Thanks for the wheekchair discusison

[DisneyKevin]

While morbid obesity is surely a disability, being somewhat overweight is not, yet they feel an ECV is for them - even though they just walked out of Marshalls right next door carrying multiple bags.

Not all disabilities are visible and not everyone is qualified to judge other peoples abilities.

As an ambulatory adult, thank god you can walk and dont need assistance.

The fact that others abuse these things is irrelevant. The VAST majority do not.

I intend to say this every time someone suggests that someone is riding an ECV because they are obese...or lazy...or an idiot. Why they are doing it is beside the point and not the focus of this discussion.

Why someone is using assitance is NO ONE's BUSINESS and is not open to judgement.

Unless you are that person's physician, you (the general you...not the specific you) are not qualified to make that assessment.

This same lame argument comes up every time the use of assitance is raised.

Whether it's foreign tourists or nitwit frat boys...it's really irelevant to the coversation that people need to be aware of the difficulties of people using wheelchairs and ECVs.

The person that makes a disparaging remark, a sideways glance, a teeth sucking noise....anything that makes the person in the chair feel bad about themselves needs to be told in no uncertain terms where they can go and what they should do with all of their possessions once they get there.

Spend a day in a wheelchair (riding or pushing) or an ECV and your attitude will CHANGE!

 

[wishspirit]

While morbid obesity is surely a disability, being somewhat overweight is not, yet they feel an ECV is for them - even though they just walked out of Marshalls right next door carrying multiple bags.

You know how much walking is required in a Disney holiday right? MUCH more than just walking round a store. So yes, they might be able to do a reasonably short distance, but shouldn't they be able to enjoy their Disney holiday as much as the next person and not be in pain or discomfort? As some people have posted, their loved ones could have maybe done a whole day at Disney, but then been in pain for the next 2-3 days.

I don't see being in an ECV or Wheelchair as the 'fun' way to do a Disney holiday, and I guess most people who do it out of 'fun' realise that too within the first few days. Plus, just because you are in a wheelchair, doesn't mean you have to get front of the line. From my knowledge you wait the correct queuing time, then get on after that time, just through a different exit.

I support Kevin in this, till you have walked a mile in another persons shoes, you can never really know.

 

[astrodrummergirl]

I support Kevin in this, till you have walked a mile in another persons shoes, you can never really know.

I agree, and support Kevin's argument as well.

I also remembered a conversation that was had just before I went to WDW in september. As my mum has back, hip and knee issues (which unless shes walking with a limp, which she doesn't always do, its very hard to tell this. We suggested that we get her a wheelchair. She disagreed, not because she didn't want to, but she didn't want to burden herself on us. Which also, we didn't mind, especially when my sister and her boyfriend are both Rugby players, so they would definately have the strength to push her around.

I'll also add that wheelchair control is learnt with experience, which is something very hard to build up to a high ability just in a WDW holiday.

 

[crazydisneyman]

I absolutely agree with Kevin on this issue.

My Mom has had MS for the last 40 years, and she cannot walk long distances so we get her an ECV when we visit Disney. For most of our lives, we have always been stared at, glared at, and have received the rude looks from strangers where ever we go.

Kevin actually met my Mom during MF and we discussed this very issue. My Mom mentioned that when we had visitied WDW in the past, we would rent an ECV in the park as we didn't know about the ECV rentals for your entire trip at that time. Anyway, we were getting a rental at the MK and a cast member actually told her that 'She didn't look disabled', so it would be difficult for her to rent an ECV especially if they were in short supply. We couldn't believe it. After that point my Mom, who wears leg braces, would wear them with shorts or on the outside of her pants just so people would know she is disabled.

Kevin told her that he would have been right up in the face of that CM telling him how wrong he was.

The worst times at WDW for someone in a wheelchair or ECV are when it is crowded. We are constantly saying, "Excuse me, excuse me, coming through, excuse me, excuse me, etc." all the way down Main Street or in other places in the parks. I don't even think we know we are doing it anymore because it is so common. For the most part, people are kind and understand. Parents are aware of their children, and most people are patient. But, there are very rude people out there with children, and they will get a look and comment from me without hesitation.

This is the reality folks, not the exception. Kevin is right. It is no one's business what your reason is for using the ECV. We have seen people with a cast, people who 'look' as though they are able to walk without assistance, but when you talk to them as we do you find out that they have a condition that doesn't allow them to walk long distances.

I have to give Disney props regarding accessibility because I would say they are probably the most accessible place on earth for people with disabilities. I don't believe that one CM speaks for all of Disney as we have had many CM who were very helpful. We were just there for MF and we had a wonderful guest experience, including my Mom.

The best result of this conversation should be that we should speak up and be advocates for those who require assistance. If you see someone being rude, step up and call them on it. Be patient and let those in wheelchairs or ECVs pass by.

Thanks to uconn01001 for submitting the email. I hope that the legacy of your email will be that as DISers we can stand up and advocate for those who need us.

 

[lovethecastle]

my son is totally nonambulatory. One of the many reasons we love disney world vacations is that the cm's are by and large great. When they see us coming (esp. monorail cm's) they are ready to take care of him & us. Always with a smile & kind words.
While at the parks i feel there is not much you can do about the general public who whisper & such when we get on a bus first. Do these folks care that we are always last to get off a bus or monorail or out of a show or attraction. My guess is no.
What I do know is that I would stand at the end of every damn line at disney if my son was healthy & strong & could walk down every queue on his own.
like Pete said -maybe something should be done with these haters on the boards who go off about those in chairs or ecv's. They're comments are very shocking.
ps-loved the segment from David Parfett about Give Kids the World! Good for you for riding the chicken for your daughters.

 

[fakereadhed]

Using a stroller as wheelchair is the ONLY way I am able to take my DS on trips to WDW by myself and allow him to enjoy more than two or three rides. It has allowed us to take two magical trips in the past two years and most of our experiences have been positive. For the most part, CMs are wonderful. I think the few that made inappropriate remarks or eye rolling were newly hired. As for guests remarks, I choose to ignore them. The first time we went alone(when my DH is along, he carries him)the remarks bothered me. Now I don't feel bad about using what I need so that we can have the same trip as anyone else. That's what it's about. Leveling the playing field somewhat- not cutting in line or being "lazy". And on the last trip, I was thrilled that we only used the stroller for about 1/2 of the time in the queues. I was so thrilled at the progress he's made in the last year. If anybody thinks it's fun to have someone you love not be able to do what others can, whether it's obesity or other health issues, it's incredibly hard. When you see folks on ECVs, in wheelchairs, or with kids you think are too big to be in strollers please be kind. They don't have it as easy as you think.

 

[SpaceMtnFan]

Durring my past three trips to WDW (1998,2000,2004) My Mom used A wheelchair because of Foot and Leg Surgery over the pas few years. Durring the 2004 trip we got to be put in the wheelchair line on sthe Attractions all over the parks. We did not have issues with other guest. Anyone who has issues with guest with dissabilities should put themselves in their shoes. I wish my mom can walk better than she can now but im glad she can walk not be wheelchair bound.
Just A thought

 

[Decorated_Dust]

When I was in seventh grade, I had to be pushed in a wheelchair around WDW because I had dislocated my knee earlier. I actually had a very good experience in that I chose to walk on the rides and the crowds were not terribly bad. However, I can see what would happen on a crowded day in the parks and if this person is confined to a wheelchair.

The fact is that Disney World is not like a Target store where you can get the carts from free. You have to pay for a wheelchair or an ECV, which deters many "joyriders" from getting these things. That is how I know that the people who use wheels need them. That is why I try to stay out of their way as much as possible, even though I don't always succeed since I'm quite clumsy at times.

This actually brings to mind the Segway lawsuit from a while back. I can understand why people would want to use Segway's since they do not have to deal with much of the stigma associated. I don't believe Segways should be in the parks, and I think the judge was right to throw away the lawsuit (I mean, they never intended to visit WDW, for heaven's sake), but I can understand why someone would do that.

 

[wdwowner]

I fully understand being in a wheel chair, my mother-in-law had ALS, and that is the only way she could get around.

I know Disney does a great job, but one thing they need to do better is come up with a better way of locking in the ECVs and wheelchairs on the buses. That is probably the one part that is frustrating to others, the time it takes to strap in the ECVs on the bus makes thing worse that what is should be. That should be WDWs priority #1.

I am sure everyone really understands the ECV ans wheelchair thing, but when you have to wait 5 minutes for the bus driver to strap it in, it makes anyone go nuts. Especially when they are heading to a park or coming back in 90+ degrees heat.

 

[exwdwcm]

Kevin and Podcast team- really enjoyed the discussions/rants......

My mother has many medical issues, including planter facitis, severe asthma and a pitutary brain tumor which wreaks havoc on her hormones and entire body, including her energy levels, eyesight and more. she is on multiple medications, many of which make her extremely tired and sometimes confused (the tumor does that too). It's been a rough go. We usually don't use a wheelchair for her, but there have been a few days we needed one when she was having a hard time. We don't take advantage of the handicap line or anything like that. She can stand long enough to walk through line, she just can't manage the long walking around the parks.

and yes, it is a PAIN-----folks get in the way, she can't see as well sitting down like that. and not to mention the dirty looks she gets, since her conditions aren't 'visible' as Kevin said. A brain tumor isn't always visible, afterall.

I think it is so silly to hear those rude folks. they have NO CLUE what someone in the ECV or wheelchair is going through.

We have seen one instance of kids taking advantage of the wheelchair thing.....it was like 5 years ago though. One kid was in it on the way in to small world- they got through the exit, right on the ride. on the way out, a different kid got in and they laughed (we exited with them) and i overheard them saying "next time is my turn, i'll pretend i have a hurt ankle". so we knew for sure in that instance it was faking.

But i have never never ever questioned any other person in an ECV or wheelchair- whether they are overweight or not. i hate when someone gives them a look just because they are overweight. so so wrong!!!! The steroids my mom is on for her tumor make it very difficult for her to lose weight, as hard as she is trying (she's lost 30 on WW now though!!!).

anyhow- just wanted to say another supporter here. i hate reading those threads elsewhere on the board. some people are simply ignorant.

 

[DisneyKevin]

I fully understand being in a wheel chair, my mother-in-law had ALS, and that is the only way she could get around.

I know Disney does a great job, but one thing they need to do better is come up with a better way of locking in the ECVs and wheelchairs on the buses. That is probably the one part that is frustrating to others, the time it takes to strap in the ECVs on the bus makes thing worse that what is should be. That should be WDWs priority #1.

I am sure everyone really understands the ECV ans wheelchair thing, but when you have to wait 5 minutes for the bus driver to strap it in, it makes anyone go nuts. Especially when they are heading to a park or coming back in 90+ degrees heat.

And others are bothered by people with strollers
And others are bothered by large groups of foreign tourists
And others are bothered by specific groups being in the park
And others are bothered by public displays of affection
And on and on and on and on

To each and every one of the people bothered by somethjing someone else (thats not breaking a Disney rule or law) is doing I have one thing to say....

Go somewhere else where you can control your environment or get over yourself.

The folks in the ECVs and wheelchairs wish that this didnt have to be done as well. It embarasses them more than it annoys you and hearing about what a bother it is to everyone makes it worse.

These are the facts of life when visiting Disney...or any other public place.

 

[exwdwcm]

And others are bothered by people with strollers
And others are bothered by large groups of foreign tourists
And others are bothered by specific groups being in the park
And others are bothered by public displays of affection
And on and on and on and on

To each and every one of the people bothered by somethjing someone else (thats not breaking a Disney rule or law) is doing I have one thing to say....

Go somewhere else where you can control your environment or get over yourself.

The folks in the ECVs and wheelchairs wish that this didnt have to be done as well. It embarasses them more than it annoys you and hearing about what a bother it is to everyone makes it worse.

These are the facts of life when visiting Disney...or any other public place.

heck, i am bothered by my own stroller!

i agree, you don't like it, go somewhere else, or stay home!

 

[ericafny]

I too wanted to comment on this topic. I am a special education teacher, and I work with children with all different types of abilities (notice I didn't say disabilities ) Anyways, I am always aware of people who are using wheelchairs or ECV's and make sure I give them enough space to maneuver around the crowded parks. While there are many guests that are clearly inconvenienced by people in wheelchairs I also wanted to state that I have seen many bus drivers show the same feelings when someone using a wheelchair is waiting in line. I even saw one bus driver have the passenger get on the bus, didn't know how to safely strap in the wheelchair, and then made the passenger get off the bus. I was floored that this happened. I felt so bad for the passenger too because not only had that must have been humiliating for her, she now had to wait for a different bus to come and further delay her travel time.

I did want to share this really nice story with everyone though, because this really touched my heart and brought a tear to my eye. Last August, DBF and I were at MK seeing Wishes on our last nite at the World. After Wishes was over, we kind of hung around until the crowd diminished and I saw two people, a male and a female, both in motorized wheelchairs wearing the Honeymoon Mickey ears (you know the top hat for the man and the veil for the lady). On the back of their wheelchairs it said "Just Married". I thought that was so wonderful and I am hoping this story drives home to those people who are inconvenienced by a person in a wheelchair, that they are people too and do the same exact things you do, only maybe in a different way.

(getting off soap box now..)

 

[wishspirit]

I too wanted to comment on this topic. I am a special education teacher, and I work with children with all different types of abilities (notice I didn't say disabilities )

Working with kids with special needs is great isn't it? I can't wait till I can do it full time, rather than just the holidays.

One of my kids has a t-shirt which says 'If you stare long enough, I might do tricks!' which a picture of a wheelchair flipping. I love that tee-shirt, but I wish it didn't have to be made to make a point of people staring.

 

[Tissa]

My ds 13, has cerebral palsy and uses a wheelchair at WDW. I also have an autistic ds and I'm very used to us getting stared at all the time. I hated the looks when loading on the busses so I now drive to all of the parks to save others the inconvenience of waiting for us to load.

The most frustrating thing is that people assume we get to cut the lines. If that is the case why do I feel like we spend most of our time waiting?

People aren't all bad though. Last trip we were waiting in line and a little girl gave my ds a Wall E pin that she was given by a cast member. I just started crying. There is hope.

 

[challer]

Not all disabilities are visible and not everyone is qualified to judge other peoples abilities.

As an ambulatory adult, thank god you can walk and dont need assistance.

The fact that others abuse these things is irrelevant. The VAST majority do not.

I intend to say this every time someone suggests that someone is riding an ECV because they are obese...or lazy...or an idiot. Why they are doing it is beside the point and not the focus of this discussion.

Why someone is using assitance is NO ONE's BUSINESS and is not open to judgement.

Unless you are that person's physician, you (the general you...not the specific you) are not qualified to make that assessment.

This same lame argument comes up every time the use of assitance is raised.

Whether it's foreign tourists or nitwit frat boys...it's really irelevant to the coversation that people need to be aware of the difficulties of people using wheelchairs and ECVs.

The person that makes a disparaging remark, a sideways glance, a teeth sucking noise....anything that makes the person in the chair feel bad about themselves needs to be told in no uncertain terms where they can go and what they should do with all of their possessions once they get there.

Spend a day in a wheelchair (riding or pushing) or an ECV and your attitude will CHANGE!

I am not minimizing how difficult it is to use or push an ECV/wheelchair.

I understand not all disabilities are visible or constant or consistent.

I don't need to spend a day in a wheelchair to change my attitude- I am 100% sensitive to those who have disabilities and those who care for them.

Kevin, I agree with what you say, its just I took some issue with one point you made.

I agree that it is irrelevant to the conversation about the difficulties of those in wheelchair/ECVs, but I just take issue with the fact that once you ride in one you'd understand. You said yourself on the podcast, "Try going around a mall," and all I'm saying is that there are those who do try it, and don't need it, and do it for a joyride, and couldn't care less about who they hit or who they offend. I'm sorry, you see a SUV of guys bounding out of an SUV, pushing and shoving each other around in the parking lot, having a glorious time, and then all of them hop in ECVs and pretend its the Piston Cup - I know they don't need it.

Unless your point is one can never ever ever say with 100% certainty whether one needs a wheelchair/ECV, then I guess we disagree.

 

[ArielRae]

DH and I don't really mind wheelchairs but question why they get on the bus with the chair get it all buckled in and then get up out of the chair and take up a seat on the bus when they could just sit in their wheelchair. Can anyone explain why a wheelchair person would do that? Why take up the three seats for the chair then take up another to sit in when they can sit in their chair? I'm not looking for flames just seriously would like to know why they would do this. Why do they think they need to take up anouther seat? They do get buckeled in their chair if they stay in it.

 

[DisneyKevin]

I'm saying is that there are those who do try it, and don't need it, and do it for a joyride, and couldn't care less about who they hit or who they offend. I'm sorry, you see a SUV of guys bounding out of an SUV, pushing and shoving each other around in the parking lot, having a glorious time, and then all of them hop in ECVs and pretend its the Piston Cup - I know they don't need it.

Unless your point is one can never ever ever say with 100% certainty whether one needs a wheelchair/ECV, then I guess we disagree.

To which I would have to reply....so what? This is not germaine to the conversation.

Every time this conversation pops up...and it does frequently...someone points out that there are those that use wheelchairs / ECVs that dont need them. This point usually leads to further discussion as to who "really" needs assitance and why.

You can read back through a bunch of posts where those that do need assitance get stares and comments. Those in wheelchairs / ECVs are very often made to feel uncomfortable and humiliated and it's really time for that to stop.

There are ignorant people out there ready, willing and able to abuse anything in life. Pointing out that a few idiots abuse wheelchair use allows some people to question who "really needs" to use a wheelchair and my point is still the same...

It's none of your business who really does and doesnt need to use a wheelchair.

At the risk of hurting or humiliating someone who cant visit Disney without a wheelchair or scooter....assume that those using them "REALLY NEED" them and move on. It will cost you nothing and you might save someone from feeling bad about their situation.

Now....please, understand that I have nothing against you or anyone else that has posted and I ap[ologize if it seems I have jumped all over innocent people. It's just I have taken part in too many of these conversations and it's my opinion that the language and thought process used to discuss this topic needs to change.

Consciousness needs to be raised, as people who have no other choices are being made to feel inferior, ashamed or at the very least "in the way" and in my opinion....thats unacceptable They face enough barriers in life.

 

[DisneyKevin]

DH and I don't really mind wheelchairs but question why they get on the bus with the chair get it all buckled in and then get up out of the chair and take up a seat on the bus when they could just sit in their wheelchair. Can anyone explain why a wheelchair person would do that? Why take up the three seats for the chair then take up another to sit in when they can sit in their chair? I'm not looking for flames just seriously would like to know why they would do this. Why do they think they need to take up anouther seat? They do get buckeled in their chair if they stay in it.

Because they are safer in an actual seat.

 

[ArielRae]

Because they are safer in an actual seat.

Thanks for the reply.
Yea, l'd feel safer in an actual seat with the way some of those bus drivers drive too.
I've had to hang on for my life a few times. Especially with the quick stops for those crazy tourist drivers.