The "catch" to DVC

And I do not see how this is really a catch when you know up front at time of purchase.

With that being said, with MF's and loan payments I pay about $500/year more than I would for our past accommodations. Factor in my DVC AP discount for the family and it is a wash.

Now, in a few more years when my loan payment is gone life will be good. Even with a 5% increase in MF's and AP's I will start saving nearly $2,000/year over our previous travel habits. That dollar figure will continue to grow over time.
 
I say we all stop paying dues, lay off all housekeeping, maintenence and front desk, anyone can go anytime, the rooms will never ever be cleaned and nothing ever fixed. Swimming pools will turn into swamps, stay as long as you like....This is the kind of place I want to stay at for my vacations!:thumbsup2

Yeah you discovered a major catch! :thumbsup2
 
Curious though, if DH and I die, and our kids don't want DVC what are their options? Can they just "let it go?" or will they have to sell it?

I think they would need to contact DVC at that time.

My father in law had an RV timeshare that he loved, but his wife *hated* camping of any kind so they only rarely used it. He bought an RV for this timeshare (ugh) and never used it. His adult kids loved it, but it had really high maintenance fees. He had bought a special contract where it could go down two generations, so if we could have kept it it could have been deeded to our son after DH was done with it. But the maintenance fees were just too high, they were due too soon, and no one in the family could afford it (FIL had no life insurance, being certain that MIL would die first so couldn't even use that).

We considered putting it on ebay as I saw many other owners of that timeshare do, and if only I'd known about all these other timeshare sales places...but ultimately we called them, and they allowed us to just sign it back to them. We got absolutely nothing out of it, but we also didn't have to pay something like 1K per year in dues for a fancy place to go tent camping (we don't have an RV, and FIL's RV had been refinanced in his bankruptcy and was a sickeningly high payment AND had been broken down for a year at that point).

So if your kids don't want it, they'll need to contact DVC, to see what they can do at that point.

If you had a guide that was worth anything, they clearly spelled out the dues to you when you signed up, so it isn't a "catch".

Agreed. Our guide was actually too helpful with the dues info. He urged DH to buy at Bay Lake, when AKV was really DH's style (I personally wanted OKW but financing resale wasn't possible for us), because Bay Lake's dues were lower and would be a lower total cost for us.
 
The only thing I "caught" is that dreaded disease "add-on-itis". 3 times so far and counting:thumbsup2

:rotfl:

I know I can't believe DBF and I both caught it less than 2 months after our
1st purchase! But didn't want to be saying "wish we would have bought sooner" - especially since it was VGC which supposedly is on it's way to being sold out. Anywho's back on topic...
 

I think once you make your first DVC trip you will truly appreciate how wonderful membership is, and how it can make your WDW trips so much better. It sounds a bit like you are having second thoughts about your purchase - just take a deep breath and have a great trip home in November! I doubt you will have regrets! :goodvibes
 
I certainly don't consider it "catch", a downside maybe, since no one WANTS to pay it. But it is a necessity and therefore I believe it was an upfront consideration, and not a catch.

That being said, I do agree with PP's about:
1. Not worrying about where you'll be in 50 years. You may have been forced to sell during that time from hardship or you may have won the lotto. Or, you might just be a normal schmoe. Unless you have a crystal ball hiding under your mickey ears, I wouldn't stress over it.

2. Consider what $5000/year in dues will really be like in 2010. According to an inflation calculator, a $8,000 salary in 1960 is like $58,921 today. So, using this same equation, bread that went for .39 a loaf back in 1960 now costs $2.87 a loaf. It's all relative. Which leads me to #3...

3. disneynutz wrtoe:

IMHO the biggest catch is that I don't see most members keeping their contracts for 50 years.

That's a long time to vacation at the same place. Who knows what Disney will be like in 5, 10, 15, 20, or more years down the road? At what price will Disney exercise ROFR? Who will own Disney and how will it change?

I see this slightly different ~ I feel THIS is their biggest "catch" - that you need to hang onto it for 50 years. In order to get the most out of your DVC, you need to actually keep it ALL 50 years. Doesn't necessarily matter what has changed, or at what price they exercise ROFR - just in terms of actual monetary outlay. The catch is that if you keep it 10 years, you pay 10 years of loan and dues. Obviously that will be considerably higher (per year) than if you keep it all 50 years and only pay loans for the first 10. You are going to get so much more for your money at the end of the contract. So, selling early means you are paying the initial higher costs and none of the cheaper long term costs per year, KWIM?
 
What nobody seems to harp on so much are the yearly fees/dues/taxes. This is the "catch." They multiply every year from now on. Why worry about the 20,000 thousand you just spent when you have to worry about the 50,000 you're about to pay over the next several years. I estimate my last 10 years of DVC I'll be paying roughly 5000 dollars a year!

Do you not know that all timeshares have maintenance fees? Not a "catch" at all. It sounds like DVC was an impulse buy for you. I recommend doing some research on the program so you know what you bought into. I researched DVC for two years prior to purchase and knew more about the program than my guide. I have been happy with my purchase because I knew what I was getting for my money.
 
I've owned since September 1999 and have always paid dues monthly. My monthly dues payments have gone from about $83 at the start to $111 currently on 250 BWV points. It's usually $2 or $3 more a month each year but it's not outlandish, monthly costs for everything else has gone up. $111 a month, I don't even miss it. I love not having that big bill when I come back from vacation (usually booked room only before so it was payable at check-in).
 
...In order to get the most out of your DVC, you need to actually keep it ALL 50 years. Doesn't necessarily matter what has changed, or at what price they exercise ROFR - just in terms of actual monetary outlay. The catch is that if you keep it 10 years, you pay 10 years of loan and dues. Obviously that will be considerably higher (per year) than if you keep it all 50 years and only pay loans for the first 10. You are going to get so much more for your money at the end of the contract. So, selling early means you are paying the initial higher costs and none of the cheaper long term costs per year, KWIM?
I disagree. I actually prepared a spreadsheet that analyzed the cost per point over the course of my whole membership. The spreadsheet calculated the "$ per point to date."

In the beginning of my membership, the cost per point is indeed the highest, because the whole purchase price was spread over just one year. As you state, the costs get cheaper over time, because the purchase price is spread over more years. However, after just 20 years, the "cost per point to date" start to go up again, because the steady expected increase in maintenance fees start to become the controlling factor. Over the course of your whole membership, you will pay far more in maintenance fees than the initial purchase price, of course. And those maintenance fees for the last few years of membership are very high.

It is therefore not necessary to keep your membership for the "whole 50 years" to get benefit out of it. You might do even better to keep it for 20 years or so and to then sell it.
 
I don't see it as a "catch". Everyone here on the DIS that advises people on DVC makes it a point to say that your annual fees will far, far outweigh the original purchase price. And I was told that (in less ominous terms, I'm sure) by our guide when we toured as well. So it's not like anyone's trying to hide it.

It's not a magical product - it's a timeshare, so I don't see the annual fees as anything I would consider sneaky or a "catch".

The only catch I think there is (and I don't really think it's a catch as much as something people don't always think of - including me) is how much it still costs you to go to WDW on a regular basis, even when your room is paid for by points. Tickets, transportation, eating, etc. That part is way more expensive than your annual dues.


Our contact (the person who sold the membership to us) tried as best as she could to not go into the yearly fees topic. Once I insisted on talking about it she elaborated a bit more but she would not give me any estimations what-so-ever. I understand that this is a business but most businesses give estimates before going through with anything. Also, after she elaborated a little bit I did a quick calculation in my head and it came out to $10,000 a year towards the end of the 50 years. She quickly took note and told us she made a mistake and it would be half of what she originally told us. Shady!

As far as timeshares go, everyone (older folks) advised me not to do it. I thought about DVC for a good 2 years before I went through with it.

You are right about the ticket prices and everything else that comes along with going to Disney... that is somewhat of a catch... but I would assume most people would think about that since they'll be going to Disney every year for 50 years. Besides, you're not forced to fly or go to the parks... and you can go shopping and cook your own food.

All I was trying to say is, why not give the overall picture of what the DVC really costs. Overall my 4-7 days a year for the next 50 years will cost me about $150,000 (plus tickets, food and travel expenses.) It might dissuade some people but it's the truth and gives them a better picture.
 
Our contact (the person who sold the membership to us) tried as best as she could to not go into the yearly fees topic. Once I insisted on talking about it she elaborated a bit more but she would not give me any estimations what-so-ever. I understand that this is a business but most businesses give estimates before going through with anything.

To give you any estimates would open Disney up to a tremendous potential liability. We now have nearly 20 years worth of dues history on Old Key West and 10+ years on other properties. That history has shown increases of 2-4% per year. It's reasonable to expect that to continue. However, we must also realize that extraordinary circumstances do occur which may generate added expense over the years.

Legally dues must be tied to the operating costs of the resort. Other people have raised comparisons to owning your home and that's a good one. Before you buy a home you can ask the prior owner for information on utility costs, property taxes, how long the roof is expected to last, etc. But the reality is you still need to pay for the actual utilities, taxes and maintenance for years and years to come--no matter what those costs may prove to be.

Also, after she elaborated a little bit I did a quick calculation in my head and it came out to $10,000 a year towards the end of the 50 years. She quickly took note and told us she made a mistake and it would be half of what she originally told us. Shady!

I must be missing what's so "shady" about correcting your math. :confused3

All I was trying to say is, why not give the overall picture of what the DVC really costs.

Because they don't KNOW what it will cost and if DVC were to provide any sort of estimates, they could be held accountable for justifying those estimates 40-50 years down the road.

Last time you bought a car, did the dealer tell you what gas, insurance and maintenance would cost you over the life of the vehicle?

Did the electronics store tell you what it would cost in electricity and cable TV service for the new 55" plasma set?

Any 15 year old with knowledge of Excel can figure out what this will cost over the next 50 years. I don't see what's so deceptive about letting people do their own research.

Overall my 4-7 days a year for the next 50 years will cost me about $150,000 (plus tickets, food and travel expenses.) It might dissuade some people but it's the truth and gives them a better picture.

It is also a very distorted picture because you aren't making any allowance for the time value of money.

The reason that our annual dues go up 2-3% per year is because all of the associated costs go up. Salaries cost more, utilities cost more, taxes cost more, and so on. And THOSE costs increase because the providers of the services must also pay more to their workforce and for raw materials.

If we assume that average wages will continue to climb by 2% per year (historically it has been higher than that), a person making $60,000 today will earn $158,000 per year in 2060. That may seem like an unrealistic, unobtainable figure....until you realize that it's expressed in 2060 dollars. Simply put, $158K won't buy you as much in 2060 as it does today. Gas may well be $10 per gallon. Mid-size cars will set you back $50,000. And DVC dues could be $4000-5000 per year.

Whatever calculation you used for your 2060 annual dues...apply that to a cup of coffee, a Big Mac or a movie ticket. If Starbucks raises prices by just 3% per year, that $3 hot beverage will set you back about $13 come 2060.

In short, everything will cost MUCH more in 50 years than it does today. But you will also be earning much more.
 
I guess you can always sell, but how does that work? This is a question that never got answered before I bought into it. If I can't afford to pay anymore in the future, can I just drop it or what?

If the time comes and you need to sell please feel free to contact The Timeshare Store, Inc.®. As a seller you pay a commission, an Estoppel fee to Diseny and a ROFR fee. Our email is sales@dvcstore.com.

Jason
 
i would like to invite everyone posting in this thread to give me $10,000 today...for which i promise to give them $10,000 in 40 years. many of you seem to simply think that a dollar is a dollar, right? a dollar in the year 2050 is worth the same as a dollar today? that's the "truth?"

if you are convinced that i would have to promise you more than $10,000 in the year 2050 to get your $10,000 today, then you've taken the first step in understanding the "time value of money."

someone might have 200 pts and owe $1000 in annual dues on those pts this year. in 2050, the same pts might cost $3250 in annual dues. but if costs in 2050 for milk and bread and utilities have all gone up by similar factors, then the "present value" of $3250 in the year 2050 would be more like $1000...so it would be very wrong IMO to simply stack the $3250 in 2050 costs on top of your total costs stated in 2010 terms.
 
3 things nobody can escape: Death, Taxes, and DVC dues!! :teacher:
 
i would like to invite everyone posting in this thread to give me $10,000 today...for which i promise to give them $10,000 in 40 years. many of you seem to simply think that a dollar is a dollar, right? a dollar in the year 2050 is worth the same as a dollar today? that's the "truth?"

I don't know where the "many of you seem to think that a dollar is a dollar, right?" comes from. The only person who doesn't seem to get the concept is the OP.

Tjkraz gave the best answer so far. It's unrealistic to expect any business to give you a guestimate on the price of anything 50 years from now. As others have said, when you bought your home did you ask what your property taxes would be in 50 years?

This topic kind of reminds me of that lady who sued McDonalds for not warning her the coffee was hot.
 
Yeah, me too.

I'll be 89 in 2060 (if I even make it that far)

I hope I got to take my DD3 many times to Disney between now and then and I hope I can be lucky enough to take grandkids with and introduce them to the wonderful world of Disney.
 
Hello Everyone,
This is my first post here. I'm glad this board exists!

To the original poster: I made a spreadsheet for my needs that are pretty exacting.

I have 320 points @ the Grand Californian, with good credit and minus a recent sale I'm shelling out $352.52/ mo. for 10 years. The initial monthly dues are $106/mo ( just about what my utility bill is).

Assuming a 4% increase year after year, the monthly dues on my 50th(!) year will be $718/mo. ($8613/yr).

For comparison, a decent $30,000 car on 5 yr loan is roughly $550/mo. today.
In 50 yrs the same increase rate will demand a $3758/mo. payment. (!!!holy guacamole!!!)

Today a decent room goes for about $200/night in Disneyland area... and the rooms are nowhere near as good as the Grand Californian/DVC rooms. Assuming this $200 avg., it'll be around $1367/night in 2060.

The total of all DVC costs over the 50 years will be roughly $235,000.
Staying at lesser hotels will be roughly $245,000. Thus buying into DVC still nets you ~ $10,000 savings right off the bat.

Then you can include further savings like TAX DEDUCTIONS, annual pass and other in-park discounts and most importantly, for me, peace-of-mind knowing my children and future grandchildren will have a safe, grand time in a myriad of locations.

In my estimation, the DVC cannot be beat!
 
Paying dues did not bother me until recently. When I was getting very clean rooms that were well maintained, I felt my dues were well spent.

However in the last year or so, I have gotten rooms that were not clean and not well maintained and I am beginning to wonder what the dues are going for?

I know we won't keep ours for the end of the contract. We have had ours long enough to feel we got our money's worth.

Would I buy now, absolutely not.
 



















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