost $75 in 2001 costs over $300 today

[mefordis]

Why can't we just have Medicare for everyone? With what most people pay into insurance annually, plus Medicare, couldn't that cover everyone for Medicare, not just 65+. My in laws have almost everything paid for with Medicare, and the LIVE in the doctor's office.

 

[bcla]

No, there are no limits. You can be in the hospital for six months and have every machine IN the hospital hooked up to you and you don't get charged a penny. There's also no charges at all for ER visits, no matter how long you are there. I don't know what you are referring to when you say visiting outside the province, so I can't answer that part for you. Of course our healthcare system is perfect, I know it's not. I've had to wait two months for a non essential MRI, but I have also read here that's it's on average $3000 for an MRI if you have no insurance? I had three in December alone. No way could I pay that (please correct me if I'm wrong). To know that I won't become bankrupt paying for all my drs and appointments and tests and everything else, I'll gladly put up with the flaws.

I heard it might be different depending on the province. However, private US health insurance often has good coverage when abroad. Manitoba says they'll cover up to $100 for an emergency room visit outside of Canada. They recommend supplemental insurance.

http://www.gov.mb.ca/health/mhsip/leavingmanitoba.html

However, my point was that what Americans are complaining about isn't Canadian-style single payer. We have a system that didn't necessarily fix anything since private insurers are still around and medical costs aren't being controlled, but rather shifted around.

 

[mom2rtk]

My in laws have almost everything paid for with Medicare, and the LIVE in the doctor's office.

That's why we can't have Medicare for everyone.

 

[mom2rtk]

We've certainly seen stories on the news of people being kicked out of hospital beds and put in cabs to be sent who knows where.. I also know that's the exception, not the rule.

FWIW, some of those people being kicked out might have been the ones WITH health insurance.

 

[kimblebee]

I heard it might be different depending on the province. However, private US health insurance often has good coverage when abroad. Manitoba says they'll cover up to $100 for an emergency room visit outside of Canada. They recommend supplemental insurance.

http://www.gov.mb.ca/health/mhsip/leavingmanitoba.html

However, my point was that what Americans are complaining about isn't Canadian-style single payer. We have a system that didn't necessarily fix anything since private insurers are still around and medical costs aren't being controlled, but rather shifted around.

LOL thanks for the link but I know I need insurance if I leave the country. It's been drilled into my head since I was old enough to cross the border on my own that even if you're just going for two minutes to pick up a package, you don't do it without Blue Cross. My mom was in Grand Forks and ended up having her first gallbladder attack and she ended up in the hospital for three or four days. Her bill was thousands and thousands of dollars, luckily she had insurance so it was covered.

 

[bcla]

OK. Apparently there is a 1 ml alternative that doesn't come in glass ampules. Nurses seem to universally hate ampules after cutting themselves breaking them open, and some worry about tiny glass shards (some use filters). At least one company sells them in vials with the foil top, and I'm pretty sure they're cheap.

Still, preparing one of these things on the spot would seem to be difficult when seconds count.

 

[robinb]

I'm sorry if I misread your quote. But when you interpret what I say as "screw you" it sure comes across as personalizing it.

I read it as "I had mine and was happy" before the ACA came along and ruined everything.

 

[mom2rtk]

I read it as "I had mine and was happy" before the ACA came along and ruined everything.

That's not the same as "screw you." I'm sorry you read it that way.

What I had and was happy with had absolutely nothing to do with the PP who doesn't even live in the same country as me.

 

[EveDallas]

That's not the same as "screw you." I'm sorry you read it that way.

What I had and was happy with had absolutely nothing to do with the PP who doesn't even live in the same country as me.

I think what they mean is it came across a lot like "I had what I needed so I didn't really care about others who didn't"

 

[mom2rtk]

I think what they mean is it came across a lot like "I had what I needed so I didn't really care about others who didn't"

They you and the others were reading something that wasn't there.

I'm the first to admit the system was flawed and something needed to be done. I just think they went the wrong direction with it, and just switched up who the winners and losers were.

 

[kamik86]

No, but the burden of paying would be shifted to "someone else" like it was before so many were on high deductible plans.

"Before" - people paid their premiums and then paid $10, $20, $30, etc for each co-pay for each "encounter" (office visit, prescription, etc).

"After" - people paid their premiums but now, with high deductible plans, they have to pay 100% of their medical costs until their out of pocket maximum is met.

Before you paid in little bits throughout the year. Now it is front loaded and you pay a bunch all at once at the beginning until the OOP max is met.

One issue is that no plan is going to be best for everyone.

For me the way it is now actually is cheaper. Because I am relatively healthy (I'm obese but not on any medications besides birth control, no chronic conditions, and have only ever been in the hospital as a patient once) as is my husband that goes to doctors even less then I do. Because of this we actually are paying less because our premiums went down and the only visits we have are 0 out of pocket preventative ones.


Others at my job hate the coverage we have now (which I think is pretty good) becasue they go to doctors much more often, they have kids that play sports and break bones or have a condition that requires expensive perscriptiosn etc. They hate this plan. Because they meet their deductible each year but only by a little bit.

 

[bcla]

I think what they mean is it came across a lot like "I had what I needed so I didn't really care about others who didn't"

Our system was always broken. There was always uninsured coverage that was passed along to the insured. It was passed on unevenly though, as different insurers managed to negotiate different rates. On top of that, most medium to large companies were self-insured. The insurance card may say Blue Cross or United Healthcare, but they were just the plan administrator that also allowed companies to take advantage of their negotiated rates.

http://www.siia.org/i4a/pages/Index.cfm?pageID=4546

However, what we have now was one of the big things that few people thought of as bad, which was eliminating denial for preexisting conditions.

 

[EveDallas]

Our system was always broken. There was always uninsured coverage that was passed along to the insured. It was passed on unevenly though, as different insurers managed to negotiate different rates. On top of that, most medium to large companies were self-insured. The insurance card may say Blue Cross or United Healthcare, but they were just the plan administrator that also allowed companies to take advantage of their negotiated rates.

http://www.siia.org/i4a/pages/Index.cfm?pageID=4546

However, what we have now was one of the big things that few people thought of as bad, which was eliminating denial for preexisting conditions.

My son has had Type 1 diabetes since he was a toddler. Why should he have been denied insurance for something he has zero control over? Without insurance to pay for his insulin, he would literally die.

 

[bcla]

My son has had Type 1 diabetes since he was a toddler. Why should he have been denied insurance for something he has zero control over? Without insurance to pay for his insulin, he would literally die.

I generally agree that denying based on preexisting conditions should be unacceptable. However, that was often how insurers or self-insurers kept their costs down. It's not as if there aren't costs that are spread through higher premiums, higher deductibles/copays, etc. I think it's a societal good, but someone has to pay for it. Insurance is really about spreading costs, but there are obviously those insured who cost more.

It created situations where employees were often unwilling to change jobs because it would mean losing coverage, at least temporarily. I remember getting individual coverage a few years ago, and I had to fill out a long application with a statement of preexisting conditions. I understood that some insurers wouldn't cover any expensive preexisting conditions, while others might not for a set period.

 

[kimblebee]

I think what they mean is it came across a lot like "I had what I needed so I didn't really care about others who didn't"

That's EXACTLY what I meant. Thank you for saying it better than I did

 

[mom2rtk]

That's EXACTLY what I meant. Thank you for saying it better than I did

And once again, I'm sorry you chose to read something into it that wasn't there.

 

[TLSnell1981]

They you and the others were reading something that wasn't there.

I'm the first to admit the system was flawed and something needed to be done. I just think they went the wrong direction with it, and just switched up who the winners and losers were.

They knew EXACTLY what would happen.

If it sounds too good to be true? It probably is.

 

[TheJuiciestOfJs]

At that dose I don't even think they call them vials. There are big vials with maybe 100 times the dose (30 mg total) of an EpiPen, and designed to be used for multiple doses for whatever purpose. There are also different concentrations. While it costs less than an EpiPen, that's probably enough to kill someone if stressed out and they even make the tiniest of mistakes and injects too much. I was reading that the 1 ml versions come in glass "ampules" that need to be broken, and I don't believe they're generally sold for emergency anaphylaxis treatment, but for other more controlled uses. I guess that's easy enough when not stressed out. If I were panicking, I don't know if I could keep the ampule vertical enough to avoid spilling it, and in any case it has to be snapped off. Then it would need to be drawn with the syringe. On top of that, it could still be dangerous or even fatal to give too much since it has 3 times the dose of an EpiPen.

I remember someone doing a presentation in class, and the subject was the instructions for his allergy shots. He showed a used old-fashioned syringe that was preloaded by the manufacturer with epinephrine. It came with a bunch of instructions on a piece of paper. I don't think these are even sold any more. Then he showed us his unused EpiPen, how the instructions were clear (and on the device) and said something about how it would probably feel like getting stabbed.

Just Now catching up on the boards. yeah the epinephrine vials come in 30mL quantities so there is obviously way more than needed, but my point was even at that quantity it's still so much cheaper than an epipen. Also stressing that you have to be comfortable with drawing up the correct dose to use that method.

As far as amuples go, you have to have filter needles to draw up the dose and then change the needle after drawing it up to prevent and glass shards from opening the ampule, a less viable option.

 

[bcla]

Just Now catching up on the boards. yeah the epinephrine vials come in 30mL quantities so there is obviously way more than needed, but my point was even at that quantity it's still so much cheaper than an epipen. Also stressing that you have to be comfortable with drawing up the correct dose to use that method.

As far as amuples go, you have to have filter needles to draw up the dose and then change the needle after drawing it up to prevent and glass shards from opening the ampule, a less viable option.

I found that there is 1 ml epinephrine availability in far more than just glass ampules. I was reading something on allnurses where they were discussing all the tricks to open them along with war stories about cutting fingers in front of patients. They were also mentioning that they often had to explain to pharmacists what the filters were.

Earlier I posted a photo of Adrenalin brand ephinephrine in 1 ml 1:1000 dose vials with a "septum" (I looked it up) top. This is of course the kind of container I've seen when my kid goes in to vaccinations.

 

[TheJuiciestOfJs]

I found that there is 1 ml epinephrine availability in far more than just glass ampules. I was reading something on allnurses where they were discussing all the tricks to open them along with war stories about cutting fingers in front of patients. They were also mentioning that they often had to explain to pharmacists what the filters were.

Earlier I posted a photo of Adrenalin brand ephinephrine in 1 ml 1:1000 dose vials with a "septum" (I looked it up) top. This is of course the kind of container I've seen when my kid goes in to vaccinations.

I noticed the 1mL vials after I posted that, so that's good news.

Yeah there is an art to opening ampules. Taking some gauze and snapping away from you usually does the trick. If you know a pharmacist that doesn't know ampules must be used with a filter needle, find another one. I question their knowledge. I'm not sure where those nurses were that had to tell pharmacists that. Unacceptable in my book.