The Current Disneyland Annual Pass Program Has Been Cancelled

[Kender]

I get people being disappointed. Just don't really understand the anger. (With the exception of people who get shorted on refunds.)

As one of those who is crushed (not just disappointed) and angry (along with a myriad of other emotions):

Disney lied to us for 10 months (regardless that they didn't mean to lie, the fact is this is how it feels). We've been promised our passes would be extended. We let them hold on to money in exchange that we would have an entry media in hand that could be used eventually. We now don't know if our refunds will even be handled correctly on top of having the promise of entry stripped away. I would have been far more happy with a hard pause for several months after opening. My pass has been my small bit of hope shining through everything.

Anger is a stage of grief. We're all grieving and we're all at various stages of it. I'm not going to judge anyone their feelings over having their AP cancelled.

Only thing I'm semi grateful for is my refund should be relatively straightforward compared to lower tier passes since I have no block out days. I've done the math, I know what I should get, if I get less then I will be calling.

Since we mentioned WDW, this would be a great year to give it a try. WDW is amazing and most socals never go

I've been several times. I'll go back eventually to visit my friend's family that lives nearby. But not going any time soon. Florida is too YOLO for me right now and I do not like WDW even close to as much as DLR. Plus way more expensive for me lol.

 

[montreid]

Absolutely anger is part of the grieving process and you have a point of Disney keeping us on a string. Then again, Disney really didn't know the fate of DLR until November as the Gov kept us all on a string. And with the surge and slow rollout; the likelihood of a spring reopening is a lot lower.

Hopefully low enough to get reopened by May for some desperately needed grad nights would go a long way to soften the blow for APs.

It really is a math issue for DLR. doesn't make it any easier on the disappointment of loss of the AP.

We're getting our fix with an April trip to WDW.

 

[Kender]

Like I said, we know they didn't mean to lie. But it feels like we've been lied to. Knowing one thing logically doesn't always alter the feelings about it.

I would also add (and I've mentioned this previously) that they didn't even extend the AP discount to shopDisney like they did WDW APs for months. I can't say for sure, but maybe it might have felt slightly less insulting if we'd be thrown that bone for even a few days . As upset as I am, I would have spent quite a bit online if given that discount.

 

[DLgal]

It's not out of thought that Orange county get to yellow in the summer before we hit Group 2 and even school kids.

25% capacity still is ripe for a superspreader event. Imagine getting on small world fully loaded for 30minutes indoors.

Remember the measles outbreak at DLR a few years ago? Disney won't be wanting that PR and will have masking/distancing deep into 2021.

The small world ride is 12 minutes load to unload. Not 30.

 

[mafpi]

So this is my dilema. Me and my oldest daughter have annual passes. I bought a so cal three day pass for my two minor kids. The plan was to take them with us for the three days, which we did twice. So they both have one day remaining. I know they can still use their one day, but now they have no one to take them since they are minors and my annual pass got cancelled. I have little to no interest in buying a day pass. Are there other options for me. I’m sure I’m not the only one with this circumstance.

So I called them today. I had a so cal 3 day hopper pass with max pass Which I paid 299 for. They said they would prorate the value of a normal two day hopper ticket with max pass and refund me the difference. The gate price of that was 324. So since it was more than what I paid I would be getting nothing back. So my two kids have one day left at Disneyland and no way to get there. I’ll just wait for their game plan Then figure it out and call back then.

 

[Epicnemesis]

From yesterday's LA Times article:

Yes. This is obviously the case. The argument is does an AP holder spend more in a year.

Marginal utility will always favor the tourist, but the overall annual spend favors the pass holders. (with outliers of course)

The math question is: Does the revenue lost from tourists who don’t go to Disneyland because of the crowds outweigh the revenue from the pass holders?

I’m inclined to think it doesn’t. We are a family of three, probably go to Disneyland 30 times a year, and drop...enough to where all parties are happy. Now is our average daily spend as much as the tourist who spends 3 nights on property and just has to hit up Blue Bayou and Napa Rose and do all their souvenir spend in a weekend? No, of course not.

To Disney it’s not a marginal cost issue though, it’s an opportunity cost issue. They know the AP holder isn’t going to drop a grand every trip, they know they are probably going to get about 50-100 bucks on average on daily spend on top of their pass cost and they are happy with it, because it’s 50-100 that they otherwise wouldn’t have captured at very little cost to them. (Once again, we are talking about the opportunity cost of someone who is deliberately NOT going to Disneyland because of the crowd size)

It’s also worth noting; you know all those limited edition or seasonal ears, shirts, jerseys, etc. that are wildly popular? Those are bought mostly by locals who would gladly drop 70 bucks on a Halloween spirit jersey they know they will be able to wear at the parks for a few years.

So, for the sake of this conversation can we table the “who is more valuable to Disney” measuring contest? They know what they are doing and they are milking us each differently.

Tourists drive up the average daily spend and the locals/AP holders keep the steady cash flow coming. Both are necessary parts of the equation.

 

[Malcon10t]

Heck, we would be happy right now if VGC opened with just shopping and dining. Unfortunately my crystal ball is broken and the Magic 8-ball keeps saying, “Ask again later”

Sadly, I have it on good information that DIsney truly thought VGC was going to open Dec 6th, to the extent the Grand was decorated for Christmas (excluding large Christmas tree, but several regular sized trees), and "special items" for those coming in. And then it got closed down.

THIS IS NOT GOOD. credit to Dusty Sage from micechat.com He just put out a podcast and pretty much said no more annual pass, just a membership where you can buy discounted day tickets.

Personally, I am going to wait to hear what is coming from Disneyland. Dusty has been very wrong in the past over a number of stories.

The small world ride is 12 minutes load to unload. Not 30.

My daughter swears it is a couple hours long.....


Everyone has a right to be angry, sad and everything you are feeling. It isn't DIsney's fault, it isn't our fault, but it still hurts. (Been an AP holder since APs came out.) I know many at Disney are also feeling the same way. They keep thinking they are going to open, and then it gets revoked. It was going to open July 17, and then it couldn't. It was shooting to open by Oct 1, and it couldn't, it was trying to open by Christmas, and it couldn't. And it tried to open VGC, and again, it couldn't. I will continue to support them as best I can thru visiting DTD as often as I can. I hope that the ICU predictions can bring it up so at least dining outside can come back. People are hoping maybe 2 weeks. And when it is time to reopen, I will support them.

 

[upritbass]

Sadly, I have it on good information that DIsney truly thought VGC was going to open Dec 6th,

That is true. We had reservations starting the 7th, but Newsome shut everything down on the 3rd. Our next attempt is mid-April then late May.

 

[DLgal]

THIS IS NOT GOOD. credit to Dusty Sage from micechat.com He just put out a podcast and pretty much said no more annual pass, just a membership where you can buy discounted day tickets. He is very reliable with his information and knows things before announcement so I believe him. THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE. As a CA resident and passholder, it was a huge part of my life and why I live here. I can’t afford a ticket each week. I doubt most other passholders can either. Only going a few times a year won’t work for those of us that grew up with it. I think Disney is making a HUGE mistake and will see very few passholders buy daytickets, and notenough vacationers come in to Be as profitable as they were with passholders. They will quickly change course once they see how much it’ll hurt their bottom line. Disneyworld is actually cheaper for a tourist then Disneyland because of all the accommodation options and amount of things you can do.

Absolutely zero percent chance of this happening.

Ken Potrock hinted at multiple pass types and said the program would be created by using feedback from current APs about what kind of access they want and what perks are important to them.

 

[Malcon10t]

That is true. We had reservations starting the 7th, but Newsome shut everything down on the 3rd. Our next attempt is mid-April then late May.

I just thought it was sad they went to all that work decorating, but at least the Cast Members that got to walk thru there got to feel the Disney Christmas Magic.

Absolutely zero percent chance of this happening.

Ken Potrock hinted at multiple pass types and said the program would be created by using feedback from current APs about what kind of access they want and what perks are important to them.

Totally agree. I have faith in D'Amaro and Potrock. I do not see it as something where you can buy a day ticket. It may be a while (as in post pandemic) but we will get there and expect it to look more like the Flex passes.

 

[DLgal]

I just thought it was sad they went to all that work decorating, but at least the Cast Members that got to walk thru there got to feel the Disney Christmas Magic.

Totally agree. I have faith in D'Amaro and Potrock. I do not see it as something where you can buy a day ticket. It may be a while (as in post pandemic) but we will get there and expect it to look more like the Flex passes.

What I can forsee is, once the parks open back up again, allowing FORMER APs the first opportunity to book a park visit (ahead of the general population) and MAYBE extending a discount on the purchase of day tickets for that purpose. Maybe.

 

[longtimedisneylurker]

Well, honestly, that would be in the range of what I would expect if they only refund the upgrade cost.

The math Disney is using is to count the number of days the pass could have been used versus how many it included at purchase time. Since they bought in November, the blocked out Christmas days wouldn't have counted. Assuming they paid ~$300 for a 3-day MaxPass ticket, that would be ~$300 for the upgrade, and slightly more than 2/3rds of the pass remaining would be about $220. (My numbers are really mushy here without knowing what they actually paid for the upgrade, since it varies a lot.)

I'm surprised that they're doing it that way - there are a handful of scenarios where people would get pretty ripped off.

I had six months left on my Flex, and I upgraded from a 3-day parkhopper, so I'm curious to see what I'll end up getting. (I know I'm in an easier position myself - I was able to use mine enough times in those six months that I felt like I'd already gotten my money's worth for what I paid for the upgrade, so anything I get back is gravy.)

The in-laws paid $355 for their 3-day hoppers. They paid $30 for the Maxpass with the hoppers. The cost of a flex pass at their time of upgrade was $599. They did not opt to have Maxpass on their flex pass. So the price difference they would have paid was either $244 or $214. I believe my mother-in-law said at the time it was the lesser amount because she commented that it was like having gotten Maxpass for free for 3 days.

There are 16 block out days for Christmas so a flex pass could theoretically have been used any of 349 days of the year. That makes the per day price about $1.71 or $1.72. They had 239 of those days remaining. That would come out to around $410. So if they had started with a flex pass and not a hopper pass, that would be the amount of the refund. I didn't really expect Disney would do that though since the original form of entry had been a hopper pass. So there can't really be a cause for complaint there.

But the actual amount of refund my mother-in-law says she got was $220.77. This is why I laugh over it. Where did Disney come up with that number? Clearly it wasn't a straight refund of the upgrade cost...

Anyway, this is the in-laws' money, not mine, so I have no stake in it. lol. The interest to me simply was in trying to reproduce whatever math and reasoning Disney used to come up with their number.

I had absolutely no problem predicting what I was going to get back on my younger son's signature AP with Maxpass bought straight out from Disney, no upgrades or complications.

 

[Kender]

The in-laws paid $355 for their 3-day hoppers. They paid $30 for the Maxpass with the hoppers. The cost of a flex pass at their time of upgrade was $599. They did not opt to have Maxpass on their flex pass. So the price difference they would have paid was either $244 or $214. I believe my mother-in-law said at the time it was the lesser amount because she commented that it was like having gotten Maxpass for free for 3 days.

There are 16 block out days for Christmas so a flex pass could theoretically have been used any of 349 days of the year. That makes the per day price about $1.71 or $1.72. They had 239 of those days remaining. That would come out to around $410. So if they had started with a flex pass and not a hopper pass, that would be the amount of the refund. I didn't really expect Disney would do that though since the original form of entry had been a hopper pass. So there can't really be a cause for complaint there.

But the actual amount of refund my mother-in-law says she got was $220.77. This is why I laugh over it. Where did Disney come up with that number? Clearly it wasn't a straight refund of the upgrade cost...

I don't think that number sounds accurate at all. They might be doing some weird math with the Flex passes because of the reservation required days ?

If it were me, I would ask for an explanation why I got less than half my money back with more than half the time left on it. It really sounds low to me.

 

[longtimedisneylurker]

I don't think that number sounds accurate at all. They might be doing some weird math with the Flex passes because of the reservation required days ?

If it were me, I would ask for an explanation why I got less than half my money back with more than half the time left on it. It really sounds low to me.

Well, like I said it wasn't my pass or money so I can't do anything about it personally. I thought maybe the refund might be reduced because of upgrading from tickets. I also have been wondering if the numbers she gave me were accurate. She texted me that's what she got back per ticket. But it has occurred to me that if she received only one refund of $441.54 that would be closer to that higher per day value remaining. Maybe she only got one credit back and assumed it was for both passes and the other never came through or she didn't notice it or update me? I did question her at the time to confirm if that was for one or two flex pass refunds. Like I said, it's been a head-scratcher. I've been bored a lot so it was interesting to mess with the math. I think the numbers might be suspect from every direction in this case. I can revisit the topic whenever my older son gets his refund. He bought a 4 day park hopper ticket with Maxpass and upgraded to a Flex Pass with no Maxpass and he used my credit card so I will get the refund and know all the data points.

 

[brightlined]

But it has occurred to me that if she received only one refund of $441.54 that would be closer to that higher per day value remaining. Maybe she only got one credit back and assumed it was for both passes and the other never came through or she didn't notice it or update me?

That would probably make the most sense of the possibilities we've talked about.

I did quick math on Kender's thought about the reservation days - there are roughly 140 Good to Go days on the pass, and just shy of half of those between November and the closure in March (counting all of November), so $220 would still be a weird number.

I'm actually kinda curious as to what order they're going in as far as sending out refunds, or if it's just totally at random. I got my pass a few months before that, and haven't heard a peep.

 

[Kender]

Well, like I said it wasn't my pass or money so I can't do anything about it personally. I thought maybe the refund might be reduced because of upgrading from tickets. I also have been wondering if the numbers she gave me were accurate. She texted me that's what she got back per ticket. But it has occurred to me that if she received only one refund of $441.54 that would be closer to that higher per day value remaining. Maybe she only got one credit back and assumed it was for both passes and the other never came through or she didn't notice it or update me? I did question her at the time to confirm if that was for one or two flex pass refunds. Like I said, it's been a head-scratcher. I've been bored a lot so it was interesting to mess with the math. I think the numbers might be suspect from every direction in this case. I can revisit the topic whenever my older son gets his refund. He bought a 4 day park hopper ticket with Maxpass and upgraded to a Flex Pass with no Maxpass and he used my credit card so I will get the refund and know all the data points.

From the language we've seen for the current refunds incoming and what we saw at WDW, absolutely upgrading from a ticket is still counted as an amount to be refunded.

$441 frankly makes way more sense to me and I think that was definitely only one refund. If you ever hear more regarding their situation, I'd be very curious to learn additional details. Sounds like they may have stopped looking once they got the first refund, though.

It would be on par with the refund issues I was seeing reported over on the WDW side of things lol

 

[theluckyrabbit]

Absolutely anger is part of the grieving process and you have a point of Disney keeping us on a string. Then again, Disney really didn't know the fate of DLR until November as the Gov kept us all on a string. And with the surge and slow rollout; the likelihood of a spring reopening is a lot lower.

Hopefully low enough to get reopened by May for some desperately needed grad nights would go a long way to soften the blow for APs...

The grief and the anger are absolutely real. And, sadly, Grad Nites 2021 have already been cancelled: Disneyland Resort Grad Nite | Disney Youth Programs

...
Everyone has a right to be angry, sad and everything you are feeling. It isn't DIsney's fault, it isn't our fault, but it still hurts. (Been an AP holder since APs came out.) I know many at Disney are also feeling the same way. They keep thinking they are going to open, and then it gets revoked. It was going to open July 17, and then it couldn't. It was shooting to open by Oct 1, and it couldn't, it was trying to open by Christmas, and it couldn't. And it tried to open VGC, and again, it couldn't. I will continue to support them as best I can thru visiting DTD as often as I can. I hope that the ICU predictions can bring it up so at least dining outside can come back. People are hoping maybe 2 weeks. And when it is time to reopen, I will support them.

Amen.

 

[Kender]

The grief and the anger are absolutely real. And, sadly, Grad Nites 2021 have already been cancelled: Disneyland Resort Grad Nite | Disney Youth Programs

A friend's eldest daughter is affected by this. I was hoping to be able to treat her to a special auntie trip with me and another of her aunties once things are settled a little more. But we'll see what happens with the future of entry media to DLR and if I can still do that for her before her younger siblings get their Grad Nites in a few years if it returns for them.

 

[montreid]

The grief and the anger are absolutely real. And, sadly, Grad Nites 2021 have already been cancelled: Disneyland Resort Grad Nite | Disney Youth Programs

Missed that announcement. Nuts. Now have to break that to her too. Thanks for the link.

The sooner Disney puts out the eventual transition membership plan and new AP the sooner the wounds will begin to heal.

 

[Malcon10t]

The sooner Disney puts out the eventual transition membership plan and new AP the sooner the wounds will begin to heal.

That likely won't be until the park has been opened to a higher capacity than 25%. And that isn't even on the "California Tier" program.