The difference between Methodists and Baptists?

[wvjules]

Another issue perhaps the Methodists could clarify for everyone: (Southern) Baptist interpretation says that you cannot fall from grace - once saved, always saved. You can fall out of fellowship, but not out of salvation. It is my understanding that some (all?) Methodist doctrine is that you can fall from grace and lose your salvation?

I was baptized as a child. So does this mean that since I was baptized I can't fall from grace even if I'm not sure I believe anymore? (I kinda like that loophole - just in case.)

 

[Golf4food]

I was baptized as a child. So does this mean that since I was baptized I can't fall from grace even if I'm not sure I believe anymore? (I kinda like that loophole - just in case.)

Baptism does not equal salvation. Baptism never saved anyone. I can baptize a rock but it ain't going to Heaven.

 

[Zippa D Doodah]

.

Another oddity to me, but this might be true for baptist also, it stuck out as it isnt how I was used to things being done. We used to interview the prospective pastor, he would preach a Sunday or two, meet the consitory, the church would vote, and if it were for the new pastor we would extend a call to him to come and be our pastor. And sometimes they said no.

We have a new pastor, well, he has been here for a year. He was appointed by the Bishop and we met him when he moved in and gave his first sermon. He isnt really a fit for our family, so we are looking else where. But that happens, and if we have voted I dont know if it would have changed a thing.

I forgot to mention that. Yep, we UM pastors are appointed. Like most things in life, I think this has its ups and downs. I am sorry to hear you don't feel like the current appointment is a good match. My advice to new folks joining our church is not to join because you like me and/or DW. Not that we're all that charming to start with , but you know how it goes... people kind of relate to a certain pastor. If you love your church, keep maintaining ties there if that feels like the right thing to do. We currently have one family worshipping at our church who are long-time members of another UM down the street. Seems that they don't care much for the pastor there now. I told them I would never press them to join us; they would always be welcome here but that I understood how huge a deal -and how heartbreaking -it can be to leave behind a church you love. They like it here, but I will totally understand ifthey go back to their home church someday.

Another issue perhaps the Methodists could clarify for everyone: (Southern) Baptist interpretation says that you cannot fall from grace - once saved, always saved. You can fall out of fellowship, but not out of salvation. It is my understanding that some (all?) Methodist doctrine is that you can fall from grace and lose your salvation?

Short answer to that from a UM... God's grace is perfect and never fails.

What God does in your life can't be rubbed away just because you don't want it there or screw it up. Humans can turn their back on that grace, but the grace is always there. I never did like the phrase "once saved always saved". Like someone said upthread, the kind of salvation inferred here is really more of a Baptist doctrine than a Methodist doctrine.

The Methodist church seems really nice and the people seem great but I thought they expect a lot from their new members right away. I went to Q&A sorta session with them and they stressed about volunteering and giving of money since they're expanding and building a new all purpose center. I have every intention of giving to the church I join(tithe and my time) but the way they focused on that aspect did turn me off slightly. It did feel rather overwhelming and sorta in a way made me question their motives for being so nice, although I'm sure that just was my doubts about churches creeping in because of my childhood experiences.

The kids programs at both place seem great. I think I do like the approach to Sunday school the Methodist have slightly better though.

I was raised Catholic so this is all very new to me,sorry for rambling there. Thanks once again for your help.

I need to tread lightly rather than speak for a congregation/situation I do not know, but I would hope that the UM church you are considering is doing its best to integrate new members into the life of the church when stating its case about expectations. IMO there is and should be a pretty high bar for membership. In the UM church we define it as "prayers, presence, gifts, and service". Every congregation spells that out in its own way. We all need accountability. There should be expectations that we are expected to fulfill. Your path toward tithing, for example, should ultimately be between you and God. But most folks are encouraged to have a spiritual leader inspiring us to set a goal and live toward it. (Is that clear as mud? )

When you join a gym do you want someone to show you how the treadmill works, the weight machines, and the elliptical trainer? Do you want someone to help you reach your physical fitness goals? Or would you rather just have the key to the place and let yourself in? Most people would rather have some guidance, especially at the beginning. The same principle goes for becoming part of a church, regardless of denomination.

 

[goofygirl]

The Methodist will wave to each other in the liquor store.


Seriously, there are significant differences between (United) Methodists and (Southern) Baptists. I am a UM.

- The UM church has a doctrine of grace that is stronger that is different from any other denomination. The bottom line is that we believe God's grace is the strongest thing in the world. That grace is experienced in different forms (prevenient grace, justifying grace, sanctifying grace)

- We UMs believe baptism is an outward sign of something that God is doing on the inside of a person -God being the key word here. Since the grace received in baptism is something God does, we believe in baptising infants. Incidentally, we baptize in any one of three forms -sprinkling, immersion, or pouring (not as common as the other two). Baptists emphasize baptism more as a human response to God. Thus one must be of age to "understand" in order to be baptized.

- We celebrate women in leadership positions -both lay and clergy. I am a UM pastor. For example, I copastor a church along with my wife, also an ordained pastor. Women cannot be clergy in a Southern Baptist church. That's kind of a big nit I have to pick with them, but I guess that's why I'm a Methodist.

- UM churches are connectional. That means each congregation has its own vibrant ministries, but all UM congregations are connected thru commitment to mission, common doctrine (although its a pretty big tent we live under), financial support, etc.

- This varies from place to place, but UMs (clergy and lay) tend to read the Bible less literally. And yes, we read the WHOLE Bible. We do not as a point of doctrine ignore those parts that are incovenient. For the most part, we do not buy into doomsday doctrines squeezed out of apocolyptic books of the Bible (ie. no rapture theology in the UMC)

Hope this helps... Best wishes to you and your family in choosing the church that's right for you.

UM sounds similar to the Anglican/Episcopal Church. Makes sense since Wesley, the founder of Methodism, was an Anglican first.

What's the liturgy like in the UM and Baptist churches?

 

[Galahad]

UM sounds similar to the Anglican/Episcopal Church. Makes sense since Wesley, the founder of Methodism, was an Anglican first.

What's the liturgy like in the UM and Baptist churches?

UM is closer to Episcopal than Baptist is. But within a given UM church there are all flavors - from very formal and ceremonial to very contemporary a free. The liturgical calendar, I believe, is very close to what you'd see in an Episcopal church.

 

[MrsPete]

The Methodist will wave to each other in the liquor store.

There's an old joke: A Jew doesn't recognize Jesus as Lord; a Methodist doesn't recognize Allah as a god; a Baptist doesn't recognize another Baptist at the liquor store.

Believing that the Lord's Supper is a symbolic meal, Baptist churches use grape juice instead of wine for communion. No liquor may be served at church functions (including wedding receptions held on church property); however, most Baptists do not have a problem with drinking in moderation -- which is in accordance with Christ's example in the New Testament.

- The UM church has a doctrine of grace that is stronger that is different from any other denomination. The bottom line is that we believe God's grace is the strongest thing in the world. That grace is experienced in different forms (prevenient grace, justifying grace, sanctifying grace)

Baptists believe this same thing.

- We UMs believe baptism is an outward sign of something that God is doing on the inside of a person -God being the key word here. Since the grace received in baptism is something God does, we believe in baptising infants. Incidentally, we baptize in any one of three forms -sprinkling, immersion, or pouring (not as common as the other two). Baptists emphasize baptism more as a human response to God. Thus one must be of age to "understand" in order to be baptized.

Baptists also beleive that baptism is a public, outward sign of what's gone on inside. Infants are dedicated to the Lord in front of the congregation, but it's the PARENTS who are making a promise -- a promise to raise the child in a Christian household and teach the child about the Lord. The child is not baptised until he, himself, is old enough to make the decision.

 

[MrsPete]

Another issue perhaps the Methodists could clarify for everyone: (Southern) Baptist interpretation says that you cannot fall from grace - once saved, always saved. You can fall out of fellowship, but not out of salvation. It is my understanding that some (all?) Methodist doctrine is that you can fall from grace and lose your salvation?

Baptist doctrine DOES believe "once saved, always saved", though I must admit that I don't understand this concept myself, so I cannot defend it. That doesn't mean it isn't true; it just means I don't grasp it myself. The best I can do is to say that if you fall away from the Lord, perhaps your dedication wasn't true in the first place.

 

[MrsPete]

Baptism does not equal salvation. Baptism never saved anyone. I can baptize a rock but it ain't going to Heaven.

Right. Baptism is a sign to the community that you're a believer. If you'd been a pioneer "back in the day" living all alone on a mountaintop and no one was around to baptise you, you could still be a Christian. If you were to be saved literally on your deathbed, you'd go to heaven even if time never allowed you to be baptised -- of course, no one is suggesting that you wait until you're literally minutes from death!

Baptism is an outward symbol of an inward change. It's not a magical ceremony in which going underwater changes you into a different person.

 

[Buckalew11]

Seriously, there are significant differences between (United) Methodists and (Southern) Baptists. I am a UM.

- The UM church has a doctrine of grace that is stronger that is different from any other denomination. The bottom line is that we believe God's grace is the strongest thing in the world. That grace is experienced in different forms (prevenient grace, justifying grace, sanctifying grace)

- We UMs believe baptism is an outward sign of something that God is doing on the inside of a person -God being the key word here. Since the grace received in baptism is something God does, we believe in baptising infants. Incidentally, we baptize in any one of three forms -sprinkling, immersion, or pouring (not as common as the other two). Baptists emphasize baptism more as a human response to God. Thus one must be of age to "understand" in order to be baptized.

- We celebrate women in leadership positions -both lay and clergy. I am a UM pastor. For example, I copastor a church along with my wife, also an ordained pastor. Women cannot be clergy in a Southern Baptist church. That's kind of a big nit I have to pick with them, but I guess that's why I'm a Methodist.

- UM churches are connectional. That means each congregation has its own vibrant ministries, but all UM congregations are connected thru commitment to mission, common doctrine (although its a pretty big tent we live under), financial support, etc.

- This varies from place to place, but UMs (clergy and lay) tend to read the Bible less literally. And yes, we read the WHOLE Bible. We do not as a point of doctrine ignore those parts that are incovenient. For the most part, we do not buy into doomsday doctrines squeezed out of apocolyptic books of the Bible (ie. no rapture theology in the UMC)

Wow! You are so right. I truly wasn't thinking of all these differeneces!
Baptism is definitely different. And I feel very strongly about it too. I was baptized both as a baby and an older child. For me, the baby baptism meant nothing to me except that my parents were going to try to raise me in church etc. Honestly though, I do not think they even knew what they were doing. My sister was also baptized as a baby and she is pretty much agnostic these days. If no one told you that you had been baptized as a baby would it even occur to you that you had some sort of connection with God through it? From personal experience, I'd say no. Now if you are raised within the church and are then confirmed and know and understand what you believe, then yes, you can understand the relationship better that you are able to have with God through His Grace.

Another issue perhaps the Methodists could clarify for everyone: (Southern) Baptist interpretation says that you cannot fall from grace - once saved, always saved. You can fall out of fellowship, but not out of salvation. It is my understanding that some (all?) Methodist doctrine is that you can fall from grace and lose your salvation?

Yes, this is what Southern Baptists believe. I cannot speak for all Baptists (there are many kinds). Of course, I do believe you could turn away and not believe in God anymore or your heart may not have been sincere in the first place. But, if you commit a sin and fall short, your salvation is not taken away because you screwed up. There's a difference. I hope I am being clear on my view of it.

I know this Baptist church we're looking at doesn't ban dancing since they're having a Family festival Country Hoedown with dancing and all next month. But last week at the Sunday bible study group we went to there was a women who grew up in a Baptist church that didn't allow dancing and her family still attends the church. First thing that popped into my head was no way, just like Footloose!

My kids attended the VBS at the Baptist church and loved it but the one point holding me back is they currently have an interim pastor. I really like him but they'll be getting a new pastor and I wonder if things could change a lot because of that.

The Methodist church seems really nice and the people seem great but I thought they expect a lot from their new members right away. I went to Q&A sorta session with them and they stressed about volunteering and giving of money since they're expanding and building a new all purpose center. I have every intention of giving to the church I join(tithe and my time) but the way they focused on that aspect did turn me off slightly. It did feel rather overwhelming and sorta in a way made me question their motives for being so nice, although I'm sure that just was my doubts about churches creeping in because of my childhood experiences.

The kids programs at both place seem great. I think I do like the approach to Sunday school the Methodist have slightly better though.

I was raised Catholic so this is all very new to me,sorry for rambling there. Thanks once again for your help.

Oh yes, there are individuals in a church who think dancing is a sin, card playing, any type of game with dice, a drink of wine, beer, etc. are all wrong things. I think the some of that view comes from when Jesus was crucified on the cross and they cast lots for his things or something. The Bible teaches that anything that harms or hurts your body is a sin because your body is the temple of God (the Holy Spirit now dwells in you, the believer). That would included smoking, getting drunk, overeating, not exercising etc. etc. etc. It all boild down to we are all not perfect and we commit things considered sinful to God.

My advice is to base this decision on the church itself and the people there not the minister so much. ministers come and go. They are human and make mistakes. The are leaders and yes, you need a good one to lead the church. However, he'll screw up, let you down, say the wrong thing, do the wrong, or move. Sure, you should like the minister but do not base your decision on that alone (and it sounds like you already know that--just that you are wondering who this baptist church may get).

I was baptized as a child. So does this mean that since I was baptized I can't fall from grace even if I'm not sure I believe anymore? (I kinda like that loophole - just in case.)

I think it'd be a nice loophole but I wouldn't count on it. God knows your heart so whether you were baptized as a baby or you were baptized yesterday, that is what is going to make a difference. Not the act itself. JMHO.

IShort answer to that from a UM... God's grace is perfect and never fails.

What God does in your life can't be rubbed away just because you don't want it there or screw it up. Humans can turn their back on that grace, but the grace is always there. I never did like the phrase "once saved always saved". Like someone said upthread, the kind of salvation inferred here is really more of a Baptist doctrine than a Methodist doctrine.

Z(bolding mine. This is what I am taught and believe in my SBC also. Once saved, always saved refers to what I stated above. If you screw up and then die, God knows your heart and if you are right with him, you will not have to worry about remaining perfect all the time, every day, just in case you fall dead of a heart attack. If you turn from God by choice, you are not saved anymore. Why not? Because God knows your heart and true thoughts/beliefs and where you have your faith.