THE AMAZING RACE 15, ~Season Premier~ 09/27/09 pg 64!

[robinb]

Isn't in interesting that we all see something different when viewing the same clip! I have not like Margie and Luke from the beginning, so I am sure that colors my view on things. I just re-watched the drama sequences .

Clue Box 1: Luke and Jen were running together with Jen hot on Luke's heels. IMO, Luke knew exactly where she was. There was no "sneaking up and startling the deaf guy" involved. Luke reached the clue box first and stuck his butt out to the right to block Jen from getting to the clue. Jen touched Luke on the right shoulder and then tried to reach around him to the right and he elbows her back from him. I have no idea why Jen didn't wait to get the clue.

Clue Box 2: Luke and Jen are running again, this time neck and neck. They both seem to be trying to shoulder the other one back as they run together. Jen can't stop in time and trips over Luke's feet and the clue box. She grabbed the clue box to steady herself as Luke plows into her. Just like Jen tried to reach around Luke at the first clue box, Luke tried to reach around her as she rights herself and got the same body block treatment from Jen in response.

Other observations:

Luke blew what happened completely out of proportion. He lied about Jen did to him TWICE. He said that she grabbed and pushed him at the first clue box when it's clear from the video that she only touched him on the shoulder. She touched him with her full hand, but there was no force in it: no shoving and no hitting. HIS elbow to her face was far more aggressive. He also lied about the altercation at the second clue box. He said that she grabbed his arm and she did not. He tried to reach around her to get the clue and she blocked his access with a stiff outstretched arm and OPEN hand. There was no grabbing involved.

I also just watched Margie's "you laughed at my son!" tirade. Luke just got through throwing phase I of his hissy fit and stalked off calling Jen a "witch". Phil called him back to the mat and Kisha tried to say something and Luke interrupted her saying "It's my turn to talk!" and Kisha let out a little nervous smile. I don't think it was directed at Luke AT ALL. When Margie went off on her Kisha did respond in a sassy way and laughed at her. She eventually apologized if they took her smile and laughter the wrong way. I was shocked at how unhinged Margie and Luke became and my mouth dropped open when she said something like "You should know how he feels because you are black!"

I can't help but wonder how the mat would have played out if Luke and Margie had come in first and Jen and Kisha had come in 3rd. My guess is that Luke wouldn't have been angry then.

Now ... to the rest of the episode.

I was so excited to see the cormorant fishing. That was very cool. I also liked seeing Guilin. I looked up the city in advance and I just wish we had seen more of the karst topography and less city streets. Next week is Beijing. I am very excited about that! We visited Beijing in August 2007 while they were still building the Bird's Nest. I hope that they are swimming at the Water Cube and I hope that they go up to the Great Wall.

One more thing ... last night's food. Take out Chinese. I actually shopped for ingredients to make pot stickers and hot and sour soup but I was too beat by the time I left the store to spend another hour or more cooking so I stopped at a local take-out place on the way home.

 

[disneyjunkie]

Clue Box 1: Luke and Jen were running together with Jen hot on Luke's heels. IMO, Luke knew exactly where she was. There was no "sneaking up and startling the deaf guy" involved. Luke reached the clue box first and stuck his butt out to the right to block Jen from getting to the clue. Jen touched Luke on the right shoulder and then tried to reach around him to the right and he elbows her back from him. I have no idea why Jen didn't wait to get the clue.

I saw it the same way.

It didn't look like Jen touched Luke defensively. I was shocked when he elbowed her in the face. I agree with Jen, it was a ***** move.

Then to go on in the cab about hitting/fighting them. No matter how upset you are or what is said to you, a man should not hit a woman.

 

[wowsmom]

Agree

I think that Kisha and Jen DO remember the leg before when Margie and Luke had their cab driver give the wrong directions to their driver. A strong team will not have to resort to lying, hiding clues (Mark and Michael and the bicycle pumps), pushing or shoving to stay in the race.

I felt sorry for Tammy and Victor. They looked so uncomfortable on the mat....and they ran a strong race!

The thing is, Margie and Luke didn't have their cab driver give wrong directions. They told their cab driver "don't tell him". Then after Kisha & Jen drove away, M&L's cab driver stopped and went back to get better directions.

In situations like this, I always wonder how the people feel when they see it air on TV...as in, when Kisha & Jen saw that M&L didn't say "give him wrong directions" but "don't tell him", did they at least think "oh...well, I guess we were wrong". There have been a lot of these "misunderstandings" over all the seasons and I always wonder how they feel when they see stuff at home that they didn't know actually happened.

I felt sorry for Tammy and Victor too!

 

[Jenvenza]

I think Jen and Kisha looked worse than Margie and Luke BY FAR. The were talking in the cab about how they would laugh at him and that is exactly what they did. I would have reacted the same exact way Margie did when she saw someone laughing at her son when he was trying to communicate. Neither times at the clue box looked malicious to me, but Jen took it too far by calling Luke a name. It was immature.

 

[ead79]

It's interesting to read how people can have such different impressions of something after watching the same footage.

When DH and I watched it last night, we felt that Kisha & Jen were more "in the wrong" than Margie and Luke. To me, it looked like mostly an accident at the first clue box involving momentum and both Jen and Luke being pretty competitive. However, I found it to be really classless for Jen to call Luke such an insulting name. That really rubbed me the wrong way, and I thought that kicked the whole negative tone up a notch.

At the second clue box, it looked to me like both Jen and Luke really went into it looking for a fight. They were both fighting tooth, hair, and nail to be the first to get to that box. That encounter didn't look like a big deal to me--I just think it added fuel to their fires so to speak.

At the mat, at first I thought that Kisha's laugh was just a nervous laugh. However, DH pointed out something that is really a critical part of why I think Kisha and Jen were much more at fault in this whole situation. Kisha and Jen had said on camera earlier in the leg that they like to look at people at laugh in their face just to make them more angry. So to me, if they went out of their way to say that, then they probably did exactly that at the mat.

I think Margie's "momma bear" instincts just really came out at the mat. I think she really just honestly felt that Kisha and Jen were really out of line and jumped to Luke's defense over-enthusiastically. I don't think that Luke was totally without fault without any means, but I personally do think that Kisha and Jen acted more rudely for sure.

 

[wowsmom]

At the mat, at first I thought that Kisha's laugh was just a nervous laugh. However, DH pointed out something that is really a critical part of why I think Kisha and Jen were much more at fault in this whole situation. Kisha and Jen had said on camera earlier in the leg that they like to look at people at laugh in their face just to make them more angry. So to me, if they went out of their way to say that, then they probably did exactly that at the mat.

You know, I'd kind of forgotten about that, but now that you mention it, I do remember Kisha and Jen saying they like to laugh at people.

I'm going to have to watch the episode again....

I think Margie's "momma bear" instincts just really came out at the mat. I think she really just honestly felt that Kisha and Jen were really out of line and jumped to Luke's defense over-enthusiastically. I don't think that Luke was totally without fault without any means, but I personally do think that Kisha and Jen acted more rudely for sure.

I agree with this.

 

[disneyjunkie]

Luke crossed the line when he elbowed Jen in the face. That was not an accident.

Margie just made matters worst at the mat. She refused to listen to anyone. Phil tried to explain that the girls were not laughing. She had her mind made up and was going to play the victim role no matter what anyone said.

I would expect someone her age to try to defuse the situation, not feed off of it.

 

[gometros]

The one girl apologized and tried to explain why she was smiling. Margie refused to listen. And even injected race.

Whoa, don't make it sound like it was a racist thing. She was just comparing the issue of the different minorities i.e being black to being deaf, saying that they should have been more understanding.

 

[Mrs.Toad]

I can't help but wonder how the mat would have played out if Luke and Margie had come in first and Jen and Kisha had come in 3rd. My guess is that Luke wouldn't have been angry then.

My guess would be the same, and that Kisha and Jen would have been the angry ones.

Then to go on in the cab about hitting/fighting them. No matter how upset you are or what is said to you, a man should not hit a woman.

When did he say that? I don't recall that, and couldn't find it just now looking for it, either. He said something like "time to get dirty", and "if I'd known that she'd called me a B it would've been on", and made a couple of fists. AFAIC, none of that means you're going to hit a person, just that you're mad and might give them a piece of your mind or whatever. Certainly no worse than Jen/Kisha (sorry, don't know which is which) saying M&L were the team they "had it out for".

At the mat, at first I thought that Kisha's laugh was just a nervous laugh. However, DH pointed out something that is really a critical part of why I think Kisha and Jen were much more at fault in this whole situation. Kisha and Jen had said on camera earlier in the leg that they like to look at people at laugh in their face just to make them more angry. So to me, if they went out of their way to say that, then they probably did exactly that at the mat.

Yea, I think that's what bugged me so much, too. I don't think they were laughing at Luke's signing, but they were still laughing at him, which is a childish, bully move IMO. They also seemed really proud of the first scuffle and bragged to Tammy and Victor about it from the boat, when M&L kept it to themselves. To me, they seem to have gone in looking for a fight and they got what they wanted. They seemed to really enjoy it all, but then were the first to complain about it at the mat and contradict Victor, who was trying to keep it light, saying something about "good-natured competition".

ETA: just rewatched and to clarify, J&K weren't the first to complain, it was tie! Luke was also responding to Victors comments at the same time, saying no, he was angry.

 

[declansdad]

Do those of you who think it was bad for Jen to call him a name think the same of Luke when he called them a name?

 

[disneyjunkie]

Whoa, don't make it sound like it was a racist thing. She was just comparing the issue of the different minorities i.e being black to being deaf, saying that they should have been more understanding.

Who said it was racist?

The fact that he's deaf isn't the issue. The issue is how Luke reacted when Jen approached the first clue box. No matter how you look at it, he was wrong.

My guess would be the same, and that Kisha and Jen would have been the angry ones.
When did he say that? I don't recall that, and couldn't find it just now looking for it, either. He said something like "time to get dirty", and "if I'd known that she'd called me a B it would've been on", and made a couple of fists. AFAIC, none of that means you're going to hit a person, just that you're mad and might give them a piece of your mind or whatever. Certainly no worse than Jen/Kisha (sorry, don't know which is which) saying M&L were the team they "had it out for".

In my neck of the woods slamming your fist into your open hand means fight.
We would that when I was in elementary school.

Luke hit Jen once and was signaling that he would do it again. Men don't hit women.

Did Luke ever apologize for elbowing Jen in the face or are they pretending it didn't happen?

 

[Mrs.Toad]

Do those of you who think it was bad for Jen to call him a name think the same of Luke when he called them a name?

No. The circumstances were different. She had called him a B several times, then he finally repeated it back to her. It wasn't right for him to do it, but it wasn't as bad as Jen/Kisha.

In my neck of the woods slamming your fist into your open hand means fight.
We would that when I was in elementary school.

Luke hit Jen once and was signaling that he would do it again. Men don't hit women.

Kids did it in my elementary school, too, much, much more often than they actually fought. They just did it to show they were angry. And while I don't know any hearing adults who do it, I would not assume that a fist means a physical hit to a person who speaks with his hands. Neither does an elbow equal a hit.

Besides, K&J keep calling Luke a B, they obviously think he's a woman. Is it OK for a woman to hit a woman?

 

[JPN4265]

What will Luke do when he no longer has mama to fight his fights? This boy is a lost cause.

 

[robinb]

At the mat, at first I thought that Kisha's laugh was just a nervous laugh. However, DH pointed out something that is really a critical part of why I think Kisha and Jen were much more at fault in this whole situation. Kisha and Jen had said on camera earlier in the leg that they like to look at people at laugh in their face just to make them more angry. So to me, if they went out of their way to say that, then they probably did exactly that at the mat.

I just watched the footage again and I don't think that Kisha was laughing at Luke. Luke starts to say something, Kisha starts to say something in return someone (I think Margie) says "stop" and Luke says "It's my turn to talk now!" Kisha looks down, draws her lips back in an uncomfortable smile and laughs nervously "ha, ha, ha, ha.". I think it was because she was just "hushed" and not because of Luke's signing. When Margie goes off on her about it she defends herself in a very sassy manner ("That's what we do. We laugh.") but I don't think she meant to laugh at Luke's disability. It was an innocent laugh, IMO. Yes, earlier in the episode they said they would laugh at people to make them angry but I don't think the initial laugh was about that. The sassy comeback ... yeah it was meant to piss off Margie and Luke who were already half way gone.

BTW, when the cheerleaders arrived on the mat did anyone else think "Thank goodness they cleaned up the train wreck!".

 

[disneyjunkie]

No. The circumstances were different. She had called him a B several times, then he finally repeated it back to her. It wasn't right for him to do it, but it wasn't as bad as Jen/Kisha.

Kids did it in my elementary school, too, much, much more often than they actually fought. They just did it to show they were angry. And while I don't know any hearing adults who do it, I would not assume that a fist means a physical hit to a person who speaks with his hands. Neither does an elbow equal a hit.
Besides, K&J keep calling Luke a B, they obviously think he's a woman. Is it OK for a woman to hit a woman?

An elbow to the face isn't a hit???

 

[Heidict]

I think at the first box, Jen was carried forward by momentum. Luke knew she was there, so she didn't startle him. It looked like he intentianally threw that elbow to her face to prevent her from getting a clue. Anybody throws an elbow to my face, calling them what she called them would have been mild.

Since when does anyone wait for someone else at a clue box? You always see them there, pushing and shoving, reaching around each other. Heck, I even remember seeing people rip clues out of other peoples hands if they both grabbed the same one. This is a race, waiting is not an option.

At the second box Jen slammed into box. It was hard to tell exactly why, but Luke outright lied about what happened after that. She did not grab him. It is soooo obvious when you watch it that he was lying.

It's a race. People are going to push and shove and call each other names. When Luke found out what Jen called him he became very upset and said something along the lines "that if he had known" and started pounding his fist into his hand, implying that he would have hit her. That is the interpretation that both my DH and I took from it. Punching your fist into your hand doesn't convey the message that you wanna give them a hug.

Still trying to figure out why Margie had to bring his deafness into it? What happened at the boxes had absolutly nothing to do with that. Is everyone supposed to step aside and let him go first because he is deaf? Since watching the race from the beginning, I didn't think that Margie or Luke had that mindset, but at the mat last night it seemed like it. I didn't perceive either of the girls laughing or making fun of him due to his deafness. I'm sure if they felt that way, something would have been implied or said at some point during the race and you can bet that they would have aired it.

Luke was stomping off like a brat and Margie went off the hook and went crazy. The girls could have handled themselves better, no doubt, but Margie came off as a lunatic last night. Even Phil tried to get her to calm down and she would just talk over him. No matter what anyone said, she saw her way, right or wrong. I'm sure that Luke has had a tough road growing up and dealing with his deafness in a hearing world, but it's not Jen and Kisha's fault, so why take it all out on them?

I'm ready to Margie and Luke to leave now. Maybe she just snapped after and exhausting day and went all mamma bear, but it really left a bad taste in my mouth and now I would rather see the cheerleaders win over them.

What have you read?

Oh, I wanna know also!! Where is it?

 

[robinb]

No. The circumstances were different. She had called him a B several times, then he finally repeated it back to her. It wasn't right for him to do it, but it wasn't as bad as Jen/Kisha.

How are the circumstances different? Margie only heard him called a B ONCE. Sure, the sisters repeated it in the taxi a couple of times but they didn't keep on saying: "Luke you're a B!" to his face. He and Margie heard it ONCE. He said it ONCE (well, twice if you count his signing ). They are equal on the face to face name-calling.

 

[ead79]

Do those of you who think it was bad for Jen to call him a name think the same of Luke when he called them a name?

Yes, I think it was wrong for Luke to call Jen the same name. He shouldn't have done that IMHO.

As for the elbow to the face thing--to me it looked more like her momentum carried her up on his back, and used his arm to shove her off his back--this brought his elbow up near her face. But it wasn't like a near miss or anything IMO from the footage. I still think that Kisha and Jen were looking for a fight personally.

 

[Mrs.Toad]

An elbow to the face isn't a hit???

It wasn't an elbow to the face. Watch it in slow motion. It's clearly an elbow to the arm, pushing her arm away after she set the whole thing in motion by grabbing around him. You can see her arm being pushed up into the air, and do not see her face being hit. Based on the camera angle, it's possible that her face was hit secondarily and we just didn't see it, but his intent was clearly to push her arm away to keep her from grabbing around to the clue box before he got his clue out.

Additionally, she didn't refer to it as a hit, but as an elbow and a "***** move". I'll take her word for it.

Yea, Luke overreacted, but to say he "hit her", "would do it again" and "went on" about it is an overreaction as well.

How are the circumstances different? Margie only heard him called a B ONCE. Sure, the sisters repeated it in the taxi a couple of times but they didn't keep on saying: "Luke you're a B!" to his face. He and Margie heard it ONCE. He said it ONCE (well, twice if you count his signing ). They are equal on the face to face name-calling.

Kisha/Jen may not have said "you're a B" again, but on the mat, while explaining to Phil, she said unapologetically, "I called him a B because it was a B move". So he still "heard it" from her three times before repeating it back to her. And at the risk of sounding like a kindergartener , she started it! I know, we should all be mature enough to take the high road and not respond in kind when someone starts something like that, but it can be hard not to react sometimes and I will always see the person reacting in a better light than the person who started it.

 

[suzanna1066@comcast.]

I think Luke/Margie and Kisha/Jen are both at fault. They all need to chill.