The Case Against College Education

[chisnpeke]

That is a generalization with which I strongly disagree. I would rank many flagship state universities far above the numerous 3rd and 4th tier private colleges any day.

As far as research goes, most state schools are better. For student to teacher ratio and interaction, private schools are better. However, you can get the same student to teacher interaction if you take the iniative to have one on one time with a teacher at a state school.

 

[Shyvioletisme]

I agree...my husband who has no college degree has been able to ace interviews and get nice really well paying jobs, meanwhile I(who have a BA) have trouble even getting interviews and finding a job. It irks me a lot, that we're paying off my student loans for the next 18 years and I always have a really really hard time getting a job(or just can't get on at all), while DH has nothing and has no problems

Just goes to show, that all that money put in and the piece of paper don't always amount to anything in the real world.

 

[allison443]

As far as research goes, most state schools are better. For student to teacher ratio and interaction, private schools are better. However, you can get the same student to teacher interaction if you take the iniative to have one on one time with a teacher at a state school.

Just curious, what are you basing these generalizations on?

 

[NY Disney fan]

The point is, if you make it though the rigorous screening process and receive an acceptance letter, they will work with you on making it happen financially, and they have the means to do so.

Unless they are going to cut my tuition, there is no way an IVY is going to work with you or for you. I know Harvard tuition is free for those who have a low income but for the rest of the students, unless you are rich, you will be in hock until you die. The best thing you can do is pick a lucrative career to pay off that loan. I would NEVER send my child to an IVY (if they were accepted). If she was good enough to get into an IVY, I'd send her to a good state school on a FREE ride.

 

[brerrabbit]

I think the idea that we push in education today that every child should go to college is just symtimatic of an overall educational system that is broken. What we really need is a system that challenges and offers students choices at an earlier age. Believe it or not I would advocate more vocational training at the high school level. Lets face it many here have admitted that not every kid is college material and that leaves them with some really tough choices. The fact they are or are not suited for college is something that is determined fairly early in high school. Think AP/ Non AP classes. If a larger number of vocational class options were offered at the HS level then kids could have better information to choose the direction they want to go.

As far as the cost of college goes I think that it has gotten ridiculous for many. Here in Texas why a family would choose TCU, Baylor, or SMU over A&M, U of H, Texas, or Texas Tech is beyond me. I assure you the privates are no better degrees than the publics at almost half the price. Ivy league is a totally different ball game. The price you pay is only for very few.

The final consideration is when looking at the earnings potential of a college graduate vs a person that goes right to work out of HS polls always ignore the fact that the HS grad starts earning right away and has four years of earnings head start of those who atternd college. Granted in the long run the college grad may make more, but from a pure financial stand point when considering the earnings up front, the avoided cost of college tuition, and the time value of money over a lifetime not attending college may turn out to be financially a better deal. (I learned all the financial stuff in college but then again my degree cost me about $400 a semester including books at U of H in the late seventies)

 

[chisnpeke]

Just curious, what are you basing these generalizations on?

Generalizations that private schools are better? They are better in some areas, such as student:teacher interaction and ratio. That isn't a generalization, it's a fact. Most private schools don't have lectures of 400 kids. My school does because there are 35,000 students. Private schools have a very small student body which leads to a better quality education in some aspects. You get more personalized experiences at a private school because class size is smaller. You can get personalized experiences similar to the ones provided at private schools if you as the student put out the initiative.

Your college education is what you make of it. I guarantee you can get just as personalized an education at a state school as you can at a private school. You just have to set out to do it.

 

[ead79]

Philosophically I agree with the article. I don't think that college is for everyone. While I do certainly see the value in higher education, I think that in all probability too many students are being pushed into college when they aren't ready academically.

That being said, from a practical perspective I still think a college degree is essential. Whether it's fair or not, degrees are a requirement for most professional jobs out there. In my experience, the only folks DH and I have seen in the professional workforce that don't have degrees are older workers who entered the job force before a degree was as necessary as it is today. I would hate to be shut out from a job right from the start simply because I didn't have a degree. My degree has certainly been important in my life. And it was important enough to DH that he never dropped out of college even when working full time despite the fact that it took him 10 years to finish. Fair or not, degrees open doors.

 

[chisnpeke]

Unless they are going to cut my tuition, there is no way an IVY is going to work with you or for you. I know Harvard tuition is free for those who have a low income but for the rest of the students, unless you are rich, you will be in hock until you die. The best thing you can do is pick a lucrative career to pay off that loan. I would NEVER send my child to an IVY (if they were accepted). If she was good enough to get into an IVY, I'd send her to a good state school on a FREE ride.

 

[Golf4food]

Beyond the debt I have no doubt that my college education was watered down slightly due to the pressence of students who had no business really being in college, who did not want to be in college, but were only there because they "had to" or it was the "right thing to do". Many of those people would have been better off at a good trade school or an apprenticeship of some sort and the rest of us who truly wanted to have advanced studies would have been better off for not having the "dead weight" to slow things down. Win-win.

 

[ladycollector]

While I agree that not everyone should go to college, I think you'll find that people with degrees make MUCH more money than those without. A degree opens up opportunities, it doesn't really matter if that's right or wrong - because that's the way it is.

In my case, I am soon to graduate with my Accounting degree and I would be terrified if they hired accountants without a degree. Not to mention I have to have so many hours of graduate work and a total of 150 college credit hours to receive my CPA license after I pass all four parts.

My college education is definitely not a waste of time or money..

 

[PeterPan09]

I think it really depends on how you define success. If you define success by the size of your bank account, then I would say that to be successful today you really need a college education, and probably post-college as well.

If you define success by having a job that makes you jump out of bed in the morning and say "oh boy! I get to go to work today!" then you may or may not need college, depending on what type of job gives you that feeling.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

Another interesting article from Forbes on the subject: link...

 

[gina2000]

Unless they are going to cut my tuition, there is no way an IVY is going to work with you or for you. I know Harvard tuition is free for those who have a low income but for the rest of the students, unless you are rich, you will be in hock until you die. The best thing you can do is pick a lucrative career to pay off that loan. I would NEVER send my child to an IVY (if they were accepted). If she was good enough to get into an IVY, I'd send her to a good state school on a FREE ride.

Ahem.....from Harvard

http://http://www.fao.fas.harvard.edu/icb/icb.do

Our new financial aid policy has dramatically reduced the amount families with incomes below $180,000 are expected to pay, and parents of families with incomes below $60,000 are not expected to contribute at all to college costs. We no longer consider home equity as a resource in our determination of a family contribution, and students are not expected to take out loans, which have been replaced by need-based Harvard scholarship. This new program has reduced the cost to middle income families by one-third to one-half, making the price of a Harvard education for students on financial aid comparable to the cost of in-state tuition and fees at the nation’s leading public universities.

...from Princeton

http://http://www.princeton.edu/admission/financialaid/

By the late 1990s it became clear that we needed to do more, and in 2001 the University implemented a variety of financial aid improvements to create the best possible need-based aid program. Central to this program is our groundbreaking "no loan" policy; Princeton was the first university to offer every aid recipient a financial aid package that replaces loans with grant aid (scholarships) that students do not pay back.




.....from Yale

http://http://www.yale.edu/admit/freshmen/financial_aid/yale_cuts_costs.html

The reduction in costs will be spread across a broad range of incomes. Families with incomes below $120,000 will see their contributions cut by more than 50%, while most families with incomes between $120,000 and $200,000 will see cost reductions of 33% or more.

Families earning less than $60,000 annually will not make any contribution toward the cost of a child’s education, and families earning $60,000 to $120,000 will typically contribute from 1% to 10% of total family income. The contribution of aided families earning above $120,000 will average 10% of income.


I'm not saying an Ivy is the be all and end all, but they certainly have the means to help middle and lower income families to send their students to these colleges. Most state universities do not. I'm not knocking a state education in any way but name recognition as well as connections go a long way.

 

[castleview]

OP here. I wouldn't trade my degree and I believe it was necessary for me. However, I think colleges are out of control as far as tuition rates and inflexibility of schedules.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

OP here. I wouldn't trade my degree and I believe it was necessary for me. However, I think colleges are out of control as far as tuition rates and inflexibility of schedules.

Yeah, that was the focus of the Forbes article. Government involvement, meant to make college more accessible, has actually driven up the costs.

 

[kpm76]

Unless they are going to cut my tuition, there is no way an IVY is going to work with you or for you. I know Harvard tuition is free for those who have a low income but for the rest of the students, unless you are rich, you will be in hock until you die. The best thing you can do is pick a lucrative career to pay off that loan. I would NEVER send my child to an IVY (if they were accepted). If she was good enough to get into an IVY, I'd send her to a good state school on a FREE ride.

Did you miss my post where I listed Brown's tuition and avg financial aid award??? Tuition is 38k and the avg financial aid award is $30k......8k (plus room & board if that's the route you choose) is far less than the private elementary school our DD will be attending. That's peanuts for an Ivy, or any school for that matter.

You are certainly entitled to send your children whenever you think is the best fit for them. You seem to take issue with Ivy's and that's fine too. We plan to let our children make the best choice for them based on their academic achievement, interests etc. The school I chose was not the place where I got the most money but it was by far the best fit for me. My parent's made huge sacrifices to send me there and for that I will be eternally grateful. It would have been much cheaper to send me to the state school, but was not the place for me for a variety of reasons.

 

[DisneyLover83]

Many of those people would have been better off at a good trade school or an apprenticeship of some sort and the rest of us who truly wanted to have advanced studies would have been better off for not having the "dead weight" to slow things down. Win-win.

I agree with this from my own experiences at my school the professor wants to have a perfect bell curve for grades or else HE looks bad. So if the class doesn't do well things get watered down, chapters get cut out, etc. It makes me mad because I do the work and work very hard. I want to take the CPA exam and need to know this skipped info.... they are doing people like myself no favors. College is not for everyone... IMHO and I am getting the short end because of it.

 

[allison443]

Unless they are going to cut my tuition, there is no way an IVY is going to work with you or for you. I know Harvard tuition is free for those who have a low income but for the rest of the students, unless you are rich, you will be in hock until you die. The best thing you can do is pick a lucrative career to pay off that loan. I would NEVER send my child to an IVY (if they were accepted). If she was good enough to get into an IVY, I'd send her to a good state school on a FREE ride.

Harvard has a no-loan policy, i.e. their financial aid packages do no include loans.

For families with income between 120K and 180K, their contribution is 10% of their income. I wish I was paying 10% of our family income for my dd's college!! She doesn't go to Harvard though~

 

[Forevryoung]

Like I said, the quality at private schools is in all probability better than at state schools. However, for the $50,000 price, I would rather travel and get experiences with people from different cultures and experiences than spend it on an education I can get for a much lower cost.

But it's not about experiences for many. My uncle has a undergrad degree from Princeton and a PhD from MIT, in mathematics.

It's his CONNECTIONS and NETWORKING from being at Princeton and MIT that have provided many more opportunities and assistance than any other schools could have.

 

[C.Ann]

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1967580,00.html

Thoughts? Mine: There are many professions that don't require a degree and many kids not suited for traditional college. Education for the sake of education is fine - actually, it's good - but to take on that much debt is ridiculous. I would hope this is a wakeup call for universities to get their acts together and stop bilking students for all they can get. Just my opinion.

For the most part, I agree..