The answer to $15.00 Hour fast food restaurant wages

[FlightlessDuck]

Also, whenever people see executives receiving high pay they applaud and say they deserve it.

Nobody I know does that, actually.

 

[Colleen27]

I think the reason it will be "a wash" is that someone is always going to be on the bottom and not be able to afford what most people can. That person will always feel poor. Maybe reducing the number of people that need to be on the bottom by finding ways to stimulate growth in jobs that aren't unskilled and the number of people that qualify for them is a better path. Besides healthcare that is broken, there are a number of safety nets to assure that that everyone has food and shelter. Add healthcare to that and I'm not sure that an adult that is working a minimum wage job should be able to afford much more in the way of comforts as it provides no incentive to better themselves.

Feeling poor and actually being unable to afford a basic standard of living are two different things. And honestly, I don't think abject poverty is the only thing that will motivate a person to better themselves. That idea gets at what I was saying about our subconscious perception of the poor - no one says that being able to afford healthcare or a vacation makes middle class professionals complacent and unwilling to better themselves/work hard to advance. A better standard of living is the motivation at every level, and that is even more true for the poor for whom that better standard of living represents things like a car (or one that doesn't break down regularly), not having to worry about running out of food before payday, or no more utility shut-offs, than it is for your husband, who would be working for a few extra vacations or a fatter retirement account. But because we see the poor and less educated as inferior, we assume that only a hand-to-mouth existence steeped in daily stress and uncertainty will spur them to do better.

Also, those safety nets have a lot more holes than you might think. The waiting list for housing aid is closed more than it is open in my area, and once on it you have an 18mo wait before actually getting that assistance. And families with children and the elderly are given priority, so a working-age adult without kids is never going to get to the top of the list. Childless adults also cannot receive cash or food aid for more than a very short time (3mo, IIRC). Unless you have kids, there really isn't a safety net to assure even food and housing. But since my state is one of those that did expand medicaid under the ACA, at least healthcare is available.

I agree that we should be thinking about ways to reduce the percentage of our workforce that has to be at the bottom, but I think a higher minimum wage is a stop-gap measure while efforts to do so take shape. Because that's a really, really complex question that has no clear answer and deals with a lot of very powerful forces that we might not be able to change even if there was a true consensus united in trying to do so. And that doesn't even touch on the political climate that assures even the premise that water is wet cannot get such a consensus, or the fact that any solution would run contrary to the interests of big-money lobbying organizations that have a great deal of influence on both sides of the political spectrum.

 

[Lilacs4Me]

I don't get why everyone thinks $15 / hour is a lot of money. I don' think that's a lot of money to earn per hour.

One result of increasing the wage to this amount though, is that employers will expect a higher standard of worker, though. I think the min wage employees need to keep this in mind.

$15/hour is a lot of money to a person who is making $7.50/hr right now. In fact, that would double their income. Everyone dreams of what it would be like to do the same job for double the income. Heck, DH and I make six figures and we dream about what it would be like just to make $20K more a year - oh, how better our life would be!

It also depends on where you live - we live in an area where a 1400 sq foot brick cape cod with 4 bed/2 bath (and TINY kitchen!) on a lot where I can touch my neighbor's house and my house with my arms outstreched costs $300,000, with $7-10K in taxes. We pay almost $2000/month for homeowner-related bills. Making $30,000 a year would make us poor really fast here. Where we used to live, in a fairly rural part of Michigan, we could buy the same house for about $100K and have a mgt/tax payment of about $750 and a whole lot more land! It would be much easier to live on $15/hour there. And good thing, too, because a lot of companies pay their skilled/educated workers that much.

 

[kamik86]

Feeling poor and actually being unable to afford a basic standard of living are two different things.

See I wonder how much though it is that the standard of living has increased as well though. When the minimum wage started there weren't computers and color tv nevermind people feeling they they were a necessity to own one. Now many feel its a necessity to own one that fits in the palm of their hand (a smart phone). I have never heard of these in real life but when I watch older shows about world war II era single people tend to live where everyone had a room in a building and then met downstairs for meals so I wonder if this was the standard being aimed at.

Many people I know can't believe we only have one car between my husband and I now. Back then a family owning one was huge.

This goes back to what the minimum standard of living should be. Should it be that everyone should be able to afford their own car? What is considered acceptable housing?

 

[Christine]

See I wonder how much though it is that the standard of living has increased as well though. When the minimum wage started there weren't computers and color tv nevermind people feeling they they were a necessity to own one. Now many feel its a necessity to own one that fits in the palm of their hand (a smart phone). I have never heard of these in real life but when I watch older shows about world war II era single people tend to live where everyone had a room in a building and then met downstairs for meals so I wonder if this was the standard being aimed at.

Many people I know can't believe we only have one car between my husband and I now. Back then a family owning one was huge.

This goes back to what the minimum standard of living should be. Should it be that everyone should be able to afford their own car? What is considered acceptable housing?

You have a point. Our accepted basic standard of living sure has changed from 100 years ago.

 

[Hikergirl]

Just saw on Yahoo that Target raised their minimum wage to $10. That is a pretty decent starting salary.

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/exclusive-target-increases-minimum-wage-195449220.html

 

[Bianca and Bernard]

See I wonder how much though it is that the standard of living has increased as well though. When the minimum wage started there weren't computers and color tv nevermind people feeling they they were a necessity to own one. Now many feel its a necessity to own one that fits in the palm of their hand (a smart phone). I have never heard of these in real life but when I watch older shows about world war II era single people tend to live where everyone had a room in a building and then met downstairs for meals so I wonder if this was the standard being aimed at.

Many people I know can't believe we only have one car between my husband and I now. Back then a family owning one was huge.

This goes back to what the minimum standard of living should be. Should it be that everyone should be able to afford their own car? What is considered acceptable housing?

Smart phones, computers, cable tv. Fake nails and hair, plucking and waxing and threading, vacations and spinner rims. What is a necessity?
For some, it's a Disney vacation 2x a year. Isn't there a poster on here that was dealing with a bankruptcy, but owned DVC and went to Aulani a little while back? When we were dealing with ours, we were focused on putting food on the table and paying what bills we could, not going to see Mickey.
For others, it's having the latest electronics or nice cars.
There are a lot of people that struggle just to put food on the table, and don't go for all that extra crap. Those people I feel for.

 

[kamik86]

You have a point. Our accepted basic standard of living sure has changed from 100 years ago.

I think the best way to solve this problem would be to define a set standard of what is considered basic. Then each area would have to determine what salary would be required to pay for that basic amount.

The part I haven't figured out is how to define the areas. In my area North county is much cheaper then south county. But the entire area is pretty rural so we have people from NY state, south county, north county and a few other neighboring areas that all work at my job which is pretty much right in the middle of the county. But had my house been located in one of the more expensive towns in south county I'm pretty sure the price tag would have doubled with no other change.

So some figuring of nearby areas would almost be needed because it wouldn't make sense for a place with a 10 dollar minimum wage to be right on the border with a place with an 8 dollar minimum wage.

 

[Bianca and Bernard]

I think the best way to solve this problem would be to define a set standard of what is considered basic. Then each area would have to determine what salary would be required to pay for that basic amount.

The part I haven't figured out is how to define the areas. In my area North county is much cheaper then south county. But the entire area is pretty rural so we have people from NY state, south county, north county and a few other neighboring areas that all work at my job which is pretty much right in the middle of the county. But had my house been located in one of the more expensive towns in south county I'm pretty sure the price tag would have doubled with no other change.

So some figuring of nearby areas would almost be needed because it wouldn't make sense for a place with a 10 dollar minimum wage to be right on the border with a place with an 8 dollar minimum wage.

If we wanted to live on the west/north side of Jax, we would pay half as much in rent as do to live where we are. But IMO those areas aren't safe for my family. We pay the extra amount for my peace of mind. To us, that's a basic need.

 

[kamik86]

Smart phones, computers, cable tv. Fake nails and hair, plucking and waxing and threading, vacations and spinner rims. What is a necessity?
For some, it's a Disney vacation 2x a year. Isn't there a poster on here that was dealing with a bankruptcy, but owned DVC and went to Aulani a little while back? When we were dealing with ours, we were focused on putting food on the table and paying what bills we could, not going to see Mickey.
For others, it's having the latest electronics or nice cars.
There are a lot of people that struggle just to put food on the table, and don't go for all that extra crap. Those people I feel for.

This I agree with.

DH has a coworker that gets mad whenever he mentions a vacation he went on (his friends are generally asking about it, he isn't just talking to no one) because "some people can't afford all that and it must be nice to never have to worry about money". The thing is this person has three kids and two cars. We have 0 kids and 1 car. Salary isn't the only thing playing into why we can afford to go away more then they can.

 

[Bianca and Bernard]

This I agree with.

DH has a coworker that gets mad whenever he mentions a vacation he went on (his friends are generally asking about it, he isn't just talking to no one) because "some people can't afford all that and it must be nice to never have to worry about money". The thing is this person has three kids and two cars. We have 0 kids and 1 car. Salary isn't the only thing playing into why we can afford to go away more then they can.

My sister and her husband "struggle". They have never been on vacation, they struggle to keep their crappy car running, they can't afford good food (not that they would eat it; they survive on Mountain Dew, mac n cheese and KFC) or clothing (her boss actually gave her a gift card at work to buy a couple pairs of pants and shirts for work). When we go to Orlando for a day or two, they always go "must be nice to go stay in a hotel and go on vacation". When we go out to eat, and I post about it on FB (usually do when it's a local place, so they get more word of mouth advertising), I hear "wow, I wish we could afford to go out and eat". But they each smoke at least a pack of cigarettes a day; they own 2 70"+ tvs, 1 desktop and 2 laptops, new furniture every other year; and they go through so much alcohol, the liquor store guys know what to keep in stock for them. He gets a disability check (almost $2000 a month) plus workers comp payments (about $1000 a month), plus she works at Walmart (when she's not sick...all those years of drinking and drugs and bad living have caught up to her). Where they live, they can easily live on $3000 a month, even with a car payment. They get Section 8 rent (because he's disabled; they pay $400 a month for a 2 bedroom duplex), but no food stamps or other assistance.

Now, we pay more to live in a good neighborhood, with decent schools; I could pay $500 a month less, but I want my family safe. Same with the food we buy; I could go to Sav-a-lot and pay 1/4 the cost for the meat, but to us, the meat just isn't right, so I go to Publix or Whole Foods (depending on sales/availability) and get a better quality. We don't do a lot of processed foods; I make rice pilaf from scratch, instead of buying a box of Rice-a-Roni, for example. No Hamburger Helper or jarred spaghetti sauce. Do we pay more for food than those who eat those items? Yes, but that's our choice. We own 2 tvs: one 40" and DS's 20". 6 year old laptop, and a desktop that was rebuilt last year. I wish I could get new furniture; my couch is 8 years old and is dying. All we own is one car, and people get all weird about that. Would it be nice to have a second one? Sure; I could go grocery shopping during the week instead of battling the weekend crowds, or take DS to the beach while DH is at work during the summer. But the cost of insurance, gas, even the cost of the vehicle, is not something we can afford right now.

ETA: I stay home right now, because it is more important for DS to have a parent around than it is for me to bring in an extra $500-1000 a month. Next year, when he's in middle school, we might change that view, but for now, DH and I feel better about having me at home with him.

 

[kamik86]

If we wanted to live on the west/north side of Jax, we would pay half as much in rent as do to live where we are. But IMO those areas aren't safe for my family. We pay the extra amount for my peace of mind. To us, that's a basic need.

Ok in this case there is one city in north county that has a few sketchy areas as does the city I work in but the town I live in and the rest of north county isn't dangerous at all. Its just not ritzy with little boutique shops. The town in south county is one of those picturesque little boutique areas (it gets used for tv shows alot). I am a product of the school system of the cheaper of the cities and although it may have fallen some not that much. The town I live in now is even nicer. So this one isn't as much of a case of safety as just prestige.

 

[Colleen27]

See I wonder how much though it is that the standard of living has increased as well though. When the minimum wage started there weren't computers and color tv nevermind people feeling they they were a necessity to own one. Now many feel its a necessity to own one that fits in the palm of their hand (a smart phone). I have never heard of these in real life but when I watch older shows about world war II era single people tend to live where everyone had a room in a building and then met downstairs for meals so I wonder if this was the standard being aimed at.

Many people I know can't believe we only have one car between my husband and I now. Back then a family owning one was huge.

This goes back to what the minimum standard of living should be. Should it be that everyone should be able to afford their own car? What is considered acceptable housing?

While that is true, it hasn't changed the cost of living much. Housing, education, and medical care account for the vast majority of the change in cost of living, while the amount a typical family spends on utilities and consumer goods is relatively unchanged. Yes, a smartphone is more expensive than an old corded phone, but for most of us the service is less expensive than landlines were back in the days of per-minute toll and long distance charges. Everyone has a TV now, but we paid less in actual dollars (not adjusting for inflation) for our 42" living room set than we did for the 32" CRT television we bought my grandparents in the 90s. And a lot of things that were essential then and now have seen similar cost decreases - clothing is a smaller share of the family budget now than in the 50s, appliances are much less expensive after adjusting for inflation and much more efficient, which reduces energy bills, etc. Yes, our standard of living has improved over time but mostly because of technological advantages, not because we're spending more to have it.

As far as those TV shows, I think they show a way of life that is just as typical as Threes Company or Friends - yes, there are probably people who live that way, but it isn't the national norm.

Also, I'm not sure it is fair to fault individuals for societal changes that have made certain "luxuries" look more like essentials. I'm thinking primarily of a second car... Back when owning one car was an achievement and two was unthinkable, people lived in denser communities and the jobs were there too. That isn't the case in America now. Disinvestment in public transit has made living without one much harder than it was a generation or two ago, and suburban sprawl has all but guaranteed that lower-income workers can't afford to live in the places where the majority of the jobs are. It becomes even harder when you add in children and need to think about the quality of schools and the safety of neighborhoods.

 

[mom2rtk]

Wrong thread.

 

[mom2rtk]

Also, I'm not sure it is fair to fault individuals for societal changes that have made certain "luxuries" look more like essentials.

That sounds precariously close to "well, they have one......."

 

[sunshinehighway]

That sounds precariously close to "well, they have one......."

It doesn't if you actually put it in context with the rest of the post, not snip it out and look at it by itself.

 

[manning]

The government is already involved. They step in and bailout the banks and Wall Street in the name of the economy. They've granted corporations personhood when it suits them yet they have tax breaks and loopholes that working people just don't have.

I'm by no means a socialist, but if we're honest the government has already regulated in favor of businesses so that it can't fail.

Then it's up to the people to change it and that's in the voting booth.

 

[manning]

There are many European countries doing quite well and they have more socialist tendencies. I'm not saying that I care for too much socialism but it doesn't seem to hurt all nations to the degree of others.

I dislike the wage disparity and clear indications that the middle class is shrinking. That would truly leave the poor and the rich. I don't think that we want that either.

With the help of the United States. Now if Europe would pay their fair share of their national security I believe things will be different.

More:
http://www.paoracle.com/SocialismWORKS!/index.php?sw=Sweden

http://www.mrconservative.com/2013/03/5847-swedish-socialism-falls-apart/

Many point to Sweden as the model. If they are at the top of the heap you have to wonder how the rest of Europe is doing.

I just saw that Sweden is trying to back away from their model.

55% income tax plus other taxes.

 

[manning]

Smart phones, computers, cable tv. Fake nails and hair, plucking and waxing and threading, vacations and spinner rims. What is a necessity?
For some, it's a Disney vacation 2x a year. Isn't there a poster on here that was dealing with a bankruptcy, but owned DVC and went to Aulani a little while back? When we were dealing with ours, we were focused on putting food on the table and paying what bills we could, not going to see Mickey.
For others, it's having the latest electronics or nice cars.
There are a lot of people that struggle just to put food on the table, and don't go for all that extra crap. Those people I feel for.

There are 'wants' and 'needs'. You just described 'wants'.
I was raised in a poor environment. I lived with my grandparents because I lost my mother in childbirth. years later my aunt and I talked about days. She said something interesting "We where poor but we didn't feel like it. We had food on the table and a warm roof over our heads. We learned to work for what we got and that paid off in later life. We got a strong work ethic." My aunt is 11 yrs older than me. We both are enjoying a comfortable retirement. Matter of fact she is a snowbird. 6 mo in Florida, 6 mo in Michigan and belongs to a country club. We travel around....and own DVC.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

If they could use robots to do the work of a fast food worker they would already be doing it. The technology just isn't there to make it profitable, and even if it was, McDonalds would NOT be able to afford it, ever.

Also, am I the only one here who thinks $15 is still peanuts? I pay my babysitters more than that and I pay the going rate!

The going rate for a babysitter here isn't even minimum wage, more like $5/hr. And full-time daycare workers average about $10-12 per hour, tops.