The BIG complaint...and a possible (unsatisfying) solution

[SusanDK]

I'm guessing that most of those who preferred the old FP (paper FP's at kiosks) were always early morning / rope drop people. The brilliance of FP+ was that it was possible to arrive at the parks later in the day and still be able to take advantage of the FP+ system. That had to be a plus for Disney as well as guests, to spread out the capacity throughout the day.

It wasn't required to book FP+ long ahead of time as some people insist (30 or 60 days in advance). We are spontaneous visitors and I was often able to grab my three FP+ a day or two before a visit, or even same day, with the exception of the newest rides or headliners. With the old FP, because we prefer relaxed mornings and entering the parks later in the day, paper FPs were always gone when we arrived. With FP+ we could schedule three late afternoon / early evening rides and have a pleasant few hours in the park.

 

[wfjny]

As an out of state AP holder and DVC member, we go to WDW a lot. I do try and look at things from all sides.

I can rehash many of the issues people have brought up, as well as some positives.

But I think what concerns me the most are the perspectives of others. I have heard quite a few people that have chosen either not to go at all, or have cancelled their upcoming trips. Sure, some of these reasons do not have much to do with Disney. General inflation, fuel prices, airline prices, airline fights, and airline delays are all things Disney has no control over.

However, one thing Disney is over other places is that it is a Destination. As such, I know more than a few people that plan vacations not just for themselves, but as family or friend reunions. Personally, WDW is a 8 hour drive for us. Fairly easy for us to meet up with family or friends from New York, Texas, and elsewhere.

The complications of the reservation systems have hurt that. I have heard several families that have cancelled their trips due to the fact that some other members of their party got their tickets too late to make a reservation. I guess i just want to think that your vacation should not be so hard.

Do not get me wrong. We love Disney, we go often, and obviously we go because we enjoy it. It is not perfect. It never will be. And they are trying to cater to a huge group of people, and you will never make everyone happy. But ye, sometime, I wonder...

 

[Jonfw2]

You compare the price of your suggestion with that of hiring a Plaid everyday. IIRC a Plaid would be able to do all the things you suggest your all-inclusive plan would offer. LL access to all rides, reservations at restaurants, etc. I don't see how your all-inclusive would be any different other than the guest would be doing all the work. It reminds me of self checkout at grocery stores where you do it all yourself for the same price.

No. I don’t mean the all day VIP thing- I’m talking about the small group tours that cost $150-$300 per person.

 

[Steven G]

If I could have anything at DisneyWorld, I would have the Universal Express pass system and cost (usable at current lightning lanes). If they don't want to have unlimited which makes too much like a VIP tour (even though universal seems to do fine with both), then the lower tiered one which just allows you once per attraction is fine too.

They could keep the genie+ I suppose, or get rid of it, I don't like it anyway.

 

[Smugpugmug]

If I could have anything at DisneyWorld, I would have the Universal Express pass system and cost (usable at current lightning lanes). If they don't want to have unlimited which makes too much like a VIP tour (even though universal seems to do fine with both), then the lower tiered one which just allows you once per attraction is fine too.

I really want a system like this too if Disney MUST have a paid Fastpass option, but I don't think it would feasibly work. WDW has too many people attending their parks vs. Universal for it to be successful. Too many people as in too many people will be willing to buy it and we'll be right back to where we started in terms of slow moving standby lines.

 

[jimmymc]

I really don't things are all that different than before Covid. Resorts sold out, dining sold out 6 months in advance, park were incredibly crowded in 2018 and 2019. Genie+ is probably the biggest factor, due to the mad scramble at 7 am to get your first pass or the ILLs.

My solution is to just go back to paper tickets or a Maxpass-like system and raise everyone's admission by $10. That's about what Disney is bringing in right now with Genie+. FP+ was bad. I think we miss it because it was free, but planning your attractions to the hour 60 days in advance is neither relaxing nor easy. Make people get to the park before booking so the spots actually go to people who are motivated to get them.

 

[barbarabini]

Im pretty sure people are canceling trips. In 9 years, I couldn't get a week at BCV. About 5 weeks ago, i was able to book a two one bedroom villas for easter week.

 

[TigerlilyAJ]

Just out of curiosity, has anyone ever actually paid OOP for the Universal express pass? I know we only got it because it came with our hotel room. And the hotel rooms at Universal are much more reasonable, even at the Deluxe level that includes the express pass. It made the room feel like a deal, getting those passes.
But I can't imagine shelling out $120 pp for it.

I do think that the simplest idea would be to increase the price of Genie+ so that people like me would say No Way for a family. I never would spend so much extra that we could have another night of hotel, and at $50 per person per day, that would be what the decision would feel like. But is that enough? I fear that there are enough rich people and enough people desperate to try to guarantee a "perfect" vacation that even $100 G+ would still have lots of takers.

 

[jknc]

Lol,

TripAdvisor reviews of Walt Disney World are still horrific. Just truly downright horrific.

How many of those folks are active here?

 

[FigmentFans]

The thing that struck me is that Disney keeps solving the capacity issue by upsells, which is so anti-consumer it drives me nuts. I sometimes wish I didn't own DVC so I could walk away. But then I look at rack rates and I'm glad I have DVC.

What I mean is, I was looking at dessert parties and I was stunned. To me, and maybe the desserts are better than I give them credit, the point of the dessert party is to escape crowds. Essentially, Disney focused fireworks shows so that you need to be in front of the castle to 'see the projections'. This created terrible crowds. The solution, pay money to escape the crowds.

I see the same thing with Genie+. Pay money to escape the crowds. We aren't giving any reason for Disney to reduce crowding. If anything, all the money flowing to Disney creates *incentives* for Disney to have oppressive crowds so that they get more money selling ways to avoid the crowds. We had a terrible rope drop (EE) at MK in Jan/Feb. So many rides were down that lines were crazy long. We broke down and bought a SM ILL. Disney's failures got them more money. I'm kind of mad at myself now about that. Won't make that mistake again.

Then again, maybe Disney really will kill the golden goose and two years from now the parks will be wonderful with so many swearing off Disney. One can only hope.

I agree with the capacity issue, and that Disney right now has no incentive to fix it. While new rides are being added, older rides are being closed or the new rides are a makeover of an existing ride. Recent examples are replacing Ellen's Universe of Energy with Guardians, and re-purposing Maelstrom as Frozen. It would be interesting to check if overall capacity has really changed in 10 years, although more people are visiting. Not a problem you can fix quickly though.

In terms of FastPass/Genie, my preference would be a system similar to FastPass+ but you can only book a week out from the trip. Maybe give on site guests a day sooner. When you are only a week out, you have more solid plans and hopefully not as likely to book a FastPass that you don't end up using.

 

[bloomcruisers]

My trips started back in the 70's and have been so numerous I couldn't begin to count including a couple years with APs. So I had experienced all versions of ride access and dining reservations and dining plans up until CoVid hit. I was actually in the park the last day in 2020 before it shut down and haven't been back yet.
I have a 15 day trip planned for May and I am so not enthused. The overwhelming feeling of dread just takes over as I read people's experiences and the problems with Genie+. I've already taken ADR's off the table as I don't want to have to worry about them conflicting with whatever random ride times I might manage to get through Genie+. My grandkids will be disappointed that there will be no character meals; but my consolation is that I won't have to pay $70/meal for my 10 yr old "Disney adult" GS who hardly eats. The silver lining I guess.
As far as attraction wait times, I at this point would just prefer they do away with all versions of fast pass/Genie+/ILL and go back to all standby. The LL could still be used for child swap and DAS. But just get rid of the headaches associated with all the technology that just plain doesn't work in anything resembling an effective system. They seem to be incapable of making this system work in a user friendly manner. But they don't seem to care.
So I will go in May and make the most of it. But I suspect this may be my last trip.

 

[chicagodisneyguy]

Just out of curiosity, has anyone ever actually paid OOP for the Universal express pass? I know we only got it because it came with our hotel room. And the hotel rooms at Universal are much more reasonable, even at the Deluxe level that includes the express pass. It made the room feel like a deal, getting those passes.
But I can't imagine shelling out $120 pp for it.

We've purchased it on 3 trips (2014, 2016, & 2018) where we were staying at WDW. We bought 1 day hoppers and also the Express Pass. I think the first year was $39 or something crazy cheap. I think 2018 was $99 or so. But for us we usually do US mid-week during the fall....in the middle of our WDW trips. With Express Pass we can do both parks in 1 day and see everything we want. For us at $100 or more it's worth it.

The issue I think people will have with WDW is it's very hard to get through as much of the parks in the short amount of time you can at US. So if people want the pass to hit all parks they'd have to do it for multiple days. I think if Disney moved to a model like US their version will be more expensive. It's one thing to charge someone $15/pp and it be an underwhelming experience. At $150+ per person, per day, I would 100% expect minimal wait times. I'm not saying walk on, but not that far off.

 

[ShirikiUtundu]

The thing that struck me is that Disney keeps solving the capacity issue by upsells, which is so anti-consumer it drives me nuts. I sometimes wish I didn't own DVC so I could walk away. But then I look at rack rates and I'm glad I have DVC.

What I mean is, I was looking at dessert parties and I was stunned. To me, and maybe the desserts are better than I give them credit, the point of the dessert party is to escape crowds. Essentially, Disney focused fireworks shows so that you need to be in front of the castle to 'see the projections'. This created terrible crowds. The solution, pay money to escape the crowds.

I see the same thing with Genie+. Pay money to escape the crowds. We aren't giving any reason for Disney to reduce crowding. If anything, all the money flowing to Disney creates *incentives* for Disney to have oppressive crowds so that they get more money selling ways to avoid the crowds. We had a terrible rope drop (EE) at MK in Jan/Feb. So many rides were down that lines were crazy long. We broke down and bought a SM ILL. Disney's failures got them more money. I'm kind of mad at myself now about that. Won't make that mistake again.

Then again, maybe Disney really will kill the golden goose and two years from now the parks will be wonderful with so many swearing off Disney. One can only hope.

Agree with all this. There is no incentive right now for Disney to change anything right now despite individual complaints because they are selling out parks and restaurants at this (high) price point and this (low) level of service.

I have long said my preference would be for them to jack up the total price and provide the customer service experience that people should be getting at that price point. The question remains, what is that price where Disney makes the profit but people have a non nuts to butts experience in the parks fighting for rides and restaurants?

The microtransactions and staring at a phone all day has got to go.

I think we can all agree that like in your experience - forcing the customer to throw money at a problem Disney created is not ideal, but that's exactly what's happening right now.

 

[Jonfw2]

Agree with all this. There is no incentive right now for Disney to change anything right now despite individual complaints because they are selling out parks and restaurants at this (high) price point and this (low) level of service.

I have long said my preference would be for them to jack up the total price and provide the customer service experience that people should be getting at that price point. The question remains, what is that price where Disney makes the profit but people have a non nuts to butts experience in the parks fighting for rides and restaurants?

The microtransactions and staring at a phone all day has got to go.

I think we can all agree that like in your experience - forcing the customer to throw money at a problem Disney created is not ideal, but that's exactly what's happening right now.

Great comments...but there is ONE incentive Disney has to change something right now- if they find something they can make even more money from.