The difference between possession and consumption of alcohol by a minor?

[Teacher03]

Does anyone know the difference between possession of alcohol by a minor and consumption? Can a minor be charged with possession even if he wasn't drinking and did not have a beer/alcohol in his hands?

 

[pogo791]

Does anyone know the difference between possession of alcohol by a minor and consumption? Can a minor be charged with possession even if he wasn't drinking and did not have a beer/alcohol in his hands?

Yes. As long as he had direct physical control, he has possession. A typical example would be if he had it in his bag, even if he was not holding the bag. Another example (assuming the minor has a driver's license) is if he has the beer in his car.

(I could get into the rarified atmosphere of the distinction between actual possession and constructive possession, but in practice, it is actual possession that is usually involved.)

 

[Teacher03]

Yes. As long as he had direct physical control, he has possession. A typical example would be if he had it in his bag, even if he was not holding the bag. Another example (assuming the minor has a driver's license) is if he has the beer in his car.

(I could get into the rarified atmosphere of the distinction between actual possession and constructive possession, but in practice, it is actual possession that is usually involved.)

This is in Ohio. There was no alcohol in the hand, in a bag, in a car, no where near the minor involved. The police report said as such. The kid was an idiot for being at the party (he's 20), but did not have possession or consume any alcohol. He was denied the opportunity to take a breathalizer, the officer just told him to go to court and plead no contest. At the party, they divided the kids by asking "Did you have anything to drink?" If they answered yes, they were given a breathlizer and charged accordingly. If no, they were asked to count to ten, touch their nose, and every one that passed that test was given possession. Should he plead no contest? What are the options?

 

[AKL_Megs]

Sounds fishy to me, and my DH is a cop.

Either some kid at that party was a real idiot and ruined it for everyone, or the kid HAD alcohol and is lying to his parents.

Honestly, if he was IN the house, he's in posession. Cops aren't stupid... It was a party, with obviously abundant alcohol, all of this involving (and I am assuming) mostly minors. I am sure it didn't look like a situation of an adult party where the kids came in and took over... and the cops know this. A bunch of kids were in a house alone with a bunch of alcohol. But that is not the way a cop WANTS to do it. Who wants all of that paperwork? Probably, if everyone would have cooperated (not necessarily THIS kid), they would have scoped out each kid and sent them on their way, but some loud mouth probably ruined it for his friends.

Sorry this kid you know is getting dragged down with his friends, but as my mom ALWAYS told me, "You are judged by the company you keep."

 

[AKL_Megs]

Honestly, I see it going nowhere in court... How many kids got citations?

 

[Teacher03]

Sounds fishy to me, and my DH is a cop.

Either some kid at that party was a real idiot and ruined it for everyone, or the kid HAD alcohol and is lying to his parents.

Honestly, if he was IN the house, he's in posession. Cops aren't stupid. But that is not the way a cop WANTS to do it. Who wants all of that paperwork? Probably, if everyone would have cooperated (not necessarily THIS kid), they would have scoped out each kid and sent them on their way, but some loud mouth probably ruined it for his friends.

Sorry this kid you know is getting dragged down with his friends, but as my mom ALWAYS told me, "You are judged by the company you keep."

Thanks for answering. He was in the house, but he came out because he was worried about getting accused of drinking. More than 15 kids hid in the house and they got away with it. Some outside were drinking and charged with consumption. Hard lesson learned, but it better be the last of his stupidity for a while.

 

[AKL_Megs]

Thanks for answering. He was in the house, but he came out because he was worried about getting accused of drinking. More than 15 kids hid in the house and they got away with it. Some outside were drinking and charged with consumption. Hard lesson learned, but it better be the last of his stupidity for a while.

See, and this is why it is so fishy to me.

This is why I see it going nowhere in court. He COULD plead down to a lesser charge. Something that won't look so bad on his record. Like I said, if he goes in with the right attitude, hasn't been in trouble before, apologizes, etc., I am sure EVERYONE will be willing to help him out.

What is done is done, the cop can't change what was done on HIS end. Right or wrong, it is done. It's sort of like "the guy who was in the wrong place at the wrong time" kind of deal. I know my DH has to follow the book, but in court, he has been know to help a person out.

I sure hope everything works out! Tell that boy to stay away from situations like that until he's 21!!!

 

[kellyg403]

I am not sure about the 'party' part of the deal. I can tell you that my dd was in a car with a group of friends when she was 19. They were pulled over and evidently there was unopened alcohol in the car. The driver was given a test, he did not pass. All the kids were ticketed for possession for being in the car. My dd did get a lawyer and plead to a lesser charge, I can't remember what it was now. The point in the end was that the kids were going to a party, they were planning to drink the alcohol..I believe it was 4 bottles of Jack Daniels. And none of them were 21. I was kinda p.o'd about the whole thing, but the police officer did have the right to ticket them all. I had always thought it was 'open container' in the car...guess not.

Sometimes, I think it was much easier to be a teen when I was younger. At the same time I understand the rules are the rules. Hard lesson to learn. The police officer actually did them all a favor though, the driver also had some 'illegal' smokes in his pocket and he didn't ticket them for that. I am thinking in the end, he had to ticket them for something and did the alcohol instead of the drug charge. And I agree 100% with the other poster about the company we keep. DD knew this driver liked to party, she took the responsibility to get in the car. I am just thankful that she wasn't drinking at the time. At that age, she wasn't even living at home anymore so there is no way to know who she is hanging out with and what their plans are. Needless to say, she has learned a lesson. She never drove around with that person again, she usually drove herself. So something good came out of the picture..what I had been telling her for years, sunk in when she got that ticket.

Kelly

ETA: I wasn't mad at the officer, but I was surprised that if the kids were getting tickets for possession and all were under 21 that they weren't very dilligent in finding out who/where the alcohol was bought. In my mind, it was fair to get to the bottom of the whole thing.

 

[pogo791]

This is in Ohio. There was no alcohol in the hand, in a bag, in a car, no where near the minor involved. The police report said as such. The kid was an idiot for being at the party (he's 20), but did not have possession or consume any alcohol. He was denied the opportunity to take a breathalizer, the officer just told him to go to court and plead no contest. At the party, they divided the kids by asking "Did you have anything to drink?" If they answered yes, they were given a breathlizer and charged accordingly. If no, they were asked to count to ten, touch their nose, and every one that passed that test was given possession. Should he plead no contest? What are the options?
. . .
He was in the house, but he came out because he was worried about getting accused of drinking. More than 15 kids hid in the house and they got away with it. Some outside were drinking and charged with consumption. Hard lesson learned, but it better be the last of his stupidity for a while.

I hadn't heard about this case, and if I was the kid, I would go to court. Yes, the kid was an idiot for going to the party, but he did leave the house because of his worries. He did not consume or possess alcohol. He was on the property, but from that to being held to have possession of alcohol sounds too long of a stretch.

Like AKL_Megs said, right attitude in court, an apology, and things can work out without anything bad on his record.

And I hope things do work out!

 

[mamacatnv]

In these parts both counts come with fines and drivers license ramifications. If I understand you correctly he was not been breathalyzed to prove consumption and had nothing in his hand, car etc. IMO there is no posession. Just because he was at a party where there was alcohol being consumed does not make him as guilty as those that brought/bought the booze and those that consumed the booze. I'd fight it all the way. Perhaps he was the designated driver?

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

I agree with the posters who say to fight it. If he didn't know that there was going to be alcohol there, he could get off - but he would have to prove that he didn't know (witnesses). If he did know and chose to go anyway, he is going to be found guilty of possession unless he can get one of his friends to testify that he NEVER drinks and that he made it clear to them (the friends) before they went to the party that he had no intention of drinking while there. Then he might get off, but only if the judge believes the witness.

I was pulled over by a police officer after making a beer run while in HS. None of use were drinking, but we had a whole lot of beer and liquor in the trunk. We got an adult to buy for us at the store. The police found it, forced us to pour it out in a ditch while he watched, then let us go with a warning. I never did that again...

 

[clh2]

Sorry - this just sucks. I have a 15 YO DD, and she thinks I am paranoid about such things.

If it were me...based on the assumption that your child is telling the truth...I would lawyer-up.

I've heard stories - possibly from Illinois, where something similar happened with someone's daugher. The case got so far amok that even by the age of 26, their daughter was not able to get her revoked license reinstated.

Now - with my "lawyer-up" comment - I am not against a fair penalty for a stupid decision. Sometimes...I just think that lawyers have a better handle on what is the entire impact.

Good Luck...

 

[Teacher03]

OP here. To be honest, all of his friends say it was ironic that he was one of the ones that were charged, because he rarely goes to parties. It honestly was a case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. But he admitted that he knew there was a good chance that alcohol was going to be served before the party and he obviously did not leave when he should have. Some one posted that there was probably a trouble maker that cause issues for the police department and that is exactly what happened. Another boy resisted arrest and ended up getting tazed. The officers stated he was willing to give everyone a warning and allow them to go home (other than the ones who were clearly intoxicated) until this happened. And that kid is in huge trouble. He isan adult and has been given the option to fight it (the possession charges ) with a lawyer or just go to court and take his chances. Sucks for him, but he says it has made him determined to stay focused on college and stay out of trouble. He's basically a great kid, but unfortunately, I don't know if he is going to get out of this.

 

[Rora]

I think it depends on age and state. I know in Florida, an 18 year old can 'transport' an un-opened container of alcohol like in their car.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

OP here. To be honest, all of his friends say it was ironic that he was one of the ones that were charged, because he rarely goes to parties. It honestly was a case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. But he admitted that he knew there was a good chance that alcohol was going to be served before the party and he obviously did not leave when he should have. Some one posted that there was probably a trouble maker that cause issues for the police department and that is exactly what happened. Another boy resisted arrest and ended up getting tazed. The officers stated he was willing to give everyone a warning and allow them to go home (other than the ones who were clearly intoxicated) until this happened. And that kid is in huge trouble. He isan adult and has been given the option to fight it (the possession charges ) with a lawyer or just go to court and take his chances. Sucks for him, but he says it has made him determined to stay focused on college and stay out of trouble. He's basically a great kid, but unfortunately, I don't know if he is going to get out of this.

Yes that stinks. We read our dd the riot act on all the possession issue regarding drugs and alcohol.

Esp. the one if you have a druggie friend and you get pulled over, the druggie will dump contents into your car and you will be charged.

Get a lawyer and try and get the charges reduced.

It will work out.

 

[taylor1293]

I was charged with possession of alcohol as a minor when I was 18. Simply for being in a tavern, which BTW was perfectly legal. It was a hot spot for underage drinking and it was packed on the night we were there. The cops came in and did a raid and just arrested everyone under the age of 19 (no, not 21...19?).

I, along with my two friends, hired a lawyer. All charges were dismissed.

To the OP, forget the plea to a lesser charge, go for a dismissal.

 

[AKL_Megs]

OP here. To be honest, all of his friends say it was ironic that he was one of the ones that were charged, because he rarely goes to parties. It honestly was a case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. But he admitted that he knew there was a good chance that alcohol was going to be served before the party and he obviously did not leave when he should have. Some one posted that there was probably a trouble maker that cause issues for the police department and that is exactly what happened. Another boy resisted arrest and ended up getting tazed. The officers stated he was willing to give everyone a warning and allow them to go home (other than the ones who were clearly intoxicated) until this happened. And that kid is in huge trouble. He isan adult and has been given the option to fight it (the possession charges ) with a lawyer or just go to court and take his chances. Sucks for him, but he says it has made him determined to stay focused on college and stay out of trouble. He's basically a great kid, but unfortunately, I don't know if he is going to get out of this.

I knew it had to be something like that! But still, that stinks.

Honestly, I think it will go nowhere in court... even my DH (a cop) agrees. I think money spent on a lawyer would be foolish. If he has never been in trouble, police reports do not state that HE was any issue, he has the right attitude, I see it getting dismissed. (My DH also thinks it will get dismissed.)

 

[JerseyMamaBear]

I knew it had to be something like that! But still, that stinks.

Honestly, I think it will go nowhere in court... even my DH (a cop) agrees. I think money spent on a lawyer would be foolish. If he has never been in trouble, police reports do not state that HE was any issue, he has the right attitude, I see it getting dismissed. (My DH also thinks it will get dismissed.)

Agreed. Save your money, and have him speak respectfully to the officer about lowering/dropping the charges or just paying a fine. Even though it was not on his person, he was in possession being that he was in the house where underage minors where present and consuming. He could have left upon arrivng to the party and observing the alcohol but he dident so he was there knowingly. Knowingly commiting an act is enough to cite someone. As far as a breath test goes, most states, not all mind you but most, require operation of a motor vehicle to administer the test. It is not just given out to determine if he was under the influence or not. Im sure in the end it will be fine but if when he goes to court, and if he does not like what the prosecuter is offering then that would be his time to request an adjournment to seek legal advise.

 

[Doctor P]

He was almost certainly guilty of possession in a legal sense and a good prosecutor could probably make the charge stick. That said, I don't think either the police or prosecutor would go to those lengths if the young man was cooperative and is not mentioned extraordinarily in the police report. I would go to court and just tell the truth (no lawyer necessary). I think that the results will be favorable.

I would, however, prepare him to answer the following questions honestly: a) did you see anyone underage drinking at this party?; b) if yes, at what time relative to when the police arrived? c) did you make any effort to call a responsible adult to pick you up and leave the party when you became aware that alcohol was being consumed by minors?

 

[EMom]

This is in Ohio. There was no alcohol in the hand, in a bag, in a car, no where near the minor involved. The police report said as such. The kid was an idiot for being at the party (he's 20), but did not have possession or consume any alcohol. He was denied the opportunity to take a breathalizer, the officer just told him to go to court and plead no contest. At the party, they divided the kids by asking "Did you have anything to drink?" If they answered yes, they were given a breathlizer and charged accordingly. If no, they were asked to count to ten, touch their nose, and every one that passed that test was given possession. Should he plead no contest? What are the options?

I'm a little confused as to the facts, especially the point at which he left the house....was it before or after the police arrived, for example?

But unless the law has changed since I prosecuted MIPs, (at least in this state) simply being a minor in the house where there is alcohol available qualifies as a MIP. One beer and 25 minors in a house? That's still 25 MIPs because in theory, all 25 have access to that illegal beer. (Please don't gritch at me, I'm just explaining how it works, not singing the praises of the law.) The police know good and well that when they arrive at a house and there is underage drinking going on, the minors are going to flee like cockroaches and every single one will put down the alcohol they had in their hand. Many states passed these laws as a way to discourage house parties that allowed (sometimes with parental consent) underage drinking. BTW, the police don't have to give a breathalyzer because the charge is not underage DRINKING, but instead MIP.

Should you fight it? I can't say. Here, fighting it was pretty much useless as our conviction rate was high. Even with a lawyer, they were almost always found guilty. Try and find out what the reality is where you live. The odds are....You won't beat the odds. If the conviction rate is high, aim for a plea bargain that eventually will be wiped clean from his record. If there are frequent dismissals or acquittals, that's another matter entirely. No jurisdiction is exactly the same. How long do you have to decide? Maybe you ought to go sit in on some MIP cases and see for yourself how they go. It could be very enlightening.

My advice to DD will always be, if there is drinking, get the heck out because here, you are a MIP and I don't want that on your record. But that's here and I don't know what it's like where you live.