Thank you to this board, but our upcoming group trip will be one and done!

GPC0321

DIS Veteran
Joined
Aug 1, 2015
I get it, but it's really not a fair comparison.

If I'm visiting a city, I can book some dining reservations at any point, not a certain number of days in advance. I can also book tours or buy event tickets at the same time. Coordination is so much easier.

Is it still more difficult to plan with 12, yes, but IMO DW puts unnecessary restrictions on too many aspects of the process.
I would argue that it isn't WDW that puts the restrictions on guests, it's the guests themselves that do this. Disney opens up the ability to make dining reservations 180 days in advance and FastPass reservations 60 days in advance. They don't force anyone to get up before dawn and frantically hoard ADRs and book FastPasses like their life depends on it.

For the record, I just checked to see what times are available for dinner tonight, and there are plenty of great places available. Not all of them, no..you won't get BOG or Storybook or CRT same day. And if you want Ohana, you'll be eating dinner at 9:55 tonight, but there are plenty of others. Granted, I looked for a party of 3 instead of 12, and that does make a difference. That's always going to make a difference when trying to secure reservations for extremely popular restaurants no matter where you are.

As for Fastpasses, rope dropping can get you on the attractions you can't secure Fastpasses for. I rode FoP last summer and was off the ride before breakfast time. It wasn't stressful at all, there was a herd of people, and it certainly wasn't walk on, but it was do-able. Again, that's going to be harder for a group of 12 with various ages and likes and dislikes to consider. I went by myself that morning because I was the only one who wanted to ride it. Made the decision literally at 5am that morning when I had woken up with the idea that I wanted to go do it. Got up, got dressed, informed the others of what I was doing (they thought I was nuts, lol), and off I went.

Disney can be as flexible as the person who is visiting it is willing to be. If you and/or your group has a lot of restrictions (number of people, variety of likes/dislikes when it comes to food and attractions, different personalities (early risers vs night owls, etc), then yes...it's going to be a lot more stressful. And if not getting certain ADRs or FastPasses is going to ruin the trip, that makes it even more stressful.

Instead of thinking of all the barriers that you see that might prevent you from having a good trip, turn it around and think of all of the amazing things you will get to do. No trip is ever going to be perfect. There will be inconveniences. Rude guests. Transportation glitches. Ride closures. Thunderstorms. Heavy crowds. Not-so-great food. Disappointed family members. That's just how it is. But there will also be Mickey Mouse and countless opportunities to smile and laugh and have fun. ;)
 

GoofyRonda

Earning My Ears
Joined
Oct 21, 2010
I have gone with a big group twice (My side and DH side). I felt the extra pressure of making sure everyone else is happy. No one wanted to do any planning. My advice don’t do group trips! My family of four goes every year and has a great time.
 

LSUmiss

DIS Veteran
Joined
Sep 8, 2014
I agree a ton of planning but I think it allows/ensures the trip is somewhat successful . If you put your time in doing research you get rewarded with getting to do the majority of what you want.
We used two EMMs to help pound out what we wanted at MK and TSLwhwn you factor in breakfast pricing isn’t that bad ..
Oldest son and I went to Cali this summer and DL is a totally different experience . So
laid back with max pass day of booking fastpasses and ADRs are so much easier to get. Totally different relaxed vibe .
Hope you have a wonderful trip and it’s all worth in the end for you
Actually this is where I think wdw sets ppl up for disappointment. We always plan & know all the ins & outs so it really aggravates me when plans have to be scratched for some reason. That didn’t happen as much for us when we were a party of all adults, but now that we travel with little kids, it happens more. So it’s really disappointing that something doesn’t go well when you spend mos planning & researching. And we go often & don’t feel we have to do everything so I can only imagine how someone on a once-in-a-lifetime trip would feel.
 
  • TammyLynn33

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Oct 8, 2008
    Actually this is where I think wdw sets ppl up for disappointment. We always plan & know all the ins & outs so it really aggravates me when plans have to be scratched for some reason. That didn’t happen as much for us when we were a party of all adults, but now that we travel with little kids, it happens more. So it’s really disappointing that something doesn’t go well when you spend mos planning & researching. And we go often & don’t feel we have to do everything so I can only imagine how someone on a once-in-a-lifetime trip would feel.
    I guess to me with 4 kids plans changing is a given and disappointment is a side effect :) Vacation is the same as every day life.. and I always focus with the kids on just how blessed we are to be able to be there , everything else is just icing on the cake ;)
     

    Klayfish

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    May 19, 2016
    I would argue that it isn't WDW that puts the restrictions on guests, it's the guests themselves that do this. Disney opens up the ability to make dining reservations 180 days in advance and FastPass reservations 60 days in advance. They don't force anyone to get up before dawn and frantically hoard ADRs and book FastPasses like their life depends on it.
    Yep, precisely. People like to rip Disney about this stuff, but it's not their issue. It's purely a guest created issue, and one that really doesn't have a "right" answer.
     
    Joined
    Oct 23, 2015
    Actually this is where I think wdw sets ppl up for disappointment. We always plan & know all the ins & outs so it really aggravates me when plans have to be scratched for some reason. That didn’t happen as much for us when we were a party of all adults, but now that we travel with little kids, it happens more. So it’s really disappointing that something doesn’t go well when you spend mos planning & researching. And we go often & don’t feel we have to do everything so I can only imagine how someone on a once-in-a-lifetime trip would feel.
    I have never been on a perfect vacation. There's always been something. From travel delays, to an excursion or paid experience that didn't live up to what I had in mind, to food not being stellar to even construction (as in rooms being worked on or entire bungalows being dismantled and rebuilt) at the resort/hotel never mentioned, to plain 'ole weather, to places that were complete letdowns (looking at you Myrtle Beach lol).

    To go into any vacation without flexibility, without the understanding that things may happen is going to set yourself up. I could give so many instances but suffice to say while Disney has things you can plan for this is no different than any other vacation in the sense that there are things you can plan for. And as with so many other things those things you plan for may change. I see no reason that one can't be disappointed (I sure have :) ) but Disney is but one place where things that were planned get adjusted. I guess I envy the people who have never had to deal with any sort of change on vacation, any sort of "well that didn't go to plan".
     

    LSUmiss

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Sep 8, 2014
    I have never been on a perfect vacation. There's always been something. From travel delays, to an excursion or paid experience that didn't live up to what I had in mind, to food not being stellar to even construction (as in rooms being worked on or entire bungalows being dismantled and rebuilt) at the resort/hotel never mentioned, to plain 'ole weather, to places that were complete letdowns (looking at you Myrtle Beach lol).

    To go into any vacation without flexibility, without the understanding that things may happen is going to set yourself up. I could give so many instances but suffice to say while Disney has things you can plan for this is no different than any other vacation in the sense that there are things you can plan for. And as with so many other things those things you plan for may change. I see no reason that one can't be disappointed (I sure have :) ) but Disney is but one place where things that were planned get adjusted. I guess I envy the people who have never had to deal with any sort of change on vacation, any sort of "well that didn't go to plan".
    But, imo, Disney requires more scheduling & planning so far in advance & that’s what leads to the frustration & disappointment. Why does it have to be 180 days??? Why can’t it be both adr & fp at 90 days? In the end, it’s still just a theme park so it shouldn’t be so complicated. I think many ppl believe they shouldn’t have to invest as much time & energy (or more) into planning a trip to a theme park as they would a trip to Europe.
     
  • Joined
    Oct 23, 2015
    But, imo, Disney requires more scheduling & planning so far in advance & that’s what leads to the frustration & disappointment. Why does it have to be 180 days??? Why can’t it be both adr & fp at 90 days? In the end, it’s still just a theme park so it shouldn’t be so complicated. I think many ppl believe they shouldn’t have to invest as much time & energy (or more) into planning a trip to a theme park as they would a trip to Europe.
    **Apologies for the length of the post in advance :) **

    Maybe it's where you've been then because I've been to places that require more scheduling and planning than Disney and with far less flexibility.

    It's 180 days to my understanding because it used to be less time but guests wanted more lead time. I believe from what other posters have said it was 90 days before and less (I don't remember how many days it's been at other times) in the past. Even with DLR they had 14 days for Oga's but people still complained on the Boards asking when reservations would open up...now Oga's is 60 days and so is Savi's at least (60 days is DLR norm). 60 days wouldn't have worked for me personally because I planned our September DLR trip weeks in advanced because I wasn't positive if we could go or not. But it is what it is and there are def. people who are so happy to have the ability to plan more in advance. It was causing people stress over on the DLR side to not be able to plan more than 14 days out for Oga's AND that's with having no pre-planning FP.

    Obviously Disney sets the bar that you have a lead time for ADRs and FPs pre-planning to begin with. That said the guests often direct where things go.

    I would agree with your comment that there are people who believe they shouldn't have to invest as much time for a theme park but I'd exclude Europe and just say that there are people who don't think a theme park should have planning whatsoever (and it's not as if I can't understand that viewpoint).

    Most of the complaints I read while the lead time is mentioned you can kinda more tell the resentment is towards planning at all--the idea that before you get to the theme park you've planned where you want to eat and several of the rides you want to ride at specific times. Whether it's 180 days or 60 days the bulk of the complaints I see are just the pre-planning aspect. Even if you had where you booked only 1 day in advance you'd have people (pretty sure it's even been mentioned on this thread) who say "well now I can't just wake up and go to whatever park I want to go to".

    And no matter what there will be people who blame Disney because they couldn't get exactly what restaurant or ride that they wanted dispite the fact that potentially thousands of other guests are trying for the same thing for the same day. Wouldn't matter if it was the day before, the day of or whatever time you get. Not to mention the people who say if they can't get a FP for a ride they won't go on it OR if FP didn't exist they wouldn't go to Disney to begin with. If you can't get the ride(s) you want it's not going to matter when you booked that (because you can book the day of as well and also do rolling 4th). It will only matter that you couldn't get the ride you wanted (if you're of that viewpoint towards the absolute necessity of FP and won't ride without it).

    To my understanding it's been a decent amount of time since ADRs were done in a kiosk at the parks. FP+ however is obviously newer though it's been around for at least 6 years (don't remember when in 2013 it was started to be rolled out) however the concept of arranging when you would be riding a specific ride via FP was started in 1999 (from what I was reading..I actually hadn't realized it's been that long already). I'm sure you had people back then and now who are annoyed that you even have this option preferring to not have to worry about a time schedule at all.
     

    TaraWasHere

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Feb 22, 2019
    The worst trip I've ever had to Disney was during Spring Break in 2018. I can't imagine going for the first time during that time of year. I wish you so much luck.

    I'm one of those who has slowly been watching/experiencing the changes over the years, and adjusting as I go. For me planning is just a part of going, and really not something that stresses me out. In fact, I kind of enjoy it. It's almost a challenge to try and get the the hardest to get reservations and FPs every year. That doesn't mean I don't know where you are coming from. The shear amount of planning that has to go into a trip, not to mention all the "special" side activities and events you feel you are missing out on if you don't plan for them is just getting ridiculous. It's gotten to the point that if you just want to stand in a certain spot to watch HEA you have to make a reservation to do it. If you want to stay late on certain nights, you have to plan to get extra tickets. If you want to sit up front during the concerts, you have to plan to get special reservation packages to do it. Even making a light saber or standing in certain bars require special reservations. It's a lot to know/keep track of, and for those who just want to be there it can seem a bit insane to have to do that kind of planning. I see a whole lot of families just sitting outside attractions or restaurants waiting for their fastpasses/reservations. (most likely because the standby lines are too long to do much of anything else)

    I've developed a system that works for us, and makes sure we get to do what we want when we visit. But to be honest, if the experience I had in 2018 was my first trip...It would have most likely have been my last trip as well.
     
    Joined
    Oct 23, 2015
    Even making a light saber or standing in certain bars require special reservations.
    That's a mistake I think Disney made with SWGE. I completely 100% understand why they made Oga's require a reservation (I don't remember if at DLR they were allowing people to go in and take quick photos/tours or not). That said with Oga's, Savi's and Droid Depot all requiring a reservation it makes a land have less 'walk-up/explore' experiences.

    At least with HP over at Universal you could walk into Olivander's without a reservation and without buying a wand. You'd have to wait in a line but you got to make that decision right then and there rather than not being able to experience it without a reservation. Obviously some of that is to keep it an intimate experience but I kinda don't see why Disney couldn't have had an extra room for Savi's and Droid's for people to see it and have the ability to take photos maybe they even could have had a line available for people who didn't pre-plan reservations..maybe you'd wait a lot longer potentially not be able to actually make one if time ran out but at least it's something. Would have lessened the complaints I've heard, read and have myself. Maybe they thought a line would take people out of the theming but of course you have a line for check in for Oga's and I don't think it broke the theming over at HP personally.
     

    mickey520

    Earning My Ears
    Joined
    Sep 17, 2019
    I echo what a lot of other people have said.

    My wife and I planned a 6-week Europe trip - we knew every bus, every train, every hotel for 6 weeks of our life. And we had a great time. Then we did a similar 6-week trip in South America, but we only booked our very first night's hotel, then we went with the flow for 6 weeks. And we had a great time.

    Both trips, and both styles, led to near-catastrophes. Missed trains = crazy stressful. And surprise, surprise, not knowing where you're going to sleep tomorrow night can = crazy stressful! Hate a city? Well, you booked 4 nights here, so you're staying? Didn't know that the boat to take you out of the remote wilderness in Patagonia requires reservations? Good luck getting home!

    But both trips were still amazing!

    It's all about what kind of trip you want. I'm in the process of planning a multi-generational trip for January and thanks to advice from other posters, I've realized it can't be the same kind of trip as our small family trip a few years back. The most important thing is the time you're spending with your family! And maybe you go and decide the work wasn't worth the return, and next family vacation is to somewhere different!

    I can totally relate to the OP though - it's a full-time job to plan a week in WDW for a big group!
     
  • JakeAZ

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Sep 25, 2018
    Evidence

    So, it's been about 1 month since my 180 day mark.

    I was able to snag (we will have DDP, so we are trying to do meals that included characters / show seats / early access to SDMT):

    BOG for dinner for all 12 (6 x 2 and yes I know we may not sit together) at our preferred time. The next time available, as of now, is 4 hours later
    Chef Mickeys for breakfast (all 12 on reservation) at our preferred time. The next time, as of now, is 3 hours later
    All 12 of us (over multiple reservations) for PPO BOG breakfast at our preferred time as close to 8am as possible.
    All 12 of us (6 x2) at our preferred late time for Festival of Fantasy Dining package. The closest time is 90 minutes earlier.
    We also have reservations for Fantasmic dining / ROL dining. Both of those still have times available at our preferred times.

    Since then:
    DW has changed the hours at MK on one day. (not a huge deal, but a sign of things to come)
    DW has added 4 events. 2 EMM (not a big deal as these can be planned around) and 2 DAH

    I was really looking forward to trying to work in a AK DAH. Turns out, its on the day we planned for Universal. There was no rhyme or reason why we picked that day for Universal, we just did. We then worked the DW ADRs around it.

    So now, if we want to try and find a way to do the after hours event, we'd have to make major changes to what has already been booked. Raise your hand if you believe I can rework some of those hard to get dining reservations....

    Again, I know the rules, and I'll play by them, but I haven't even gotten to our fast pass day and our schedule has become very rigid.
    Again, I'm not trying / expecting to get to everything. BUT, I'd like the ability to chose from the full slate of options, without having to start over each time something is added.
    We are really hoping a HS DAH is added to our week. I believe I'll be able to make that work if it is, but who knows?!

    I don't feel it's an unreasonable request for guests to want to have as much info as possible (hours, events, etc) known to them before we are asked (or allowed) to start booking things that could prevent us from being flexible down the road.
     
    Joined
    Oct 23, 2015
    So now, if we want to try and find a way to do the after hours event, we'd have to make major changes to what has already been booked. Raise your hand if you believe I can rework some of those hard to get dining reservations....
    You can't have it all though right?
    That said you've got a lot of positives..maybe focus on those :)

    I think it's absolutely awesome that you got all those ADRs..isn't that something to be happy about? Chef Mickey's for 12 at your preferred time, that's amazing!
    I think it's absolutely awesome that you got your preferred late time for FOF dining package..isn't that something to be happy about?
    I think it's absolutely awesome that you got both Fantasmic and ROL dining AND you go the preferred times..isn't that something to be happy about?

    AND for 12 people!

    I'd also say you were able to choose from a slate of options weren't you?

    What if you could have gotten DAH AK on the night you wanted but then one or more of the ADRs/reserved seating wasn't available when you went to book them? I sympathize with you I truly do but I also think that it's slipping into the "I won't be satisfied because xyz" kind of thinking. I'm guilty of that myself at times..and my husband is right there to remind me when I do lol. And please understand I'm not meaning this in a mean way at all :) :)
     

    JakeAZ

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Sep 25, 2018
    You can't have it all though right?
    That said you've got a lot of positives..maybe focus on those :)

    I think it's absolutely awesome that you got all those ADRs..isn't that something to be happy about? Chef Mickey's for 12 at your preferred time, that's amazing!
    I think it's absolutely awesome that you got your preferred late time for FOF dining package..isn't that something to be happy about?
    I think it's absolutely awesome that you got both Fantasmic and ROL dining AND you go the preferred times..isn't that something to be happy about?
    I believe I've said over and over I am completely aware we won't be able to do everything. I am 100% OK with that.

    The "you should be happy you got what you got" defense isn't valid IMO. That's just more evidence of how DW is really in control. The guests are captive to their system. I could have easily worked in the AK DAH if I knew about it in advance.
    I'd also say you were able to choose from a slate of options weren't you?
    I was able to choose from a slate of dining options. That's it. Events and rides have to then be worked around those dining options.

    My original post was about how DW isn't flexible. I stand by that.
     
    Joined
    Oct 23, 2015
    I believe I've said over and over I am completely aware we won't be able to do everything. I am 100% OK with that.
    I understand that. But a lot of your comments speak otherwise respectfully :flower3:.

    The "you should be happy you got what you got" defense isn't valid IMO. That's just more evidence of how DW is really in control. The guests are captive to their system. I could have easily worked in the AK DAH if I knew about it in advance.
    Not valid? Really? Ok..

    I'm saying focus on the positives, it was a genuine maybe you're forgetting what worked out for you kind of thing.

    What I said is if you could get DAH for AK for your preferred night but now you couldn't get one or more of the other ADRs or preferred seating what then? (rhetorical question) Would you be happy that you got DAH AK or be more disappointed that one or more of your ADRs or preferred seating wasn't available. You couldn't have controlled that if that happened.

    You got multiple things for your party for your preferred times and rather than focus on that you're like well now this has come up so now I'm more focused on that. At the beginning people called you out for what appeared to be a more negative attitude about it all. I disagreed in a fashion and I still do disagree in a fashion although it's starting to seem more like that..it can be all too easy to slip into that; was just trying to get you to think of the good things and not focus on the negatives.

    I'll leave you to your trip planning though without further commenting. I wish you the best and that you have a good one pixiedust:
     

    Nancyg56

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Aug 17, 2005
    I believe I've said over and over I am completely aware we won't be able to do everything. I am 100% OK with that.

    The "you should be happy you got what you got" defense isn't valid IMO. That's just more evidence of how DW is really in control. The guests are captive to their system. I could have easily worked in the AK DAH if I knew about it in advance.

    I was able to choose from a slate of dining options. That's it. Events and rides have to then be worked around those dining options.

    My original post was about how DW isn't flexible. I stand by that.
    I think that we all choose the trip we want to experience. Honestly, if you did not want to work around dining ADR's, and for a family as large as yours,booking meals at any resort vacation destination might be problematic, it may have made more sense to stick to counter service meals and perhaps off site restaurants, and add in TS as you wanted them wherever they were available. You make the choice to prioritize ADR's over spontaneity. Many people choose to do the opposite, and make it work.

    I book large family trips for my crew, and I can tell you that in our favorite resort hotel I need to book our meals in advance and then stick to the plan or cancel the meal. This is due to the size of our traveling party. I have booked my meals when we travel as a family to NYC, and book my shows., Once booked, it is done. We work around the reservations in place.

    I know that it can be frustrating to try to plan a WDW trip and find that there are compromises that need to be made, however can you imagine the alternative? You say you knew going in you could not do it all, but did you? You can make DAH work if you give something else up. That's what we do. If something better comes up we let something go.
     

    JakeAZ

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Sep 25, 2018
    I understand that. But a lot of your comments speak otherwise respectfully :flower3:.

    Not valid? Really? Ok..

    I'm saying focus on the positives, it was a genuine maybe you're forgetting what worked out for you kind of thing.

    What I said is if you could get DAH for AK for your preferred night but now you couldn't get one or more of the other ADRs or preferred seating what then? (rhetorical question) Would you be happy that you got DAH AK or be more disappointed that one or more of your ADRs or preferred seating wasn't available. You couldn't have controlled that if that happened.

    You got multiple things for your party for your preferred times and rather than focus on that you're like well now this has come up so now I'm more focused on that. At the beginning people called you out for what appeared to be a more negative attitude about it all. I disagreed in a fashion and I still do disagree in a fashion although it's starting to seem more like that..it can be all too easy to slip into that; was just trying to get you to think of the good things and not focus on the negatives.

    I'll leave you to your trip planning though without further commenting. I wish you the best and that you have a good one pixiedust:
    I apologize for coming across rude. It was not my intention. I'm just frustrated.

    When I go on other trips, I'm able to look at all the options, decide what we want to do and what we can't do and go from there. I can't do that with DW. Too much of the planning depends on factors not known at the time you begin booking things.

    I respect your opinion and appreciate your comments.
     

    JakeAZ

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Sep 25, 2018
    You can make DAH work if you give something else up. That's what we do. If something better comes up we let something go.
    Totally get this. But in my situation, it would require quite a bit of reworking. If I had known about it in advance, I could have worked it in with no problem. Or I could have decided if it was more important than an ADR without having to start over.

    There is no guest benefit to opening up dining 180 days out. Why not open it up 100 days in advance? Why not open it up when FP window opens?
    I know the answer and most of you do too.
     

    Nancyg56

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Aug 17, 2005
    I apologize for coming across rude. It was not my intention. I'm just frustrated.

    When I go on other trips, I'm able to look at all the options, decide what we want to do and what we can't do and go from there. I can't do that with DW. Too much of the planning depends on factors not known at the time you begin booking things.

    I respect your opinion and appreciate your comments.
    I know that you are over it, but if you ever decide to return, look at historical data. I use it a lot to figure out if parties, etc happened on specific nights. That way, I can also see events that have occurred in the past and decide if I want to think about them for my group. Also, if you are determined to dine as a large group, think about prioritizing which meals are must do meals together, and then book them.

    From there, leave the meals to chance. A compromise for dining is really the easiest to manage IMO because there are plenty of decent CS meals to choose from, and finding openings at some of the out of the way resorts such as Olivias or Turf Club may be easier to book at a closer date or even last minute. Basically, plan the way you plan in other destinations: pick what you want to do, keep an eye out for additional choices, and compromise when necessary.

    I am not trying to minimize your frustration, but to mitigate it. I have found that many times people focus on Must DO Dining, or the elusive FP that must be had, and then don't let go even if they really want to do something else. I believe that once you arrive with your group you will find that some are going to toss your carefully made plans to the wind, and for people like my husband (who never saw that coming) it was a shock. He had envisioned all of us joined at the hip all day every day. Oh what fresh Hell would that have been!!! LOL!!!!! I feel badly I did not tell him in advance that people were going to peel away and head off on their own, and some would skip dinner with us, or that I had booked some for individual families in our crew. Now he knows. If it rains, all bets are off for the majority of the family. WE are not troopers, and I don't care who bails out (He is usually the first one to drop) If an attraction is down, we may or may not return. There is always something awesome around the bend.
     

    Nancyg56

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Aug 17, 2005
    Totally get this. But in my situation, it would require quite a bit of reworking. If I had known about it in advance, I could have worked it in with no problem. Or I could have decided if it was more important than an ADR without having to start over.

    There is no guest benefit to opening up dining 180 days out. Why not open it up 100 days in advance? Why not open it up when FP window opens?
    I know the answer and most of you do too.
    The guests have decided they want 180 days in advance. When I first started going to WDW the PS (ADR) was at 90 days out. Folks asked for more time, so 180 days out was implemented. A few years later, it went back to 90 days out and there was backlash, so Disney bumped it back to 180 days. Here is the thing, Disney makes changes, so follow park opening times for MK. You booked BOG with the plan to get an early start, however you may need to decide if you want to keep the ADR as your trip draws closer. MK hours change if Disney determines the projected crowd warrants an extra hour. I have seen hours change at the very last minute, so you may need to either keep your ADR or drop in in order to be in step with the opening of the park.
     



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