The Conservative - Liberal Debate Thread

[StrollPatrolMom]

Things are only important and should only be of interest to me If I am directly effected? It's effecting others..It's not all about me me me

yes, the terrorists. Poor mass murderers.

 

[Miss Jasmine]

So you're concerned about the possibility? Guess what? It's there everyday, Patriot Act or not, you're still not going to know about it.

The FBI doesn't have a "file" on you because you work at an airport. You're employer likely does. You were checked against FBI records, you didn't have one created. Because you weren't a law enforcement target on any level, you got the clearance/job.

Oh please. Yeah they just glance at the fingerprints and background info and then just toss it away.

I can guarantee my DH has a file. In fact he has to give notice to the FBI every time we leave the country and list out all the places we are going. But again that is his choice to serve on the task force that he does. I don't have problems with voluntarily giving up info. It's when that info is taken that I have an issue.

I'm so glad you are so willing to give up your 4th amendment rights so easily. So yes I am concerned about the possibility as that possibility shouldn't even exist.

 

[StrollPatrolMom]

Not to end the above discussion, but does anyone think the allegedly leaked memo from an Obama advisor to the Canandian embassy will have any legs at this stage in the game??

I don't know if it will or not...the Obamaites seem to be pretty enamored of the guy.

I got a good chuckle out of it though. There's only so long Obama can get away with not actually addressing policy issues. Change and Hope are not public policy plans to solve any of the major issues facing America.

 

[eclectics]

I got a good chuckle out of it though. There's only so long Obama can get away with not actually addressing policy issues. Change and Hope are not public policy plans to solve any of the major issues facing America.

What makes you think he hasn't. All you have to do is go to his website and click on 'Issues'. Very simple... if you're actually interested, that is.

 

[TCPluto]

Oh please. Yeah they just glance at the fingerprints and background info and then just toss it away. I can guarantee my DH has a file. In fact he has to give notice to the FBI every time we leave the country and list out all the places we are going. But again that is his choice to serve on the task force that he does. I don't have problems with voluntarily giving up info. It's when that info is taken that I have an issue.

I'm so glad you are so willing to give up your 4th amendment rights so easily. So yes I am concerned about the possibility as that possibility shouldn't even exist.

That's exactly what happens. It's of no value to anyone. All the FBI got was the fingerprints anyway, to compare to criminal histories. Your employer has the background information.

And no, your husband doesn't have a "file" either, outside of a personal file as any employer keeps on employees.

Because he's a local police officer serving on a federal task force, it seems reasonable they want to know his whereabouts. And your husband gives it willingly. If he didn't want to give it he could go back to his local department, no problem.

Like I said, Patriot Act or not, you're never going to know if a federal agency is looking at your internet activity (or whatever), until your arrested (and maybe not then).

 

[Chloe'sMom]

Since TCPluto seems to have so much information as to how the FBI works perhaps he would be willing to show evidence of all these inter workings. After all he demands evidence from everyone else.

~Amanda

 

[Chloe'sMom]

Your evidence that soemone has listened to your phone calls?

Guess what? It hasn't happened.

Please provide evidence that it hasn't.

 

[Chloe'sMom]

Not to end the above discussion, but does anyone think the allegedly leaked memo from an Obama advisor to the Canandian embassy will have any legs at this stage in the game??

I haven't seen anything about this - where can I find the info?
Thanks!
~Amanda

 

[Miss Jasmine]

Since TCPluto seems to have so much information as to how the FBI works perhaps he would be willing to show evidence of all these inter workings. After all he demands evidence from everyone else.

~Amanda

I am in awe of TCPluto's knowledge. I do have to wonder how the FBI does build up its database. I mean if nothing is kept on record.

And again, I have no issue with giving information willingly. I used my family's examples to show how I feel. There is good giving of information (again no problem) and then there is bad TAKING of information (big problem).

 

[Chloe'sMom]

I am in awe of TCPluto's knowledge.

And again, I have no issue with giving information willingly. I used my family's examples to show how I feel. There is good giving of information (again no problem) and then there is bad TAKING of information (big problem).

Well obviously Mis Jas you are fool and don't know exactly what to whom you are providing information too. After all TCPluto says so and we should all just bow down and take his word for it without any evidence at all. He has spoken.

~Amanda

 

[TCPluto]

Since TCPluto seems to have so much information as to how the FBI works perhaps he would be willing to show evidence of all these inter workings. After all he demands evidence from everyone else.~Amanda

Really?

Just apply common sense, it's quite simple. How are a couple thousand federal agents supposed to keep track of your book club and internet surfing, along with the other tens of millions folks in the country?

And if they stumbled on your 200th overseas call from Iraq and listened to your critique of Oprah's latest favorite author, do you think they write it up in a report and try and make a terrorist plot out of it?

 

[Miss Jasmine]

Hmm TCPluto may want to read about IAFIS: http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cjisd/iafis.htm

 

[Charade]

I haven't seen anything about this - where can I find the info?
Thanks!
~Amanda

http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2008/03/03/ap/headlines/d8v680qg0.txt

 

[Fitswimmer]

As far as the Patriot Act is concerned, I don't give a rat's patootie if there have been any cases where innocent people have been affected or not. Who knows? Maybe the Bush Administration really hasn't started tapping the phones or reading the emails of political enemies. Maybe they haven't imprisoned any innocent people without telling them the charges against them or maybe they haven't rendered any innocent people to other countries. But should ANY Administration have the ability to do that?? Should any Administration have that kind of unchecked and unbalanced power? I don't like the Bush Administration having this kind of power, but I don't want the Clinton or Obama administration to have it either.

I truly believe that this issue is non-partisan. I believe that it is a Constitutional issue and applies to Democratic and Republican administrations equally.

 

[Chloe'sMom]

http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2008/03/03/ap/headlines/d8v680qg0.txt

Thanks. NAFTA isn't a make it or break it point for me - however I would like to see it renegotiated. Obama should think before speaking.

~Amanda

 

[SwedishMeatball]

I haven't seen anything about this - where can I find the info?
Thanks!
~Amanda

This is the latest and I see that since I last was updated, Obama has himself publicly denied it and it seems as though Canadian officials are backing him up.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080303/ap_on_el_pr/democrats_nafta

 

[TCPluto]

I am in awe of TCPluto's knowledge. I do have to wonder how the FBI does build up its database. I mean if nothing is kept on record.

And again, I have no issue with giving information willingly. I used my family's examples to show how I feel. There is good giving of information (again no problem) and then there is bad TAKING of information (big problem).

You're kidding, right?

Every teacher in our school district has to be fingerprinted and a FBI check completed, I'm sure it's the same across the country. you think each teacher in the country has a "file"? No, they don't.

States are required to submit local criminal histories to the FBI, a central repository for criminal records. So when you move from Ohio to Florida, after living in Colorado, you need only check the FBI file for felony convictions. That's what you had done in the course of your employment background, which is done by your employer.

 

[Chloe'sMom]

Really?

Just apply common sense, it's quite simple. How are a couple thousand federal agents supposed to keep track of your book club and internet surfing, along with the other tens of millions folks in the country?

And if they stumbled on your 200th overseas call from Iraq and listened to your critique of Oprah's latest favorite author, do you think they write it up in a report and try and make a terrorist plot out of it?

The last part no - I don't think they write up a report.

But I know of many people who had to have their backrounds checked and they went to the FBI to do it. Now granted they could just be checking to see if the person has a file or not. They could be checking to see how many times that person's background has been checked in the past.

From what I understand it is pretty easy to have an FBI file - not that much comes to it, but it is possible. Not to mention with Miss Jas and her husband's career I think it is fair to say that it is extremely likely they do have records.

I can't prove if they do or don't - and neither can you so stop acting so righteious because your high horse isn't living up to it.

~Amanda

 

[Charade]

As far as the Patriot Act is concerned, I don't give a rat's patootie if there have been any cases where innocent people have been affected or not. Who knows? Maybe the Bush Administration really hasn't started tapping the phones or reading the emails of political enemies. Maybe they haven't imprisoned any innocent people without telling them the charges against them or maybe they haven't rendered any innocent people to other countries. But should ANY Administration have the ability to do that?? Should any Administration have that kind of unchecked and unbalanced power? I don't like the Bush Administration having this kind of power, but I don't want the Clinton or Obama administration to have it either.

I truly believe that this issue is non-partisan. I believe that it is a Constitutional issue and applies to Democratic and Republican administrations equally.

What price would you put on that? Protect the Consitutional boundries at ALL costs?

 

[TCPluto]

Please provide evidence that it hasn't.

Show me how to prove a negative.